More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Seera.5916]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Stop assuming owpve content = easy path (requirements) created by the devs. Get it now? Understand?Who cares about “core pillars”? The request was specific in my op... and for a reason... (and for larger reasons than what is stated because... deeper thinking about topics leads to good places and conversations).“Each one has their own path to legendary”... What does that have to do with my op?That last part is meaningless to this topic.

Also, this request is about paths to all legendary gear for all modes.This is what you literally just said. We already have it, thus you're asking for more is clearly a grab at getting it from methods you find easier.

We already have what? I'm failing to see where we have legendary weapon paths in raids, dungeons, fractals, wvw, spvp... Where is the aurora path in raids, dungeons, fractals, wvw, spvp...? Should I go on?

Obviously you are not even bothering to understand this topic. Again with the "Method you find easier" stuff...

And for the record I have a ton of legendary weapons, medium legendary armor and aurora... lets not make it seem like I'm desperate or unable to get gear in this game.

Splitting hairs here because ?

You can get one of each legendary armor from the 3 game modes Anet supports and recognizes. PvE, WvW, and PvP. To split them down to the most elemental forms of dungeon, openworld et all is literally shifting the goalpost.

Nope, this is your inability to understand the request... and you are clearly not even paying attention because you just keep bringing up legendary armor...

Conversations go much smoother when you are engaged in the topic, as opposed to just responding.

I'm sorry but when you explicitly state you want legendaries from all modes and it can be proved to you that you can get them from all modes what more do you want ?

You can get Armor from all 3 modes.Weapons Require all 3 modesBackpieces from all 3 modesTrinkets which are just starting will likely follow the same pattern

So what more do you want ? What else is there to even remotely discuss here outside of you wanting to get the items from a specific playstyle that clearly doesn't fit with the principals of design Anet has setup ?

You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

Maybe if you focus on the fact that raids and open world cater primarily to 2 different types of PvE players rather than trying to make raids into something other than what it is, you'll stop arguing over semantics and actually discuss the issue.

Those who play games for the challenge (these are the raiders) and those who play games for their fun (these are the open world players).

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it.

Yes, because heaven forbid that people should be able to have FUN in games, right?

Because heaven forbid a luxury and prestige item retain those via hard work and dedication, right ?

Also isn't the fun you had along the way making it part of the fun you had in games ?

Lol. There are plenty of ways to introduce challenge into open world content to make legendaries challenging to get without making it super grindy. The fact that some people associate grind with challenge, however, is something I find to be very sad.

But hey, you can defend boring, unnecessary grinding if you like. You can also make assumptions about another player’s dedication if you like, but I’d much rather promote fun in a game. That’s the actual purpose of a game right? To have fun? Because it feels like some elitists want everyone to suffer just so they can feel like special snowflakes carrying around gear hundreds of other players also managed to get. Lol.

[TexZero.7910]

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it.

Yes, because heaven forbid that people should be able to have FUN in games, right?

Because heaven forbid a luxury and prestige item retain those via hard work and dedication, right ?

Also isn't the fun you had along the way making it part of the fun you had in games ?

Lol. There are plenty of ways to introduce challenge into open world content to make legendaries challenging to get without making it super grindy. The fact that some people associate grind with challenge, however, is something I find to be very sad.

But hey, you can defend boring, unnecessary grinding if you like. You can also make assumptions about another player’s dedication if you like, but I’d much rather promote fun in a game. That’s the actual purpose of a game right? To have fun? Because it feels like some elitists want everyone to suffer just so they can feel like special snowflakes carrying around gear hundreds of other players also managed to get. Lol.

I think its funny that everything that involves a modicum of time is now a grind. But maybe that's the old man in me showing its head.I also find it funny that the same people who complain about grinds are typically those that need to find the hottest farms and play that content until they are blue in the face and then complain about said content being changed.

But hey double standards right ?

