Is There any reason to use Staff weaver?

[Infinity.2876]

Is there any reason to use staff weaver?

If not, should changes be made?

If so, what would they look like?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

35 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

Is there any reason to use staff weaver?

If not, should changes be made?

If so, what would they look like?

No reason to use staff weaver aside from maybe WvW

 

Changes should be made

 

+1% damage increase on certain skills

-1% on others

[Stallic.2397]

(A)Weaver dual skills need to be easier to land and stronger. (B)Otherwise all skills on staff need to be upgraded.

However if you upgrade everything, all other classes will cry nerfs and the whole weapon gets trashed so I would not recommend option B

[Mega.5791]

Style.

 

No other reason.

[Jski.6180]

Staff duel skills should be unblockable or at least they need to not be projectiles.

Over all staff needs an major buff maybe even just giving ammo to the 5 skill for all atuments would go a long way to helping out staff as an mages wepon.

Edited January 21 by Jski.6180

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

My Ele is geared for Condi Weaver using staff for raids. Not quite as good as other Condi weapons (maybe max 10%? Like 4K less dps than an optimal weapon set) but can still bench well over 40k dps.

Doesnt do anything different or better than other builds, and can be more difficult, but being able to play a staff Ele rotation in a non-meme way feels very fun so I enjoy it.

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

so I enjoy it.

Since when are we allowed to enjoy the game? I thought we have to be meta slaves! Heresy!

(jk)

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

My Ele is geared for Condi Weaver using staff for raids. Not quite as good as other Condi weapons (maybe max 10%? Like 4K less dps than an optimal weapon set) but can still bench well over 40k dps.

Doesnt do anything different or better than other builds, and can be more difficult, but being able to play a staff Ele rotation in a non-meme way feels very fun so I enjoy it.

I'm interested. Are you using Viper? What are the traits and skills?

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

6 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I'm interested. Are you using Viper? What are the traits and skills?

I think the build is the exact same as the normal Condi weaver just swapping the weapon for a staff.

This is the video from Fennec I copied 6 months ago

 

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Since when are we allowed to enjoy the game? I thought we have to be meta slaves! Heresy!

(jk)

Would be nice if the build sites were more inclined to go 'you can use this other weapon instead, you'll do XYAB damage less on the benchmark but it might be useful for these specific things or just if you want to do something different' rather than only having the weapons that do the very best.

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

My Ele is geared for Condi Weaver using staff for raids. Not quite as good as other Condi weapons (maybe max 10%? Like 4K less dps than an optimal weapon set) but can still bench well over 40k dps.

Doesnt do anything different or better than other builds, and can be more difficult, but being able to play a staff Ele rotation in a non-meme way feels very fun so I enjoy it.

Its an real shame staff condi dmg fire ball and lava faunt dose not carry over to spvp or wvw.

But that has less to do with weaver and more to do with core ele effects so you can get condi dmg on staff in pve on all of ele not just weaver.

Edited January 25 by Jski.6180

[CafPow.1542]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Would be nice if the build sites were more inclined to go 'you can use this other weapon instead, you'll do XYAB damage less on the benchmark but it might be useful for these specific things or just if you want to do something different' rather than only having the weapons that do the very best.

Yeah would be cool. Especially the first one. I for example love D/D and i have no Problem going D/Wh but now i don’t know how mich i kitten myself with going dagger instead of sword ^^
but yeah, could be a nice idea.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Would be nice if the build sites were more inclined to go 'you can use this other weapon instead, you'll do XYAB damage less on the benchmark but it might be useful for these specific things or just if you want to do something different' rather than only having the weapons that do the very best

I agree, it would be nice being able to see what weapons or skills could be swapped out and what the damage loss for it will be.

SnowCrows never would because that’s not what they’re focused on, but it’s something that I’ve really liked about MetaBattle. In the Condi Weaver build they even mention that Staff is an option you can take. Unfortunately they don’t give any number for how much dps you lose or even the rotation you’d use so it’s not very accessible.

Edited January 25 by AlexndrTheGreat.8310

[tiagotatico.6304]

On 1/25/2024 at 4:04 AM, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

My Ele is geared for Condi Weaver using staff for raids. Not quite as good as other Condi weapons (maybe max 10%? Like 4K less dps than an optimal weapon set) but can still bench well over 40k dps.

