I have mixed feelings about SOTO [Merged]

[Elena.8734]

12 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

lol, group content in GW2 isn't easy to access, it's 2024 and there isn't a que or group finder for their dungeons and fractals you think FFXIV and WoW players who are used to getting instant groups or queing up for them from a menu will put up with the old as dirt time consuming LFG system in GW2?

It's not hard to access neither once you understand the proper way to make a group by yourself. You can fill any group for instanced content in a matter of seconds. The playerbase for those activities exist, but most players just don't make the move to create their own group. To be fair, the biggest part of the problem come from the fact that the Commander Tag isn't very accessible to a new player. It's the single best upgrade you can buy to upgrade your account, but it cost 300 gold, which require to understand and play the game for a while to get this much of disposable income (a couple of days for an experienced player, but probably a couple of years for a new casual one), and without it, making and leading a group is kind of a pain. This should be addressed.

But in a world where we got Wow Classic 2019 and where Wow players regularly use the same kind of LFG system than GW2 for any content over Normal/Heroic dungeon and LFR Raids, i really don't think your claim about this is right. Yes, maybe there's  a bigger step to make as a FF14 player, but LFG like that isn't a new or an enigmatic system for most MMO players (still, there is too many tabs for it own good and it could easily be made clearer by removing a bunch of useless tabs).

12 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

Also 98% of the player base in FFXIV doesn't bother with midcore or hardcore raiding which is Savage and Ultimate they do the easy 24/8 man group content and the story dungeons for their dailies. 

Then most Normal strikes and even raids could be easily done by them. They have the interest in it (they do 24/8), and sincerely, those activities are not hard neither. But the facts are:

• Anet do not advertise their instanced content, which result in most player not even knowing it exist.
• There is an abusive Gatekeep in those activities, from the community (Requirements in 50-150+ LI or KP) as well as the game (commander tag costing 300gold).
• As result, even the playerbase that knows it exist but never tried it because of one of the two walls think that those content are so hard they should not even try to get into it.
• The rewards from strikes and raids are not clear (/cool) enough to make the playerbase ask how they could get those.

The fixs to most of those problem, aside the Gatekeeping from community are pretty easy in perspective:

As you said...

12 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

Mount/Glamour/minion collectors

This is what's missing in those activities to Grab player into trying them or at least helping players to project themself into trying them, which is the first step most player never ever do in GW2. Old lion Court and Soto strikes weapon skins are a step in the right direction, but much more should be done in that regard and it should be advertised as ''prestigious'' rewards on social medias and in their patch announcements. Don't expect players to bump into a random NPC hidden in a corner of the main city to know those rewards exist, most won't.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I did managed to get through that Gatekeeping wall a while ago (honestly by lying about requirements i did not have). Getting into it makes you question those practice from the community. Since then, i've made this investment of getting the Commander Tag, that was previously not as required since mentor tag did the job in most cases in Open World, and create my groups daily without requirements. Weirdly enough, the content is easily done, even when there's players with no experience or underDPSing in the group, flawlessly most of the time. I understand  not wanting to struggle, but the reality is that aside Old Lion Court (CC/NotCC must be known) and Boneskinner (when your healers struggle) there's no normal strike that require any kind of skills over knowing you should stack with your Commander  and get away when you're targeted by an AOE. Raids are a little more touchy-ish, but really, when you're running raids in other MMO's, it's not hard to figure out.

Really, this content should be run by more people. Thinking it's hard in result of the Gatekeeping or not knowing it even exist are the real problems causing this content to not be run more regularly.

Edited January 19 by Elena.8734

[Phyb.6704]

13 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

lol, group content in GW2 isn't easy to access, it's 2024 and there isn't a que or group finder for their dungeons and fractals you think FFXIV and WoW players who are used to getting instant groups or queing up for them from a menu will put up with the old as dirt time consuming LFG system in GW2? Anet needs to invest in making their group content instantly accessible or people will not waste their time on it. 

Also 98% of the player base in FFXIV doesn't bother with midcore or hardcore raiding which is Savage and Ultimate they do the easy 24/8 man group content and the story dungeons for their dailies. 