To date i've yet to see challenging single player content in this game that would remotely allow for people to feel anything close to the level of accomplishment people do when they complete their legendary armor in any mode. So you'll have to forgive me when i state if it's possible for Anet to do it i'll support it but at current they cant, and even if they did we'd be right back here with people complaining that the new single player Legnedaries are too hard for them to get.

[Ohoni.6057]

@TexZero.7910 said:That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.

They goalposts are that open world PvE and raids are two completely different gaming experiences that appeal to two completely different groups of players. I assure you that goalpost is NOT shifting anywhere.

I think its funny that everything that involves a modicum of time is now a grind. But maybe that's the old man in me showing its head.

"Grind" is subjective. Something that takes a long time start to finish is not necessarily grind, but anything where you're repeating the same content over and over just in search of the final result (rather than because you're mostly enjoying that time spent), then it is a grind. Grind is best avoided by giving players multiple options towards pursuing a given goal, so that when one area bores or frustrates them, they can shift to something else while still advancing their chosen goal.

Interesting footnote, that is the definition grind has always had, even back into early console RPGs.

To date i've yet to see challenging single player content in this game that would remotely allow for people to feel anything close to the level of accomplishment people do when they complete their legendary armor in any mode. So you'll have to forgive me when i state if it's possible for Anet to do it i'll support it but at current they cant, and even if they did we'd be right back here with people complaining that the new single player Legnedaries are too hard for them to get.

Then, simple solution here, don't make them too hard to get.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it.

Yes, because heaven forbid that people should be able to have FUN in games, right?

Because heaven forbid a luxury and prestige item retain those via hard work and dedication, right ?

Also isn't the fun you had along the way making it part of the fun you had in games ?

Lol. There are plenty of ways to introduce challenge into open world content to make legendaries challenging to get without making it super grindy. The fact that some people associate grind with challenge, however, is something I find to be very sad.

But hey, you can defend boring, unnecessary grinding if you like. You can also make assumptions about another player’s dedication if you like, but I’d much rather promote fun in a game. That’s the actual purpose of a game right? To have fun? Because it feels like some elitists want everyone to suffer just so they can feel like special snowflakes carrying around gear hundreds of other players also managed to get. Lol.

I think its funny that everything that involves a modicum of time is now a grind. But maybe that's the old man in me showing its head.I also find it funny that the same people who complain about grinds are typically those that need to find the hottest farms and play that content until they are blue in the face and then complain about said content being changed.

But hey double standards right ?

To date i've yet to see challenging single player content in this game that would remotely allow for people to feel anything close to the level of accomplishment people do when they complete their legendary armor in any mode. So you'll have to forgive me when i state if it's possible for Anet to do it i'll support it but at current they cant, and even if they did we'd be right back here with people complaining that the new single player Legnedaries are too hard for them to get.

Perhaps you overlooked the original comment I was replying to, but I'll quote it for clarity.

"@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it."

Note, how Ayrilana doesn't mention challenge anywhere in their comment. They just state it should be a time-gated grind fest to get legendaries in open world. So now, how exactly do you justify that? What they are literally asking for, is for the content to be unnecessarily tedious rather than challenging. I have no problems with challenge (though you seem to make baseless assumptions in that regard). What I do have a problem with is tedium.

As for how to introduce challenge into open world content, well all that takes is a bit of creativity, which is a commodity I'd certainly believe the developers should have. I'll give an example. You can introduce achievements for the collections that add challenge to what might have otherwise been less challenging content. One achievement could involve completing Mark II Golem without being hit by any of its attacks. Another could involve completing a series of certain bounties within a set time limit. Etc and so fourth. Even if the content itself is easy, coming up with creative or unique collection achievements with specific requirements can make it challenging to complete. This is just one example off the top of my head, but if I can think of something so simple in a matter of moments, I'm sure people can come up with even better ideas with a bit more time and though.

