My two cents on Wizard's Vault

[costepj.5120]

It's almost as if they want you to buy the latest expansion.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Let's consider this.  Under the old daily system, how do you get heavy crafting bags?  You primarily exchanged laurels for them.

Under the old system, each 28-day cycle offered 35 laurels.  You could get another 20 but had to give up Ascended or Legendary materials to get them.  So, over 84 days you could get between 105 and 165 laurels.  Those got you 105-165 heavy bags.  In addition, you got a couple of bags of crafting mats, with a small chance for T6 items (~1-3% each, with less than a 20% chance of getting one.  Still, say you were consistently lucky and got an extra 2 per 28 days cycle.  So, 107-167.

With the Vault, you can get 150 laurels per 90 days, so 150 heavy bags via laurels.  Given the opportunity cost for the extra 60 laurels under the old system, I feel comfortable saying that access to heavy bags is roughly comparable without the heavy bags gated by SotO purchase.

Caveat: yes, there is an opportunity cost for use of laurels for T6 mats, but that would be the same for the Vault or the old login rewards.

[Sylvyn.4750]

So 10% less than the old system, and where are the black lion keys and salvage kits we used to get for free?  Ah yes, also behind a paywall...

[IndigoSundown.5419]

20 minutes ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

So 10% less than the old system, and where are the black lion keys and salvage kits we used to get for free?  Ah yes, also behind a paywall...

Actually, the difference in heavy bags ranges (Vault to Login) from ~11% less to ~40% more -- all based on choosing laurels from the Chest of Loyalty or not.  BL Keys? Ommv, but over the years that the login rewards were part of the game I can count on one hand how many I got.  I did get a ton of BL Salvage Kits, enough that I will never need any more.

If you're going to be bitter about things ANet did, go right ahead.  On some things, I might agree.  However, I'm having a hard time accepting that getting various virtual fluff for free is any kind of a big deal.  If you were me, you'd save the bitter for stuff like a lack of decent content, poor balance decisions, partial removal of counter-play  in WvW and the lack of value for money in expansions.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

variety of crafting material tiers in their daily login rewards

And the fact that you actually have to play the game -even if barely- for the rewards is one of the good sides of the new system.

[Sylvyn.4750]

22 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And the fact that you actually have to play the game -even if barely- for the rewards is one of the good sides of the new system.

Not arguing that...I can still manage well enough on my alt accounts too...

[Sylvyn.4750]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:40 PM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Actually, the difference in heavy bags ranges (Vault to Login) from ~11% less to ~40% more -- all based on choosing laurels from the Chest of Loyalty or not.  BL Keys? Ommv, but over the years that the login rewards were part of the game I can count on one hand how many I got.  I did get a ton of BL Salvage Kits, enough that I will never need any more.

If you're going to be bitter about things ANet did, go right ahead.  On some things, I might agree.  However, I'm having a hard time accepting that getting various virtual fluff for free is any kind of a big deal.  If you were me, you'd save the bitter for stuff like a lack of decent content, poor balance decisions, partial removal of counter-play  in WvW and the lack of value for money in expansions.

My point was coming more from the player that doesn't have the latest expansion, so they are limited to the laurels as they do not get the heavy material bags.  As for the Salvage Kits, which cost 300 gems or about 100 gold in the shop, that will be a bummer when mine run out.  Also, it will have a trickle-down effect on the price of globs of ecto as BL Salvage Kits have a higher chance of producing them than the master/mystic kits.  I'm not bitter...just pointing out that it was a big enough change that it's hard to see equivalencies, especially for those that don't own SoTO.  Yes, all the other concerns you mentioned are valid...lately WvW has been a lag fest, maybe indirectly related to the increase in player count and all the other instances created by the Mad King activities.

[Gazrul.3086]

I like the new system. I've already bought everything from the vault, and am now getting a nice, steady gold income from those 30AA gold bags. 🙂

[IndigoSundown.5419]

12 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

My point was coming more from the player that doesn't have the latest expansion, so they are limited to the laurels as they do not get the heavy material bags.  As for the Salvage Kits, which cost 300 gems or about 100 gold in the shop, that will be a bummer when mine run out.  Also, it will have a trickle-down effect on the price of globs of ecto as BL Salvage Kits have a higher chance of producing them than the master/mystic kits.  I'm not bitter...just pointing out that it was a big enough change that it's hard to see equivalencies, especially for those that don't own SoTO.  Yes, all the other concerns you mentioned are valid...lately WvW has been a lag fest, maybe indirectly related to the increase in player count and all the other instances created by the Mad King activities.

