Future Expansion Content Should Include SPvP/WvW

[BATMAN.6794]

SoTo delivered practically nothing for PvP/WvW, we used to get atleast new elite specs, but now it's just a new weapon for each class, so the fact that we aren't getting a new WvW/PvP map or something significant or new within the game modes is a real let down. PvE gets new maps every quarter, there's really no reason why in the past almost 9 years we haven't gotten a new WvW map, we understand you don't want to deliver another map people might not like, but that's no excuse for not trying. We sit with only 2 map options for the borderlands, atleast finish and give us 3 map choices. I wish you'd have gone the route of new map over having betas for alliances and restructuring because atleast we'd have something by now. PvP atleast gets 2v2 and 3v3 seasons occasionally to mix things up, so it's kind of like getting a new map, but PvP should still get new maps. I'm not even asking for it to happen every xpac, just give us 1 of the 2 for the upcoming xpac and do the other the following xpac.

[Kiki.9450]

As a PvE-only player, I find it absurd that this game was advertised as having three pillars, yet only one gets fed. I get it, that most players prefer PvE gameplay (hi I'm one of those) and that you want to develop mostly for your majority, but to say that there's two other major gameplay modes in this game and then starve them as much as they have been is just bizarre to me, especially seeing as WvW has as vocal a playerbase as it does.

[Randulf.7614]

Im not a spvp/wvw player, but I agree those modes deserve the investment for their respective players.

What sort of map would you like? A HoT style jungle map maybe? (I’m spitballing before I get jumped on for it being a bad idea)

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Just now, Kiki.9450 said:

As a PvE-only player, I find it absurd that this game was advertised as having three pillars, yet only one gets fed. I get it, that most players prefer PvE gameplay (hi I'm one of those) and that you want to develop mostly for your majority, but to say that there's two other major gameplay modes in this game and then starve them as much as they have been is just bizarre to me, especially seeing as WvW has as vocal a playerbase as it does.

The reason for that is simple though: $$$$. Of those three pillars, where does the cash come from. PvP isn't generating money. Sure, those people will spend some money, but PvP players (in general) are going to care a lot more about mechanics than they are all the skins and such. Same thing in WvW. It doesn't really matter what you look like when you're inside a pile of 75 people, 84 AOEs, and enough neon eye kitten to make the Lighthouse for the Blind give up on life. PvE, however, is where Fashion Wars thrives, and Fashion Wars is driven by the BLTC, so it's no surprise that's where 99.9999% of all their effort goes.

And this isn't just a PvP and WvW problem....well, it is, and it isn't. We have a new balance patch coming out in two weeks and practically no one is happy with it...not that that's particularly new. But all the adjustments they made back in November they're rolling back, save Guardian who isn't quite powerful enough to finish the game on its own while the player is afk (Someday it will ge there). But where's the balance team? What are they doing? What are they THINKING???  I'll tell you what they're thinking: "I do not have time for this because the team making skins for the BLTC is 5 times larger than I am."

I'm in the same boat as you, I feel for the PvP/WvW people. I mean, I hate them, but I understand them at least, and they don't deserve this treatment. But it's hardly surprising, and it's not even that compilcated. And it goes to the heart of a lot of problems we are seeing in the game right now. GW2 is a great game, but it has been overly corporatized. The priorities are narrow and bluntly transparent. And I don't know what we do about that, especially now. I think that rubicon's been crossed.

[Kiki.9450]

45 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Im not a spvp/wvw player, but I agree those modes deserve the investment for their respective players.

What sort of map would you like? A HoT style jungle map maybe? (I’m spitballing before I get jumped on for it being a bad idea)

I found it odd they didn't do a map that thematically matches each expansion. Jungle map, desert map, Cantha map (New Kaineng? Echovald? Dragon's End? All viable themes. Maybe mix all three and do one focus for each third and have each team start in each area, i.e. red team starts in Echovald). This expansion could have done something with the Amnytas assets or the fractal concept.