Doesnt do anything different or better than other builds, and can be more difficult, but being able to play a staff Ele rotation in a non-meme way feels very fun so I enjoy it.

nope, it does not bench 40k, it used to before soto launch, but since then weaver got 2 nerfs, it should be 37-38k now

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, tiagotatico.6304 said:

nope, it does not bench 40k, it used to before soto launch, but since then weaver got 2 nerfs, it should be 37-38k now

They added relics with SotO though, so it's probably still somewhere around there.

[Khalisto.5780]

You either like the weapon or you playing wvw, no reason besides that.

Back in 2017/18  staff weaver was top dps, then they nerf it tto the ground

[tiagotatico.6304]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They added relics with SotO though, so it's probably still somewhere around there.

no, it was a damage loss for every elementalist build, access to warhorn made every ele build very strong, they nerfed to bring warhorn in line with other specs, making every other weapons worse, this leads to other weapons do less damage, dagger/dagger does now 3k less damage compared to before, scepter/focus does 2k less damage compared to before, staff wont be different

[Jski.6180]

Its odd staff weaver should be THE class that should have the max punishment for non mobile groups also known as the boon melee ball but its not only boon strips and condi spam can deal with such an set up in wvw. If any thing staff weaver has no real use vs groups like that and only are usable vs non organized groups or badly comp groups. Its mostly MS build in punishment for hitting the same target over and over as well as slow high telegraph skills that are blockable both both block skills and counter projectile.

Anet made some massive error for pve aimed balancing that carryed over to wvw but was never fixed when they made splits in the game types balancing.

Staff weaver in wvw needs dmg stacking effects for hitting the same targets as well as harder to stop effects. If they are slow hits that ok but they should hit very hard and punish ppl for standing in the effects.

Ele over all is not an position base class as there effects are not worth moving out of any more in wvw. Your better off being supported though the effects opening up the ele to being hit by much stronger and faster burst effects that have not been balanced with the same level of hate.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I've found the Dual Skills to be useful in WvW.  On the rare occasion where I'm zerging and not running tempest aura support, I'll sport full Marauder Staff Weaver, walking around in Earth/Air attunement for group swiftness and quick access to Static Field and Unsteady ground.  The greatest asset of staff to groups IMO is the wide area group CCs, paired with Lightning Rod to spread weakness.  The reason why I do this on Weaver as opposed to Tempest or Catalyst is the move Pile Driver.  It hits like a truck, which makes it great for hunting down individual players in the skirmish.    Depending on circumstances, I'll either swap to fire and throw down Lava Fonts + Pyroclastic Blast, or I'll swap to water for Lahar and Ice Spike.  In the very short term, having access to one or two additional skills means quite a bit.  I found that fights rarely stay under Meteor Shower, but Pyroclastic Blast + Lava Font can lay down some hurt pretty quickly without forcing me to belly up for their casts. 

Tempest can go through the attunements faster, but runs out of skills quicker and relies on the overload channels as its only backup.  I won't lie, the air overload can be quite useful in the skirmishing phase, but it puts a gigantic target on your back and it requires camping air for uncomfortable amounts of time.  The biggest strength for Tempest are all the shouts, which spread boons and some pretty strong effects far and wide.  Catalyst's elemental celerity is strong, but the traitline as a whole doesn't give much for staff users, and neither does its utilities.  Weaver provides the damage, cleanses, a few extra skills, and the only cost I really feel is the lack of quick access to Magnetic Aura from earth attunement.  

[Agrios.9071]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:38 PM, Jski.6180 said:

Staff duel skills should be unblockable or at least they need to not be projectiles.

Over all staff needs an major buff maybe even just giving ammo to the 5 skill for all atuments would go a long way to helping out staff as an mages wepon.

This would very much improve the gameplay experience in wvw. It feels like weaver is the biggest victim in the current china-chrono-supscourge meta. DPS tempest performs currently better... while having easier access to group support utility.

[Jski.6180]

55 minutes ago, Agrios.9071 said:

This would very much improve the gameplay experience in wvw. It feels like weaver is the biggest victim in the current china-chrono-supscourge meta. DPS tempest performs currently better... while having easier access to group support utility.

