FSP vs WSR - something must be wrong with the matchup system?

[Thomas.2564]

35 minutes ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

They avoid ppt to farm lower quality mu

This indicates that there should high quality tiers? Where are these so called tiers? U talking about t1? Where the mantra is ppt, ppt, ppt, ppt, ppt, then ppt some more, then logout. 

There are 0 good tiers. There are tiers with more players, yes. But even there the quality is WAY below average. Quality has been declining for years now.  Since the builds dont challenge the user anymore. U use to be able to tell good players from bad, but the current builds in wvw do more then 50% of the work for the player. 

[krill.4902]

2 hours ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Been on wsr for a few weeks. They avoid ppt to farm lower quality mu

For a few weeks?🤣 And you know WSR so much?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

1 hour ago, krill.4902 said:

For a few weeks?🤣 And you know WSR so much?

Erm, Been fighting them for years too, so yes.

[krill.4902]

20 minutes ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Erm, Been fighting them for years too, so yes.

🤣ok you fought all servers so you know all rules of all EU servers, INCREDIBLE!!

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

13 minutes ago, krill.4902 said:

🤣ok you fought all servers so you know all rules of all EU servers, INCREDIBLE!!

😕             

[Vardy.3592]

So you decided to join WSR because you kept getting farmed?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

26 minutes ago, Vardy.3592 said:

So you decided to join WSR because you kept getting farmed?

What? Nono. I joined wsr when they was solo link, not the last link though but  before wsr tanked. Then left because it was mostly 1 sided mu - quing for ages only to find nothing much going on

[Mabi black.1824]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:43 PM, erKo.9586 said:

Hi all! I never use the forums but today I coulnd't stay away.

I just want to know how Anets system is working to create matchups? 

https://ibb.co/2cvmzcD
https://ibb.co/qRsFP7q

This is during the day on a saturday, WSR put up so much siege at our spawn in EB that we couldn't pass with 10-15 players.
I mean if WSR have so many players more than us (FSP) how is the high tier servers lol?

/ A sad FSP player. 

Usually the WVW player comes to ask himself this question after a few months of playing, and when he finds himself in 2 situations :

1- your team does not have a connection ;

2- Your team has obtained outgoing transfers of a considerable number of players.

And the answer is yes. Something is wrong with the current mechanics. 

So, the player lands on the forum, full of good intentions, to understand how the mechanic works and to contribute with some good suggestions (as in this post). Thus he finds that many good suggestions have already been said and written. evaluated and reasoned from many points of view. The next phase that our passionate player faces, is to understand why the development of Anet has not collected some suggestions, has not opened a discussion on the merits, has not changed its approach/control from passive to active, has not organized periodic events to verify in the field one suggestion rather than another. nothing.

And yet, good advice has come from the community? And yet there seems to be room to improve the competitive aspect of this mode? Our passionate gamer still has the belief that WVW still has a lot of potential to engage players. So he finally writes his impassioned message to Anet, full of good intentions and good hopes. Only time will be his friend, because the answers and the confrontation will not come. Until he realizes that the message he has sent is like when NASA launched its Voyager into space in 1977 with the hope that some form of intelligent life maybe, one day, receive it, to finally know if we are alone in this universe. 😉

What do you say Anet, are we alone in this universe?🤭

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Nauda.3678]

It was pretty obvious that WSR tanked hard in the last few weeks before relink. And it's not really any unique behaviour. Lot's of server have done this in the past and will do it in the future and even for this last relink there were other servers doing it as well except maybe on a less effective level. Servers dropping their population on purpose has happend basically since release in 2012 so it's really nothing new.

Just in this particular matchup a very overstacked server faces very empty server where larger numbers of players left after relink so the difference in population is especially noticeable. And with only 4 weeks for this link this time there is also no way for the matchmaking system to catch up and balance this difference fast enough.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nauda.3678

[Chaba.5410]

48 minutes ago, Nauda.3678 said:

It was pretty obvious that WSR tanked hard in the last few weeks before relink.

Did they?

Well then, this image should adequately sum up the OP's title about something being wrong with the match-up system: https://marketbusinessnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/GIGO-garbage-in-garbage-out-definiion-and-illustration.jpg

It's a system meant to keep a world closed until natural player attrition occurs.  So play naturally to keep the quality of the data high.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[ande.9832]

im not gonna read all the comments. if WSR is dominating, then it is like that..since they have the best players eu west atm. no offence against other servers, its just the amount of good players what makes them chads. if they enjoy farming 24/7,without any competition, with their frens..then let them be..and get good to win against them at some point..

