Boon Ball Meta is Stale

[Salt Mode.3780]

So as the title says seems like ANET wants to perpetuate this boonball zergfest meta in WvW by destroying more boon rips/boon corrupts in the game, its no surprise really because whenever you see an ANET tag they are always in a large zerg trying their hardest to survive considering its not uncommon to also see them die to a camp. 

There are more boon output then there is strips, it is much easier and faster to cleanse and reapply boons then it is to corrupt/strip them. I don't know what the balance team's philosophy is when it comes to the absurd amount of boons in WvW, but compared to core days when it was more balanced, getting 25 might stacks required 2 guardians/ele's to blast combo finish in fire field. 

Edited February 18 by Salt Mode.3780

[Jasonbdj.4021]

am sure later anet will give beloved guardians rips/boon corrupt in the next balance update to fix this problem..

[CafPow.1542]

7 hours ago, Jasonbdj.4021 said:

am sure later anet will give beloved guardians rips/boon corrupt in the next balance update to fix this problem..

Yeah they clearly need that!

can‘t be something they can’t do.

[Guy.9207]

I'm a bit out of the loop, but are you saying that this game's balance turned out to be as it is, simply because Anet devs can't survive against enemy players without it?

[Beddo.1907]

13 hours ago, Jasonbdj.4021 said:

am sure later anet will give beloved guardians rips/boon corrupt in the next balance update to fix this problem..

And they will make sure it's on slots that are not needed for stab.

[Tinker.6924]

If anet really wanted to counter boon balls they would make boon rip/corrupt skills better  in competitive play, not nerf  one of the sources of those skills. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

2 hours ago, Tinker.6924 said:

If anet really wanted to counter boon balls they would make boon rip/corrupt skills better  in competitive play, not nerf  one of the sources of those skills. 

Nah, less rock-paper-scissors, more dynamic thinking and individual player self-preservation.  It's the only way out.

More strips/corrupts still doesn't solve the problem where having less boons is just objectively worse than more boons.  Unless you want to allow all boons to be optional and make non-boon-providing traits and skills just objectively superior to the ones which offer them.  If you have a random source of a single stack of might in your kit, congrats, you get hit even harder by corrupts than if you can generate 25 very quickly.   Or where if you need that extra crit chance from Fury for just three seconds in order to land a reliable combo as a core pillar of your build to execute someone, a multi-way cannot be outplayed because you'll probably never be able to build into that reliability and actually get it.

Boon gameplay should require thinking and planning around brief windows of extra strength, be it either in reaction via defense/standing ground and tipping a fight with your enemy having a false sense of confidence, or proactively in hyper-aggression via forcing extra resources/cooldowns at the onset of a fight so you're more neutral as it goes on longer.

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

13 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Nah, less rock-paper-scissors, more dynamic thinking and individual player self-preservation.  It's the only way out.

More strips/corrupts still doesn't solve the problem where having less boons is just objectively worse than more boons.  Unless you want to allow all boons to be optional and make non-boon-providing traits and skills just objectively superior to the ones which offer them.  If you have a random source of a single stack of might in your kit, congrats, you get hit even harder by corrupts than if you can generate 25 very quickly.   Or where if you need that extra crit chance from Fury for just three seconds in order to land a reliable combo as a core pillar of your build to execute someone, a multi-way cannot be outplayed because you'll probably never be able to build into that reliability and actually get it.

Boon gameplay should require thinking and planning around brief windows of extra strength, be it either in reaction via defense/standing ground and tipping a fight with your enemy having a false sense of confidence, or proactively in hyper-aggression via forcing extra resources/cooldowns at the onset of a fight so you're more neutral as it goes on longer.

 

Look let me paint the picture for you :

Since the past two or so years, many people have been "embracing" Anet's idea of streamlining the game. Streamlining means, consolidating all the skills effects, in a way that simplifies them down into only one thing instead of 10 different things...like streamlining all target cap skills to be 5 or less...removing unique buffs into just boons, making mechanics and elements of the game, behave similarly for the sake of balance and cross class design consistency, designing the Elite Specs to follow the same generic design structure (DPS line on Top, Condi line Middle, Support line bottom etc...) and the list can go on.