GW2 CAN grab the casual FFXIV player though, the ones that run world boss Hunt trains, make Relic weapons for each job including crafters, achievement hunters, Eureaka and Bozja enthusiast, Mount/Glamour/minion collectors, FFXIV players would love the Map meta grind. Anet doesn't market their game to FFXIV casuals, they need to. 

GW2 needs to introduce their game systems better in general, new people need to have objectives to reach besides get to 80

 

The trope system is way different then any other mmorpg. Wow, ff14, eso and I could name many other games that follow the tank, heal, dps, support trope. Gw2 does not really do that so what works for others will not always work for gw2. This also makes it less popular in general IMO.
The lfg sytstem is how it is because the majority of content is open world and zones have layers to avoid over population and lag. 
The lack of the tank,heal,dps, support trope means having a system where you que up for a job does not work. You could have a couple hybrid builds and then the rest dps. You could have 1 dedicated barrier scourge and the rest dps. You could have a barrier scourge and a hybrid dps herald for boons and then the rest dps. The comp of the different jobs in a group is not set in stone like in other mmorpg so a que system doesn't work. It's different then ff14, wow and eso. All of those have specific jobs and group comp. Gw2 does not.
The truth is gw2 will not get anyone that enjoys playing dedicated tanks and heals unless they are open to hybrid support and dps. It will be very rare and you will generally be dps or a hybrid support to pump quickness or alac. 
I do like playing tank but I also like hybrid support so I can still have fun. Even then I stuggle at times to find a build I enjoy after a big nerf bat destroys tons of builds like at the start of EoD and then the start of Soto.

[Elena.8734]

36 minutes ago, ohericoseo.4316 said:

The truth is gw2 will not get anyone that enjoys playing dedicated tanks and heals unless they are open to hybrid support and dps.

I'm not quite sure about that. I personnally do play full Aheal currently and i have far more fun than i had in pure DPS cause there's so few dedicated healers that i feel i'm very useful in Metas or even of Rifts (so people can slack as they like to DPS). Furthermore, the harder Metas/Strikes/Raid i do became more successful since i've swap from DPS to Full Heal (i Can solo heal pretty much every strike aside Boneskinner and DS). I remember as well leveling my Warrior with a shield, assuming i would tank (this is laughable now that i know the game much better).

To be honest, the reason we don't have tanks in the game is more a matter that they're not required than the fact the role do not exist. There's traits and weapons clearly designed for tanks in mind. There is just not enough damage on the character who tank a boss to justify having one, especially when you have hybrid supports or DPS with a lot of defensive (My friend play reaper and always keep aggro, so he pretty much tank with his veil and it's far than enough). There would be people who would tank if there was a reason to. As it is, not DPSing while you tank is just reducing DPS on boss without any benefit in term of group survival.

I dont think a queue would work well neither, but even tho some roles are useless they still exist, even tho nobody play them out of absolute necessity. But assuming they would do this kind of system, it would be possible to hook roles to things like ''Do you have a trait to provide this boon?'' Or ''Do you have a trait that taunt and more than X Toughness''.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Yes they do..they've been desperately trying to be FFXIV since EoD.

The issue is they are seemingly aiming at the more hardcore (not the more casual) part of the FF XIV community.

[FattyLumpkin.3420]

SOTO is this is the first expansion that has not inspired me to invest more time. I'm about to take a break from GW2 because I found it uninspiring. I also do not like the live service feel of releasing so much content over time. I'm uninterested. I'm definitely not interesting in grinding, even though I usually love doing it. Sure, there is a lot to like. But, just as GW2 seemed to be improving again it's suddenly backsliding (for me). I'll revisit it but reordering is probably a thing of the past for me. SOTO has many high points but for me it is the weakest, least innovated content GW2 has released.

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, FattyLumpkin.3420 said:

SOTO is this is the first expansion that has not inspired me to invest more time. I'm about to take a break from GW2 because I found it uninspiring. I also do not like the live service feel of releasing so much content over time. I'm uninterested. I'm definitely not interesting in grinding, even though I usually love doing it. Sure, there is a lot to like. But, just as GW2 seemed to be improving again it's suddenly backsliding (for me). I'll revisit it but reordering is probably a thing of the past for me. SOTO has many high points but for me it is the weakest, least innovated content GW2 has released.

