Nerf Sorrow please

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

It seems both you and @MercurialKuroSludge.8974 misunderstood the "every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure" sentence in my original post. I meant every public Convergence of that day when I posted, not every public instance in general. Yes failing 4 times in a row in a single day got me questioning how could anyone claim with a straight face they haven't seen a singled failed Sorrow at all. Unless they play just once a week, and only with their private buddies instead of public events. 

As for today if anyone cares, the instance I was in was almost a fail. Zojja was 1-2% left, Sorrow more than 50% before we managed to phase it. The next 2 phases were just as tight, but we managed to pull through. Still, being that hopelessly close certainly didn't make it a pleasant experience for anyone.

There's just something obviously off about Sorrow compared to Demon Knight. And we're more than rational enough about it than baseless whining.

In my experience DK can kitten up the fight harder with the meteors, I didn't fight the DK a lot, because the game for sure loves Sorrow, but in 11 fights with DK 9 times Zojja almost got nuked by meteors being accidentally - or purposefully, who knows - placed on her, it's a nice scare though.

Sorrow is only really dangerous if people are slow on damage. Had a few runs where people forgot CC existed and only CCd Sorrow twice, yet we had no issues, since his health went down fast.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

3 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

It seems both you and @MercurialKuroSludge.8974 misunderstood the "every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure" sentence in my original post. I meant every public Convergence of that day when I posted, not every public instance in general. Yes failing 4 times in a row in a single day got me questioning how could anyone claim with a straight face they haven't seen a singled failed Sorrow at all. Unless they play just once a week, and only with their private buddies instead of public events. 

As for today if anyone cares, the instance I was in was almost a fail. Zojja was 1-2% left, Sorrow more than 50% before we managed to phase it. The next 2 phases were just as tight, but we managed to pull through. Still, being that hopelessly close certainly didn't make it a pleasant experience for anyone.

There's just something obviously off about Sorrow compared to Demon Knight. And we're more than rational enough about it than baseless whining.

If you didn't fail as much as we think you do, why you keep making cry posts about Public Convergences failing?
I can claim with a straight face, because as dicey as some Sorrows get, Ive never failed one, literally ever.
And Ive never done a Private Convergence, because the LFGs from the comms usually ick me out.
If I had friends, I wouldn't be wasting my time reading posts like yours that give brain rot.

Here you are again with another "btw I almost failed again today", if you are RNGing thru Public lobbies, that means you are fully dependent on other peoples' performance to carry you, instead of being a useful asset when a group succeeds.
If you had ANY confidence, you would be saying stuff like "I dumped all of my Chrono CC on the boss and did over 2200, yet these pugs do 0", you've given no numbers, no quantifications, only whining about how good you are but displaying behavior identical to garbage pugs.
"Not a pleasant experience when something almost fails", that's a "I want everything done while Im afk" mindset, the same thing the garbage pugs have.
If you achieved something that you think of as extremely difficult, you should be feeling proud, but you don't, because deep down you know you didn't contribute to the success of it.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

*

Edited January 25 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

48 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

If you didn't fail as much as we think you do, why you keep making cry posts about Public Convergences failing?

Because it's a problem that needs to be addressed, no matter how much you want to deny that it is? 

Nobody says it's impossible to beat, but people know when something feels off. 

Quote

I can claim with a straight face, because as dicey as some Sorrows get, Ive never failed one, literally ever.
And Ive never done a Private Convergence, because the LFGs from the comms usually ick me out.
Here you are again with another "btw I almost failed again today", if you are RNGing thru Public lobbies, that means you are fully dependent on other peoples' performance to carry you, instead of being a useful asset when a group succeeds.

Fine, since you're so fixated on build talk. Full Celestial standard 2x staff Mirage, Bursting + Energy Sigils, CC includes Staff 5 (100), F3 (300-400), Signet of Domination (300) and Signet of Humility (600). Does that qualify your 1200 benchmark yet, sir get good?

And before you're jumping on me with the "Celestial = noob" like how you lots like to think, I do have other specialized builds for instanced content. I use this one simply because I believe it's the best to deal with Convergence.  

Quote

If you had ANY confidence, you would be saying stuff like "I dumped all of my Chrono CC on the boss and did over 2200, yet these pugs do 0", you've given no numbers, no quantifications, only whining about how good you are but displaying behavior identical to garbage pugs.
"Not a pleasant experience when something almost fails", that's a "I want everything done while Im afk" mindset, the same thing the garbage pugs have.
If you achieved something that you think of as extremely difficult, you should be feeling proud, but you don't, because deep down you know you didn't contribute to the success of it.

You do realize this "I'm good, people bad" works both ways right? Have you even read what you've been writing?

I don't know all the people in this game but only literal garbage would point to others as garbage. As frustrated as I am, at least I don't name people.

Quote

If I had friends, I wouldn't be wasting my time reading posts like yours that give brain rot.

And posts like yours stink the forum. What have you really done here?

Edited January 25 by ZephidelGRS.9520

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

35 minutes ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

And posts like yours stink the forum. What have you really done here?

Not make as much cry posts, thats for sure.