So now I present the following situation. You ask A-net about the design of a new elements that are put into the game, now in lue of knowing about their streamline procedure i described above. You see skills like this : 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Journey

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Imagery

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Singularity_Shot

so the question is...should you be surprised that all of the skills would have nothing but boon granting effects? Well no you shouldn't be surprised...because the game has been for the past 2 years streamlining out of existence all the unique mechanics of the game for this streamlined experience. The answer to the next question becomes obvious...where do all the boons come from? They come the result of phasing out of existence, all the unique mechanics that these skills could have had.

Another way to think about the same exact proposal. Lets say you just deleted every single boon corruption/boon removal from the game today. Would you still have a boon problem in the game? yes. The only way you would solve your boon problem is by getting rid of boons of the skills. If you had removed all the other unique mechanics in the game...then what else would skills do? They would just be damage or healing skills right? Congratulations you have successfully destroyed the game you might as well go play hamburger adventure mobile.

In essence the solution here is the opposite of nerfing boons...its adding unique things to the game (so that skills can actually be designed with something OTHER than boon granting effects) and said unique things should add dimensions of counter play to other unique things. 

Btw I'm not disagreeing with everything you said. Like you said, skills and elements in the game in general should have the property that they should require thinking and planning. But thinking and planning are not truly solved by nerfing things or removing the element of counter-play to strategy, Spam reduction is induced as a result of non-linear dynamic tradeoffs...basically tradeoffs that are not static, and you as an autonomous agent must consider when activating a skill, for the purpose of performing a real-time evaluation of whether pressing the skill is going to benefit, or detriment you. Skills in guild wars 2 simply don't have this, making spam across all skills optimal. So its not specifically a boon related issue its bad design choice from gw2 launch issue.

Anyway...so long as people subscribe to the idea of streamlining, your just gonna always have this boonspam. You buy what you pay for, and thats a very simple arrangment. If you dont want unique mechanics or counterplay, then enjoy the spamming of boons or stick wars 2. there's not much else to it. 

Edited February 19 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Burnfall.9573]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:22 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

So as the title says seems like ANET wants to perpetuate this boonball zergfest meta in WvW by destroying more boon rips/boon corrupts in the game, its no surprise really because whenever you see an ANET tag they are always in a large zerg trying their hardest to survive considering its not uncommon to also see them die to a camp. 

There are more boon output then there is strips, it is much easier and faster to cleanse and reapply boons then it is to corrupt/strip them. I don't know what the balance team's philosophy is when it comes to the absurd amount of boons in WvW, but compared to core days when it was more balanced, getting 25 might stacks required 2 guardians/ele's to blast combo finish in fire field. 

Agree

now take a look at this upcoming Mesmer Profession: Super Over-Powered Boon build which will soon be "nerfed". Once, again Bad Design can not be nerfed. Solution: complete removal or reworked from the drawing board. Once again; Mesmer Profession Bad Design continues getting the last laugh again and again for more years to come.

Enjoy while it continues last

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_zBknKRvWk

 

Edited February 19 by Burnfall.9573

[Jski.6180]

At least most classes are being used now then before though that always subject to changes. The game needs more un-class related boon strip for sure just throwing all of the boon hate on 2-3 classes is not going to fix any thing.

[XenesisII.1540]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

At least most classes are being used now then before though that always subject to changes. The game needs more un-class related boon strip for sure just throwing all of the boon hate on 2-3 classes is not going to fix any thing.

They've been nerfing the strips on those classes the past 3 years, that isn't going to fix anything either...

 

 

[Jski.6180]

8 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

They've been nerfing the strips on those classes the past 3 years, that isn't going to fix anything either...

 

 

Adding in more relic and sigile that counter boons would go a long way to dealing with boon ball. They are high cost slots that are non classes related and will enable non boon spam classes such as mez to become part of the current meta.

Even after the years of nerfs to though classes for boon strip they are still highly wanted because they are the only means of boon strip in any real way.

