gift of battle

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

On 11/30/2023 at 1:18 PM, Dangerous War.9621 said:

Need to come out with another way of getting the gift of battle besides wvw. Something that involves pve for those of us that cant stand wvw or pvp.

I mentioned this the other day in another thread, but there's https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_Mist_Rewards.  They were in black lion chests back in late March this year.  80 blc keys got ya' 80 potions, which is what is needed to completely fill the reward track and get a GoB.  You could get keys without swiping by a mix of weekly key runs, map completion, and gathering/selling mats for gold to convert to gems for key sales; all pve content.

The potions will eventually come back to blc chests at some point, especially if peeps start requesting them.

It may not be the PvE solution you wanted, it's slow to get keys w/o swiping and unpredictable when the potions will return, but it's an alternative that exists.

~EpWa

Edited December 6, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[XenesisII.1540]

2 hours ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

I mentioned this the other day in another thread, but there's https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_Mist_Rewards.  They were in black lion chests back in late March this year.  80 blc keys got ya' 80 potions, which is what is needed to completely fill the reward track and get a GoB.  You could get keys without swiping by a mix of weekly key runs and gathering/selling mats for gold to convert to gems for key sales; all pve content.

The potions will eventually come back to blc chests at some point, especially if peeps start requesting them.

It may not be the PvE solution you wanted, it's slow to get keys w/o swiping and unpredictable when the potions will return, but it's an alternative that exists.

~EpWa

All that just to save 4 hours in wvw? 🥴

[TheIceman.1039]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:18 PM, Dangerous War.9621 said:

Need to come out with another way of getting the gift of battle besides wvw. Something that involves pve for those of us that cant stand wvw or pvp. I rather have all my teeth pulled with no antisea than play wvw or pvp bewcause that is not my kind of fun. And ALOT of people thnk my way too

You can roam solo red map. Claim camps, kill all keep mobs etc. Can drive enemy scouts nuts if u smart run wise. 

[Solvar.7953]

If you really dislike a game mode, it may be worth it.  Also, different people have different amount of free money to spend - for someone to spend a bit of money might not be a big deal for them (recent discussion on buying HP in main discussion comes to mind) - it might not make sense for a lot of people, but for some people, especially if they have a well paying job, spending $40 (or whatever) to skip content they really don't like to get something done they really want is a minor cost.

I do see the point about moving goalposts - that said, there are a few well defined modes of gameplay (pvp, wvw, pve).  I supposed instances (fractals, raids, dungeons, strikes) should be added to that.  They are distinct enough that there are in fact separate discussion areas for each of them.

In some way, if completing a legendary item required a lot more WvW play, this might actually be less an issue - in that case, players would either choose the TP options, or just make the decision not to try to make the item if it actually required 40 hours (lets say) of WvW play.  Whether that would be good for the game population as a whole is hard to say, but for many, it is probably a bit galling to get 99% of the work done to find that last piece is content you really don't want to play.

I do remember back in the day that GoE required exploring all the WvW maps.  They removed that requirement at some point and it didn't seem to cause any problems (except probably for noobs who were easy kills for players).

I am curious what is going to happen with the PvE legendary armor - whether that won't require the GoB, add a different way to get it, or still require it.  It seems like adding 'PvE' legendary armor that requires one to go to WvW to get items is only marginally PvE armor.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

40 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

If you really dislike a game mode, it may be worth it.  Also, different people have different amount of free money to spend - for someone to spend a bit of money might not be a big deal for them (recent discussion on buying HP in main discussion comes to mind) - it might not make sense for a lot of people, but for some people, especially if they have a well paying job, spending $40 (or whatever) to skip content they really don't like to get something done they really want is a minor cost.

For the most point, there is no point treating a game like a job since practically any job is going to beat grinding in a game. It's either that or just play preferred content and farm gold in that manner.

And for me, if I really hated WvW, I wouldn't even think twice and just buy it off the TP. Anything else would just be a waste of time, even discussing it. At the very least I save 10-20 hours of map exploration and whatever time I would be in WvW.  That time could be used to do something much more fun and productive. Say that 25  hours went to fractals instead. I'd already be 1/3 of the way  there.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

In some way, if completing a legendary item required a lot more WvW play, this might actually be less an issue - in that case, players would either choose the TP options, or just make the decision not to try to make the item if it actually required 40 hours (lets say) of WvW play.

