Elementalists need to get nerfed.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:41 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

This goes literally for every class out there, you get called OP, salt whispered, tanky shitter, stats abuser, hacker etc etc....if you dodge/survive the usual wambo combo ...copy pasted from somewhere. The vast vast majority of GW2 players effectively don't know that dodging is a think...like is kiting and LoS...most GW2 players are just straight line movement wambo combo and straight to the forum if you don't die to them and actually win instead

lol. The times I have had players whisper running FOTM Meta much blah blah blah. I really have no idea what people consider meta, I don't really care. I theory craft, thanks again gw2skill.net +100 from me!, use a build editor and then try a buildout that looks fun and effective for the roles I am planning with it and see if it sticks. If it does it gets in the list of toons and stays until Anet changes too much that it needs reworked. If it doesn't it gets reworked and created for another role/goal.

[Jski.6180]

57 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Did you watch the video when they released the one of the balance patches that further nerfed anti-boon? They stated they were trying to encourage more melee fights. Ok, I run a number of melee only toons so that sounds good.

But the thought was a melee player didn't want to jump into a fight and have their boons removed. Versus they didn't think that a melee player doesn't want to jump into a group that had all the boons already up. Less anti-boon really doesn't help Melee at all since it means you may not lose your boon but nor will they so you are still in more risking of diving into a booned up group and more so if you aren't in a boon group so its even worse with less anti-boon. 😁 DOH!

I think boons need hp gates or hit gates (once you get hit enofe the boon just falls off) putting boon strip and croupion at the only means of counter play is not good balancing unless you give every class such effects.

[Codename T.2847]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think boons need hp gates or hit gates (once you get hit enofe the boon just falls off) putting boon strip and croupion at the only means of counter play is not good balancing unless you give every class such effects.

Again turning serious for a second, I think what would be cool ,if they could manage to implement it somehow, is giving boons and condis the treatment that I saw in a mobile gacha fighting game (Which might sounds stupid but it actually has a pretty complex and well thought out combat system) where buffs can overwrite debuffs and make them disappear and vice-versa. Example being, if you get hit by a skill that gives you bleed, you can apply regen to yourself to get rid of the bleed and so on. I think this would make it so that condi application in zergs for example would actually have a point; doing kinda what necro does (or did) already and also making the healers of squads run for their money potentionally, instead of just the kind of almost passive gameplay some of them tend to have nowadays. Also in 1v1 it would make people rethink matchups they can and can't fight in, and knowing just what kind of condis and boons each class has can become even more important ^^

[Jski.6180]

21 minutes ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Again turning serious for a second, I think what would be cool ,if they could manage to implement it somehow, is giving boons and condis the treatment that I saw in a mobile gacha fighting game (Which might sounds stupid but it actually has a pretty complex and well thought out combat system) where buffs can overwrite debuffs and make them disappear and vice-versa. Example being, if you get hit by a skill that gives you bleed, you can apply regen to yourself to get rid of the bleed and so on. I think this would make it so that condi application in zergs for example would actually have a point; doing kinda what necro does (or did) already and also making the healers of squads run for their money potentionally, instead of just the kind of almost passive gameplay some of them tend to have nowadays. Also in 1v1 it would make people rethink matchups they can and can't fight in, and knowing just what kind of condis and boons each class has can become even more important ^^

From the 1v1 point of view ele has no counter to boon / sustain and no counter to stealth. Kind of the only class like that if you look at elite spec as well. The game is not balanced for 1v1 keep that in mind.

Edited February 3 by Jski.6180

[Ferus.3165]

On 2/3/2024 at 11:54 PM, Jski.6180 said:

From the 1v1 point of view ele has no counter to boon / sustain and no counter to stealth. Kind of the only class like that if you look at elite spec as well. The game is not balanced for 1v1 keep that in mind.

many classes have no specific counter to boons/sustain or have reveal. Cele ele is extremely durable, does very good damage and depending on the weaponset is also extremely mobile. Catalyst for example handles 1vx situations better than any other class (aside from stealth spamming thieves) and doesn't just manage to survive outnumbered situations but with all it's aoe and 100% uptime on stabiliy and almost every other boon in the game it has very good kill pressure. There is also almost no class with comparable sustain, utility and damage (maybe harbinger but harbinger gets destroyed in any outnumbered fight and is hardcountered by projectile blocks).