Maybe there will be changes when the Vault resets (e.g. add a chest of BL Goods).  Meanwhile, I guess I can console myself with the idea that my SotO purchase at least got me access to more heavy bags in addition to the specialization weapon and strike access. 😆

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:01 AM, Sylvyn.4750 said:

So 10% less than the old system, and where are the black lion keys and salvage kits we used to get for free?  Ah yes, also behind a paywall...

People tend to forget that free accounts didn't have access to the daily login system either, but I don't recall people being annoyed by that that much. Anything to complain about WV?

[Sylvyn.4750]

16 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

People tend to forget that free accounts didn't have access to the daily login system either, but I don't recall people being annoyed by that that much. Anything to complain about WV?

I wouldn't know, since I don't own any free accounts...

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

I wouldn't know, since I don't own any free accounts...

And yet you still complain it's hidden behind a paywall without making sure to check if it's any different in that aspect. As I said. Anything to complain about when it comes to WV.

[Sylvyn.4750]

22 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

And yet you still complain it's hidden behind a paywall without making sure to check if it's any different in that aspect. As I said. Anything to complain about when it comes to WV.

So we now have a 3-tiered caste system as it applies to the vault, where before it was a binary system?

[evilcat.6817]

Some high value feedback:

In the next season of WV rewards some items could be removed, and some pricing is ridiculous.

Essence of Gold - waste of dev  time, if someone needs gold 30gold bags are better, if someone has everything else, then essence of gold is useless. They probably have enought gold already.

Overpriced Large bags - 40AP? Is this some form of insult to ppl who hasnt bought SotO? Generally it is better to buy generic bag of gold and buy all missed materials from TP. I am all for bags of resources from WV, however it would be better to have more bags, but with lower AP price but limited supply per account. So 90 bags, but fro 10AP or something like that.

You could also add T3 or T4 bags to WV for resonable price with some limit, since this resources are in activity limbo, there is no more new characters to run it, but it is too low for endgame, so not many ppl run it.

Edited October 25, 2023 by evilcat.6817

[Cernoch.8524]

2 hours ago, evilcat.6817 said:

Some high value feedback:

In the next season of WV rewards some items could be removed, and some pricing is ridiculous.

Essence of Gold - waste of dev  time, if someone needs gold 30gold bags are better, if someone has everything else, then essence of gold is useless. They probably have enought gold already.

Overpriced Large bags - 40AP? Is this some form of insult to ppl who hasnt bought SotO? Generally it is better to buy generic bag of gold and buy all missed materials from TP. I am all for bags of resources from WV, however it would be better to have more bags, but with lower AP price but limited supply per account. So 90 bags, but fro 10AP or something like that.

Yes, I do not know who decided to put T5 bags there for this price, especially if you have unlimited golds for 30 AA....people can still do easy math like this. They would have to cost 6-7AA to have same value as 30AA gold.

Essence of Gold will make those golds back in few years if you play every day and kill a lot of mobs, not worth it for most players but you know, people like account upgrades. No dev time wasted cause item already existed :D. 

I would like some addictions and price changes too, some prices are ridiculous. 
Add spirit shards, bl keys, mystic forge stones maybe?, supreme runes for bags, or maybe even 20 slot or bigger bags, bl keys, now they can even add box with relics or something like that.

[Solvar.7953]

I suspect the essence of gold was put in because it is something that was in the monthly rotation before (you get it when you completed the month cycle, IIRC).

The problem is that it is really hard to see how much effect it has - it is not like it increases your gold gain by that amount - it only increases direct gold drops by that amount.  So if you do a lot of fractals, where you get fractal junk that sells for good money to the vendor, essence of gold makes no difference there.  Or if you sell other items to vendors, on TP, etc.  Likewise, if you get the gold from a container, it doesn't affect it.

I suppose someone could do an analysis - record how much gold they have, do a bunch of content, making sure not to spend gold in anyway (waypoints, infinite salvage tools, etc) or make gold in any way by selling stuff, and seeing how much their gold increased over some amount of playtime to get an idea of how much direct gold actually drops.

I actually bought one essence of gold, but that is more for OCD - I noticed that my gold gain was 199%, so I decided to buy one so it is nice even 200%.  I knew it wasn't worth it.