[XenesisII.1540]

40 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Adding in more relic and sigile that counter boons would go a long way to dealing with boon ball. They are high cost slots that are non classes related and will enable non boon spam classes such as mez to become part of the current meta.

Even after the years of nerfs to though classes for boon strip they are still highly wanted because they are the only means of boon strip in any real way.

I'm surprised they even did a boon strip relic tbh, and they keep a tight leash on sigils. Sigil of absorption fits into this category that anyone could use, but they nerfed, I mean "fixed", that. Would be nice to spread out strips some more, except for guard or ele specs they already do too much other stuff. They even tried putting boon strip on untamed but that was a failure of sorts. But in any case anet would actually have to be interested in a balance between boons and strips, and they're really not. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited February 19 by XenesisII.1540

[Jski.6180]

4 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm surprised they even did a boon strip relic tbh, and they keep a tight leash on sigils. Sigil of absorption fits into this category that anyone could use, but they nerfed, I mean "fixed", that. Would be nice to spread out strips some more, except for guard or ele specs they already do too much. They even tried putting boon strip on untamed but that was a failure of sorts. But in any case anet would actually have to be interested in a balance between boons and strips, and they're really not. 🤷‍♂️

 

A lot of though relic are base off of bombs meta not consist boon strip. Sadly the sigil of absorption is hard counter by stab making it kind of pointless most of the time.

I want to see more spam-able boon strip from relics and sigil that only need to have though given tools on and not some other effect to trigger them. If your elite skills are on a long cd elite skill base relics become worst. Also having to hard cc means some classes are better at using absorption then others and the stab issues.

[DeceiverX.8361]

9 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Look let me paint the picture for you :

Since the past two or so years, many people have been "embracing" Anet's idea of streamlining the game. Streamlining means, consolidating all the skills effects, in a way that simplifies them down into only one thing instead of 10 different things...like streamlining all target cap skills to be 5 or less...removing unique buffs into just boons, making mechanics and elements of the game, behave similarly for the sake of balance and cross class design consistency, designing the Elite Specs to follow the same generic design structure (DPS line on Top, Condi line Middle, Support line bottom etc...) and the list can go on.

So now I present the following situation. You ask A-net about the design of a new elements that are put into the game, now in lue of knowing about their streamline procedure i described above. You see skills like this : 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Journey

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Imagery

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Singularity_Shot

so the question is...should you be surprised that all of the skills would have nothing but boon granting effects? Well no you shouldn't be surprised...because the game has been for the past 2 years streamlining out of existence all the unique mechanics of the game for this streamlined experience. The answer to the next question becomes obvious...where do all the boons come from? They come the result of phasing out of existence, all the unique mechanics that these skills could have had.

Another way to think about the same exact proposal. Lets say you just deleted every single boon corruption/boon removal from the game today. Would you still have a boon problem in the game? yes. The only way you would solve your boon problem is by getting rid of boons of the skills. If you had removed all the other unique mechanics in the game...then what else would skills do? They would just be damage or healing skills right? Congratulations you have successfully destroyed the game you might as well go play hamburger adventure mobile.

In essence the solution here is the opposite of nerfing boons...its adding unique things to the game (so that skills can actually be designed with something OTHER than boon granting effects) and said unique things should add dimensions of counter play to other unique things. 

Btw I'm not disagreeing with everything you said. Like you said, skills and elements in the game in general should have the property that they should require thinking and planning. But thinking and planning are not truly solved by nerfing things or removing the element of counter-play to strategy, Spam reduction is induced as a result of non-linear dynamic tradeoffs...basically tradeoffs that are not static, and you as an autonomous agent must consider when activating a skill, for the purpose of performing a real-time evaluation of whether pressing the skill is going to benefit, or detriment you. Skills in guild wars 2 simply don't have this, making spam across all skills optimal. So its not specifically a boon related issue its bad design choice from gw2 launch issue.

Anyway...so long as people subscribe to the idea of streamlining, your just gonna always have this boonspam. You buy what you pay for, and thats a very simple arrangment. If you dont want unique mechanics or counterplay, then enjoy the spamming of boons or stick wars 2. there's not much else to it. 