"But people know when something feels off"
Youd be surprised how little people care about Sorrows these days, people dont even react to Sorrows negatively much anymore, they just go sweaty.

"At least I don't name people"
Here you are trying to insinuate that everyone here who disagrees with you suck, yet we don't struggle with Convergences, you do.
You are the one crying about YOUR failures, not us.
And I never specified which pug players were bad, I never name dropped them, if you feel personally attacked when we tell you to try harder, thats just your bruised ego.

And lastly, I don't care what build you run, as long as you are efficient with it.
Do you even understand why theres talk of builds? Because we have nothing except your word that you aren't one of the liabilities dragging your instance down.
Reminder, if somebody fails at something a lot, theres usually something they can improve, even if they arent responsible for the situation, or are you telling me a good HealScourge cant carry a bunch of crappy dps on Boneskinner? 
Your angry post here with numbers and details is the only tangible thing we can see about what you have been doing in Convergences.

[Locce.8405]

I actually don't think that Sorrow itself is that bad. Sure, it's a bit more difficult than the Demon Knight, but the main issues with Sorrow causing a fail come down to three things:

1. When you have to do CC Sorrow does CC back by throwing people in the air and with it's really big wing-flap pushback area. In itself this isn't that big of a problem, but it becomes a giant issue when compounded with 2. and 3.
2. Sorrows mobility really doesn't gel well with some of the potential fighting arenas. Fails against Sorrow don't seem to happen in the final phase in the middle but rather during phase 2 or 3 of the fight when Sorrow has its back against a wall or hugs a cliff, leaving little to no room to engage without being exposed to its attacks, including the CC wing-flap. And even worse...
3. Sorrow abuses game mechanics to its advantage, and this is - hopefully accidentally - by design. Sorrow's dashes have to end at a wall or a cliff, and that means situations described in 2. are quite likely compared to a dash ending randomly somewhere in the open if the arena between wall and cliff is narrow enough. On top of that, and in my opinion the biggest contributor to Sorrow fails overall, the cliff is usually where Zojja and the Skyscale launchers are. That means there is a high probability that Sorrow's dashed end on or near either or even in the middle between both, in which case Zojja suddenly takes a lot of additional damage for as long as Sorrow decides to stay there while melee characters have a hard time dpsing Sorrow and staying out of attacks without constantly getting launched in the air by the Skyscale launcher. If there were, for example, "Sorrow-free zones" around Zojja and Skyscale launchers or any other change to that effect, that measure alone would probably eliminate more than half of Sorrow fails.

[Lugh.8470]

well good things is after my experience we (public group) haven't failed sorrow since that 2 fails back to back (yeah maybe we were bad). 

Sorrow isn't bad or anything, but it is bit weird that demon knight is much relief than sorrow. Demon knight does just some damage to zojja but Sorrow on othe other hand we constantly monitor zojja. Doesn't help that Sorrow does the air jumping attack, now THAT gets me everytime it is just.. I don't know irksome? happens too often too many times.

[Urud.4925]

I also didn't see many failures (probably 2 in 55 attempts), but the fight is a bit annoying. As @Locce.8405 said, the problem is when Sorrow fights close to a wall: you can't easily go behind him and even if you manage it, you won't see anything because the camera will zoom to your feet. This compared with the vortex (it's "fun" to CC enemies but it's annoying when a boss CC you) and the mess of colours and explosions, makes it quite annoying. Although honestly it's highlighted quite well when you are a target for a meteor, I can also see it while in shroud. I would just reduce a bit the duration of the vortex.

Edited February 5 by Urud.4925

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Sorrow is fine. Players hardly participating is the problem. Auto boot players who are AFK. Disable participation from players who are only sitting on a skyscale and shooting fore balls and the boss will be a lot easier. And on the public runs I play I hardly see any failures lately. Players have learned to feed Zojja the orbs to heal her and most often this saves the instance from a failure. When the mission was new most players were clueless on how to heal her so they just DPS-ed the boss and failed the mission due to Zojja running out of life.

[zeyeti.8347]

Sorrow is perfectly fine , the difficulty here is to be with people who have just a little knowledge of the fight , so the difficulty of convergence is only about the kind of ppl you are with.

i did it with a public convergence and what a nightmare (got into the first second the public was accessible) , i literally saw only maybe 10ish people going back and forth for healing zojja with orbs , while AA boys where complaining this fight is too difficult by doing 3-4k average damage + a bunch of afk mid , and we had people explaining how to heal zojja with orbs and the need of crowd control , and guess what nobody listened , all we had was a nugget at the end complaining his hp was 50% lower and he couldn't understand why .... maybe scroll to your boons to see this weird icon you didn't see anywhere else ... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kryptis_Essence oh kitten there it is , took me 30 secs , the first sentence literally says "heal zojja". 

then i joined a private squad with a com making sure every group had alacrity and quickness covered and splits being made , fight went like a charm , zojja health didn't go under 75% and sorrow had only time to do 1 or 2 cc phase per 25% , dps of everybody was chunky , boon uptime was every raider's dream , also the commander insisted of non afk players , telling he would ask everybody to report them , then kick them out ... fear works sometimes especially against *kittens selfish kittens* , so *kitten* public convergence , go private !

it was teh same problem when Soo won meta came up , you had sometimes a chicken who didn't know to get up from the green mechanic collecting orbs , while the game literally tell you in the middle of your screen 'collect shiny orbs' thus eating 2-3 minutes of the whole boss timing ... , the problem is some people are stupid or don't care and that's not anet fault.

ppl are too lazy to look up on google an explanation , while google can find literally anything , i am sure i ask it how to make scrambled eggs popcorn with marijuana leaf and pesto , google will find me a somewhat edible recipe...