[Kiki.9450]

41 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

The reason for that is simple though: $$$$. Of those three pillars, where does the cash come from. PvP isn't generating money. Sure, those people will spend some money, but PvP players (in general) are going to care a lot more about mechanics than they are all the skins and such. Same thing in WvW. It doesn't really matter what you look like when you're inside a pile of 75 people, 84 AOEs, and enough neon eye kitten to make the Lighthouse for the Blind give up on life. PvE, however, is where Fashion Wars thrives, and Fashion Wars is driven by the BLTC, so it's no surprise that's where 99.9999% of all their effort goes.

And this isn't just a PvP and WvW problem....well, it is, and it isn't. We have a new balance patch coming out in two weeks and practically no one is happy with it...not that that's particularly new. But all the adjustments they made back in November they're rolling back, save Guardian who isn't quite powerful enough to finish the game on its own while the player is afk (Someday it will ge there). But where's the balance team? What are they doing? What are they THINKING???  I'll tell you what they're thinking: "I do not have time for this because the team making skins for the BLTC is 5 times larger than I am."

I'm in the same boat as you, I feel for the PvP/WvW people. I mean, I hate them, but I understand them at least, and they don't deserve this treatment. But it's hardly surprising, and it's not even that compilcated. And it goes to the heart of a lot of problems we are seeing in the game right now. GW2 is a great game, but it has been overly corporatized. The priorities are narrow and bluntly transparent. And I don't know what we do about that, especially now. I think that rubicon's been crossed.

I very much did state that I understand that the majority of players will be the ones seeing the majority of game development. 

I don't know what the patch notes have to do with making new maps for WvW, but ok. I saw plenty of WvW-related changes there, but I don't dig into what I don't follow, so I more or less skimmed passed those looking for what impacts my character.

The only thing unhappy players can do with a game that's taking a direction they don't like is to A. voice their concern on a platform the developers will see this (for example, this thread is clearly concern that WvW and PvP don't see enough development, and this is the official GW2 forum, so surely Anet comes here and sees this displeasure), and then B., stop giving them money. All companies are more fluent in one language more than any other, and you know that, judging by that first sentence of yours.

What your giant rant about cosmetics is missing is, if there's no content for a group of players, that group of players will not play, and therefore not spend any money on cosmetics. Especially if they came to play this game for a specific advertised central pillar of the game.

[sorudo.9054]

two things to consider

1.) is it worth the money? the last "expansion" isn't even worth the PvE experience so how is to going to be worth the PvP experience.

2.) does it benefit anyone buying the expansion? if it is just a map and that's it then it benefits no one, if it adds more features it gives them a to big of an advantage (pay to win).

balance is key.

[Randulf.7614]

I suppose the other thing to consider is that wvw maps need to be accessible regardless of whether you have the expac or not. It doesn’t take away from the opinion that another should be added, but perhaps not in context of being part of any expansion.

[River Valley.2396]

Expansion only maps and playlists are a thing in other games; would that work here?

Who knows?

I do think that Anet should think about doing "split" expansions, but they'll be more expensive to make. Not only as they'll need to two different teams working on it at the same time, but also because they will have to take more time developing it in order for the quality on all parts of the expansion are level.

They have the data on how engaged the pvp crowd is and who among those are owners of the expansions, so they can figure out if it's worth it from there.

But both sides of the equation will need to be top notch in order for it to work, otherwise you'll have each side blaming the other as to why X is not as good as before.

I'm purely a PVE player, but they need to give the PVP crowd something and the best way to do that is to do split expansions.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

According to their Twitter bio "immersive stories, stunning landscapes, 2 PvP modes & more! Play free at ".  So they use those PvP modes to advertise their game.

And WvW is a "cornerstone" of their game from earlier press statements.

But just seeing the bare minimum content that PvE received from SoTo combined with a WvW update that one person appears to be working on, leads me to believe they are working on another game.

 

[GBEW.5947]

3 hours ago, BATMAN.6794 said:

I wish you'd have gone the route of new map over having betas for alliances and restructuring because atleast we'd have something by now

oh my god this hit hard.... I agree. 

[BATMAN.6794]

Just to clarify, I am not suggesting the new maps are only available to people who buy the xpacs, I meant simply that they could bring the new maps in with the expansions. Buy xpac = free WvW/SPvP map included in purchase as a bonus, etc.

