DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 15 hours ago, LSD.4673 said: But the point is that fantasy is all derived from the real world. Where did GW2 get its ranger concept from? WoW; and they pretty obviously got it from DnD; and they quite clearly got it from Tolkien. So where did a guy obsessed with history and nature get his inspiration? Hmm... " Gw2 ranger concept is from Wow. " Bruh. ☠️ It's 2 days into 2024. Maybe don't try to pull all the none sense so early. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said: That word does not mean what you think it means. 2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: "What is the full meaning of ranger? ranger. /ˈreɪn·dʒər/ a person whose job is to care for or protect a forest, park, or public lands. (Definition of ranger from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press)." Took me 5 seconds to Google it. The best part about the Longbow or no Longbow problem with Ranger is that running Longbow instead of Hammer on Soulbeast is like 1k less damage only, in most cases that won't even be noticable. BAITed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Because Hammer is fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSD.4673 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: " Gw2 ranger concept is from Wow. " Bruh. ☠️ It's 2 days into 2024. Maybe don't try to pull all the none sense so early. C'mon, even a cursory glance at the reveals in 2012 pretty clearly demonstrated their whole plan was "its like wow but with a twist". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The in-game description, during character creation, says: "Favors Ranged" As a ranger main, I don't side with the profession being solely ranged. I disagree with the premise of this thread that rangers are a "melee profession". I use both ranged and melee depending on the situation and the pet that is currently in use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) On 1/1/2024 at 8:43 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: People's complaints that Ranger(or any profession similiar to it should be ranged is thrown out the window considering even WoW allows a Hunter to run around with a staff bashing people And don't forget that Blizzard even deleted one of Hunter's ranged specializations to make space for a melee specialization. Sometimes, I still miss my ranged Survival Hunter. Edited January 2 by Fueki.4753 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: And don't forget that Blizzard even deleted one of Hunter's ranged specializations to make space for a melee specialization. Sometimes, I still miss my ranged Survival Hunter. I only really liked Marksmanship, because that was the only Hunter that was similiar to my GW1 and GW2 Ranger playstyle. The weird thing about the melee complaint about Ranger is that other than dagger, sword, GS and hammer every option Ranger has is ranged, even Staff, which rivals bows and rifles in terms of range. 4 hours ago, LSD.4673 said: C'mon, even a cursory glance at the reveals in 2012 pretty clearly demonstrated their whole plan was "its like wow but with a twist". Ranger themed so much after WoW's Hunter it shares skills, skill types, traitlines, weapons and profession mechanics with Ranger from GW1. Edited January 2 by IAmNotMatthew.1058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Ranger means range the land not ranged weapons. Old mmo rangers where each class only used one weapon often got stuck with bow as the game needed a ranged character and bow suit rangers and staff mages. Famous rangers from fantasy that use melee over bow.....aragorn used swords, drizzt used dual Sabres, mooshie or montolio who trained drizzt in the ways of the ranger mostly used sword and shield and had his ranger crest on both. Uve also got John snow from game of thrones who used swords. Rangers are competent with multiple weapons ie sword, shield, dagger, bows and even spears, generally combat AND hunting weapons and tools ud use while surviving on the land and its harsh environments. Thinking of ranger as just a archer is a huge disservice to the archetype as its so much more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Aragorn had a bow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Levetty.1279 said: Aragorn had a bow Yes, but it wasn't his primary weapon. He's like a D&D martial character that has all of his feats and class options invested into melee, but carries a bow because it's good to have the option. Rangers in fantasy can be either ranged or melee specialists, and ranger is one of the best professions in the game for playing ranged. In fact, unlike many professions, it's hard to find a meta ranger build, even in raids, that is purely melee - those that aren't using one of the bows are usually using axe mainhand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 28 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said: Aragorn had a bow Yeah so did drizzt which he gave away to brie eventually. rangers use bows and no one is saying they don't, they are saying it is just one of many weapons they