 

[Vayne.8563]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Let's consider this.  Under the old daily system, how do you get heavy crafting bags?  You primarily exchanged laurels for them.

Under the old system, each 28-day cycle offered 35 laurels.  You could get another 20 but had to give up Ascended or Legendary materials to get them.  So, over 84 days you could get between 105 and 165 laurels.  Those got you 105-165 heavy bags.  In addition, you got a couple of bags of crafting mats, with a small chance for T6 items (~1-3% each, with less than a 20% chance of getting one.  Still, say you were consistently lucky and got an extra 2 per 28 days cycle.  So, 107-167.

With the Vault, you can get 150 laurels per 90 days, so 150 heavy bags via laurels.  Given the opportunity cost for the extra 60 laurels under the old system, I feel comfortable saying that access to heavy bags is roughly comparable without the heavy bags gated by SotO purchase.

Caveat: yes, there is an opportunity cost for use of laurels for T6 mats, but that would be the same for the Vault or the old login rewards.

You get more than 150 in the 90 days, beause you get 10 laurels a week for finishing your weekly, which is an extra 40 a month. I honestly have no idea how people complain about this change tbh.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

45 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You get more than 150 in the 90 days, beause you get 10 laurels a week for finishing your weekly, which is an extra 40 a month. I honestly have no idea how people complain about this change tbh.

People complain mostly because it's different and they don't bother checking if it's better or not.

[Danikat.8537]

11 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I suspect the essence of gold was put in because it is something that was in the monthly rotation before (you get it when you completed the month cycle, IIRC).

The problem is that it is really hard to see how much effect it has - it is not like it increases your gold gain by that amount - it only increases direct gold drops by that amount.  So if you do a lot of fractals, where you get fractal junk that sells for good money to the vendor, essence of gold makes no difference there.  Or if you sell other items to vendors, on TP, etc.  Likewise, if you get the gold from a container, it doesn't affect it.

I suppose someone could do an analysis - record how much gold they have, do a bunch of content, making sure not to spend gold in anyway (waypoints, infinite salvage tools, etc) or make gold in any way by selling stuff, and seeing how much their gold increased over some amount of playtime to get an idea of how much direct gold actually drops.

I actually bought one essence of gold, but that is more for OCD - I noticed that my gold gain was 199%, so I decided to buy one so it is nice even 200%.  I knew it wasn't worth it.

 

I agree. I suspect they put it in because they knew if they didn't there would be complaints that it was impossible to get and gave old accounts a permanent advantage that new players could never achieve.

Or maybe from Anet's perspective - looking at the data in a different way - it is worthwhile. Maybe if you tracked exactly how much gold 2 accounts get via direct drops it would make a significant difference, but players don't notice because there's no sensible way for us to track gold gained via direct drops (you'd have to either avoid gaining gold by any other method for the whole recording period, or write down the amounts each time you get gold directly and then add it up), whereas Anet can probably get that data automatically because the game logs all kinds of things.

[Tukaram.8256]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:28 PM, Chronardis.4028 said:

I like the new system. I've already bought everything from the vault, and am now getting a nice, steady gold income from those 30AA gold bags. 🙂

Yep, I am really enjoying the new system.  I am also down to buying the 30aa gold... I preferred the 6aa gold, of course, but free gold is still free. 😎

[Pomdepin.7068]

1) I agree activities in this daily / weekly should bring more diversity in things to do. Maybe list some bigger longer ones (metas and such) which would count double for example (as JP for past Skritt burglar event). I'd like to go back more to some maps, including LW maps.

2) I didn't even know that since I own SotO. But I agree it doesn't make much sense.

[kharmin.7683]

I don't think that Anet would put daily events on LW maps because not every player would have access to them?

[Tukaram.8256]

32 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I don't think that Anet would put daily events on LW maps because not every player would have access to them?

Why not?  They put daily events in Cantha, HoT, PoF, SotO... not everyone has those either.

[kharmin.7683]

9 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

Why not?  They put daily events in Cantha, HoT, PoF, SotO... not everyone has those either.

Those are paid expansions.  LW maps were additional content not included with the paid expansions.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

Why not?  They put daily events in Cantha, HoT, PoF, SotO... not everyone has those either.

Dailies in expansion zones or dailies involving content from certain expansions only appear if you own the required expansions, has been like that in the previous system as well.