Dang so now SotO release so much content?

wherer is that content I cant see it in the updates.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 1/19/2024 at 5:32 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

The issue is they are seemingly aiming at the more hardcore (not the more casual) part of the FF XIV community.

How do you figure?  Open world grinding = hardcore?  Or is it the two whole strike bosses they released?  What's hardcore about SotO?

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

How do you figure?  Open world grinding = hardcore?  Or is it the two whole strike bosses they released?  What's hardcore about SotO?

This.

Ive yet to see anything in SotO that would qualify as hardcore. OW metas, where some report a boss that doesnt really fight back? Rifts?  Access to legendary armor without having to do any form of PvP or instanced content? 

I am not faulting the content here, but the idea that this expac caters to hardcore players is a bit off.

[Elena.8734]

6 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I am not faulting the content here, but the idea that this expac caters to hardcore players is a bit off.

Imagine how casual a FF14 player must be if the expac caters to their most hardcore players. In a way I understand what he means. FF14 has what they call Relic Weapons that are what's the closest you can get to a Legendary weapon grind in FF14 and is considered to be one of the most time consuming thing a player can do in this game. In a way, it's the same concept than Aurene's Legendaries with a skin for each Xpac (instead of each patch). 

The Legendary armour being at the core of every content in Soto, i can see the obvious comparison. Still, in a way, this is a pretty softcore grind from a GW2 player point of view, while it's considered prestigious in FF14 as it's the pinnacle of what a non high end raider can aspire to.

[Fueki.4753]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

How do you figure?

The ongoing changes that some people feel like they are trying to bend the game to fit best for specific high end builds that they picked from websites may be part of the reasons people feel like it's getting closer to FF14. From what I glimpsed about these kinds builds have specific rotations to perform well, with little deviation allowed. In my experience, top end FF14 also often expects you to perform a rigged, set-in-stone rotation.

Another reason may be the continuous homogenisation of the professions. Unique effects are mostly gone. Every profession needs to be able to provide Alacrity and Quickness to some capacity. Even the relic system reflects that homogenisation. Most relics now are just boons, conditions or simply number adjustments. Similarly, jobs within one category in FF14 have been streamlined to have similar capabilities (especially the tanks feel quite same-y to me).

Some people also don't like that professions are being shoehorned into fulfilling specific roles now, because the game originally was advertised as being different from that.

So I can understand why some people may think that GW2 gets closer to FF14 around the higher end.

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Or is it the two whole strike bosses they released?

The concept behind strikes definitely feels like it's heavily inspired by FF14's trials. But the concept itself doesn't reflect top end gameplay and didn't come with SotO.

Edited January 21 by Fueki.4753

[kiroho.4738]

49 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The ongoing changes that some people feel like they are trying to bend the game to fit best for specific high end builds that they picked from websites may be part of the reasons people feel like it's getting closer to FF14.

Neither the new Strikes nor the released CM -> the only content where high end builds matters - fit that "feeling".
Soto strikes are the easiest since IBS (which were meant to be a ramp from open world to high end content). And CO CM is the easiest CM that ever existed.

Strike difficulty are known facts. The assumption that Anet tries to make the game fit whatever builds from whatever websites, ist pure speculation.

 

56 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Another reason may be the continuous homogenisation of the professions. Unique effects are mostly gone. Every profession needs to be able to provide Alacrity and Quickness to some capacity.

You may have not been playing long enough, but GW2 was always a game where every class could play any role.
That's was the goal from release on. No role that can only be played by this class, no force to play that class.

Ironically it were Raids (highend content) that changed this.
With Raids we suddenly needed healers and only two classes/specs were able to do that.
Due to Raids we also suddenly had supporters and ofcourse everybody wanted alacrity and quickness, which only one class/spec could provide.

Raids / high end content is what torn the harmony between classes apart. People required classes/specs with ability XY and refused any alternative.
Anet was forced to remove unique effects, because players excluded every class/spec that did not provide one of the good effects. Furthermore when playing a class/spec with such good unique effect, you were forced to play a build that uses the respective trait or to deface your build so you take that trait.
Ever tried to raid as Rev without Assassin's Presence back then? No chance. Playing condi? Take that trait line anyways or leave.
Anet removed these traits because of how players behaved due to them. That's the only reason.