use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oahkahmewolf.6210 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) In the thematic sense of things, This argument doesn't really just occur here but in other forums , threads, games and ect area of the world. Depending on the few point, can be seen at multiple perspective. Tropes/archetype and w/e else you want to call it really depends on the setting and where its bias is from, So in very nice tone, no one is wrong. But in more serious tone, there isn't the only ranger, , a ranger can use whatever it wants as long as it fulfill certain definition of a ranger. Ranger generally adapted to nature, and can be seen using multitude of weapons from your iconic bow, to hatchets , dagger or sword, hell even a god dam spear or club if it so fits to the person combat style. Rangers come in many flavor but their sole objective is to tread the lands, survive off of it, be attuned with nature itself and be its guardian, and live off the land rather than living within civilization. Yeah sure people might complain, "how does a great-sword, hammer or even sword and dagger related to rangers" Well they're not regulated to solely ranger as that would put them at a disadvantage if some got into their face and said hello. How much time would you have, to pull an arrow and release it before that animal or wild beast take a swipe at you, there's a reason why rangers carry a backup weapon such as a dagger or even a sword, they need to fight CQC (close quarter combat) when it calls for it. Range is ironic because weapon of choice they use for hunting, but same could be said for a spear which can be both used in melee and range. Great-sword can be an alternative to sword when you really want to take down those bigger beasts of the woods, same thing for hammer if you really want to flavor it into a wooden mallet or club. Hatchets are generally known to be used to chop wood and cut through branches, as sword typical have few purposes like cutting through tall grass or weed. Dagger are used for skinning the animal and gutting it out, what about the staff? well staffs are weapons that druid use which can still be considered a type of ranger, it still falls under the ranger type due to its role of guardian and tending to the land but instead of hunting and living in the land, it essentially learns to be with one with the nature, living in it in the spiritual sense. Torch I don't even need to explain this. Horn can be seen in a few ways, horns in nature were design in couple of ways but I bet you anything as a survivalist it can be used to ether lure animals into position or scare of predators of a terrible screeching sound... kitten can vary but tribes used death whistle made with animal parts and same with animal whistle calls. Oh I'd like mention Napping as an art of making knives and spears, that a pretty ranger thing to do when you are surviving in the wild. This argument can go on forever which ever weapon rangers are delegated to, but I don't care because Guild wars 2 vision there ranger to be this way in their world and in their setting. Whether or not inspirations were drawn from other games or table top, its not forced into the "golden perspective of it has to be X or else its wrong" Mentality. So #$%^&* you I want to be a hammer/sword horn ranger and enjoy eating my shiny metal mallet. Edited January 3 by Oahkahmewolf.6210 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said: In the thematic sense of things, This argument doesn't really just occur here but in other forums , threads, games and ect area of the world. Depending on the few point, can be seen at multiple perspective. Tropes/archetype and w/e else you want to call it really depends on the setting and where its bias is from, So in very nice tone, no one is wrong. But in more serious tone, there isn't the only ranger, , a ranger can use whatever it wants as long as it fulfill certain definition of a ranger. Ranger generally adapted to nature, and can be seen using multitude of weapons from your iconic bow, to hatchets , dagger or sword, hell even a god dam spear or club if it so fits to the person combat style. Rangers come in many flavor but their sole objective is to tread the lands, survive off of it, be attuned with nature itself and be its guardian, and live off the land rather than living within civilization. Yeah sure people might complain, "how does a great-sword, hammer or even sword and dagger related to rangers" Well they're not regulated to solely ranger as that would put them at a disadvantage if some got into their face and said hello. How much time would you have, to pull an arrow and release it before that animal or wild beast take a swipe at you, there's a reason why rangers carry a backup weapon such as a dagger or even a sword, they need to fight CQC (close quarter combat) when it calls for it. Range is ironic because weapon of choice they use for hunting, but same could be said for a spear which can be both used in melee and range. Great-sword can be an alternative to sword when you really want to take down those bigger beasts of the woods, same thing