Weird thought on the origin of Charr

[Doom Wolf.7953]

So, just looking at charr anatomy, with the double ear and the double horns, has anyone thought that they might be a magically created race? A precursor to jade constructs maybe? I mean a jungle stalker plus a dolyak would give you a charr using some chimera magic. Who knows what the ancient races got up too? Just a thought experiment, please discuss 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

While not outside the realm of possibility when you got animals like the platypus... would it really be that weird for the charr to be a naturally evolved species?

[maxwelgm.4315]

In between Wind Riders, Phoenixes, many cases of gigantism (turtles, tigers, sharks, bears, etc etc etc.) and Tengu, it makes the most sense in fact that Charr have evolved naturally alongside these other races. They just kind of started using tools and had enough leeway to dominate their environment, not unlike humans.

[Void.8921]

This is exactly the type of post I love-

I have a silly theory that perhaps they used to have two ears, and due to how evolution is just kinda “eh good enough I guess”, the ears split up leaving them with four ears. Now since they’re awful at hearing anything between low- and high- frequencies, it probably just… Wasn’t that bad to not have this ability (if they even had it in the first place). Since it wasn’t bad enough to kill them off, it stayed.

 

With the horns, we don’t to my knowledge know that much about how or why they have them. I mean, it’s not like they use them like antlers, or even horns on bovines. We don’t even really know how they grow (are they hollow? Do they have nerves? Do they bleed? Etc.) (This is not to say any trait has to be useful of course, but you’d think they’d do something with smth like horns ig??)

Hell, I mean, even humans in our own world can get horn-like growths (due to different causes, it’s not usually a sign of health lol)

But you do bring up an excellent point: The other felines we see don’t have horns. It’s a really unique trait to only appear in charr. Which is why I think it’s totally possible that you’re right. I mean, hell, they’re not really known for keeping great records, so no doubt that they would’ve lost that in a few generations (I mean, ask them the name of the Khan-Ur…)

To me either option is entirely possible, I mean, evolution isn’t a clear A to Z. It’s just kinda… “huh, well, it hasn’t killed off that species yet, so ig it works”.

Another option, which is a mix of A and B: Magic-influenced. Is it possible that raw magic could straight up make some species more likely to mutate? I mean you bring up a pretty good example with the Dolyak here 😛
 

Important note: Flame Legion charr seem more likely to have more horns not just on their skulls, but on other parts of their bodies as well.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Void.8921

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

the charr are often said to be feline, but in truth they're a hybrid of bovine and feline. the males also seem to have more bovine traits while the females seem to have more feline traits, although there are exceptions to this imaginary rule.

[Narcemus.1348]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:18 AM, Void.8921 said:

Another option, which is a mix of A and B: Magic-influenced. Is it possible that raw magic could straight up make some species more likely to mutate? I mean you bring up a pretty good example with the Dolyak here 

😛

I've always assumed that magic had a lot to do with the races we see in Tyria. I mean we have extinction level events every 10k years and yet by the time dragons awaken we have civilizations to kill. From a real world perspective that isn't realistic, but in a magical world...

[Ashantara.8731]

Charr could be a magically created race. The fact alone that - in spite of their comically long arms and gigantic necks - they don't fall over when they stand on their feet is truly puzzling, when most of their body-weight is accumulated from the chest upward. 😄

Edited October 22, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Lord Korag.8439]

I presume they naturally evolved. Many consider them just as felines, however, I see them somewhere between cat and cow (tail, horns, neck). So I assume they evolved from some kind of ruminant into more predaturous species, trading hoofs for claws and sharping teeth. Originally still using all four legs, in the later evolution they started walking on the back limbs, so they could use tools with the front ones. That is a very recent developement, as the charr still tend to run on all four when given the chance.

[starhunter.6015]

Feline + Minotaur = Charr. 

[Biziut.3594]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't magic created and given to humans by Abaddon? And charr were on Tyria long before humans arrived. If so than there would be no magic that could something like that.

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't magic created and given to humans by Abaddon? And charr were on Tyria long before humans arrived. If so than there would be no magic that could something like that.

Magic has existed on Tyria since the beginning. It's why the Dragons existed. The humans are one of the last races to inhabit the world too. They are predated by other races who could wield magic like the Dwarves, the Mursaat, the Seers, the Jotun, the Kodan. I would think it possible The Seers and Mursaat might be capable of magically creating or evolving a race.

The Charr certainly predate humans though, but I don't think the theory being presented in this thread is anything more than fun theorycrafting

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't magic created and given to humans by Abaddon? And charr were on Tyria long before humans arrived. If so than there would be no magic that could something like that.

That was, apparently, human misunderstanding of events as dictated by Arah explorable mode. The truth is that magic always existed as it's the lifeblood of the planet, and when humans arrived it was at such a low state (due to the Elder Dragons om noming it all) that they believed the Six to be the ones who created it when Abaddon released magic out of the Seer-made Six-obtained original Bloodstone.