In the end, this isn't about taking time to complete content, I have no issue with that. I have completed a few legendaries already, and I haven't complained about having to do things like 100% world completion, or long legendary journeys, or achievements, etc. But the comment I replied to wasn't asking just for time, or challenge, they were literally asking for it to be a grind-fest. If you want people to feel a sense of accomplishment, I can assure you that it won't come from simply grinding content, that comes from overcoming challenge.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:What they are literally asking for, is for the content to be unnecessarily tedious rather than challenging.

Why not both?

I mean, you can have one path that is challenging and relatively grind-free, and another that is less challenging and more grindy, for people that can't manage the more challenging route. Think of it like a mountain with multiple trails. One is a vertical cliff, one is a very steep switchback with some boulders to mount. Another is a more winding path with a relatively shallow grade. Let players choose the path that best suits their tastes.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:What they are literally asking for, is for the content to be unnecessarily tedious rather than challenging.

Why not both?

I mean, you can have one path that is challenging and relatively grind-free, and another that is less challenging and more grindy, for people that can't manage the more challenging route. Think of it like a mountain with multiple trails. One is a vertical cliff, one is a very steep switchback with some boulders to mount. Another is a more winding path with a relatively shallow grade. Let players choose the path that best suits their tastes.

You could have both, certainly. But I wouldn't want the grindy route to be the only option. Nor do I understand why some people think it is a necessity in order to prove you worked for something in a game. Lol. I mean, I work in real life, why do I need to feel like I am working in a game?

There seems to be this strange expectation for MMO's in particular, that certain types of gear should require vast amounts of time grinding to acquire, time that not all players can allocate liberally because of their own real life circumstances. Not everyone can play many hours a day, that's why I'd personally prefer the acquirement of legendaries to be associated with challenge, rather than just vast amounts of grinding. And when I say challenge, I don't expect a super challenge wall that alienates a majority of the player-base, but just an adequate challenge that makes the journey for acquiring a legendary more fun, while still requiring at least some mastery of the game's mechanics.

Still, I certainly wouldn't mind both routes existing for those who prefer the alternative.

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

[STIHL.2489]

@Seera.5916 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:If people support selling raids (and thus legendary armor) for gold, they may as well sell the Armor in the Gem shop, since I can buy gems with gold as well.

There's already, unfortunately, a precedent for that. It's called generation 1 legendary weapons.

When ANet removes the ability to buy and sell legendary weapons via the trading post is when I'll advocate for making the legendary armor require actual participation in the raid in order to get it.

kow about we save time and remove the raid req, and everyone is happy.

What about the people who want raids to have their own legendary armor? That won't make them happy.

Let's not speak for everyone.

Sure it will, it will save them all this drama.

Most people don't go to the forums. Most people are already saved from the drama. So the portion of raiders who want legendary armor to be earnable via raids will not be happy.

Let's not speak for everyone.

They would still be able to get legendary armor, because if you can raid, you can do anything else in this game, there is no reason for them to be unhappy, or even want the raid req ro start with, unless they want to deny others the armor, and those who just want to deny others their fun... well the game is better off without them.

[STIHL.2489]

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

Technically, WvW has a large portion of PvE elements, so it's a hybrid mode of play, as opposed to the direct PvP style of play of sPvP. They are distinctly very different modes.

[Shirlias.8104]

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

No please.This is something which cannot be read.

At least i could approve that since SPvP is s_hit, then WvW and SPvP are similar.

[Astralporing.1957]

@zoomborg.9462 said:The simple and indisputable fact is that Raids are as much PvE as open world is or fractals or dungeons. Anything that pits u against AI enemies is by definition PvE. It doesn't matter how many people play each mode or how they engage it. It's all PvE with the only difference being the difficulty. I dont know how u come up with the crap you're writing, its kinda amusing.

Sure, but then SPvP and WvW are both PvP. It doesn't matter how many people play each mode and how they engage it. And yet they are being considered to be different gamemodes.Saying that something is acquirable in raids, and thus is acquirable in PvE is the same as saying that a WvW player should be satisfied that something is obtainable in SPvP.

