Wvw Devs, have yall ran out of ideas 💡?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Since Desert map has been brought up...

Iirc, when players reacted negatively to the DBL, the devs conducted a vote as to whether the DBL should be eliminated.  In setting up the vote, they said that if the players voted to can DBL, they would never produce another new map for WvW.  Keeping DBL narrowly passed, again iirc.  But, there hasn't been another new map since?  Is that our fault?

[XenesisII.1540]

29 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

May have to see if the forum archives go back to the EotM design discussion days or if it was the forum version before that one. I want to say it was something along the lines of the towers being a barrier but not a direct threat to the keeps like we have on ABL.

Edit: Xen, wow ok that's a crazy rabbit whole in the archives lol. Will have to look at that not while working. Found some of the polling threads from 2016 but ANet was using a feedback site at the time for the polls.

Here's two rabbit holes to dive into, Tyler did most of the poll discussions, McKenna took over wvw development after to finish up skirmish mode into 2017

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Tyler-Bearce-3427/showposts

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/McKenna-Berdrow-2759/showposts

 

[Dawdler.8521]

Quote

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

- Tyler Bearce 

And my first post after this:

Quote

The most facepalm vote ever. This is just kittened. First Anet set’s a ridiculously high 75% requirement and then they have four options essentially making it impossible get that. But when we do get 70% in favor… then it’s like no lol you still get what the minority want.

This was a kittening trap orchestrated by Anet, plain and simple.

I hope everyone that voted no are happy with kittening up the community and still get 3 months of a map they dislike.

We're lucky Anet did not follow the stupid votes.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And my first post after this:

We're lucky Anet did not follow the stupid votes.

I do appreciate that Tyler would post out ideas information and ask for feedback that would lead to some back and fourth but also leads to discussions. 

[RisingDawn.5796]

4 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Since Desert map has been brought up...

Iirc, when players reacted negatively to the DBL, the devs conducted a vote as to whether the DBL should be eliminated.  In setting up the vote, they said that if the players voted to can DBL, they would never produce another new map for WvW.  Keeping DBL narrowly passed, again iirc.  But, there hasn't been another new map since?  Is that our fault?

The Desert Borderlands was a rushed out map, even after it had a beta though.

The laser event completely lagged the map out and it had other design flaws, yet they replaced all the alpines with it, before fully testing and listening to feedback.

Edited October 23, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Here's two rabbit holes to dive into, Tyler did most of the poll discussions, McKenna took over wvw development after to finish up skirmish mode into 2017

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Tyler-Bearce-3427/showposts

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/McKenna-Berdrow-2759/showposts

 

Looking at these there were a number of ideas and then when polled to do or not to do and the poll came back as no probably didn't help in acquiring resources for more projects.

Did find the keep or remove DBL that came up after the mixed map one didn't pass. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-14-June-Desert-Borderlands-Closed/page/4

That lead to another poll of mixed versus rotating 3 on/off that then setup the three maps into play. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-27-June-Simultaneous-Borderlands/page/3

 

[Woof.8246]

a) What about we create a progression system for new players (check achiv).

As fresh people stroll through the woods , they can smell the iron from the bloodsoaked enemies (see the enemy on minimap and have an "!" icon) and they have a "croutch-stealth ability" like ESO to escape .

Or they choose 1/8 of their screen and they get perma invisbile . If the enemy have also choose that same piece he can see the new player  through that spot . As the time goes on , the new player must choose another "screen pie" . Ultimately after 2 week , he is fully transparent and neither this or ESO mechanics works.

The goal of the new player is to find low life mobs and become them , that allow him to beat bigger mobs that have a weakness to it . If in the meanwhile he can capture a camp or follow the commander . Facing real opponents as "animal" he sees their attack pattern . After 2 months the "animal form" have a chance to break on DAMAGE THAT HE DEALT , and even more as the character gets older (better reroll a fresh character. But after 3 characters the RNG to break  will be too high and perma for this account)

 

b) I am  guessing that  taking the WvW and splitting them into parts and randomize them , with "fog-unexpored areas" to "keep fresh things" and extra thick fog to hide the  edges to cover some silliness that might occur is not fisable ? Each WvW part is categorized as "as jicksaw puzzle"and basted on the areas you  go in or out , we create placibo new WvW parts that connect those 1,3 ,6, 9 , 12 spots (which are live WvW parts ) ?

                            1         ----             placibo  asset            -----         3

                      placibo                   ------             6                 ---------    placibo

                           9            -------                       placibo           ------         12

 

c) Could you drag and drop huge letters when you open  the "map-"M"" ?

Like Placing an "R" on the map that covers 3 square-areas  and dropping some pods   . When you walk throught the map and activate those pods , so you  you activate the "rain mechanic"on these 3 squares (but beware of gankers).