[Sonork.2916]

6 hours ago, Ferus.3165 said:

many classes have no specific counter to boons/sustain or have reveal. Cele ele is extremely durable, does very good damage and depending on the weaponset is also extremely mobile. Catalyst for example handles 1vx situations better than any other class (aside from stealth spamming thieves) and doesn't just manage to survive outnumbered situations but with all it's aoe and 100% uptime on stabiliy and almost every other boon in the game it has very good kill pressure. There is also almost no class with comparable sustain, utility and damage (maybe harbinger but harbinger gets destroyed in any outnumbered fight and is hardcountered by projectile blocks).

The Staunch Auras trait is the biggest offender here imo.  It basically says they get infinite stab at the drop of a hat by simply doing what they would do anyways.  Effectively making them immune to hard cc in small scale fights.

Edited February 13 by Sonork.2916

[Jski.6180]

4 hours ago, Ferus.3165 said:

many classes have no specific counter to boons/sustain or have reveal. Cele ele is extremely durable, does very good damage and depending on the weaponset is also extremely mobile. Catalyst for example handles 1vx situations better than any other class (aside from stealth spamming thieves) and doesn't just manage to survive outnumbered situations but with all it's aoe and 100% uptime on stabiliy and almost every other boon in the game it has very good kill pressure. There is also almost no class with comparable sustain, utility and damage (maybe harbinger but harbinger gets destroyed in any outnumbered fight and is hardcountered by projectile blocks).

Most classes have an hard hitting condi of 5k+ (any time they want) or they have boon strip or they have poisoin or they have do more dmg vs ppl with boons ele has non of thoughts.

Also are we just going to pretend other classes don't have self support? Ele gets strong self support if they build for it and they MUST build for it unlike other classes who get self support for free.

Edited February 13 by Jski.6180

[TheGrimm.5624]

Class adjustments due to skills, armor, stats, elites are better served in the profession sub forums. 

[CafPow.1542]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Class adjustments due to skills, armor, stats, elites are better served in the profession sub forums. 

Oh but then the eles will tell you something.

armor and hp are the lowest of all classes. At least, double the hp! 
and the dps is superbad PLUS you gotta be in melee always and forever, i think the dps needs to be buffed about 20-30% flat to be comparable cause eles always have to swap and press so many buttons and plan ahead for HOURS, no…. DAYS (!!!) even, if they eventually consider that some CC is needed therefore, every skill needs to apply 200 breakbardamage (unblockable ofc) in order to be even relevant to other specs.

yes.

buff ele infact.

….

stuff you hear in class subforums. They are even sillier than the wvw subforum. It’s a blast 😄

Edited February 14 by CafPow.1542

[Sirvaleen.1379]

I thought it was a necroed thread for a second, 'cause it seriously was relevant - months ago. Nowadays ? Huh.. let's just say elems don't go roaming alone obliterating the world. At all. But then after reading "anyone who mains elementalist is just a noob carried" "i never actually played elementalist".. it's way more clear. Honestly, stop erroneously titling your threads. "I don't like fighting Elementalists, kill them all for me please" would be more appropriate.

Personally I hate fighting mesmers, I should go make a thread I guess ? Though I also surprisingly find that getting my kitten handed to me make things more interesting sometimes so. Nah.

[Tinker.6924]

I'm sure this is meant as a tongue-in-cheek thread

[Jski.6180]

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Class adjustments due to skills, armor, stats, elites are better served in the profession sub forums. 

Post where ppl post the forms are kind of all over the places. Also its a good way to point out issues with the point of views.

Wvw needs more counter sustain for sure but it needs to be in the means of relics and sigils there just not enofe (if you got to stun some one to strip there boons and there boon is stab then your not going to strip the stab just the stab stacks) its an bad way to counter boons. As well as "bomb pAoE" on skill is also a bad means of counter boons as ppl can simply walk out of them to counter the effect. We need things like on utility skill crit strip boons (a wepon kit conaj wepon skill on crit maybe too powerful.)

[manu.7539]

9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Class adjustments due to skills, armor, stats, elites are better served in the profession sub forums. 

