Anet you watch Twitch?

[Gendalfs.7521]

When I browse twitch channels I get mostly WvW and Raid. How these instances are least updated when most people are streaming it?

[LuRkEr.9462]

I've seen various ANet guys talk in Laranity, MightTeaPot, and Mukluk channels in the past.
WvW they are updating. Raid they have said they aren't updating and are now doing strikes.

[Omega.6801]

MMOs aren't the most streamable of games because they're more longform when compared to battle royale or fps. So twitch is not a great metric. That being said. Had you looked at the actual game and not twitch you would have seen a WvW event going on just last week. Raids, yes raids have been discontinued years ago and will never come back as ANet is doing strikes now which is basically the same with a different name, call them raids if it helps you.

Edited January 20 by Omega.6801

[Danikat.8537]

I suspect Anet prioritise what the majority of people in the game want to play over generating views for 3rd party videos on an unrelated website.

[Ashen.2907]

So, if 100k people were playing OW and no one was streaming it, but ten people were playing raids and one of them was streaming, it would be an indication that raids deserved more dev resources?

I am not arguing against raids and wvw getting more love, I am primarily a wvw player myself, but the logic in the opening post is misguided.

[Cernoch.8524]

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

So, if 100k people were playing OW and no one was streaming it, but ten people were playing raids and one of them was streaming, it would be an indication that raids deserved more dev resources?

Exactly!

I think people just like watching PvP (any kind of pvp) games more. Single player games are usually famous only when they are new and its similar to open world or pve. It is simply too boring to watch compare to pvp.

[Surelia.2651]

27 minutes ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

Exactly!

I think people just like watching PvP (any kind of pvp) games more. Single player games are usually famous only when they are new and its similar to open world or pve. It is simply too boring to watch compare to pvp.

Personally, I would rather play than watch others play.

But I think you are right.  On the occasion when the mood strikes,  I will sometimes pop on an sPvP stream because I enjoy that mode (or at least I used to), especially when the people engaged are doing well and are clearly good at it.  In comparison to WvW is it more interesting to me.  There is one GW2 stream I used to see a while back for example, from an Ele main who was insanely good on any spec he ran; can't think of his name now, but I got a huge kick out seeing what gifted hands can do with one; the brother was amazing 😆

 

[River Valley.2396]

Most people who watch streamers do it for the streamers, not the game.

There is some cross-pollination/promotion but I believe/hope Anet are smart enough not to hitch their trailer to that particular dataset.

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

When I browse twitch channels I get mostly WvW and Raid. How these instances are least updated when most people are streaming it?

Because "most streamed" is not the same as "most popular". Grouch raised that point in one of the Teapot's streams, and, apparently, Raids (for example) might be many things, but popular they are not.

There are two (well, three) things that skew the perception here. First, the primary GW2 content (open world) is just not very good for streaming purposes. Watching someone playing OW is most of the time (barring maybe some metaevents) like watching the grass grow. Next, we have to consider the streaming community (and not the streamers themselves, but rather those that watch that content). If you do that, you realize that the PvP/competitive and raid/instanced content communities are vastly overrepresented there. The "average casual" community for the most part is too casual to bother watching it. And if they do, they will go to YT first and watch at their own pace. And, obviously, streamers adjust their content for their viewers - they will hardly be streaming stuff noone is watching. And as for third point, it's just that GW2 streaming community is very, very small, and as such hardly representative of the whole game.

Edited January 21 by Astralporing.1957

[Tiviana.2650]

Imo it was a mistake to stop making raids and focus on strikes, the same people that didnt do raids dont like doing strikes either. So what you have are raiders trying to scratch that itch doing strike cms, and regular people only doing some strikes that are easy. but the demand for strikes is just almost as low as raids for the majority. Only doing them to complete WV stuff.  for the most part they sit abandoned unless they are up for the daily. And good luck getting a run for some of the harder ones, cant fill, and when you do it often fails. There is a pervasive anti instanced feeling in the GW2 community that shouldnt be. In most games people want to try everything at least test their mettle against bosses. But for some reason this games players are the most anti instanced content i ever seen. we should have gotten a wing 8 in EoD a canthan raid wing, but no, huge expansion with no raid content.

As for wvw i gave up on that. My hope for true alliances has withered and died

[Gendalfs.7521]

Thanks guys for reply. Saw many intersesting views. Tho I still cannot consume that WvW is SO forgotten. I get that OW is the most popular scene but but we know that already. Streamers purpose for greater good is to invite players in this game and when most streamed content is neglected it makes no sence.

Raids is not for everyone I get it. Im not raider myself.

PVP as it is is for same category of players that do that just for fun and theres no gear effect, its like fair shoot your enemy before it shoots you.

But WvW you need to grind gear and then you show up a little, its more interesting for invested players. Its like an engame?

Or I miss something?

[Omega.6801]

37 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

But WvW you need to grind gear and then you show up a little, its more interesting for invested players. Its like an engame?

Or I miss something?

Well, WvW (and to some degree PvP) was intended to be the games endgame but in eleven years it never really took off as it should. ANet really missed out in the early years and is only now making slight efforts, if you want to be optimistic, in developing the game mode.

As it stands now, GW2 is a classic PvE theme park MMO, where open world, story and instanced PvE content is the end game that progresses along the companies release schedule. These things are very popular with big parts of the playerbase so it's safe to say that ANet chose their focus well. WvW is still fun and it's more of a missed opportunity that ANet didn't do more with it.

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Imo it was a mistake to stop making raids and focus on strikes, the same people that didnt do raids dont like doing strikes either.

