Relic Theory crafting is really Fun

[Mell.4873]

After the current Relic drop, I have been having a lot of fun coming up with new builds.
For all the problems with replacing 10 years of runes with a half complete Relic system I'm starting to enjoy the change. Let's hope they continue to add interesting and unique Relics.

My current favorite is Demon Queen

[DeanBB.4268]

I won't really enjoy it until they get the legendary relic working.

[Omega.6801]

Implementing Relics was unnecessary and devalued BiS gear. Everything Relics do now could have been accomplished with the existing rune system and a rework of the set bonus and introducing a new gear slot sets an imho alarming precedent towards gear progression GW2 has been avoiding since they dropped ascended gear ten years ago.

That being said and being well aware that ANet will probably not switch back to the old system. Sure, let's have relics.

Let's have new Relics that do fun things. I like the Relic of Nourys a lot. But please also bring back old set bonuses as Relics. The golemancer golem comes to mind (remove the cc while you're at it). Let's add some Relics with expansions, but please also add some Relics outside of expansions every now and then too. Add some PvP specific Relics at some point, just like there are PvP specific stats. If we have to have Relics, please let them be an actual part of the game and not another afterthought, not another gimmick that gets forgotten and replaced with this years expansion.

[Omega.6801]

5 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I won't really enjoy it until they get the legendary relic working.

And this ofc.
Also until I've seen what "significant progress" is worth.

Edited January 5 by Omega.6801

[Mell.4873]

19 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I won't really enjoy it until they get the legendary relic working.

Honestly though is there any point. You can unlock any new relic with one PvP or WvW reward track. You can get more core relics by level someone up to 60 I believe. 

You don't even need to do the achievements, just use a reward track to unlock them all. 

Edited January 6 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

57 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

Implementing Relics was unnecessary and devalued BiS gear. Everything Relics do now could have been accomplished with the existing rune system and a rework of the set bonus and introducing a new gear slot sets an imho alarming precedent towards gear progression GW2 has been avoiding since they dropped ascended gear ten years ago.

That being said and being well aware that ANet will probably not switch back to the old system. Sure, let's have relics.

Let's have new Relics that do fun things. I like the Relic of Nourys a lot. But please also bring back old set bonuses as Relics. The golemancer golem comes to mind (remove the cc while you're at it). Let's add some Relics with expansions, but please also add some Relics outside of expansions every now and then too. Add some PvP specific Relics at some point, just like there are PvP specific stats. If we have to have Relics, please let them be an actual part of the game and not another afterthought, not another gimmick that gets forgotten and replaced with this years expansion.

Meh the old tier 5 rune effects where kind of boring and dated. Let hope we get something similar with updated effects. 

A Golem that does X (barrier?) rather than whatever it did before. 

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly though is there any point. You can unlock any new relic with one PvP or WvW reward track. You can get more core relic by level someone up to 60 I believe. 

You don't even need to do the achievements, just use a reward track to unlock them all. 

Nope you dont get any new core relics by leveling up to 60 that box was only to existing lvl 60+ characters when relics launched.

Source me I leveled my keyrun character to 60 with tomes.

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Nope you dont get any new core relics by leveling up to 60 that box was only to existing lvl 60+ characters when relics launched.

Source me I leveled my keyrun character to 60 with tomes.

Fair so legendary relics would save you 10-20 gold on Core relics if you are forced to buy them. 

If they do introduce better Soto relics especially ones for power builds then it is probably not worth it.

[Ashen.2907]

I can see going from being able to freely test any possible combination of differing stat and effect combinations for theory crafted full builds to not being able to do so as being off-putting. Don't see losing that ability as particularly fun.

Completing a reward track in order to test a relic only for it to not work as well as hoped, requiring one to do it again and again seems delightful. I always look forward to spending hours completing a reward track when I would rather be theorycrafting and testing. Hey Ive got an hour to mess around before my guild forms up to play together, why not spend it testing relics in builds....except that it takes longer than an hojr to get each relic.

[Cyninja.2954]

The way relics were added might have been off putting (especially since the legendary relic is still to be released). Still the new system is better than the old one.

The current comparison keeps to be between an old full legy 6 relic setup, and a new 6 legi rune and 1 exotic relic setup. To no ones surprise, the setup which is not full legi loses out on convenience.

Things people seem to forget:

1. Switching between rune sets in the old system was more tedious for any player without a full set of legi runes

2. The vast amount of players who ran inefficient rune setups thus eventually never acquiring a 6 piece bonus or forgetting runes entirely (already a balance issue for a game which has huge gaps between good and bad builds)

3. The easier design process for relic bonuses versus entire rune sets (making it potentially easier to implement new relics)

4. The seperation of rune stat bonuses from the relic (aka 6th piece set bonus) for build crafting

5. The potential access to (depending on implementation) of the legi relic without acquiring the entire set of legendary runes for players without any

 

So yes, currently the relic is more cumbersom and less convenient for build crafting while already better design for average players build wise. 

Once the legendary relic releases, the new system will be more convenient and better designed for build crafting tha  the old.

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I can see going from being able to freely test any possible combination of differing stat and effect combinations for theory crafted full builds to not being able to do so as being off-putting. Don't see losing that ability as particularly fun.

Completing a reward track in order to test a relic only for it to not work as well as hoped, requiring one to do it again and again seems delightful. I always look forward to spending hours completing a reward track when I would rather be theorycrafting and testing. Hey Ive got an hour to mess around before my guild forms up to play together, why not spend it testing relics in builds....except that it takes longer than an hojr to get each relic.

Maybe I'm just a sweaty nerd for these thing but I am stock piling the last reward chest and just opening them when I need a new Relic. 