WvW and PVE builds are just not the same. There is less confusion when WvW builds are discussed here imo.

[manu.7539]

Some said eles got ez perma stab, tons of boons and hit like a truck. It is certainly not true for all builds, especially weavers.

Compared to most class eles got very few gimmicks to complain about. They got no stealth, no reveal, no pulls, no unblockable, no port, no clowns (clones), no boonstrip and cant even get the moa elite to replace all the bad elite ele skills. In my build, they only gimmick is a downstate skill (vapor form) that rarely save me anyway, is it enough to have anyone complaining?

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Oh but then the eles will tell you something.

armor and hp are the lowest of all classes. At least, double the hp! 
and the dps is superbad PLUS you gotta be in melee always and forever, i think the dps needs to be buffed about 20-30% flat to be comparable cause eles always have to swap and press so many buttons and plan ahead for HOURS, no…. DAYS (!!!) even, if they eventually consider that some CC is needed therefore, every skill needs to apply 200 breakbardamage (unblockable ofc) in order to be even relevant to other specs.

yes.

buff ele infact.

….

stuff you hear in class subforums. They are even sillier than the wvw subforum. It’s a blast 😄

 

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Post where ppl post the forms are kind of all over the places. Also its a good way to point out issues with the point of views.

Wvw needs more counter sustain for sure but it needs to be in the means of relics and sigils there just not enofe (if you got to stun some one to strip there boons and there boon is stab then your not going to strip the stab just the stab stacks) its an bad way to counter boons. As well as "bomb pAoE" on skill is also a bad means of counter boons as ppl can simply walk out of them to counter the effect. We need things like on utility skill crit strip boons (a wepon kit conaj wepon skill on crit maybe too powerful.)

 

54 minutes ago, manu.7539 said:

Some said eles got ez perma stab, tons of boons and hit like a truck. It is certainly not true for all builds, especially weavers.

Compared to most class eles got very few gimmicks to complain about. They got no stealth, no reveal, no pulls, no unblockable, no port, no clowns (clones), no boonstrip and cant even get the moa elite to replace all the bad elite ele skills. In my build, they only gimmick is a downstate skill (vapor form) that rarely save me anyway, is it enough to have anyone complaining?

🙂 

Don't get me wrong. You will face other issues in the class subforums. The difference here is that too many think that they will ever see balance while out in WvW and/or will imply that to others that are just reading the forums and may not be part of the conversation. The reason I point to the class subforums is that there people might be at least be of more equal footing versus saying, how am I building out while expecting to run into a 50 while we just have 5. In these subforums players will be trying to talk balance in terms that are never equal since they will be coming at in a 1v1, 5v5, 10v50 50v50v50 view point. There is no common ground here when talking balance. If anything we need to a subforum here and get posters to agree on what level of play are we talking in when saying nerf or buff class x.

WvW forums, lets get changes to the game mode for all classes and save the class changes to a place that the class devs might take a look at it. I can't even guess what devs are WvW devs at this point.

[Triptaminas.4789]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:08 AM, Codename T.2847 said:

^ As the title says, I think elementalist is the most kittenous class inside WvW at the moment and should get brought down to the level of other classes. 

I'm sick of people pretending it takes any form of nuance, prerequisite knowledge or thousands of hours of class playtime to get good on ele, when you can just pick up TWO weapons (Scepter and focus, instruments of the devil) and kill everything with ease and laugh while doing it! 

They have absurdly high damage, and an absurd amount of active defenses like invulns and blocks and their base amount of two evades. (They might have more idk i never actually played elementalist) Anyway, the main takeaway here being that anyone who mains elementalist is just a noob carried by OP weapons and obscene amounts of boonspam and CC and everything! Not to mention the 3 elite spec weapons which just add fuel to the fire, and are not terribly mid at all, making Elementalist a clear winner of weapon mastery training.

So yeah, the conclusion is simple. Absolutely start condemning entire classes even without any knowledge on them because it is totally based and you should really be doing that if you want to show those nasty [insert good players on other class] just how wrong they are. 

See you in the mists, suckers!

Balance team is ele mains, current heads of anet is ele mains.

Favoritism is real and discord leaks have proven it beyond any doubt.