I don't know if this applies to anyone else but I'm far more likely to do a strike than a raid for the simple reason they're quicker. I just did the Mai Trin strike in under 10 minutes from joining the group to killing the boss (and that was with a training group and 2 players dying part-way through) whereas when I tried getting into raid training groups I was always told to allow 1-2 hours and maybe more if it goes badly. It's rare that I can commit that much time in one go, and even harder to make sure I'll be free when a raid has been scheduled.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

On 1/21/2024 at 4:32 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't know if this applies to anyone else but I'm far more likely to do a strike than a raid for the simple reason they're quicker. I just did the Mai Trin strike in under 10 minutes from joining the group to killing the boss (and that was with a training group and 2 players dying part-way through) whereas when I tried getting into raid training groups I was always told to allow 1-2 hours and maybe more if it goes badly. It's rare that I can commit that much time in one go, and even harder to make sure I'll be free when a raid has been scheduled.

All of this. I enjoy raiding, but it is nearly impossible for me to be able to dedicate a two hour period for just raiding. And since I'm old now, I tend to need to be in bed before the typical static raid times in my guilds. Strikes, even ones that can go pretty rough with inexperienced players, are short enough that I can do several in a row before I have to go take care of the real life stuff.

[Gendalfs.7521]

1 hour ago, RoseofGilead.8907 said:

Strikes, even ones that can go pretty rough with inexperienced players, are short enough that I can do several in a row before I have to go take care of the real life stuff

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

[kharmin.7683]

Just now, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

I wouldn't.  That doesn't interest me at all.

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

Nope.

I think a big part of why dedicated WvW people are so attached to that mode has to do with how un-casual the commitment is. Most people that I know who enjoy WvW aren't just popping in and out, and are 100% not there for the rewards. We've seen it before - putting a reward PvE players want into WvW only results in 

1. PvE players showing up, being salty that they're "forced" to do WvW, then leaving anyways, and
2. WvW players hating having so many useless, un-dedicated PvE carebears clogging up the queue and just being bags for the enemy.

I'm not saying Anet shouldn't be interested in making the competitive modes more attractive to more players, but just having one mode imitate another seems bad.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

28 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

Me, personally? No. I only do wvw when I have to for Gift of Battle.

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

That's called claiming a tower. You collect supply (maybe claiming a camp to get it), place siege and defend it while it's knocking the wall down, then you go in and kill the Lord and the guards and hold the claim point until it completes.

The big difference between that and PvE event is it doesn't scale to the number of players present. You might have nothing to do while defending the siege and only a few NPCs to fight inside, or you might get wiped out by a massive group coming through. Well that and most of the rewards in WvW come from getting your participation up and then waiting for the timer to tick down, so it's slightly more removed from what you're actually doing - claiming the tower might get you up another participation tier, but you won't get rewarded for it until later.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:30 PM, Tiviana.2650 said:

There is a pervasive anti instanced feeling in the GW2 community that shouldnt be.

Oh, and why is that exactly? Are we supposed to have fun only your way, and not any other?

On 1/21/2024 at 9:30 PM, Tiviana.2650 said:

In most games people want to try everything at least test their mettle against bosses.

I am sorry to be a bearer of the bad news, but there's a reason why something like "story difficulty" exists. Hint: It's not because it's not popular.

[Jedrik.3109]

Streamers are cringe.

 

End thread.

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

Streamers are cringe.

 

End thread.

and Twitch is on the ropes financially. Who knows if they will even exist much longer.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On 1/24/2024 at 12:22 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Would you do events in WvW short and rewarding enough to participate in them? Like open world bosses but in WvW environment?

Yes.  It is one of the many ideas I've had to spice up WvW, and that is to effectively put a raid-level boss that wanders around the map.  It gives rewards upon defeat, provides a randomized event for players to fight over, and also has the option to be really cool looking.  It's got to be hard, though, because it can have up to 150 players fighting it.  

[Sindust.7059]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:25 PM, RoseofGilead.8907 said:

All of this. I enjoy raiding, but it is nearly impossible for me to be able to dedicate a two hour period for just raiding. And since I'm old now, I tend to need to be in bed before the typical static raid times in my guilds. Strikes, even ones that can go pretty rough with inexperienced players, are short enough that I can do several in a row before I have to go take care of the real life stuff.

The question is what do you want to get out of the experience? If it's just killing some bosses to get loot, sure. But I like raids for the social aspect, which is lost in strikes, because the moment you join, you're already at the boss and you have to focus for 10 minutes, meaning no talk that is not about calling out mechanics, and the moment the boss is dead, everyone leaves. And there is no point joining voice either, because it's not worth it for the 10 minutes.

That's a problem that GW2 has in general, it seems to promote being alone in a crowd rather than create meaningful player to player interaction, and the abandonment of raids is just a small part of it. But that's a rant for another day and another thread.

[Tren.5120]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:52 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

When I browse twitch channels I get mostly WvW and Raid. How these instances are least updated when most people are streaming it?

Hardly anyone watches people stream GW2, relative to other games, and people tend to bias heavily towards PvP streamers over PvE for sandbox MMORPGs.

Why do you think there are so many PvP games (FPS, etc.) being released, and hardly any sandbox MMORPGs with comparable development budgets?

WoW, ESO, GW2, etc. are all PvP dominant on streaming services.

What people watch on Twitch is not indicative of what people actually play in game, so that would be a horrible metric to use for deciding where development resources go.

Even I have popped in and watched a PvP stream here and there, and I've probably spent less than 5 minutes over the entire life of this game in a PvP instance... and I doubt I'd ever go back into one again. I've been playing since well before the game had any expansions.  I simply watched it out of morbid curiosity, and because why would I waste any time watching someone PvE in any of these games?

Edited January 26 by Tren.5120