Then afterwards , try to search the whole WvW map  for the "MD" (metal dust) and drag and drop on the area that the rain is activated and walk through that area once again , for some " rusty rain" that eat slowly the walls .

You can cast a bigger "R"(rain) that can cover all the WvW map  if you find it , but you must cover a lot of distance and more gankers will see you

 

Edit: This effect could last 5 min and destroy 5% of the door , and other people effects are lined up to be done later .

Also there a "water pool" that  "coppies"  the "letter that are found and used by other players  and the commander of the biggest guild or others (Camp tactivation mechanic) can manually "cancel" the" rusty rain" by using "W-wind" or enhance it by casting "F-fire" and in that area boons are removed from everyone and they move faster,or "D-Darkness" where downstate is not allowed   can override the sequence with his own (if the combo pending is from his server)

 

Edit3: d) What if , over time the castle-keeps are self-improving , like attracting villagers , building houses around them > farms > extra walls > monasteries >  accidentally create  bridges -arcways between the monastery and inside keep , that the enemy can use and have a change of pace for fights (like fighting a gatekeeper that has constant knockback and cannot be ranged damage further than 450 yards(invisible bubble) . People find items that increase population rate or contruction  , but the system also chooses a drawback : hidden backdoor-underground caverns,  or villagers allow the main doors to be open alowing the enemies to have 90% less stats and disguised as friendly npcs that have 99% less stats)  and persuade the Keep to accindetally create more "backfires" . Hopefully the defender can see which npc is moving irrational and throw a "remove disguise-trap"    , or the villagers  run when they detect the zerg , allowing X ammount of people to pass  with the opened doord vs X amount of defenders  that there are  , while the attackers have 90% less stats and their goal is to hit the door from the inside that has the "wooden plank" that dont allow the 2 doors parts to open

 

cy Johny

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Woof.8246

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Woof.8246 said:

a) What about we create a progression system for new players (check achiv).

As fresh people stroll through the woods , they can smell the iron from the bloodsoaked enemies (see the enemy on minimap and have an "!" icon) and they have a "croutch-stealth ability" like ESO to escape .

Or they choose 1/8 of their screen and they get perma invisbile . If the enemy have also choose that same piece he can see the new player  through that spot . As the time goes on , the new player must choose another "screen pie" . Ultimately after 2 week , he is fully transparent and neither this or ESO mechanics works.

The goal of the new player is to find low life mobs and become them , that allow him to beat bigger mobs that have a weakness to it . If in the meanwhile he can capture a camp or follow the commander . Facing real opponents as "animal" he sees their attack pattern . After 2 months the "animal form" have a chance to break on DAMAGE THAT HE DEALT , and even more as the character gets older (better reroll a fresh character. But after 3 characters the RNG to break  will be too high and perma for this account)

 

b) I am  guessing that  taking the WvW and splitting them into parts and randomize them , with "fog-unexpored areas" to "keep fresh things" and extra thick fog to hide the  edges to cover some silliness that might occur is not fisable ? Each WvW part is categorized as "as jicksaw puzzle"and basted on the areas you  go in or out , we create placibo new WvW parts that connect those 1,3 ,6, 9 , 12 spots (which are live WvW parts ) ?

                            1         ----             placibo  asset            -----         3

                      placibo                   ------             6                 ---------    placibo

                           9            -------                       placibo           ------         12

 

c) Could you drag and drop huge letters when you open  the "map-"M"" ?

Like Placing an "R" on the map that covers 3 square-areas  and dropping some pods   . When you walk throught the map and activate those pods , so you  you activate the "rain mechanic"on these 3 squares (but beware of gankers).

Then afterwards , try to search the whole WvW map  for the "MD" (metal dust) and drag and drop on the area that the rain is activated and walk through that area once again , for some " rusty rain" that eat slowly the walls .

You can cast a bigger "R"(rain) that can cover all the WvW map  if you find it , but you must cover a lot of distance and more gankers will see you

 

Edit: This effect could last 5 min and destroy 5% of the door , and other people effects are lined up to be done later .

Also there a "water pool" that  "coppies"  the "letter that are found and used by other players  and the commander of the biggest guild or others (Camp tactivation mechanic) can manually "cancel" the" rusty rain" by using "W-wind" or enhance it by casting "F-fire" and in that area boons are removed from everyone and they move faster,or "D-Darkness" where downstate is not allowed   can override the sequence with his own (if the combo pending is from his server)

 

