all the copers have moved to the new fotm, hammer DH [Merged]

[EnderzShadow.2506]

18 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Metabattle hasn't followed the last 3 patches, they're behind, relic selections suck too 

Ok so I've used the Metabattle example a number of times and I guess that reasoning doesn't work. Fair enough, point taken.

So for sheer sake of discussion, why does Dragon Hunter do so well in this meta?
Is it because they made changes to DH?

Or is it because of everything changing around the DH? Like less hard counters etc

 

[Eddie.9143]

1 hour ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

Ok so I've used the Metabattle example a number of times and I guess that reasoning doesn't work. Fair enough, point taken.

So for sheer sake of discussion, why does Dragon Hunter do so well in this meta?
Is it because they made changes to DH?

Or is it because of everything changing around the DH? Like less hard counters etc

 

Because their damage is so high it only takes 2 attacks to 1 shot most people, so if you have a lapse in aegis, or invuln, and take a big crit while in test of faith you insta die.

 

So if you're a Mesmer you can survive with invulns and 2 distortions and 6 mirrors, eles can survive with focus earth 5, but after that they're open to a 2 shot

 The Meta is always evolving, for right now they're doing well against condi, and winning a lot of trades vs power. That's all it really boils down to, along with lots of aegis and invuln 

[Arheundel.6451]

45 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Because their damage is so high it only takes 2 attacks to 1 shot most people, so if you have a lapse in aegis, or invuln, and take a big crit while in test of faith you insta die.

 

So if you're a Mesmer you can survive with invulns and 2 distortions and 6 mirrors, eles can survive with focus earth 5, but after that they're open to a 2 shot

 The Meta is always evolving, for right now they're doing well against condi, and winning a lot of trades vs power. That's all it really boils down to, along with lots of aegis and invuln 

It's not the burst the problem and you know that..everybody knows it's not the burst the problem....it's the way the burst is delivered. The way guardian burst works, has been nerfed or removed from other professions and that boils down to Justice's Intervention, all sorts of things have been said to defend this...nothing holds water, the fact remains that this utility allows for unhealthy gameplay, the same one nerfed multiple times on other professions because ...."leaves no time to react?!" .

Teleport+ DMG/CC

1. Nerfed teleport hammer burst on Untamed, despite being harder to pull, it was instant but still harder than any guardian burst..nerfed
2. Nerfed sword+steal on thief....cheesy that full deserved the nerf
3. Nerfed the phoenix+teleport on ele...by increasing travel time of phoenix and dmg on blast1...along with all other insta bursts

The question remains: why teleport burst is still allowed on guardian? 

Enough with all the "telegraphed" BS talk....any chipmunk can start loading a longbow 2 from behind a wall and JI on your sorry head when you're engaged, takes zero effort to do so. And based on same principle, other professions got nerfed..but guardian should get a pass...because

[EnderzShadow.2506]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's not the burst the problem and you know that..everybody knows it's not the burst the problem....it's the way the burst is delivered. The way guardian burst works, has been nerfed or removed from other professions and that boils down to Justice's Intervention, all sorts of things have been said to defend this...nothing holds water, the fact remains that this utility allows for unhealthy gameplay, the same one nerfed multiple times on other professions because ...."leaves no time to react?!" .

Teleport+ DMG/CC

1. Nerfed teleport hammer burst on Untamed, despite being harder to pull, it was instant but still harder than any guardian burst..nerfed
2. Nerfed sword+steal on thief....cheesy that full deserved the nerf
3. Nerfed the phoenix+teleport on ele...by increasing travel time of phoenix and dmg on blast1...along with all other insta bursts

The question remains: why teleport burst is still allowed on guardian? 

Enough with all the "telegraphed" BS talk....any chipmunk can start loading a longbow 2 from behind a wall and JI on your sorry head when you're engaged, takes zero effort to do so. And based on same principle, other professions got nerfed..but guardian should get a pass...because

Bro,  you are making too much sense. At least rage a little XD
I'll know its really you haha

Thanks bud, that was explained well.

[Eddie.9143]

Hammer 5 teleport is mad degen. 

[Saiyan.1704]

11 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's not the burst the problem and you know that..everybody knows it's not the burst the problem....it's the way the burst is delivered. The way guardian burst works, has been nerfed or removed from other professions and that boils down to Justice's Intervention, all sorts of things have been said to defend this...nothing holds water, the fact remains that this utility allows for unhealthy gameplay, the same one nerfed multiple times on other professions because ...."leaves no time to react?!" .

Teleport+ DMG/CC

1. Nerfed teleport hammer burst on Untamed, despite being harder to pull, it was instant but still harder than any guardian burst..nerfed
2. Nerfed sword+steal on thief....cheesy that full deserved the nerf
3. Nerfed the phoenix+teleport on ele...by increasing travel time of phoenix and dmg on blast1...along with all other insta bursts

The question remains: why teleport burst is still allowed on guardian? 