Extremely doubtful, considering we've changed it so that it is almost twice as fast as before yet the complaints still remain because it just involves any WvW. The other evidence against it, is Legendary Armor which does take a much longer time to do.

40 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I do remember back in the day that GoE required exploring all the WvW maps.  They removed that requirement at some point and it didn't seem to cause any problems (except probably for noobs who were easy kills for players).

It was bad design since you'd basically have to go into enemy spawns and inner keeps, and too dependent on your world's performance.

40 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I am curious what is going to happen with the PvE legendary armor - whether that won't require the GoB, add a different way to get it, or still require it.  It seems like adding 'PvE' legendary armor that requires one to go to WvW to get items is only marginally PvE armor.

Well, they never said it wouldn't involve competitive content at all, but rather not involve "heavy investment". I don't think they will but popcorn's always around i=f it does. 🤣

I really do believe if people have the time to be so obsessed over a 0% damage increase, then maybe the gear system works fine. I also think "endgame" players should have no trouble with spending thousands of gold on a goal and most players that have issues with that are not endgame and are in over their heads. Every time I see a player worried about 100 extra gold when making a legendary, I can say they're not ready to make one.

Edited December 2, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I supposed instances (fractals, raids, dungeons, strikes) should be added to that. 

But why? In other games no one separates instances like raids from pve. I specifically have my experience from Destiny 2 in mind.

[Sweetbread.3678]

I'd be more open to players having to play every game mode to get a legendary if every game mode was equally supported and of similar quality. WvW is an imbalanced, terribly designed, largely dev abandoned piece of content that's only viable because PvErs are literally forced into artificially inflating its population. At this point it's clearly not about making players "experience all the content" or some bullkitten, it's about forcing people that don't even enjoy PvP to prop up a failed game mode that can't stand on its own merits.

[Junkpile.7439]

Would be better if you would have to PvP your way in raid portal. Game needs real open world PvP. Char v asura v humans v vegetables

[Ares Alpha.6725]

4 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

I'd be more open to players having to play every game mode to get a legendary if every game mode was equally supported and of similar quality. WvW is an imbalanced, terribly designed, largely dev abandoned piece of content that's only viable because PvErs are literally forced into artificially inflating its population. At this point it's clearly not about making players "experience all the content" or some bullkitten, it's about forcing people that don't even enjoy PvP to prop up a failed game mode that can't stand on its own merits.

See, that's your oppinion. I don't like PvE, mostly there is no skill required by players. I prefer competition and Anet is forcing me to play hours and hours of boring PvE content. I do even need kill proof for PvE, like wings. In WvW I can simply join a map and play. Maps like HoT are weird and confusing and so on.

Also imbalance you can find all over the game in every mode. It depends on you, what you are doing with it. Get a build, customise it for your needs and defeat the imbalance or use the imbalance for your own advantage. 

But too many players prefer complaining instead of acting.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:43 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Why would you have your teeth pulled, when you could just buy the legendary weapon?

The OP probably doesn't like PvE endgame content like Fractals and Raids, either, thus cannot afford buying a legendary weapon at the TP. 😄

[ArchonWing.9480]

9 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

But why? In other games no one separates instances like raids from pve. I specifically have my experience from Destiny 2 in mind.

lol I can separate them, but it would not be favorable to anyone that tries to push that argument.

Raids and fractals are endgame pve content. WvW has no seperation because it is also considered endgame content. Therefore, if someone doesn't want to do them, that means that they are not ready for the endgame. That also explains why they'd have so much trouble getting an endgame thing such as a legendary and all such complaints are just user error. They are not ready yet.

This was proven when they put in raid "like" metas in EoD that were.... mildly received say to least. Good players of course had little complaints beyond tuning, but the usual suspects threw a fit when the game told them they did not understand it, and thus did not deserve rewards. (Granted, the rewards were questionable). Meanwhile I came in with some friends and was mostly spamming 1 with a Mechanist and didn't really see the fuss. Pretty fun really. I am quite the open world enjoyer myself, so I was wondering why these open world "mains" couldn't seem to. Was very sad to see them not go that path of having meta events that could actually fail.

😉

  

9 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

I'd be more open to players having to play every game mode to get a legendary if every game mode was equally supported and of similar quality. WvW is an imbalanced, terribly designed, largely dev abandoned piece of content that's only viable because PvErs are literally forced into artificially inflating its population. At this point it's clearly not about making players "experience all the content" or some bullkitten, it's about forcing people that don't even enjoy PvP to prop up a failed game mode that can't stand on its own merits.