By removing unique effects and giving all classes access to alacrity, quickness and healing, they brought back the harmony between classes.
A game where you are not forced to play a certain class to fulfill a certain role.
Back to how it was at release. Literally back to the roots.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Neither the new Strikes nor the released CM -> the only content where high end builds matters - fit that "feeling".
Soto strikes are the easiest since IBS (which were meant to be a ramp from open world to high end content). And CO CM is the easiest CM that ever existed.

Strike difficulty are known facts. The assumption that Anet tries to make the game fit whatever builds from whatever websites, ist pure speculation.

You may want to look past the scope of just the content that came with the expansion.

The balance changes patches definitely feel likely they are shoehorning professions into specific builds, instead of improving the professions on a general level.

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

You may have not been playing long enough, but GW2 was always a game where every class could play any role.

That's was the goal from release on. No role that can only be played by this class, no force to play that class.

I've been playing since the pre-release, so I know that the aim wasn't to simply play any role, but that you could play any way you liked.

Notably, the latter part gets more put to the side, as changes more and more promote specific ways intended for certain roles.

They certainly are not aiming to make everything viable. There're many traits that simply get ignored, while the changes we get mostly just target the roles they want to iterate on.

For example, in this patch they just nerfed Berserker, because it's role as a quickness provider allegedly did too much damage. But the other parts of Warrior, that actually are in dire need to be looked at and changed, get it ignored.

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Anet was forced to remove unique effects, because players excluded every class/spec that did not provide one of the good effects.

The reasons they did it for don't change the fact that much of the game got streamlined into even more boon vomit, making the professions feel more same-y.

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Ever tried to raid as Rev without Assassin's Presence back then? No chance. Playing condi? Take that trait line anyways or leave.

Anet removed these traits because of how players behaved due to them. That's the only reason.

When you want to play higher end content, you as a player do what's needed to play the content.

However, these are expectation of other players. That doesn't mean the entire game needed to be designed around that.

All professions had always been capable doing all content. A minority of players optimizing their numbers should never have affected the entire player base.

1 hour ago, kiroho.4738 said:

By removing unique effects and giving all classes access to alacrity, quickness and healing, they brought back the harmony between classes.
A game where you are not forced to play a certain class to fulfill a certain role.

Back to how it was at release. Literally back to the roots.

That streamlining that has been directed at top end "issues" ended up affecting the entire game, worsening the experiences of many players who did not partake in said top end content.

By removing unique effects, they removed parts of what makes professions feel unique. By trying to streamline what professions can do, they took away uniqueness and feeling from the professions.

Even considering Elite specializations, the professions never felt as same-y as they do these days. They are literally as far away from the roots as they could possibly feel.

Every profession brought their own things to the table. Every profession had their distinct capabilities and lack of other capabilities. Every profession felt far more distinct to play. That is how it was at the beginning, not professions feeling same-y and just vomiting the same boons. The game literally is further away from the "roots" than it ever was before.

Edited January 21 by Fueki.4753

[kiroho.4738]

16 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

You may want to look past the scope of just the content that came with the expansion.

EoD Strikes aren't that hard either and from their CMs only HT reach a difficulty similar to Raids.
On the long scope after Raid Wing 7 high end content became easier and easier.

 

20 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The balance changes patches definitely feel likely they are shoehorning professions into specific builds, instead of improving the professions on a general level.

You keep saying that, but you don't explain why you think that.
Seems like it's just a purely subjective feeling you have.

 

24 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They certainly are not aiming to make everything viable.

If you payed attention, you would know that this is literally their goal since EoD.

 

25 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For example, in this patch they just nerfed Berserker, because it's role as a quickness provider allegedly did too much damage. But the other parts of Warrior, that actually are in dire need to be looked at and changed, get it ignored.

You know the upcoming patch is only a pretty small balance patch, no?
It's no major balance patch, just a small one inbetween.

In your first sentence you said I should look past the scope of the content of the last expansion.
You should look past the scope of a minor patch.