Enough with all the "telegraphed" BS talk....any chipmunk can start loading a longbow 2 from behind a wall and JI on your sorry head when you're engaged, takes zero effort to do so. And based on same principle, other professions got nerfed..but guardian should get a pass...because

Out of all the complaints, i'm surprised Judges Intervention is one of them lol. Some DH's dont even take Longbow or Judges...

If you nerf Guard's main engagement skill then go ahead and nerf Necro's disengagement worm port too or is that not the same? Maybe you just don't want the incredibly SLOW DH spec to catch up to anyone at all?

Trust me it isn't Judges that is killing yall <gold1 players. It's the fact you don't know how to counter a very telegraphed, 0 defensive Longbow weapon. You see them precast trueshot, you dodge even IF they waste a port to get in your face when using it. The cast time never changes.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Eddie.9143]

43 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Out of all the complaints, i'm surprised Judges Intervention is one of them lol. Some DH's dont even take Longbow or Judges...

If you nerf Guard's main engagement skill then go ahead and nerf Necro's disengagement worm port too or is that not the same? Maybe you just don't want the incredibly SLOW DH spec to catch up to anyone at all?

Trust me it isn't Judges that is killing yall <gold1 players. It's the fact you don't know how to counter a very telegraphed, 0 defensive Longbow weapon. You see them precast trueshof, you dodge even IF they waste a port to get in your face when using it. The cast time never changes.

Watched you get clapped multiple times by a DH last night. FFA isn't private, we can all witness the whoopings

[pukish.5784]

I love dragonhunter and this game's guardian mechanics. Warrior mechanics is also really good.

Hope some other new MMOs will copy them.

[Myror.7521]

@EnderzShadow.2506 DH is meta rn cause of DE. Like no class could realy pressure that spec aside just thiefs themself. The reason is simply the ones @Arheundel.6451 said. 

Aside this.... The meta is always how it is cause of one or two classes been too strong into something. In the current meta its just warr and druid take side node and holding them as long as they can. Means you need something to pressure them out off tha node (plus one by DE) or simply clap them in Seconds (scrapper). Since this is just a very projectile Spam meta you wana just Play anti projectile as a support.... in other word core Guardian. But also the new relic that take condi to heal 50% less is also realy punishing in group and against current side nodes so condi reaper is also sort of a thing rn.

Thats why the meta would be something Like:

Core Guardian (Support)

Grenade Scrapper (Teamfight/plus one)

Deadeye (plus one/ decap)

Condi-Berserker (Sidenode)

Power- Bladesworn (Sidenode)

Druid (Sidenode)

Condi-Reaper (Teamfight)

Power DH (plus one/Team fight)

Condi- Specter (plus one/ decap)

Power-Daredevil (plus one/ decap)

Edited December 30, 2023 by Myror.7521

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Watched you get clapped multiple times by a DH last night. FFA isn't private, we can all witness the whoopings

in FFA dh is annoying though then in 5v5 and are easier to be handled by group imo.

Doesn't change the fact that it poorly balanced on really high numbers for 1 shots alone and besides that's is more meh. And because of the defensive buffs they can get more away with such stuff, which is a band aid on unsolved problem of them.

1 funny example in 5v5 if I just burst down a dh from ranged with hammer on rev, while he is occupied with trying to get an ally down. I can basicly have quickness on, impossible odds, Field of the mists attack with the rest auto attacking and he dies.

[Kuya.6495]

So did DH damage get buffed or what? Everyone is tossing around different reasons Why DH is a problem but no concensus on what that problem is besides 'big damage make me sad'.

 

Hell, someone in here even said and I kid you not, the problem is judge's intervention. A utility that has been in the game for over a decade and somehow that is the reason DH is suddenly good again? Come on.

[arazoth.7290]

9 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

So did DH damage get buffed or what? Everyone is tossing around different reasons Why DH is a problem but no concensus on what that problem is besides 'big damage make me sad'

Every trap has gotten aegis if traited and some trap sime other defensive boons. + some longbow offensive change in the good way.

That's as far as I can remember, don't ask me which names, I don't play guard to remember them all

[Kuya.6495]

42 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Every trap has gotten aegis if traited and some trap sime other defensive boons. + some longbow offensive change in the good way.

That's as far as I can remember, don't ask me which names, I don't play guard to remember them all

I know about the aegis on trap change but no one seems to be complaining about aegis. I'll look up notes again but I don't recall a longbow buff, especially not in the damage territory. 

[Saiyan.1704]

7 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Watched you get clapped multiple times by a DH last night. FFA isn't private, we can all witness the whoopings

Who cares about destroying afk players in the pit? 🤣💀💀

Imagine using the pit as a measurement of skill.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I know about the aegis on trap change but no one seems to be complaining about aegis. I'll look up notes again but I don't recall a longbow buff, especially not in the damage territory. 

I have been hearing from many dh's about a longbow change, then I have no idea why they say it 😂.

Eitherway, most complain about something but don't know what specific.

In short, in ffa they are annoying but in 5v5 till now allright.

It's easier for them to survive now after stealth relic is removed again y. But idk if straight up putting aegis was the best idea for giving them more sustain. On the brightside, arena net tries to solve some problems recently more and I hope they keep it up overall.