I know what they're doing.

Fact of the matter is this:

- More skills have been changed from being passive effects and stat modifiers to boons which makes for redundant traits and promotes the horrible metas like celestial builds like we have now.

- Boons are harder to balance power budgets for specific builds and playstyles with.  I'll use a very simple example:   HK makes thief crit on stealth attacks.  Burst Precision makes a War's Adrenal skill crit.  Old DP makes Necros in shroud crit.  MoF makes Mind Wrack crit.  These are distinct choices in *how* a build specializes and how it plays.  These specific traits can be tuned to be more or less mutually-exclusive with precision/crit as a whole or for specific builds, because they target a specific thing the build is operating around.  If all the professions did was "Gain Fury", and a power build overperforms because of crit reliability, suddenly you have a problem where the only outcome is nerfing either the ability to reliably crit for a specific subset of important actions, or nerfing the actual actions themselves.

- Boons are impossible to balance duration/power with the advent of concentration.  It's a permanently-moving target.

- Hyperinflation of boons overvalues corrupts and strips where boons can no longer be something optional to fill in small voids, because the risk of being actively punished or resource-starved while playing builds investing in genuinely rare short-term bonuses is just too high.  With boon denial preventing thin-margin builds from being functional, you limit diversity.

- Most core game weapons and skills in their respective mobility are still based around most builds not even having permanent swiftness when it comes to things like dash distance and cooldowns.  Let alone superspeed supplied by cheap permanent swiftness.

- Concentration inherently extending *all* boons makes for shorter windows of weakness in general which makes for less opportunistic and interesting gameplay between players.  If you can't capitalize on moments of weakness the entirety of combat boils down to "who's got more robotic and consistently optimized rotations/who uses macros to out-grind the other person."

- Quickness and Alacrity are absolutely obscene in their impacts to PvP environments and wildly cut into combat clarity.  Combos suddenly become much harder to counter from Quickness negating so much casting time so regularly, and if you're not counting seconds on Alacrity uptime and doing the math in real-time on active cooldown status, you just don't have a method of cooldown tracking reliably, which *is* how high-level PvP plays out.  If someone is running lots of both, they have unpredictable combos that can't really even be reacted to.  That's objectively bad for any PvP environment.  Even an "invisible" 20% reduction is better, because a quicker-than-usual cast can easily be attributed to said trait, also mutually-exclusively locking out others.  If the player really knows a lot about the opposing class, they can do really well to know exactly which traits they're running.  Short of watching the boon timers, this just isn't the case when all effects feed into a common few buckets.

So yeah, even though ANet is proclaiming that they're trying to make skills have a higher degree of consistency and simplification, it's frankly making their game harder to understand in the PvP formats.

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

In PvE context I understand the boon uptime and availability towards it, however boon strips/booncorrupts don't affect PvE that much. A quick fix is to give every class easy accessible boon strips/corrupts instead of a kitten relic that is the same CD as your elite. Surprisingly the game was more balanced in core days even when AoE skills were not limited.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

4 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

- Hyperinflation of boons overvalues corrupts and strips where boons can no longer be something optional to fill in small voids, because the risk of being actively punished or resource-starved while playing builds investing in genuinely rare short-term bonuses is just too high.  With boon denial preventing thin-margin builds from being functional, you limit diversity.

 

I think i agree with practically everything you said, except this. boons existing, creates roles and a niche for boon strip like builds. The more people that bring boons, the more people that bring strips and that is an intentional thing...because boon strip regulate the existence of boons. And obviously, in any well designed game, boon strips would also have counter strategy (like how condition cleanses is a soft counter to boon corruption) and each subsequent mechanic creates roles for other subsequent mechanics...and that's how diversity increases.

Listen, I've studied the phenomenon of diversity...on an academic level, for many years. The one conclusion that was the most apparent is that diversity does not increase by deleting things. It's hard to understand why, and I'm not going to go into it right now but the above mechanism I described above, is how diversity works everywhere in the world.

