Coolster.2536 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 On one hand, I wanted OH Sword to have a channeled block and be a utility weapon. On the other, THE SWORDS DESIRE BLOOD! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichOverlord.6329 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Coolster.2536 said: On one hand, I wanted OH Sword to have a channeled block and be a utility weapon. On the other, THE SWORDS DESIRE BLOOD! I feel like that would just be too similar to mesmer's OH sword, and not lend itself well to necromancer's riskier playstyle Who needs block when you're a master of death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Hunter D.5037 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, LichOverlord.6329 said: I feel like that would just be too similar to mesmer's OH sword, and not lend itself well to necromancer's riskier playstyle Who needs block when you're a master of death? Maybe a riposte without the block, scaling off how much damage you took? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: The melee condi camp is just being weird. Any ranged condi weapon (of which we now have two, one being absolutely GOAT) can be used in melee range. No melee condi weapon Anet could give us was going to compete with what we already have. As for the theme, it will be interesting to see how OH sword pairs with MH dagger. Looks like it's going to give players lots of choice for how they play and control the fights. Oh please. Warriors aren't super stoked about their mainhand sword which is a hybrid weapon of all things, yet many necros would kill to have that. Melee condi cleave with solid base duration on it's condi? Yes pls! Something that doesn't need a grandmaster trait to work at all (condi GS, scepter), and packs actual punch outta the box (hi Staff and Pistol autos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Shade.7240 said: Was really terrified of what it could be, but I'm glad its a power weapon and looks really great. Downside is that I cannot tell if its a ranged weapon or close combat, even if one of the skills is a gap closer/retreat. Not sure about the risk and reward thing especially combined with the Harbinger traits. Did you watch the video? The Necro is in melee range for less than a second between the leap attack and immediate dodge back out of melee. EVERY single attack in the trailer is at range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: The melee condi camp is just being weird. Any ranged condi weapon (of which we now have two, one being absolutely GOAT) can be used in melee range. No melee condi weapon Anet could give us was going to compete with what we already have. As for the theme, it will be interesting to see how OH sword pairs with MH dagger. Looks like it's going to give players lots of choice for how they play and control the fights. First I'm really excited for the swords for my Reaper. I don't see myself using any other weapons for it based on the introduction. I dislike this because previously Dagger was the power life steal blood magic weapon with sacrificing your health to empower your damage. Axe was the power ranged weapon. Greatsword was the power AOE cleave weapon. But now we have sword which is described as a Power ranged cleave weapon with great life stealing. And it is the only Necro weapon with leaps. There just is zero space left for the three existing Power weapons without a complete overhaul of each one. There'd be much more room in the design space to make a melee condi weapon without pushing out Pistol or Scepter. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loules.8601 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: Did you watch the video? The Necro is in melee range for less than a second between the leap attack and immediate dodge back out of melee. EVERY single attack in the trailer is at range. Maybe I’m in wrong but if it’s really a long-range swords - Anet would probably mention it from the start. Not like they try to hide this type of information. And it would be very strange to have leap to enemy on range weapon - seems like almost an impossible situation to see in-game considering basic rules of game-design. I think we already have range skills and projectiles on several melee swords, so it’s not like it’s something new. Again, maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that it’s a melee weapon with some range skills - maybe even smth like 450 range on Revenant and Guardian (iirc) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: Oh please. Warriors aren't super stoked about their mainhand sword which is a hybrid weapon of all things, yet many necros would kill to have that. Melee condi cleave with solid base duration on it's condi? Yes pls! Something that doesn't need a grandmaster trait to work at all (condi GS, scepter), and packs actual punch outta the box (hi Staff and Pistol autos). Weird reply to me ... what I said has nothing to do with what warriors are super stoked about, your desire for a melee condi 'cleave' weapon (which isn't that far off from ranged condi weapons that possess AOE/piercing/bounce effects) or needing a GM trait to work either. I really don't get your 'oh please' response ... Necro has had some of the most GOAT condi weapons and traits in this game (and still do). People not understanding how effective condi Necros are in this game, or the fact that ranged weapons are JUST as effective in melee range, is the only