[Kuya.6495]

21 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I have been hearing from many dh's about a longbow change, then I have no idea why they say it 😂.

Eitherway, most complain about something but don't know what specific.

In short, in ffa they are annoying but in 5v5 till now allright.

It's easier for them to survive now after stealth relic is removed again y. But idk if straight up putting aegis was the best idea for giving them more sustain. On the brightside, arena net tries to solve some problems recently more and I hope they keep it up overall.

I checked the November 28 patch:

 

No changes to longbow.  Changes to aegis on trap use aside, the only other thing I could see that helped dh was the buff to hammer (but that's good for all guardian builds) and the new trait redemption which I could see being good on dh since f3 blocks while you can continue to deal damage and regain your health but, once again, people seem to be complaining the most about higher damage and there appear to be no damage buffs specific to dh. 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Saiyan.1704]

13 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Because their damage is so high it only takes 2 attacks to 1 shot most people, so if you have a lapse in aegis, or invuln, and take a big crit while in test of faith you insta die.

 

So if you're a Mesmer you can survive with invulns and 2 distortions and 6 mirrors, eles can survive with focus earth 5, but after that they're open to a 2 shot

 The Meta is always evolving, for right now they're doing well against condi, and winning a lot of trades vs power. That's all it really boils down to, along with lots of aegis and invuln 

The last time there was a change to LB's damage was in February of 2020 and it was a nerf lol.

I've attempted to pull Scrappers/Holo's into my ToF and guess what... it fails. Because it is very telegraphed and these Plat Engi players I go up against are actually good.

The toxic Aegis trap spamming, 0 mobility, node camping DH build plays like a side-noder Warrior except DH has more hard counters. The LB DH burst build variant plays like a roamer except Engi Holo/Scrapper does that role better.

I'm trying to find where this QQ is coming from and.... some one listed Judges Intervention Lol. The mods needs to change the thread name to, "Issues with DH in Low Gold Rank".

[Eddie.9143]

3 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Who cares about destroying afk players in the pit? 🤣💀💀

Imagine using the pit as a measurement of skill.

Lol okay bucko 🤣 

[Brokensunday.4098]

lets remove trapper runes to fix dh....... oh wait, people you just need to react dh place traps range him he pulls you stun break u get on traps dodge out stab out port out invul etc dh is mostly a free kill  vs most clasess.

[Eddie.9143]

On 12/31/2023 at 10:42 PM, Brokensunday.4098 said:

lets remove trapper runes to fix dh....... oh wait, people you just need to react dh place traps range him he pulls you stun break u get on traps dodge out stab out port out invul etc dh is mostly a free kill  vs most clasess.

Bro could you imagine if trapper rune came back rn... Omg broken 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

GW2 can be described as a good PvP game that unfortunately has a short list of mechanics that have zero reason to exist in any competitive format.

What we are seeing is yet another example in the loooooooooooooooooooooong list of examples of the conclusion of Anet nerfing around stupidly designed mechanics instead of fixing them. This actually makes the stupid mechanics stronger since other things have been nerfed, in other words Anets balance decisions result in monkey-mechanics being buffed by neglect since the monkey mechanics are never addressed. The lead devs have proven themselves for whatever reason unable to accept the fact that this is why the PvP game modes never really take off and GW2 PvP remains a niche mode with low population.

One of these badly designed mechanics is that the vast majority of unblockable skills in this game have absolutely no business whatsoever being so, combined with skills that are also unevadeable in addition is a recipe for braindead uninteractive gameplay that is entirely APM based instead of skill. Why bait dodges and blocks when you can just play a build where you press 12345 and it just ignores defensive maneuvers entirely? ook ook ah eee eee eee.

 It was really only a matter of time before this terrible balance strategy resulted in a spec whose entire shtick is to spam unblockable/unevadeable combos became meta.

Edited January 5 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Buran.3796]

    I don't understand how people can have troubles with DH...   They removed the stealth runes + quickness and in order to get the burst they need to devote most of their skills to traps, and you only need to avoid the F1 to counter the whole plan for the next 20 seconds. Hasn't been a DH in the MATs for years, and in Conquest I feel like they are entirely overrated (one of those one trick pony builds you can defeat even if the player is more skilled than you). 

[Kuya.6495]

I can relate to OP now. I was destroyed today by a DH while playing tempest. God was that annoying. I was this 👌 close to calling for nerfs before I decided to blame my teammates instead like a normal spvper. 😌

Edited January 6 by Kuya.6495

[Bunbury.8472]

FIGHT ON POINT NOOBS

 

WHY ARE THERE TRAPS ON POINT

 

IM DYYYIIIINNNGGGG

 

REEEEE

 

FIGHT ON POINT NOOBS

 

DUMB DH OP OP

[pukish.5784]

Probably newbs who doesn't know HoT era, and newbs who doesn't know old specs are complaining DH atm.

DH is just a scapegoat. Fire Weaver OP! Shield Chrono OP! Core Necro OP! will be happen in the future.