 

also im just here to be part of nonsense

Edited December 5, 2023 by ande.9832

[Junkpile.7439]

WSR guilds still hide in eb? 😆

[gloflop.3510]

There is also a riverside that is even below fsp.

Let me explain the problem in short: Wsr decided during the last link that they are sick of being without a link and thus stopped playing to make them drop in their population. This also worked and wsr got a good link. The players all came back and started playing again. So, we now have an overcrowded server against 2 "normal" servers (I consider fsp as normal despite the outflow of players lately since riverside is even below). The problem will not vanish with the new system as guilds can stop playing for one link period and consequently have no activity level. Hence, coming back to the game fully would cause the system to become imbalanced.

[Hellbound.5610]

27 minutes ago, gloflop.3510 said:

There is also a riverside that is even below fsp.

Let me explain the problem in short: Wsr decided during the last link that they are sick of being without a link and thus stopped playing to make them drop in their population. This also worked and wsr got a good link. The players all came back and started playing again. So, we now have an overcrowded server against 2 "normal" servers (I consider fsp as normal despite the outflow of players lately since riverside is even below). The problem will not vanish with the new system as guilds can stop playing for one link period and consequently have no activity level. Hence, coming back to the game fully would cause the system to become imbalanced.

Glo, I love you a lot brother, but there is nothing normal with a medium populated FSP that is still loaded with a bunch of alt accounts! We all know where FSP should be. The state of WvW currently is just really sad.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, gloflop.3510 said:

they are sick of being without a link

This part does suck.  Guilds on Full servers have a harder time recruiting than guilds on open servers.  So when a guild decides to leave to an open server for the health of the guild, the Full server may end up remaining full with less ability to organize a fighting force than other servers.  This is because what remains tends to be the average pug.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:14 AM, Thomas.2564 said:

This indicates that there should high quality tiers? Where are these so called tiers? U talking about t1? Where the mantra is ppt, ppt, ppt, ppt, ppt, then ppt some more, then logout. 

There are 0 good tiers. There are tiers with more players, yes. But even there the quality is WAY below average. Quality has been declining for years now.  Since the builds dont challenge the user anymore. U use to be able to tell good players from bad, but the current builds in wvw do more then 50% of the work for the player. 

It's definitely ppt, farm pugs and queue EBG on one server in T1 ATM sadly.

Too bad the matchmaking, didn't pair wsr and FoW together in T1,  with the current links at least.

Also yeah, player skill level isn't at it's highest, but certainly squads stacked with players from guilds, will win against pug squads. Also stacked meta comps Vs anything slightly different and running builds or classes ineffective besides on arcdps, will lose the majority of fights. The god complex from some of the 'best' players is laughable honestly.

Although there are less open field guilds and even less gvg guilds, quality and quantity wise anyway, there are alot of pugs at least. 

So obviously the current playerbase of players won't be that skilled.

You can compare up to couple of years ago and up to 10 years ago , when there were alot of active WvW, community and proper hardcore gvg guilds too vs these scrim guilds, plus more commanders. There was more of a Community effort, which used to help train pugs, new commanders and even guide them towarda the right builds before, but of course alot of them end up transferring (if they don't quit the game) and different sorts of players, play on alt accounts.

Builds only can do so much aswell, but the content they get to play, is another thing. No farming kills on ebg or one push content, won't improve players especially pugs, when they make a bad movement, a bad dodge or make a bad skill rotation, against more challenging content.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[Rohith.7865]

Let's hope Wsr will be solo again without a link so they can't spawn camp and no ppt for them that server is too much with a link 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Rohith.7865

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Rohith.7865 said:

Let's hope Wsr will be solo again without a link so they can't spawn camp and no ppt for them that server is too much with a link 

... FSP will be linked to WSR. 

It would be typical Anet.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:31 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

So play naturally to keep the quality of the data high.

This sounds like a bedtime story. And Anet knows it well. So much so that it keeps absolute secrecy about the mathematics of its algorithms while at the same time leaving as much space as you want in the manipulated transfer or sub-accounts to manipulate the flow of your server.