for hammer if you really want to flavor it into a wooden mallet or club. Hatchets are generally known to be used to chop wood and cut through branches, as sword typical have few purposes like cutting through tall grass or weed. Dagger are used for skinning the animal and gutting it out, what about the staff? well staffs are weapons that druid use which can still be considered a type of ranger, it still falls under the ranger type due to its role of guardian and tending to the land but instead of hunting and living in the land, it essentially learns to be with one with the nature, living in it in the spiritual sense. Torch I don't even need to explain this. Horn can be seen in a few ways, horns in nature were design in couple of ways but I bet you anything as a survivalist it can be used to ether lure animals into position or scare of predators of a terrible screeching sound... kitten can vary but tribes used death whistle made with animal parts and same with animal whistle calls. Oh I'd like mention Napping as an art of making knives and spears, that a pretty ranger thing to do when you are surviving in the wild. This argument can go on forever which ever weapon rangers are delegated to, but I don't care because Guild wars 2 vision there ranger to be this way in their world and in their setting. Whether or not inspirations were drawn from other games or table top, its not forced into the "golden perspective of it has to be X or else its wrong" Mentality. So #$%^&* you I want to be a hammer/sword horn ranger and enjoy eating my shiny metal mallet. To add to it. Staffs have been used to help roaming nature for a very long time. Especially mountain terrain. Like this one here. https://www.bergundsteigen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Abb02_Bergstock_Messner-851x1024.jpg Edited January 3 by DanAlcedo.3281 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 No seriously, questioning why is this still going? Longbow - Ranged Shortbow - Ranged MH Axe - Ranged Staff - Ranged Warhorn - 50% ranged Torch - 50% ranged OH Dagger - 50% ranged OH Axe - 50% ranged vs. GS - Melee (used to be able to throw it though!) Hammer - Melee MH Dagger - Melee* (Unleashed ambush is a teleport so can be ranged) Sword - Melee Maces - Melee Literally ranger is more ranged than melee. Didn't think I'd need to type all this out but here we are... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: No seriously, questioning why is this still going? Longbow - Ranged Shortbow - Ranged MH Axe - Ranged Staff - Ranged Warhorn - 50% ranged Torch - 50% ranged OH Dagger - 50% ranged OH Axe - 50% ranged vs. GS - Melee (used to be able to throw it though!) Hammer - Melee MH Dagger - Melee* (Unleashed ambush is a teleport so can be ranged) Sword - Melee Maces - Melee Literally ranger is more ranged than melee. Didn't think I'd need to type all this out but here we are... I generally don't count offhands in this sort of analysis, since they're usually designed to be able to be used with both a melee or ranged mainhand. Generally speaking, it's the autoattack that determines whether a weaponset is ranged or melee. But that's still 4/9 autoattack weapons being ranged, including the upcoming mace in that 9. That's a fairly wide range. In fact, the only professions that are going to have more are mesmer, thief, and necromancer, at 5 each after the new weapons come in (that's two spellcasters, while thief axe was really not what I was expecting). Guardian matches at 4/9, while everyone else has less. Furthermore, ranger doesn't have the issue of having elite specialisation mechanics pushing them into melee as much as some other professions you'd expect to be ranged. Elementalist is the poster child for this - tempest and PvE catalyst both want to be close to their enemy for their mechanics to do damage, and even on core or weaver, you'd need to be running some combination of air, arcane, and/or water to avoid mechanics that make you want to go into melee (and you'd also need to eschew Evasive Arcana). Ranger largely avoids this. There are no minor traits that want you to be in or near melee range, and apart from Celestial Avatar skill 5 and some soulbeast beastmode skills, you can make any ranger specialisation as pure ranged (although it is a shame that the damage-oriented soulbeast F3's are all PBAOEs). Most professions can't say this. Closest are thief and mesmer, the others all have at least one elite spec that really wants to be up close and personal. By modern GW2 standards, ranger is about as close to being a ranged profession as it gets. It's just that it also has a range of melee options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 We should put a 10th class ingame. Called Legolas. Can use Longbow and shortbow.. Thats it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: We should put a 10th class ingame. Called Legolas. Can use Longbow and shortbow.. Thats it. Ironically, there was apparently a point in development where they had 'marksman' and 'warden' professions, but they decided they weren't standing well enough on their own so they merged them to make the ranger