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

Legendaries should never be handouts, it makes them non-legendary. And asking for "open world legendaries" is literally asking for handouts. So no. And IMO legendaries should have components from all aspects of the game more so than they have now: you want the shiniest shiny? then put yourself out there and pass the gauntlet!

[Ohoni.6057]

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:You could have both, certainly. But I wouldn't want the grindy route to be the only option.

I don't think there's anyone who does.

@STIHL.2489 said:Technically, WvW has a large portion of PvE elements, so it's a hybrid mode of play, as opposed to the direct PvP style of play of sPvP. They are distinctly very different modes.

Technically sPvP has PvE in it too, several maps have NPCs to kill that can shift the balance of play, or in some cases destructible terrain, which is player vs "environment" in a sense. While Stronghold never took off, that was primarily PvE, but in a competitive manner. You could completely ignore the other team the entire match.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it.

Yes, because heaven forbid that people should be able to have FUN in games, right?

Because heaven forbid a luxury and prestige item retain those via hard work and dedication, right ?

Also isn't the fun you had along the way making it part of the fun you had in games ?

Lol. There are plenty of ways to introduce challenge into open world content to make legendaries challenging to get without making it super grindy. The fact that some people associate grind with challenge, however, is something I find to be very sad.

But hey, you can defend boring, unnecessary grinding if you like. You can also make assumptions about another player’s dedication if you like, but I’d much rather promote fun in a game. That’s the actual purpose of a game right? To have fun? Because it feels like some elitists want everyone to suffer just so they can feel like special snowflakes carrying around gear hundreds of other players also managed to get. Lol.

I think its funny that everything that involves a modicum of time is now a grind. But maybe that's the old man in me showing its head.I also find it funny that the same people who complain about grinds are typically those that need to find the hottest farms and play that content until they are blue in the face and then complain about said content being changed.

But hey double standards right ?

To date i've yet to see challenging single player content in this game that would remotely allow for people to feel anything close to the level of accomplishment people do when they complete their legendary armor in any mode. So you'll have to forgive me when i state if it's possible for Anet to do it i'll support it but at current they cant, and even if they did we'd be right back here with people complaining that the new single player Legnedaries are too hard for them to get.

Perhaps you overlooked the original comment I was replying to, but I'll quote it for clarity.

"@Ayrilana.1396 said:If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it."

Note, how Ayrilana doesn't mention challenge anywhere in their comment. They just state it should be a time-gated grind fest to get legendaries in open world. So now, how exactly do you justify that? What they are literally asking for, is for the content to be unnecessarily tedious rather than challenging. I have no problems with challenge (though you seem to make baseless assumptions in that regard). What I do have a problem with is tedium.

As for how to introduce challenge into open world content, well all that takes is a bit of creativity, which is a commodity I'd certainly believe the developers should have. I'll give an example. You can introduce achievements for the collections that add challenge to what might have otherwise been less challenging content. One achievement could involve completing Mark II Golem without being hit by any of its attacks. Another could involve completing a series of certain bounties within a set time limit. Etc and so fourth. Even if the content itself is easy, coming up with creative or unique collection achievements with specific requirements can make it challenging to complete. This is just one example off the top of my head, but if I can think of something so simple in a matter of moments, I'm sure people can come up with even better ideas with a bit more time and though.

In the end, this isn't about taking time to complete content, I have no issue with that. I have completed a few legendaries already, and I haven't complained about having to do things like 100% world completion, or long legendary journeys, or achievements, etc. But the comment I replied to wasn't asking just for time, or challenge, they were literally asking for it to be a grind-fest. If you want people to feel a sense of accomplishment, I can assure you that it won't come from simply grinding content, that comes from overcoming challenge.

The point I was making in that post you referenced was that if legendary armor was made to be obtainable in open world PvE, it should require the same time and commitment as in raids. Due to the inherent nature of PvE, this would only end up in it to be time-gated and grindy. You can’t really add personal challenges in open world PvE.