Ele will continue to be cheatcode which u use when u dont need intellectual gratification in your gameplays.

Just deal with it, its not like its many eles runing around, nothing will ever change about this and complaining is fruitless

[CafPow.1542]

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

 

🙂 

Don't get me wrong. You will face other issues in the class subforums. The difference here is that too many think that they will ever see balance while out in WvW and/or will imply that to others that are just reading the forums and may not be part of the conversation. The reason I point to the class subforums is that there people might be at least be of more equal footing versus saying, how am I building out while expecting to run into a 50 while we just have 5. In these subforums players will be trying to talk balance in terms that are never equal since they will be coming at in a 1v1, 5v5, 10v50 50v50v50 view point. There is no common ground here when talking balance. If anything we need to a subforum here and get posters to agree on what level of play are we talking in when saying nerf or buff class x.

WvW forums, lets get changes to the game mode for all classes and save the class changes to a place that the class devs might take a look at it. I can't even guess what devs are WvW devs at this point.

I doubt it. In the class forums they also take pve n stuff into account but mostly my impression of these (all of them) is, that it’s an incredible saltmine.

In every class forum there is no doubt that anets hates this profession (and only this one) very hard and nerfs them always and the others never and life is unfair.

not saying the wvw forum is any better ^^

[Codename T.2847]

15 hours ago, Tinker.6924 said:

I'm sure this is meant as a tongue-in-cheek thread

Yes 😛

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

not saying the wvw forum is any better ^^

I think you have seen me say, and if you haven't let me say it again, never underestimate an Ele. Ele and Engi have lots and lots and lots of build options that trying to assume which way they went before you get into a dustup is anyone's games. Would I say nerf, no. Both Ele and Engi are high rotation builds, does that make them OP, no. Does it make them even better for players that react faster and are better at rotations, yes. I watch but don't post in the class subforms much since it has a range of players but still point WvW players there since it has that range of players that might have a better chance to find that middle ground between a class issue and a player just being good at a class make the class look better than it is.

 

[CafPow.1542]

14 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I think you have seen me say, and if you haven't let me say it again, never underestimate an Ele. Ele and Engi have lots and lots and lots of build options that trying to assume which way they went before you get into a dustup is anyone's games. Would I say nerf, no. Both Ele and Engi are high rotation builds, does that make them OP, no. Does it make them even better for players that react faster and are better at rotations, yes. I watch but don't post in the class subforms much since it has a range of players but still point WvW players there since it has that range of players that might have a better chance to find that middle ground between a class issue and a player just being good at a class make the class look better than it is.

 

Sure but it’s more about sore crybabies and they are found all across the board in all subforums.

eles can’t do sh*t cause they have to swap around.

necros die to fast cause they have almost no defensive boons.

mesmers get nerfed all the time and are basically dead since vanilla.

thiefs lack mobility and stealth and are generally bad and only the godlike skill of thiefmains makes them kinda viable.

engis think the kits suck cause bad

rangers have bad weapons and the pets are braindead.

revenants can’t do anything they prolly should be able to swap between all legendaries like ele atunments

guardians have no heal, no damage and no mobility whatsoever that’s why they „need“ willys (who is underperforming ofc) and they are NEVER taken in grps cause they are bad.

and warriors would like to be bannerslaves again i guess cause that was their only usefulness.

 

while some of those points are not entirely wrong, most whining in the subforums is so overdramatic like a mexican telenovela that you might die of cringe reading it and they are all the same.

really nobody should take anything here serious, everything is to be taken with a grain of salt. It has some truth in it but is mostly just QQ. And most players don’t care and just play the game for fun wich is the best thing. I’m just here for the lulz.

Edited February 15 by CafPow.1542

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, CafPow.1542 said:

Sure but it’s more about sore crybabies and they are found all across the board in all subforums.

eles can’t do sh*t cause they have to swap around.

necros die to fast cause they have almost no defensive boons.

mesmers get nerfed all the time and are basically dead since vanilla.

thiefs lack mobility and stealth and are generally bad and only the godlike skill of thiefmains makes them kinda viable.

engis think the kits suck cause bad

rangers have bad weapons and the pets are braindead.

revenants can’t do anything they prolly should be able to swap between all legendaries ele arunments.

guardians have no heal, no damage and no mobility whatsoever that’s why they „need“ willys (who is underperforming ofc) and they are NEVER taken in grps cause they are bad.

and warriors would like to be bannerslaves again i guess cause that was their only usefulness.