we have now. Which is probably why the melee weapons (and to a lesser extent axe) released with some crazy nature magic stuff, while ranger bows are almost purely martial marksmanship. But that just further demonstrates that, while marksmanship certainly is part of the ranger's theme, that's not its entire identity. Edited January 4 by draxynnic.3719 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, draxynnic.3719 said: Ironically, there was apparently a point in development where they had 'marksman' and 'warden' professions, but they decided they weren't standing well enough on their own so they merged them to make the ranger we have now. Which is probably why the melee weapons (and to a lesser extent axe) released with some crazy nature magic stuff, while ranger bows are almost purely martial marksmanship. But that just further demonstrates that, while marksmanship certainly is part of the ranger's theme, there are other aspects that are also important. A class that is just pew pew would be boring AF. So good call from Anet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, DanAlcedo.3281 said: A class that is just pew pew would be boring AF. So good call from Anet. It would also go against the general approach to profession design epitomised by GW2 even at launch. Mind you, given that we don't have much to go on apart from the name, it's possible that they did have ideas for melee options even for that, just in a context where they'd be expected to be backup weapons (somewhat similar to how professions that are more commited to melee, like guardian and warrior, still have ranged weapon options, but in reverse). I could see them going "okay, what weapons would a marksman have as a melee backup and how would they use them" and expand the concept that way... it might just be that they're all defensive-oriented. There's a part of me that kinda wishes they'd moved the mundane bow stuff over to Warrior, and had ranger go a bit more crazy with what they do with bows. Similar to how harpoon gun works underwater. As is, the ranger bow skills are... well, they're effective (despite what the OP claims, ranger is still one of the best professions in the game for ranged combat... if anything, in fact, it has lost competitors as new content was added post-release), but they're a bit lacking in the nature magic feel that a lot of the other weapons have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 1/3/2024 at 2:16 AM, draxynnic.3719 said: Yes, but it wasn't his primary weapon. And? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiviana.2650 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 1/1/2024 at 5:59 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I can see Anet change Mace to make it better for Ranger and just turn it into another thrown weapon. I will quit!...playing ranger Im okay with mace , but would like a rifle >_> 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 21 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said: And? And nobody said rangers -or aragorn- don't have or shouldn't have bows, your response was irrelevant to anything anyone said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) On 1/1/2024 at 11:43 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said: Every one of ranger's ranged options have been meta at various points in the game--with the exception of shortbow Imo I can recall 2 instances where shortbow has been meta. The first was in the very early days of the game in sPvP before they nerfed the base auto-attack speed. (It was fun while it lasted) The second was at some point of HoT when condi-ranger somehow managed to become meta in PvE raids. (Then they nerfed whatever made it meta and later buffed axe and introduced an elite spec more offensive which made shortbow and core ranger more or less irrelevant to the playerbase... I'm skipping some steps here but that's the gist of it) Edited January 5 by Dadnir.5038 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: Imo I can recall 2 instances where shortbow has been meta. The first was in the very early days of the game in sPvP before they nerfed the base auto-attack speed. (It was fun while it lasted) The second was at some point of HoT when condi-ranger somehow managed to become meta in PvE raids. (Then they nerfed whatever made it meta and later buffed axe and introduced an elite spec more offensive which made shortbow and core ranger more or less irrelevant to the playerbase... I'm skipping some steps here but that's the gist of it) Think the second might have been due to Spotter? As used to give precision to allies---guessing that may have been enough to make it meta in raids for a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: Think the second might have been due to Spotter? As used to give precision to allies---guessing that may have been enough to make it meta in raids for a bit. Nope, it was to the point that we had 8 rangers in a raid along with a mesmer and a banner slave. Spotter had nothing to do with this "meta". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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