Im sure when the legendary options is available it will offer some value since in theory it would be on every armor type and character.

[Fueki.4753]

I'd rather have my Rock Dog back than theory craft with the current Relics.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Completing a reward track in order to test a relic only for it to not work as well as hoped, requiring one to do it again and again seems delightful. I always look forward to spending hours completing a reward track when I would rather be theorycrafting and testing. Hey Ive got an hour to mess around before my guild forms up to play together, why not spend it testing relics in builds....except that it takes longer than an hojr to get each relic.

Test them in sPvP.  Only thing left from there is the stat combos PvE provides, but you'd have a pretty good idea anyway as relics don't really make or break a build.  Also some amulets from PvP overlap anyway..like if a relic is good with berzerker amulet in pvp it will be good with berzerker gear in PvE/WvW.  

In general, relics have promoted power creep though.  Take Trapper Runes + Speed Relic, has made condition builds way more mobile than they were when Trapper Runes just had the 6th bonus.  This extends across the board and couples with weapon master adding a ton of power creep...all of it is just causing players to leave I fear.  

[Sobx.1758]

Before soto release I said I'll minimaze interacting with various relics until legendary relic is added into the game and that's exactly what I'm doing. I have no doubts I'll like it after it happens, though 😄  

[Teknomancer.4895]

17 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

Also until I've seen what "significant progress" is worth.

Just watch, they'll put a Legendary Relic Starter Kit in the WV for max AA price, but if you already had legendary runes you get the kit for free.

[Omega.6801]

5 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Just watch, they'll put a Legendary Relic Starter Kit in the WV for max AA price, but if you already had legendary runes you get the kit for free.

Don't worry. I have given up on expecting anything from this company. Words mean nothing. I just asssume that "significant progress" will be three green unids and a bag of charms that gives me five random charms per legendary rune where the legendary relic will need 250 of each charm and 1000g worth of other materials. Words mean nothing. If I'm wrong all the better.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

20 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I won't really enjoy it until they get the legendary relic working.

How does that work though? Every other piece of armor is more or less the same: They're just blocks of stats, and legendary equipment whether that's armor, weapons, or accessories let you change those stats.

But relics are not stat blocks. Relics are effects. So what's the idea, that it'll be a single relic with every effect built in and you can change at will?

[Fueki.4753]

5 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Relics are effects. So what's the idea, that it'll be a single relic with every effect built in and you can change at will?

Rune had effects before they became nothing more than boring attribute sticks in August, too.

I don't see why the legendary relic should be any different than legendary runes were before August.

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

How does that work though? Every other piece of armor is more or less the same: They're just blocks of stats, and legendary equipment whether that's armor, weapons, or accessories let you change those stats.

But relics are not stat blocks. Relics are effects. So what's the idea, that it'll be a single relic with every effect built in and you can change at will?

Legendary runes and sigils exist, but you draw a line at legendary relic (which is more-or-less a stripped off part of previous iteration of runes)? Why? I don't get it.

Edited January 6 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

50 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

So what's the idea, that it'll be a single relic with every effect built in and you can change at will?

That is how it worked before they stripped 6th tier bonus effects from legendary runes and essentially how it works for every piece of legendary gear. If ANet does not implement legendary relics in this manner they are likely to see significant push back, again.

Personally I think that the cost to make legendary runes should be reduced since they have had their effect lessened and there is additional cost to gain functionality that existed under the current cost. Then, of course, progress toward legendary relics for those who had legendary runes before my posited discounted cost.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

13 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

That is how it worked before they stripped 6th tier bonus effects from legendary runes and essentially how it works for every piece of legendary gear. If ANet does not implement legendary relics in this manner they are likely to see significant push back, again.

Personally I think that the cost to make legendary runes should be reduced since they have had their effect lessened and there is additional cost to gain functionality that existed under the current cost. Then, of course, progress toward legendary relics for those who had legendary runes before my posited discounted cost.

Is it? I don't have any legendary armor, much less runes, so I wasn't aware. I guess that makes sesne then.

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Is it? I don't have any legendary armor, much less runes, so I wasn't aware. I guess that makes sesne then.

Yeah, it is very nice to be able to change up stats freely with access to all combinations, to use for all characters on your account, and (a personal fave) be able to freely change skins.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

28 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Yeah, it is very nice to be able to change up stats freely with access to all combinations, to use for all characters on your account, and (a personal fave) be able to freely change skins.

It's on my list, someday. I JUST got done building the Meteorlogicus...the hard way. No Wizard Vault booster there, I did it all. And I am DRAINED. My gold is gone, my mats are gone, I am tapped. That's ONE scepter. I don't even want to look at a full suit of armor.....or since I'm a mesmer, a legendary suit of clothes.

[Alester.7063]

On 1/6/2024 at 12:42 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly though is there any point. You can unlock any new relic with one PvP or WvW reward track. You can get more core relics by level someone up to 60 I believe. 

You don't even need to do the achievements, just use a reward track to unlock them all. 

I don't have a problem if I have to unlock them first. What I simply don't like is the fact that I lost the sharing of the rune effect due to the relics not having a Legy so far and on top the relics are soulbound which imo should absolutely not exist anymore.

[kharmin.7683]

48 minutes ago, Alester.7063 said:

I don't have a problem if I have to unlock them first. What I simply don't like is the fact that I lost the sharing of the rune effect due to the relics not having a Legy so far and on top the relics are soulbound which imo should absolutely not exist anymore.

I agree.  Soulbound items are old thinking and should no longer exist.  Account bound, sure, but not soulbound.