I always play honestly the games that Anet offers me. never transferred from my server. Anet should be clear about the numbers my server has available, yet I find myself playing against servers that don't have twice as many players, but more than double. In the eyes of that honest/natural player as you wrote, what should he think? lost credibility. And if I don't see you taking action to improve this lost credibility, what am I to think? mode not even in maintenance? Feel free to help my thoughts.😉

You know what you're supposed to do, a nice extraordinary relink. 24 or 48 hours after the usual relink, since you can monitor the flows (players and hours played) if you find values that suck (because the usual players manipulate what you have built) you make a communication ( Type : Found server with flow over 40% compared to the standard, extraordinary relink today at 20.00 pacific ) and launch the link mechanic. And if that's not enough, you do it again. 🤭

How I'd love to see you do it.

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Chaba.5410]

3 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

This sounds like a bedtime story. And Anet knows it well. So much so that it keeps absolute secrecy about the mathematics of its algorithms while at the same time leaving as much space as you want in the manipulated transfer or sub-accounts to manipulate the flow of your server.

I always play honestly the games that Anet offers me. never transferred from my server. Anet should be clear about the numbers my server has available, yet I find myself playing against servers that don't have twice as many players, but more than double. In the eyes of that honest/natural player as you wrote, what should he think? lost credibility. And if I don't see you taking action to improve this lost credibility, what am I to think? mode not even in maintenance? Feel free to help my thoughts.😉

You know what you're supposed to do, a nice extraordinary relink. 24 or 48 hours after the usual relink, since you can monitor the flows (players and hours played) if you find values that suck (because the usual players manipulate what you have built) you make a communication ( Type : Found server with flow over 40% compared to the standard, extraordinary relink today at 20.00 pacific ) and launch the link mechanic. And if that's not enough, you do it again. 🤭

How I'd love to see you do it.

 

By play naturally, I mean don't change your playtime habits just because you want your server to open up from Full.  Your comment confuses number of players with number of playhours.

[senftube.6081]

WSR is simply a joke. Should never get a link again. And Anet should ban multiaccounts usage in WvW. Because of that also alliance will fail.

[Maria Murtor.7253]

We at Drakkar Lake got the displeasure to "play" against WSR. They are literally holding two servers hostage at the same time for almost the entire week, while spawn camping the home servers and EB. I don't even know why this server has a link.

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

By play naturally, I mean don't change your playtime habits just because you want your server to open up from Full

Yes, I got it right. That's why I tell you it's like telling a fairy tale. simply because the players don't. I've said time and time again that this is a competitive game mode. Large-scale PVP. And if you leave room for this game to be manipulated by the player, rest assured that the player will use it. 

This is evidenced by the fact that I'm playing against a server that has at least twice the flow  of ours. ( Not a little more than I know 10 or 20%, we're talking about twice as much, I don't know if I'm explaining ) The task of development is to control and monitor that the game environment is not manipulated, so as to maintain credible competition. I'm sorry but Anet's passive attitude in a competitive mode like this doesn't get you anywhere. If you see manipulation, you need to take action. Don't sit there and watch such a beautiful game mode, manipulated by some of your users.

My suggestion of extraordinary relinks isn't all that bad. At least you show that you're here, and that you worry about putting things back in their place.😉

Edited December 14, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

And if you leave room for this game to be manipulated by the player, rest assured that the player will use it. 

Well, yes.  And?

Everyone is quick to blame Anet for this situation yet if you agree that competitive players are always going to seek some way to gain an advantage against their opponents, the blame game becomes absurd.

The iterations in design by the dev should be towards mitigating the impact to fairness.  Designers put in systems of choices with incentives and disincentives.  The disincentive here is you get a boring week where you own everything.  Designers can never get fully ahead of human ingenuity.

WR will mitigate a lot that happens under this current system.

[Mabi black.1824]

18 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Everyone is quick to blame Anet for this situation yet if you agree that competitive players are always going to seek some way to gain an advantage against their opponents, the blame game becomes absurd.

And whose job would it be to check that things are in order here? How about getting transfers under control? How about fixing the problem of 3 'different'' servers in EU? How about you can reset the links if the flows are really terrible? How about applying a flow coefficient to our scoring system? at least those who have less see it clearly and benefit from it. How about lowering the limit from 70 to 60 players on the map? In this way, we stimulate the redistribution of players. etc etc.

It's not a question of blame. Here we can only show the way, provide feedback and suggestions. The goal is to keep this game mode at a high level. the top. where you see space thinking about occupying it and improving it, compared to where we are now. Besides, has anyone here asked to delete the servers? Has anyone suggested that we overlook communities or the possibility of forming communities? Someone may have asked to be used as a random filler?

Was all this happening before I landed on this forum? I'm getting more and more lost 😉

Edited December 15, 2023 by Mabi black.1824