reason I can think of that those people keep asking for melee condi weapons. Edited November 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said: Yess mobility, also now we need a chef's knife sword for gourmand necros. Not just necros, I want one for my Charrzerker Lv500 Chef. A rolling pin mace skin and a giant meat tenderizer hammer skin would be good too. Edited November 20, 2023 by Teknomancer.4895 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marckan.9526 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Loules.8601 said: Maybe I’m in wrong but if it’s really a long-range swords - Anet would probably mention it from the start. Not like they try to hide this type of information. And it would be very strange to have leap to enemy on range weapon - seems like almost an impossible situation to see in-game considering basic rules of game-design. I think we already have range skills and projectiles on several melee swords, so it’s not like it’s something new. Again, maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that it’s a melee weapon with some range skills - maybe even smth like 450 range on Revenant and Guardian (iirc) I agree with this analysis, anything else doesn't make much sense - if it was entirely ranged than the leap would be a backwards disengage and not a melee engage. We can estimate the distance traveled by comparing the size of the objects in the picture: In the video it very much looks like the dodge roll puts the necro right back from where he first lept. There is ofcourse a change in camera view and the focal length is a bit long which makes things distorted compared to how most people play. It looks to me like the enemy in the first view from our necro POV is the same size (and therefor distance) as the size of our necro when the camera flips and our necro dodge rolls backwards. Them being the same size meaning the distance is the same. Unless they changed the focal length, which doesn't appear to be the case. I believe a dodge roll is 300 units but I doubt they'd go that low so 450-range seems reasonable! Edited November 20, 2023 by Marckan.9526 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Marckan.9526 said: In the video it very much looks like the dodge roll puts the necro right back from where he first lept. In other words, they copied Blade Leap from Virtuoso. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichOverlord.6329 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Angel Hunter D.5037 said: Maybe a riposte without the block, scaling off how much damage you took? Not a bad idea, though with all the healing you'd hypothetically get from these swords, I just don't feel a riposte would fit thematically nor mechanically with what these weapons seem like they're trying to accomplish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichOverlord.6329 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: In other words, they copied Blade Leap from Virtuoso. Either that, or the person who used said roll was just very precise - we won't know if it actually has a recall mechanic until the beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psizone.8437 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, Loules.8601 said: Maybe I’m in wrong but if it’s really a long-range swords - Anet would probably mention it from the start. Not like they try to hide this type of information. And it would be very strange to have leap to enemy on range weapon - seems like almost an impossible situation to see in-game considering basic rules of game-design. But they had a whole video showcasing the ranged attacks, including what looks like ranged auto-attacks so they're not hiding it. Engineer rifle is a ranged weapon with a leap attack so it's not exactly new. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichOverlord.6329 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, Loules.8601 said: Maybe I’m in wrong but if it’s really a long-range swords - Anet would probably mention it from the start. Not like they try to hide this type of information. And it would be very strange to have leap to enemy on range weapon - seems like almost an impossible situation to see in-game considering basic rules of game-design. I think we already have range skills and projectiles on several melee swords, so it’s not like it’s something new. Again, maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that it’s a melee weapon with some range skills - maybe even smth like 450 range on Revenant and Guardian (iirc) It's a ranged weapon, I 100% guarantee you of that Literally every ability they used in the trailer was used at a range, including the leap - not once did they actually activate a skill from within melee range Anet isn't trying to "hide" anything - I think they made it pretty clear from the trailer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichOverlord.6329 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: First I'm really excited for the swords for my Reaper. I don't see myself using any other weapons for it based on the introduction. I dislike this because previously Dagger was the power life steal blood magic weapon with sacrificing your health to empower your damage. Axe was the power ranged weapon. Greatsword was the power AOE cleave weapon. But now we have sword which is described as a Power ranged cleave weapon with great life stealing. And it is the only Necro weapon with leaps. There just is zero space left for the three