 

while some of those points are not entirely wrong, most whining in the subforums is so overdramatic like a mexican telenovela that you might die of cringe reading it and they are all the same.

🙂 This would be one to have a pint over and discuss. Tl;dr version: Players will be biased, even more on one class they don't play or that countered theirs. 

Just now, CafPow.1542 said:

really nobody should take anything here serious, everything is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Agree in general, but we also have to watchful since we have seen assumptions by Anet that everyone agreed and that triggered a change that was not welcome until it was applied and then the backlash triggered follow-up changes. So best to intercept them before they are considered live.

Just now, CafPow.1542 said:

It has some truth in it but is mostly just QQ. And most players don’t care and just play the game for fun wich is the best thing. I’m just here for the lulz.

🙂 The lulz is the key point, we want peeps having fun so nothing wrong with that. What we don't want is Anet seeing one side of a post and saying nerf class x and no one defending leading to nerfs that were not needed in WvW. Hence why I defend a lot of classes since a lot of players think its the class versus its the unpredictable numbers in a three sided fight.

[CafPow.1542]

3 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 This would be one to have a pint over and discuss. Tl;dr version: Players will be biased, even more on one class they don't play or that countered theirs

Exactly. And i know i am biased too. It’s hard to try to be as neutral as possible and i fail a lot myself.

 

4 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Agree in general, but we also have to watchful since we have seen assumptions by Anet that everyone agreed and that triggered a change that was not welcome until it was applied and then the backlash triggered follow-up changes. So best to intercept them before they are considered live.

Sure aswell and i am really not only here for the lulz, but also cause i like arguing about nonsense (like a videogame). And arguing can lead to something. Just don’t be to serious about it in general … that’s what i wanted to say i guess.

 

6 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 The lulz is the key point, we want peeps having fun so nothing wrong with that. What we don't want is Anet seeing one side of a post and saying nerf class x and no one defending leading to nerfs that were not needed in WvW. Hence why I defend a lot of classes since a lot of players think its the class versus its the unpredictable numbers in a three sided fight.

Yep. We are good fren.

i … basically defend everything. I defend willies and thieves tho i hate them and mostly lose against them (cause i suck).

i agree that there are issues with some aspects but i feel like mostly it’s fine. There is a chance that anet sees stuff here and maybe uses parts of it, and i agree with you that we have to participate in the arguments (if we want).

being to salty about something or being to positive about something just makes me look more biased which is not helpful.

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Exactly. And i know i am biased too. It’s hard to try to be as neutral as possible and i fail a lot myself.

 

Sure aswell and i am really not only here for the lulz, but also cause i like arguing about nonsense (like a videogame). And arguing can lead to something. Just don’t be to serious about it in general … that’s what i wanted to say i guess.

 

Yep. We are good fren.

i … basically defend everything. I defend willies and thieves tho i hate them and mostly lose against them (cause i suck).

i agree that there are issues with some aspects but i feel like mostly it’s fine. There is a chance that anet sees stuff here and maybe uses parts of it, and i agree with you that we have to participate in the arguments (if we want).

being to salty about something or being to positive about something just makes me look more biased which is not helpful.

🙂 Good hunting!

[Gotejjeken.1267]

23 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

and the pets are braindead.

Yes

[Chrome.9841]

We just need caps for some stats 😕 You can win a 1 vs 1 with minstrel catalyst, harbinger, core necro (with fear build), untamed, lifesteal revevant and mechanist these days (tested). Haven't tried yet but probably minstrel druid too. 

ArenaNet pls stop this 😞 You have a lot of stat oppurtunities, why are you pushing everyone to play tanky builds. You saw that was a bad idea and removed semi offensive, mainly defensive stats from sPvP. Give us some caps for WvW at least like "can't have more than 2500 armor, 20% boon duration, more than 50% condition duration (numbers are random for examples)... That will  give some fair fights for people who likes playing pure power builds. (I know there are some builds like willbender, deadeye.. I mean power builds for all classes/specs)