 

Actually false. Here's the real failures in this game:

How long does it take to get a new fractal? Several years, and the newest one wasn't very well liked.

How long does it to get a new raid? Don't even answer that.

Heck, how long does it take to get a new pve map, lol. Every new pve map is the definition of abandoned when something new comes up. Same goes for Strikes.

WvW has been around longer than any of these, and it will exist when most of these are forgotten.  Even its peer, the dungeons, have fallen into oblivion.  WvW is the only proven endgame to last in this game. This is why PvErs need to know us; we do not need to know about them. I don't need to care what the newest PvE map, Strike, or Fractal  is or how it works. I only do that if I feel like it.

And this is true, even in its "abandoned" state. Basically, it's like the end to that terrible Jet Li movie.

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

 

New borderland map confirmed. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Had to do it

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

I'd be more open to players having to play every game mode to get a legendary if every game mode was equally supported and of similar quality.

But these are not equal requirements in sheer time either. 

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

WvW is an imbalanced, terribly designed,

Imbalanced depends on who what where when. Terribly designed? Its a sandbox and players create the encounters to be fair to the people that might just be surfing the thread and asking themselves if they want to try WvW. 

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

largely dev abandoned piece of content

That's pretty close to a fair ball.

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

that's only viable because PvErs are literally forced into artificially inflating its population.

And this is not even close. If people don't use the small name plate option you can tell a PvE due to rank a lot of the time. Have seen WvW players bypass them to go for other WvW players first.

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

At this point it's clearly not about making players "experience all the content" or some bullkitten, it's about forcing people

So what about a vendor exchange? What for what would make sense?

10 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

to prop up a failed game mode that can't stand on its own merits.

I am fine that you dislike my game mode, but refrain from applying your opinion over my opinion of the game mode. I am always happy to see new faces in WvW, but don't discount the faces I have seen over a decade of game play and continue to see daily.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

But why? In other games no one separates instances like raids from pve. I specifically have my experience from Destiny 2 in mind.

Crap, as you remind me I am being slacking in trying the new Dungeon out. Wish dragons for the win after all.

[Solvar.7953]

The reason I would separate instanced content from other PvE is just that the play style/requirements can be vastly different.  One can wander around solo doing the OW PvE, probably complete most all content (presuming there are enough other players for WB or Metas) and be fine.

But instanced content needs to find a group to play with, which can be its own challenge (depending on the content and how popular it is - not hard for fractals, but good luck for dungeons).  Some instanced content has different skill requirements, or mechanics to learn, etc.  I personally don't really feel like sitting around for 10 minutes trying to get a group to form - at least with WvW, I can hop in and hit a camp or something pretty much instantly, which is also true for the OW PvE.

So while instanced content is PvE, it is just different enough that I think it deserves separation for OW PvE.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

37 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

The reason I would separate instanced content from other PvE is just that the play style/requirements can be vastly different.  One can wander around solo doing the OW PvE, probably complete most all content (presuming there are enough other players for WB or Metas) and be fine.

That's not a good argument, because you basically said you can solo all open world content.... until you can't. So are we also going to seperate meta events from the rest of open world?

Should  someone be able to exclude meta events also be excluded as a requirement for items in this game?

 

37 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

But instanced content needs to find a group to play with, which can be its own challenge (depending on the content and how popular it is - not hard for fractals, but good luck for dungeons).  Some instanced content has different skill requirements, or mechanics to learn, etc.  I personally don't really feel like sitting around for 10 minutes trying to get a group to form - at least with WvW, I can hop in and hit a camp or something pretty much instantly, which is also true for the OW PvE.

You can solo a number of dungeons and fractals too, or go in  with less than 5 people. Yes, it's a lot harder; it's just that having extra people makes it much easier.

Most of these requirements are arbitrary things set by the players. 

And yes, we actually agree about WvW more than you'd think. But that just makes the requirement more reasonable-- you can get a gift of battle without being dependent on oither people, or even having to fight another player. In fact the later is mostly not relevant to GoB.

Edited December 2, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sweetbread.3678]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Actually false.

Cool. Lemme know when that third borderland comes out; it probably just needs another 8 years.

[ArchonWing.9480]

13 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Cool. Lemme know when that third borderland comes out; it probably just needs another 8 years.

Sure, Can't really see the future, but I am sure there will be a GoB complaint thread in 8 years when we can all meet again. Hopefully people will have gotten all the legendaries they need by then.