 

28 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The reasons they did it for don't change the fact that much of the game got streamlined into even more boon vomit, making the professions feel more same-y.

I the players are the reason for that, it changes everything. because you can't blame Anet for anything anymore.

 

30 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

When you want to play higher end content, you as a player do what's needed to play the content.

However, these are expectation of other players. That doesn't mean the entire game needed to be designed around that.

All professions had always been capable doing all content. A minority of players optimizing their numbers should never have affected the entire player base.

You may haven't played during that time, but it was not "a minority of players". You barely found a group when you refused to bring your unique effect.
As I said, take that trait or leave.

Yes it was an expactation of other players, but exactly that was the problem. Not the effects, but how much importance player gave them.

 

35 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

That streamlining that has been directed at top end "issues" ended up affecting the entire game, worsening the experiences of many players who did not partake in said top end content.

Not really, open world is still full of "free style" builds and pvp/wvw has their own balance.

 

36 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

By removing unique effects, they removed parts of what makes professions feel unique. By trying to streamline what professions can do, they took away uniqueness and feeling from the professions.

If you think revenant feels unique by having a trait that gives allies some ferocity, you don't understand what makes a class tick.
And surprise, all "unique effect" traits were just that in the end -> a stat boost. Not that unique after all.

Actual unique skills/effects still remain at the respective class. And I think you know that. Otherwise the stat boost traits wouldn't be your only argument.

 

42 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Even considering Elite specializations, the professions never felt as same-y as they do these days. They are literally as far away from the roots as they could possibly feel

Sorry, but then you do something extremely wrong.
Probably again your purely subjective feeling.

 

44 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Every profession brought their own things to the table. Every profession had their distinct capabilities and lack of other capabilities. Every profession felt far more distinct to play. That is how it was at the beginning, not professions feeling same-y and just vomiting the same boons. The game literally is further away from the "roots" than it ever was before.

It's still like this. The only difference is that you now have to distinct by elite specs instead of classes. That's it.
If you can't do that, it's not the game's fault. On this point the game is closer to their roots than ever before.

[Fueki.4753]

55 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

If you payed attention, you would know that this is literally their goal since EoD.

It's hard to call it their goal to make everything decent, when they ignore obvious and easy stepping stones towards that goal, for example fixing some of the jank and glitches many weapon abilities are infested with. Or polishing up abilities and traits that have been bugged and/or hardly used for over a decade.

But if your definition of "everything" is limited to every profession can kind of fulfil any role Arenanet wants to see in top end content, then I can see how that could fit that goal.

55 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

You may haven't played during that time, but it was not "a minority of players". You barely found a group when you refused to bring your unique effect.

Top end players always are a minority. The vast majority of players in any given game always are the casual players, most of which don't reach (and often don't even try to reach) the top end.

 

Edited January 21 by Fueki.4753

[kiroho.4738]

23 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's hard to call it their goal to make everything decent, when they ignore obvious and easy stepping stones towards that goal, for example fixing some of the jank and glitches many weapon abilities are infested with. Or polishing up abilities and traits that have been bugged and/or hardly used for over a decade.

As a game dev you have a different view on things than you have as a player, you know?
Players are almost never objective when it comes to balancing. They always want the stuff they like to be protected/improved and barely care about stuff that doesn't affect them.
Ofcourse as a player you say "Oh, this change would be so easy and fix a lot", but in reality you don't know much about it.

 

28 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Top end players always are a minority. The vast majority of players in any given game always are the casual players, most of which don't reach (and often don't even try to reach) the top end.

You missed the point...

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The ongoing changes that some people feel like they are trying to bend the game to fit best for specific high end builds that they picked from websites may be part of the reasons people feel like it's getting closer to FF14. From what I glimpsed about these kinds builds have specific rotations to perform well, with little deviation allowed. In my experience, top end FF14 also often expects you to perform a rigged, set-in-stone rotation.

Another reason may be the continuous homogenisation of the professions. Unique effects are mostly gone. Every profession needs to be able to provide Alacrity and Quickness to some capacity. Even the relic system reflects that homogenisation. Most relics now are just boons, conditions or simply number adjustments. Similarly, jobs within one category in FF14 have been streamlined to have similar capabilities (especially the tanks feel quite same-y to me).