Edited February 10 by zeyeti.8347

[bossdonut.1938]

20 months later and ppl still failing on this time for a nerf now

 

thanks

[Linken.6345]

just get better people

[bossdonut.1938]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

just get better people

well this was the pug portal so i cant control that. i go in and make a tag and use a alac healer necromancer guy to help keep people alive, and only 3 people join my tag

 

but they dont listen.

[Sobx.1758]

 

No, it is not and the reasoninig is already in that thread.

 

e: and it's merged now.

Edited February 19 by Sobx.1758

[bossdonut.1938]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

No, it is not and the reasoninig is already in that thread.

yes it is

related, how do you block someone on the forums.

[Sobx.1758]

No, it isn't, didn't fail a single convergence, if you have issues with afkers or players trying to leech, tag up or join a tag through lfg.

[bossdonut.1938]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it isn't, didn't fail a single convergence, if you have issues with afkers or players trying to leech, tag up or join a tag through lfg.

yes it is

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, bossdonut.1938 said:

yes it is

In order to claim that, you need a reason. For now you don't have one.

[bossdonut.1938]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

In order to claim that, you need a reason. For now you don't have one.

i provided one already. so you are wrong. it is a few posts up.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, bossdonut.1938 said:

i provided one already. so you are wrong. it is a few posts up.

Where all you said was you and your squad keep failing it so time for a nerf

[vares.8457]

8 hours ago, bossdonut.1938 said:

20 months later and ppl still failing on this time for a nerf now

 

thanks

I now did 90 public convergences, not one fail. There is nothing that should be nerfed. 
The only “problem” I can see is too many casuals in the instance, they tend to ruin it for everyone. But that’s not Sorrows fault 

Edited February 20 by vares.8457

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, bossdonut.1938 said:

i provided one already. so you are wrong. it is a few posts up.

You being able to fail an encounter isn't a reason to nerf it.

[Nidome.1365]

I have noticed a change in Sorrow for the last few weeks. At least 60% of the time Sorrow reverses gravity at the same time as dropping essence. This means that by the time people get on the ground again the essence has gone.
They either need to:
1) Have no gravity reversal at the same time as essence dropping.
OR
2) Have the essence last longer before disappearing.

It is really frustrating wasting half an hour of my time because of random gravity reversals making collecting essence to heal Zojja impossible.

[Aelin.9317]

On 1/14/2024 at 10:46 AM, Andy.5981 said:

They don't need to nerf the actual encounter.

Just make it so that you 1) cannot damage anything with skyscale fireballs. and 2) introduce a Participation counter for taking part in each phase.

If you don't have the counters you don't do any damage on the next phase. To get a reward from the boss you need all the participation levels from the previous phases.

Phase 1 - helping Zojja, killing Avatars of spite, destroying seige weapons or of the three Kryptis champions gives you Participation Level 1

Phase 2 - if you've not done any of the above you then you won't have Participation level 1 and therefore cannot damage anything. If you actively take part in this phase by killing seige, avatars of spite, a kryptis lieutenant, Generals etc, you receive Participation level 2.

Phase 3 - Legendary Sorrow/Demon Knight. If you've not got Participation level 1 and 2 you don't do any damage and get no loot at the end. Actively attacking the boss gives Pariticipation level 3.

Boss dies - you've got all 3 Participation levels? Nice, you get loot.

The above won't affect anyone playing to win, only AFKr's

If the issue causing failure is leeching/lazy players this makes it worse. At least a lazy player is maybe doing some damage, preventing the player from doing any damage at all makes it worse and makes failure more likely.

Forcing participation at each stage for the reward sounds fine, preventing damage that can negatively impact the instance overall doesn't. 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Aelin.9317 said:

If the issue causing failure is leeching/lazy players this makes it worse. At least a lazy player is maybe doing some damage, preventing the player from doing any damage at all makes it worse and makes failure more likely.

Forcing participation at each stage for the reward sounds fine, preventing damage that can negatively impact the instance overall doesn't. 

I think the point is that if the players won't get contribution for lazily fireballing the target, they won't get the rewards so either they'll actually try contributing or there will be no reason for them to join the instance. Players don't leech for the sole purpose of "lazily being inside an instance", they're doing it because it provides them with easy rewards for next to no activity.

Now, it might negatively impact (altough possibly not as much as one could think?) the rest of the group for "the first few runs" because that's where the leeching players learn that their leeching no longer works. Then they either stop joining (who cares) or they start contributing at least a bit more to get the rewards.