[Pifil.5193]

16 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I suppose the other thing to consider is that wvw maps need to be accessible regardless of whether you have the expac or not. It doesn’t take away from the opinion that another should be added, but perhaps not in context of being part of any expansion.

Yep, and any sPvP maps would also have to be accessible regardless of whether or not you have the expansion too otherwise you'd be splitting the population too much. 

[Fueki.4753]

19 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I suppose the other thing to consider is that wvw maps need to be accessible regardless of whether you have the expac or not. It doesn’t take away from the opinion that another should be added, but perhaps not in context of being part of any expansion.

The Wizard's Toilet and the Relic system were launched together with a mini expansion, yet are forced upon every player. These two things are proof that not everything that's being released with a mini expansion needs to be locked behind said mini expansion.

If they wanted to, they could release WvW and sPvP additions together with a mini expansion and let everyone have access to it.

Edited January 15 by Fueki.4753

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

sPvP is beyond dead and WvW is closely following. No need to waste resources on them.

[Astralporing.1957]

22 hours ago, BATMAN.6794 said:

I wish you'd have gone the route of new map over having betas for alliances and restructuring because atleast we'd have something by now.

Notice, that last 2 times they released a new map for WvW it didn't end up well. So, why exactly you think the third time it would be any better? They'd have to learn to listen to feedback first, and, looking how skill balance cases go, it is a skill they have to learn yet.

[DeanBB.4268]

What do maps matter, anyway? You run around attacking structures and killing people, or run around claiming circles and killing people. Would it make much of a difference if it was square or round? And how long until that new map was just as routine as what we have?

[Kera.3982]

PvP is the worst I've seen in an MMO. Even compared to Black Desert Online, Guild Wars 2's PvP manages to disappoint many including me with every update. I agree with @Arianth Moonlight.6453 to not waste resources on PvP/WvW. The developers should focus on PvE content and make Fractal Rewards accessible for casual players.

[Assolador.3598]

8 minutes ago, Kera.3982 said:

PvP is the worst I've seen in an MMO. Even compared to Black Desert Online, Guild Wars 2's PvP manages to disappoint many including me with every update. I agree with @Arianth Moonlight.6453 to not waste resources on PvP/WvW. The developers should focus on PvE content and make Fractal Rewards accessible for casual players.

seems like u don't pvp

[Assolador.3598]

23 hours ago, BATMAN.6794 said:

SoTo delivered practically nothing for PvP/WvW, we used to get atleast new elite specs, but now it's just a new weapon for each class, so the fact that we aren't getting a new WvW/PvP map or something significant or new within the game modes is a real let down. PvE gets new maps every quarter, there's really no reason why in the past almost 9 years we haven't gotten a new WvW map, we understand you don't want to deliver another map people might not like, but that's no excuse for not trying. We sit with only 2 map options for the borderlands, atleast finish and give us 3 map choices. I wish you'd have gone the route of new map over having betas for alliances and restructuring because atleast we'd have something by now. PvP atleast gets 2v2 and 3v3 seasons occasionally to mix things up, so it's kind of like getting a new map, but PvP should still get new maps. I'm not even asking for it to happen every xpac, just give us 1 of the 2 for the upcoming xpac and do the other the following xpac.

yeah it sucks, I really want some pvp content, no new mode, just a new map would make my pvp side very happy

[Assolador.3598]

23 hours ago, BATMAN.6794 said:

SoTo delivered practically nothing for PvP/WvW, we used to get atleast new elite specs, but now it's just a new weapon for each class, so the fact that we aren't getting a new WvW/PvP map or something significant or new within the game modes is a real let down. PvE gets new maps every quarter, there's really no reason why in the past almost 9 years we haven't gotten a new WvW map, we understand you don't want to deliver another map people might not like, but that's no excuse for not trying. We sit with only 2 map options for the borderlands, atleast finish and give us 3 map choices. I wish you'd have gone the route of new map over having betas for alliances and restructuring because atleast we'd have something by now. PvP atleast gets 2v2 and 3v3 seasons occasionally to mix things up, so it's kind of like getting a new map, but PvP should still get new maps. I'm not even asking for it to happen every xpac, just give us 1 of the 2 for the upcoming xpac and do the other the following xpac.