Some people also don't like that professions are being shoehorned into fulfilling specific roles now, because the game originally was advertised as being different from that.

So I can understand why some people may think that GW2 gets closer to FF14 around the higher end.

The concept behind strikes definitely feels like it's heavily inspired by FF14's trials. But the concept itself doesn't reflect top end gameplay and didn't come with SotO.

That's the funny thing about your feefees.  They don't need to have any relationship with reality.  The reality is open world builds and LI builds weren't even a thing years ago.  Now ask what you should do if you're a new player struggling to survive in the world and instead of "go zerk or go home" you'll get "Try celestial!"  Likewise if you're a new player and you want to get into raiding but don't want a "simple" 72-step rotation, people will recommend classes and builds that are very easy to play but still perform well (e.g. reaper).  The game has only become more accessible and the community more willing to provide alternatives to the hardcore mentality over the years.

As for SotO, which is what I thought we were talking about before this turned into a discussion of "Things FFXIV does." for whatever reason?  Again, two strikes.  Two dead easy strikes at that.  Where's all this so-called hardcore content?  I'm not seeing it.

[Fueki.4753]

59 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

That's the funny thing about your feefees.  They don't need to have any relationship with reality.  The reality is open world builds and LI builds weren't even a thing years ago.  Now ask what you should do if you're a new player struggling to survive in the world and instead of "go zerk or go home" you'll get "Try celestial!"  Likewise if you're a new player and you want to get into raiding but don't want a "simple" 72-step rotation, people will recommend classes and builds that are very easy to play but still perform well (e.g. reaper).  The game has only become more accessible and the community more willing to provide alternatives to the hardcore mentality over the years.

I just wrote up a few ideas, why some people may think the game becomes closer to FF14.

Whether you agree with these ideas or not is a different manner.

If a new player was to ask me what to do these days, I'd simply tell them to try out the professions and the abilities they have to offer, before looking up any guides or recommendations.

59 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

As for SotO, which is what I thought we were talking about before this turned into a discussion of "Things FFXIV does." for whatever reason?  Again, two strikes.  Two dead easy strikes at that.  Where's all this so-called hardcore content?  I'm not seeing it.

I can't say anything about SotO content, because I haven't paid for that, but I think the sentiment goes further than just the content that is being delivered with each snippet of SotO.

Edited January 21 by Fueki.4753

[kiroho.4738]

48 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I can't say anything about SotO content, because I haven't paid for that

LOL

[WinterBeats.1092]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:59 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Yes they do..they've been desperately trying to be FFXIV since EoD.

They're not visually showcasing any of these systems to the MMO community though, are they? Yoshi P has his Live Letters. Zenimax just had their new ESO chapter presentation. What did Anet do to market Soto? Where is the Dev presence?   

The biggest barrier to keep new players interested outside of leveling is that there is zero guidance or tutorials about the dozens of in-depth game systems. The new play guide literally, says "Use the Mystic Forge" without explaining how it works, what it does, what it EVEN IS.

[WinterBeats.1092]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:36 AM, ohericoseo.4316 said:

 

The trope system is way different then any other mmorpg. Wow, ff14, eso and I could name many other games that follow the tank, heal, dps, support trope. Gw2 does not really do that so what works for others will not always work for gw2. This also makes it less popular in general IMO.
The lfg sytstem is how it is because the majority of content is open world and zones have layers to avoid over population and lag. 
The lack of the tank,heal,dps, support trope means having a system where you que up for a job does not work. You could have a couple hybrid builds and then the rest dps. You could have 1 dedicated barrier scourge and the rest dps. You could have a barrier scourge and a hybrid dps herald for boons and then the rest dps. The comp of the different jobs in a group is not set in stone like in other mmorpg so a que system doesn't work. It's different then ff14, wow and eso. All of those have specific jobs and group comp. Gw2 does not.
The truth is gw2 will not get anyone that enjoys playing dedicated tanks and heals unless they are open to hybrid support and dps. It will be very rare and you will generally be dps or a hybrid support to pump quickness or alac. 
I do like playing tank but I also like hybrid support so I can still have fun. Even then I stuggle at times to find a build I enjoy after a big nerf bat destroys tons of builds like at the start of EoD and then the start of Soto.