Edit3: d) What if , over time the castle-keeps are self-improving , like attracting villagers , building houses around them > farms > extra walls > monasteries >  accidentally create  bridges -arcways between the monastery and inside keep , that the enemy can use and have a change of pace for fights (like fighting a gatekeeper that has constant knockback and cannot be ranged damage further than 450 yards(invisible bubble) . People find items that increase population rate or contruction  , but the system also chooses a drawback : hidden backdoor-underground caverns,  or villagers allow the main doors to be open alowing the enemies to have 90% less stats and disguised as friendly npcs that have 99% less stats)  and persuade the Keep to accindetally create more "backfires" . Hopefully the defender can see which npc is moving irrational and throw a "remove disguise-trap"    , or the villagers  run when they detect the zerg , allowing X ammount of people to pass  with the opened doord vs X amount of defenders  that there are  , while the attackers have 90% less stats and their goal is to hit the door from the inside that has the "wooden plank" that dont allow the 2 doors parts to open

 

cy Johny

 

You can level up toons in WvW. Did that after Warhammer shutdown. Still help guildmates do that recently. We don't need special mechanics we just need players to know where they can aid and where they might be a liability till they level up. Ironically the current holiday is actually an even better spot for people that want to WvW to level up. Still remember leveling 8 toons for WvW in one Halloween event a decade+ ago. But no, I wouldn't change WvW mechanics for people leveling since found you didn't need to. EotM was a better place for that so not sure on changing xp here and maybe that is a better target for the change, or just re-adding XP there so players that are thinking to try WvW can do so and level at the same time. I don't need any more alt unless they add more elites so coming at this from an angle with toons to level at this point.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:55 AM, Spurnshadow.3678 said:

You have a very skewed view of history.

The players were outraged and pushed back against DBL when released, but that was because it was a disaster.  The game crashed every 2 hours when the central event happened.  The framerate dropped to near nothing whenever anyone went close to the middle zone.  There were a lot more NPC monsters than what's there now that were red and you'd aggro all the time, slowing you down when running from point A to B.  The map is about the same size as Alpine, but they had barriers that had to be destroyed to move beyond spawn if controlled by the enemy.  If you were solo or in a small group, these took forever to destroy.  There was no movement from the shrines if I recall correctly.  There were tons of ways to enter the keeps by jumping or gliding in that they took years to fix.   I could go on and on.  All of these problems were presented to Anet in the beta and they did nothing to fix it.  So yeah, the players were outraged because Anet presented us with a steaming pile of garbage and it was the first map update since launch.

World linking was not presented as a new feature.  It was designed and meant to be a temporary band-aid because world population was so low.  They said they were working on a plan to have a more permanent solution, they just didn't know what it was going to be.  They never got around to it.

Game crashed for the top tiers that triple zerged it, it was a great experience in tiers 5, 6, and 7. There were two aggro stoneheads in the oasis, the rest was yellows you just had to not hit with aoes. I don't know about the jumping into keeps, but gliding didn't exist for over its first year. The barriers you speak of were extended walls of the tower(which would upgrade with said tower) at first, which later got downgraded to barriers.  These only blocked the immediate vicinity of the tower, and NOTHING else. They were part of the tower actually contributing to a form of zone control, rather than being just some walls to hide behind or siege from. The map's design added difficulty and complexity to every level of play, from solo to zergs, unfortunately our community wants things easier and faster if not immediate(lf content? Any tags?) And boy did we unleash that on this forum.

Overall the oasis event was made to counter people hurtling inside structures, and forced servers to come out, which ma y think is a good thing, apparently the top tiers just went a bit too hard doing so. The lower tiers had a bit more playability, as you sometimes could forego the oasis to hit a tower or keep while most of its defenders are in the oasis, or snipe players or groups even,  attempting to run those cores in the oasis. My guild had a ton of fun in the desert, though I do agree it wasn't perfect, because nothing is (otherwise this forum would be silent with nothing to complain about). Also it didn't help population numbers that 90% of the guild hall upgrades were best (or only)obtained in pve, and wvw population had a bad hit. The beta also wasn't handled well as far as I saw, so agree with you on that one. 

[SlateSloan.3654]

Its just community never shares ideas and feedback with anet. Forums and social media empty, not a single player ever wrote anything in the past 11 years. 
 

how could they ever know?

[TheGrimm.5624]

21 minutes ago, SlateSloan.3654 said:

Its just community never shares ideas and feedback with anet. Forums and social media empty, not a single player ever wrote anything in the past 11 years. 
 

how could they ever know?

lol, not wrong and have done so as well. But also over time have seen community ask for two rocks and stick so we could have balance, not agreeing with that group either. So will grant it is complicated to be fair to all 68 sides.

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:31 AM, SlateSloan.3654 said:

Its just community never shares ideas and feedback with anet. Forums and social media empty, not a single player ever wrote anything in the past 11 years. 
 

how could they ever know?

this sarcasm right?

[MarzAttakz.9608]

11 years of passionate feedback, 11 years of studio denial. I'm done investing thought and energy into a black hole.

Now I talk with the only currency they understand: money. It's very simple, I don't spend it on ArenaNet anymore.

[Absurd.2947]

Code is so meme they change a random pve tooltip and two walls disappear from WvW structures and you people expect meaningful changes.