Im mainly pvp player (haven't yet cleared raid cms) , when people said me no more raids would happen that made me a little sad about people that loves that type of stuff, so yeah, both should get some love

[Assolador.3598]

22 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

The reason for that is simple though: $$$$. Of those three pillars, where does the cash come from. PvP isn't generating money. Sure, those people will spend some money, but PvP players (in general) are going to care a lot more about mechanics than they are all the skins and such. Same thing in WvW. It doesn't really matter what you look like when you're inside a pile of 75 people, 84 AOEs, and enough neon eye kitten to make the Lighthouse for the Blind give up on life. PvE, however, is where Fashion Wars thrives, and Fashion Wars is driven by the BLTC, so it's no surprise that's where 99.9999% of all their effort goes.

And this isn't just a PvP and WvW problem....well, it is, and it isn't. We have a new balance patch coming out in two weeks and practically no one is happy with it...not that that's particularly new. But all the adjustments they made back in November they're rolling back, save Guardian who isn't quite powerful enough to finish the game on its own while the player is afk (Someday it will ge there). But where's the balance team? What are they doing? What are they THINKING???  I'll tell you what they're thinking: "I do not have time for this because the team making skins for the BLTC is 5 times larger than I am."

I'm in the same boat as you, I feel for the PvP/WvW people. I mean, I hate them, but I understand them at least, and they don't deserve this treatment. But it's hardly surprising, and it's not even that compilcated. And it goes to the heart of a lot of problems we are seeing in the game right now. GW2 is a great game, but it has been overly corporatized. The priorities are narrow and bluntly transparent. And I don't know what we do about that, especially now. I think that rubicon's been crossed.

now that anet got a steady content release schedule, im pretty sure they have a lil time to put between those a little work on a pvp map, or just rework some of the existing ones to make it playable on ranked

[Linken.6345]

32 minutes ago, Kera.3982 said:

PvP is the worst I've seen in an MMO. Even compared to Black Desert Online, Guild Wars 2's PvP manages to disappoint many including me with every update. I agree with @Arianth Moonlight.6453 to not waste resources on PvP/WvW. The developers should focus on PvE content and make Fractal Rewards accessible for casual players.

How is fractal rewards not accessible for casual players?

[Kera.3982]

1 hour ago, Assolador.3598 said:

seems like u don't pvp

I do. And have been PvPing way longer than you that's for sure.

43 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

How is fractal rewards not accessible for casual players?

New players are gatekeeped at Tier 3-4. Not sure if you've realized but its been going on for a long time. Nobody teaches new players how to do Fractals except some Guilds but most experienced players expect gold in return.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

46 minutes ago, Assolador.3598 said:

now that anet got a steady content release schedule, im pretty sure they have a lil time to put between those a little work on a pvp map, or just rework some of the existing ones to make it playable on ranked

Look, let's be honest, they could do a lot of things if they wanted to. They could make more pvp maps. I'm pretty sure I could make PvP maps, and I don't even know how to make a map in their engine. I'm sure if they wanted to they could have reintroduced Guild vs Guild a long time ago. They could have made new WvW maps. They could put some real effort into balancing the professions. They could fix bugs that have been in the game that have been present for years like the one I ran into last night in A Shatter Nation where if an NPC gets smushed by the shatterer then you can't proceed. They could do A LOT of things, so why don't they? The answer is simple: They don't make money, and the orders coming down from on high are simple: If it doesn't make money, it doesn't get done. The only things they keep adding to the game are to drive further sales, either of the BLTC or of their expansions, and the only time they fix anything is when it's costing them money, like the gliders that kept crashing peoples games in WvW (and even then they just took gliding away from EVERYONE!)

And don't get it twisted. You talk about how they have a steady release schedule with SotO, releasing quarterly. But I need you to shift your perspective. They're not doing this out of some kind of altruistic quest for the advancement of Guild Wars 2. They sold you an unfinished product, and you bought it. Technically they could do nothing now and you've got no recourse. This is testing the water for future releases like this and seeing just how much they can get away with with their customer base.