And all the game systems in GW2 are complicated with zero tutorials and maybe a FFXIV player will try out GW2 but they won't stick around as its too daunting and frustrating. The professions, builds, multiple stats and gearing in GW2 is extremely confusing and it takes a lot of extra research and effort to figure out as the game doesn't help you at all. With the threat of nerfs to a build too, yeah, not a great jumping off point. 

Add in GW2 lack of lore and impactful world building and disconnect from your character when most FFXIV players are emotionally invested in their character. 

The "elite specs" could have changed that, Anet should have implemented some world building and lore tied to each spec, why can my Mesmer suddenly become a Mirage?  Why didn't Anet add in some quests to attain HP for the new trait lines? 

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

You may haven't played during that time, but it was not "a minority of players". You barely found a group when you refused to bring your unique effect.

As I said, take that trait or leave.

I have played during that time, and was running dungeons quite intensively. On a bearbow, with bad gear (which i didn't really realize was bad at that time), and without spotter, or spirits, or any other group buffs (unique or not). And sometimes on a bunker guardian with no dps whatsoever whose primary "contribution" was that it just didn't die, but would probably have been kicked by anyone playing today (again, without me understanding it was a bad build, and why it was so bad). I never had any issue with finding a group - i just had to mention that i was doing a casual run (no LFG, because it was before that system was made). The group filled fast, sometimes within seconds, sometimes taking maybe a minute or two. And never had i heard any bad comment about my build choices either - even when bearbow became a meme. Notice, that i never had any issues with finishing those dungeons either, it just took a bit longer than with those speedrunner players that did have some requirements (which was balanced, btw, by the time it took those speedrunners to create a group).

If your experience was different, then you probably were only looking for high req group and didn't realize they were a minority and there was a far less restricting (but equally succesful) world of options outside.

[WinterBeats.1092]

GW2's way for finding group content doesn't meet the industry standard. It's not about being hard, it's about being accessible to new players without having to jump through hoops or tab out and do a google search to find out what they need to. People will just not bother as they have a finite time to devote to gaming, and don't want to spend it googling. 

 

[Shiyo.3578]

4 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

They're not visually showcasing any of these systems to the MMO community though, are they? Yoshi P has his Live Letters. Zenimax just had their new ESO chapter presentation. What did Anet do to market Soto? Where is the Dev presence?   

The biggest barrier to keep new players interested outside of leveling is that there is zero guidance or tutorials about the dozens of in-depth game systems. The new play guide literally, says "Use the Mystic Forge" without explaining how it works, what it does, what it EVEN IS.

The director has been MIA since a month after EoD.

They make PR  announcements and random devs talk in streamers chat. No other dev interaction.

[WinterBeats.1092]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

The director has been MIA since a month after EoD.

They make PR  announcements and random devs talk in streamers chat. No other dev interaction.

That's a real shame. 

[ronkul.1320]

6 hours ago, WinterBeats.1092 said:

And all the game systems in GW2 are complicated with zero tutorials and maybe a FFXIV player will try out GW2 but they won't stick around as its too daunting and frustrating. The professions, builds, multiple stats and gearing in GW2 is extremely confusing and it takes a lot of extra research and effort to figure out as the game doesn't help you at all. With the threat of nerfs to a build too, yeah, not a great jumping off point. 

Add in GW2 lack of lore and impactful world building and disconnect from your character when most FFXIV players are emotionally invested in their character. 

The "elite specs" could have changed that, Anet should have implemented some world building and lore tied to each spec, why can my Mesmer suddenly become a Mirage?  Why didn't Anet add in some quests to attain HP for the new trait lines? 

I think that the world building for elite specs could have been done but those elite specs quests would probably have optional because the playerbase is more function or form in regards to quickly getting the right builds/gear to participate in harder game activities. Maybe those elite spec quests could have been mandatory for the first character to have that specific elite spec for quickly teaching how the elite spec works and its strengths, weaknesses, and functions for new players?