[TexZero.7910]

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

I can enter WvW and get legendary armor from it without once engaging an enemy player. Only attacking AI....Sounds like it has PvE elements to me which makes it a unique mode of play that is both PvP and PvE that has a unique objective thus creating its own mode of play. But hey do i know, it's not like WvW isn't just RvR by another name, which also had elements of PvE in it.

But quick quick tell the purist out there that is solely a PvP experience.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

I can enter WvW and get legendary armor from it without once engaging an enemy player. Only attacking AI....Sounds like it has PvE elements to me which makes it a unique mode of play that is both PvP and PvE that has a unique objective thus creating its own mode of play. But hey do i know, it's not like WvW isn't just RvR by another name, which also had elements of PvE in it.

But quick quick tell the purist out there that is solely a PvP experience.

Don't forget those broken walls... I might have to actually PvP to get more supply.

[STIHL.2489]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:You could have both, certainly. But I wouldn't want the grindy route to be the only option.

I don't think there's anyone who does.

@STIHL.2489 said:Technically, WvW has a large portion of PvE elements, so it's a hybrid mode of play, as opposed to the direct PvP style of play of sPvP. They are distinctly very different modes.

Technically sPvP has PvE in it too, several maps have NPCs to kill that can shift the balance of play, or in some cases destructible terrain, which is player vs "environment" in a sense. While Stronghold never took off, that was

primarily

PvE, but in a competitive manner. You could completely ignore the other team the entire match.

strongholds sucks and should not be talked about

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

I can enter WvW and get legendary armor from it without once engaging an enemy player. Only attacking AI....Sounds like it has PvE elements to me which makes it a unique mode of play that is both PvP and PvE that has a unique objective thus creating its own mode of play. But hey do i know, it's not like WvW isn't just RvR by another name, which also had elements of PvE in it.

But quick quick tell the purist out there that is solely a PvP experience.I can admit Raids are part of PvE, but you will go all ends to try and never admit your wrong.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode

where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map. In World versus World, players can besiege objectives such as Keeps and Towers with siege weapons, and battle over resources, to win rewards for their world and World Experience for themselves.

[TexZero.7910]

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@UnDeadFun.5824 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

That's because raids are PvE any effort to deny that is absurd and shifting the goalpost.Here's a friendly wiki link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Now please try and argue that Raids are not scripted encounters against ai controlled entities also frequently refereed to as mobs.

Just like you continue to state that WvW and sPvP are two separate game modes. WvW is PvP.

I can enter WvW and get legendary armor from it without once engaging an enemy player. Only attacking AI....Sounds like it has PvE elements to me which makes it a unique mode of play that is both PvP and PvE that has a unique objective thus creating its own mode of play. But hey do i know, it's not like WvW isn't just RvR by another name, which also had elements of PvE in it.

But quick quick tell the purist out there that is solely a PvP experience.I can admit Raids are part of PvE, but you will go all ends to try and never admit your wrong.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode

where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map. In World versus World, players can besiege objectives such as Keeps and Towers with siege weapons, and battle over resources, to win rewards for their world and World Experience for themselves.

I never said it wasn't PvP. I said it wasn't solely PvP. It's a hybrid game mode that has both PvE and PvP elements.

[Rysdude.3824]

@Seera.5916 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

[Seera.5916]

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

[STIHL.2489]

@Seera.5916 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

Meh by that logic, there is no reason to put the armor behind the raid to start with.

[Sarrs.4831]

Different skins? Fine. Good, even.Same skins? No. Envoy armor is for HoT raids.

[Seera.5916]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

Meh by that logic, there is no reason to put the armor behind the raid to start with.

Yes there is. Raids given their difficulty, deserve a fitting reward. An exclusive skin is quite fitting for raids. And highest difficulty content should give the highest rarity items as rewards. Hence the rarity level of Legendary.

And you can get legendary armor without raiding, it just won't have the same skin.

And no, I'm not saying that legendary armor shouldn't be added to other aspects of the game. Just that it's quite deserving to have a set that is designed to be earned by those who raid.