[Biziut.3594]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 @Randulf.7614 Thanks for enlightening me. Guess this theory is as good as any than. ^^

[Charr Guardian.1497]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:41 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

the charr are often said to be feline, but in truth they're a hybrid of bovine and feline. the males also seem to have more bovine traits while the females seem to have more feline traits, although there are exceptions to this imaginary rule.

Other than horn styles, how are they "in truth bovine and feline"?

There's no statements on them having anything partly bovine from dev interviews nor official lore sources. If you do an analysis of their craniums from the shape of their heads, they do match cat craniums (sometimes following different cat archetypes); bull/cow craniums have a different shape, and they are longer. Goat skulls are also longer and thinner than cat skulls.

The rest of their anatomy obviously has things in common with every mammal since that is what they are. The proportions of their upper bodies, particularly the arms and back (more easily noticeable in the males), are explained by them being quadrupedal and large felines. Tigers in particular have a lot of bulk muscle mass on the front limbs (especially in proportion to their rear quarters), as you can see in this picture: https://nws.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/content/5A33D1474A94741A998AA72B8C722C9B/875-2048.webp

Take a close look at their shapes where the hip attaches to the thighs and compare it to a big cat; while not an exact match, it is a closer match for cats (that are a lot more lean towards their rear), than for bulls/cows (that are more bulky).

The design concept for them was "cat people from hell". This is the primary reason why they have horns: common cultural depictions of demons/satan/hellish creatures normally include horns. If you want to delve into the reasoning behind this, then that would lead you to paganism and also to Pan as one of the influences. Having said this, Pan is represented as being part-goat. And if you take a look at charr horns, they are indeed modeled after bulky, functional fighting horns often seen in various bovines; this is because we know to associate bulky fighting horns to the fighting ability of the animals who carry them, and the intrinsic intimidatory association which is desirable for the theme. The thing is, while the rear limb articulations of a goat are more alike to those of a cat than to those of a human, the anatomical proportions of a goat, ram or bull's rear limbs are definitely not the same as those of a cat.

One might also point out the ears as being bovine but this has more to do with what would make for desirable ear shapes for a specific positioning on a skull type that uses some of that space for horns (as these are not "top-mounted ears" as you see in cats), than with bovine-specific traits.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Charr Guardian.1497

[deatine.2498]

Charr design seems influenced by more than cats and cows. Their shape reminds me of a gorilla (especially with how they move their hindlegs between their forelegs, different from most other mammals) and they have bear claws. 

We haven't really seen other creatures that looks related to charr or could be an anchestor, but keep in mind that we have not seen most of the planet yet. That includes the regions charr originally came from. 

The closest other creature to "cat with horns" we have in the game are Juveline Cheetahs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Cheetah aka Aqua Stalkers https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aqua_Stalker

Edited January 21 by deatine.2498

[SoulGuardian.6203]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:41 AM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

the charr are often said to be feline, but in truth they're a hybrid of bovine and feline. the males also seem to have more bovine traits while the females seem to have more feline traits, although there are exceptions to this imaginary rule.

You forgot canine too.

Look at Pyre Fierceshot, and Rytlock Brimstone , for instance.

They are definitely canine. 

Anyways, I think O.P. has a pretty good point there.

The Charr definitely look like an hybrid race born out of magic experiments. 

But possibilities are vast.

They could well be from a different continent, planet, time, or dimension. 

Charr homelands, or Dalada Uplands, way back in GW1 only showed very tiny specs of evolution within the charr race.

Camps, towers made of wood, and little else, apparently even after centuries of occupation in those lands.

So, even though I'm not discarding evolution entirely, seems highly unlikely they're a 100% natural race.

The asura were way more advanced than the charr already back in the day.

Seems to me the charr were created purposely just for battle.

Which leads me to the point that you made about the horns. 

They most likely are there to protect their skulls from damage.

The double ears might be because of the point someone did about them not hearing very well.

But again, it might be a side effect of the hybrid crossbreed.

There are probably more than two races in the mix, and I think all suggesting that bovine might be in the cocktail of DNA might be right too.

So it would be Feline, Canine, and Bovine in there too.

 

By the way:

Magic did exist in tyria since the beggining. 

The desert forgotten, a very ancient, if not one of the very first races, already used magic.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten

Think you might want to read through this:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

Also ancient desert ghosts, Seer, and Mursaat.

Edited February 5 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

By the way:

Magic did exist in tyria since the beggining. 

The desert forgotten, a very ancient, if not one of the very first races, already used magic.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten

Think you might want to read through this:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

Also ancient desert ghosts, Seer, and Mursaat.

While you're not wrong that magic has existed in Tyria since the beginning, the Forgotten are not from Tyria. Nor are Mursaat. They are as alien to the planet as humans are.

Those ancient desert ghosts are humans from ~200 years before GW1, for the most part, btw.

Seers are still native to Tyria as far as we know, but the planet existed for dozens of thousands of years before their civilization did. At least two dragonrises are known to have occurred before the Seer civilization existed according to Jotun myth.

Edited February 5 by Konig Des Todes.2086