Ya its odd that the support and utility class even to some level core are all better at dps then the dps version of ele the weaver for staff. Even something as simple as giving weaver an self quickness would go an long way to fixing staff weaver in all game types.

[solemn.9670]

Still incredibly useful for WvW. Some players will try to tell you otherwise - this is because they're bad at game. With practice you'll top the DPS chart on staff weaver, or at least consistently get #2 and generate a lot of downs. Other than that, no, not that I'm aware. Yes it needs changes in all game modes.

Edited January 30 by solemn.9670

[draxynnic.3719]

22 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Ya its odd that the support and utility class even to some level core are all better at dps then the dps version of ele the weaver for staff. Even something as simple as giving weaver an self quickness would go an long way to fixing staff weaver in all game types.

Not sure this is quite as counterintuitive as that. While the dual skills mechanic was applied to all relevant weapons, weaver does feel a bit more like it's supposed to be using more selfish weapons like sword and scepter. Last I checked weaver builds were top DPS overall, but I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be best with every weapon - another elite specialisation synergising with staff better gives the other specialisations some more space to be viable DPS as well.

[Jski.6180]

37 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Not sure this is quite as counterintuitive as that. While the dual skills mechanic was applied to all relevant weapons, weaver does feel a bit more like it's supposed to be using more selfish weapons like sword and scepter. Last I checked weaver builds were top DPS overall, but I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be best with every weapon - another elite specialisation synergising with staff better gives the other specialisations some more space to be viable DPS as well.

The issues is most of the time the top dps dmg from weaver and realty all staff ele is coming from the core staff wepon. If say the dule skills on weaver where on part with the core staff wepon skill then weaver would be a very viable dmg class in wvw even with out the utility of cata and tempest BUT that just not how it is as things stand. Its like giving up utility for some very hard to land burst dmg skills and SOME barrier. Ontop of having a slower swap time to get to the staff big skills unless you run an utility.

Cata just an over all better staff dps class in wvw and tempest is better at staying alive with staff as well over what staff weaver can pull off. Its simply not worth it running weaver. Over all its not wroth running ele in wvw as things stand vs other classes but that is max min group play not too many ppl are playing wvw or even need to play wvw like that.

Weaver needs something even if its just an utility that makes it skills unblockable or give the weaver quickness or realy dose any thing because the stances weaver has are mostly melee base and def aimed which is an real shame for an dps aimed class. How did cata get more dps aimed utility effects then weaver did?!

[Infinity.2876]

Here are some ideas:

Spoiler

Because we have tempest for support, we don't really need to go into support heavily in with staff weaver. What we need is for it to fulfill a role as a large aoe caster through dual atks.

Pressure blast: Increase dmg, maybe add 1 or 2 might stacks. Aoe size is currently fine.

(reasoning: staff is still a support weapon but should be able to be used as a damaging one as well with the cost of dmg for larger aoe. Staff needs a way to ramp up dmg for weaver and this skill would be ideal for the change)

Plasma blast: increase radius, add burning, add blast finisher.

(Reasoning: plasma blast is our main dmging skill other than pyroclastic blast and should deal a burst of dmg at little cost while staying different from fire/air scepter.)

Pyroclastic blast: Increase radius and duration, increase initial impact dmg, and maybe add cripple.

(Reasoning: This should be a good skill for both dmg and a field for finishers. Its current duration is very, low and needs the boost to land the finishers)

Monsoon: Increase dmg interval, add swiftness, increase chill duration, and increase radius, add whirl finisher maybe.

(Reasoning: Monsoon should be like a monsoon in real life with high wind speed corresponding with the interval increase and increased chill duration, I also find this skill very hard to hit reliably so the increase in radius is nice. Of course, staff needs more finishers and whirl is a good selfish one for dmg)

Lahar: Increase stability stacks on self by one or two, increase dmg 

(Reasoning: The idea behind Lahar is not that it's a very threatening skill but being able to rack up some stability will help us with casting longer cast skills (Meteor shower and pile driver) without being interrupted, of course we have to make it self so we don't get nerfed tho)

Pile Driver: add knockback, increase dmg significantly. Add unblockable maybe?

(Reasoning: If anyone gets hit by a 1 and a half second cast, they deserve a punishment in dmg and cc. The daze for this skill in the past has made it unusable because the reward is so limited. This will remedy a bit of that.)