existing Power weapons without a complete overhaul of each one. There'd be much more room in the design space to make a melee condi weapon without pushing out Pistol or Scepter. I would imagine that these swords will have to end up being a hybrid weapon that does a little bit of each of those, and if you wanted a specific function you'd still use the dagger, axe, or greatsword as it would provide greater benefits at that one thing ...that's at least how it would have to be to not muddy the design space too much - we'll have to see when the beta launches next Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, LichOverlord.6329 said: Either that, or the person who used said roll was just very precise - we won't know if it actually has a recall mechanic until the beta Considering their usual approach of copy-pasting everything, plus their habit of taking things from Mesmer and giving them to everyone else, I'd say it's the most likely scenario. 😒 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: 3. The Swords look to be completely destroying Dagger as life stealing power weapons, Greatsword for Power cleave, and Axe for power ranged. My guess is that it will be semi-split; dagger will be for self heal and swords for support heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: 3. The Swords look to be completely destroying Dagger as life stealing power weapons, Greatsword for Power cleave, and Axe for power ranged. A rare triple whammy. It's not gonna be. They said Sword is gonna cost health to use their hard hitting flipskills, and only two mentioned skills of Sword set heals. Unless their auto heals or something, it's gonna be weaker than a Life Siphon Dagger in terms of sustain. Edited November 21, 2023 by Yasai.3549 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck.3697 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Well. we know who won lol. you took a Class which has continously Gone through heaps of time Overpowered. and gave it the only thing it actually lacked, mobility lmfao However Very cool concept, and tbh Looks really fun :P, Happy for the Necro bros Wonder how many people gonna be rolling necro in the next meta lmfao 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck.3697 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said: It's not gonna be. They said Sword is gonna cost health to use their hard hitting flipskills, and only two mentioned skills of Sword set heals. Unless their auto heals or something, it's gonna be weaker than a Life Siphon Dagger in terms of sustain. well they've said also life leech is a core of its skillset in its description. so i imagine its gonna have alot of self healing to balance the life costs 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: well they've said also life leech is a core of its skillset in its description. so i imagine its gonna have alot of self healing to balance the life costs Not really gonna turn heads I imagine, Necro does have quite abit of self sustain already as well as Shroud durability for the cases of Core, Necro and Scourge. All that's left is seeing where the skills are spread. If the AoE drain and Leap are all stuck on OH Sword, man I'm not even gonna care about MH Sword. Dagger/Sword for me for maximum Vampirism. Realistically, it's gonna be Leap on MH, like most Swords. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: well they've said also life leech is a core of its skillset in its description. so i imagine its gonna have alot of self healing to balance the life costs I would actually think that the life costs for the sword leap skills are going to be very expensive compared to the amount you can leech. If they aren't, then it makes executing those skills with life costs to not have much consequence as a choice. In otherwords, if the life costs are low, then the leap is a 'freebie' you use all the time because it's simply better than trying to run to where you want to be. There needs to be a consequence of use that matches the impact of use. That could be lots of things like CD for instance, but the obvious one here is the life cost. Personally, I don't think MH sword will be all that interesting, considering what it competes with in that slot. On the other hand, OH sword at least offers something other OH's don't and probably matches pretty well with at least Dagger MH. Edited November 21, 2023 by Obtena.7952 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolster.2536 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 4 hours ago, LichOverlord.6329 said: I feel like that would just be too similar to mesmer's OH sword, and not lend itself well to necromancer's riskier playstyle Who needs block when you're a master of death? I was thinking more Warrior's OH Sword, but to answer your question: There are some mechanics that 2 health bars can't eat 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marckan.9526 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 31 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said: If the AoE drain and Leap are all stuck on OH Sword, man I'm not even gonna care about MH Sword. Dagger/Sword for me for maximum Vampirism. Realistically, it's gonna be Leap on MH, like most Swords. They already gave you the answer in the original post Quote The main-hand sword skill 3, Path of Gluttony, will allow the necromancer to leap to their enemy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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