[Ares Alpha.6725]

These players have no clue. Who's telling them even for GoE WvW was necessary at the beginning of the game for a few years?! 

[Caliboom.3218]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:04 PM, Kuya.6495 said:

I swear the gw2 pve playerbase is the only mmo playerbase I see get upset when they are asked to play the game to get the best items.

Do these people complain that they have to 100% a game to get platinum on psn too?

Funny that you say that because in other MMOs I've played, PvErs complained when they had to do the PvP part of the game. Maybe there's a reasoning.

On a side note, why do people assume PvErs like doing world completion? Like, they don't, it's boring as hell, I wish I didn't have to do it either.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Caliboom.3218

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

Funny that you say that because in other MMOs I've played, PvErs complained when they had to do the PvP part of the game. Maybe there's a reasoning.

On a side note, why do people assume PvErs like doing world completion? Like, they don't, it's boring as hell, I wish I didn't have to do it either.

For what its worth, Ive seen many PvEers say that they like doing world comp. I know players that have dozens more GoE than they will ever need because map completion is their favorite part of the game.

I dont understand it either, but they exist.

[kharmin.7683]

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

For what its worth, Ive seen many PvEers say that they like doing world comp. I know players that have dozens more GoE than they will ever need because map completion is their favorite part of the game.

I dont understand it either, but they exist.

For me, a very casual OW PvE player, I usually enjoy going through the various core Tyria zones and at some point realize that hey this map is almost done so I finish it.  Eventually, all I have left are LA and the starter towns (QD, etc) so I just finish those to be 100% complete.  I don't have many toons, but have 6 GoE (over 10+ years) ... that I will never use because I have no desire to go for legendary items.

 

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

that I will never use because I have no desire to go for legendary items.

 

Never say never.

I had no interest in going for legendary armor until a guildie asked (kind of off hand) how many skirmish tickets I had. When I mentioned the number he pointed out that it was enouth to complete two full sets and start the third. I had everything needed so I went ahead. My favorite aspect, initially at least, was free cosmetic transmutation.

[TheGrimm.5624]

If you are finding you need GoB, don't read into this as how complicated it is to get it. View it more as you have various options to get it. How complicated those options are depend on how engaged you want to be. More engaged, the faster you meet your goals. Joining a tag and following along is nothing more than joining a world boss event. It doesn't mean you are going to do great, but depending on what you are facing it also may not be more than playing your toon. 

If you aren't used to following a tag or want to go solo, you still can. In WvW that's where Roamers come in. You can go solo and again depending on level of risk will factor in how long it may take. Killing NPCs in WvW is not much different then in PvE. The only thing I haven't seen is a roamer do is take SMC. If you don't PvP then its more like a survival game, pay attention to your environment and watch for others coming for you while you PvE. 

I do admit it might be easier to find a tag, a group, a guild or a friendly havoc or a roamer out roaming and just tell them what you are trying to do and you might find an extra hand or pointers how to make the most of your time. 

[Solvar.7953]

I think I've done world completion 9 times now.  I just do it at a slow and relaxing place - I think if I started and said 'my only focus for the next 20 hours is to do world completion', it would not be very fun, and perhaps frustrating.  Instead, I'd do 10-15 minutes a day (do my dailies in some map that I need to explore), and then finish off that map when there were just a few things missing - this isn't for everyone, bu worked for me.  And it certainly helps that I enjoy PvE - if I disliked PvE, the entire thing would be a painful process.

So this probably where it flips onto GoB - the way WvW rewards work, you are better off doing it in longer stretches (unless you know the map switch trick, it may be up to 5 minutes to get the first WvW tick reward).  You want a high participation, and want to keep it up, so you can't be too casual about it.  I wonder if this is some of the problem with GoB acquisition - PvE players are not going to be familiar with the various tricks/methods/fastest way to get it, so take considerably longer getting the reward than the experienced WvW player.

But the other thing, is if you just don't enjoy the content, every minute in that content is going to be aggravating - it doesn't matter if that content is PvP, WvW, PvE, whatever.  I mostly do PvE, but a bit of WvW, and I usually find that after 30-60 minutes of WvW, I'm done for the day - it just feels repetitive to me (oh, we're capturing this keep yet again), but I can play PvE for hours without that same feeling.  This is certainly personal preference - just like what ones favorite color is, there is no right or wrong answer - you can't tell someone that they should enjoy some content because of X - if they don't enjoy it, they don't enjoy it.