Now about everything else. I don't disagree with the other things you said. But in fact, i believe that those things just further build the point, on why you are not going to get rid of the problem of boons without having boons strip, and let me go over why:

Scenario #1) nerf boons so their durations are less right... well by how much? Is this not already the case? I brought this up on another thread...but most boon duration currently in game, last from 1 - 8 seconds. that's pretty short duration already right now. People find ways to chain them together with different skills, and with armor stats like concentration so that the effects can be chained permanently. So how long should boon duration be to prevent this from happening? Well you'd have to nerf everything to what...1 second long? At that point the boon loses all functionality in just a regular setting. You cant utilize a boon if the boon only lasts less than the cast time of skills. So there is a lower limit on how much you can actually nerf boons. By and large we are at that limit on many skills already, where most boons untouched, especially in WvW and PVP last between 1 - 8 seconds long.

Scenario #2) Just remove the boons then right all together... Okay...but then what else are skills gonna do? Like i just said in the previous comment, the game has jettisoned most unique mechanics out of the game as a result of streamlining it, which is why most skills, grants boons. so the only things skills are gonna do aside from just giving boons, is doing damage and that's it. at that point it becomes stick wars 2, number simulator aka hamburger mobile quest 2.

So the above two things are no longer options anymore, through just straight up logical deduction. You can't remove stuff over and over and expect the game to become something interesting cause you're just systemically "removed" everything from it...removing all of its unique mechanics, good or bad... like i alluded to earlier, this is the reason diversity does not increase as a result of just removing stuff. It so happens that nature also does not work like that, hence why we live in a world, where many unique things exist, rather than things not existing at all.

You also said this;

"ANet is proclaiming that they're trying to make skills have a higher degree of consistency and simplification, it's frankly making their game harder to understand in the PvP formats."

This streamlining is not making the game harder to understand. It's  making it way easier for people to digest the game and its mechanics where "everything is number, and everything will behave the same way so we can quote "balance it."" and this is why people think its some kind of healthy thing for the game.  But what it is doing, is inadvertently destroying the game in a non-trivial way, because stripping the game of unique behaviors and everything being numbers and all wrapped up in the same mechanic does not make things more interesting or end with more variety. Because people don't understand how diversity works, people don't realize until its too late, that this "streamline balance" is responsible for choking, killing the game in this non-trivial way.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we can't nerf boons here and there, i'm saying that this isn't gonna really solve this problem...rather it will trade one problem for another. It's exactly this kind of thinking that lead to this original problem in the first place...and really its just the same kind of plan Anet already has been implementing, they've just been doing it on all the other mechanics in the game except for boons (one of the reasons i call this by a colloquial name: Quickness/Alacrity economy, but might as well just call it "boon economy") 

Edited February 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Dadnir.5038]

6 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I think i agree with practically everything you said, except this. boons existing, creates roles and a niche for boon strip like builds. The more people that bring boons, the more people that bring strips and that is an intentional thing...because boon strip regulate the existence of boons. And obviously, in any well designed game, boon strips would also have counter strategy (like how condition cleanses is a soft counter to boon corruption) and each subsequent mechanic creates roles for other subsequent mechanics...and that's how diversity increases.

The problem is that boons are cheap and easy goods that are so omnipresent that you barely care about them while Boonstrip is an unwieldy luxury for most of the few that have access to them. This inegality reduce class diversity.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The problem is that boons are cheap and easy goods that are so omnipresent that you barely care about them while Boonstrip is an unwieldy luxury for most of the few that have access to them. This inegality reduce class diversity.

Yea…and read the comments I left carefully. Boons are plentiful because that’s all they put on every skill…cause they are streamlining the game.

Second they haven’t been adding boon strips to the game. The second and last time they added any was when spell breaker came out. They are now currently removing them.

you have to think about what is happening in the big picture. You aren’t gonna get rid of boons by going through the 400+ skills that output boons cause theirs no mechanics that replace them…cause anet has been streamlining the game…getting rid of every other mechanic…so what else do you expect them to add to skills when new things come out? Wild guess: More boons.

hence why unique mechanics in general must exist my guy (so anet can design the game with something other than boons) and boonstrips should exist as one of those unique mechanics.

again so long as people subscribe to the streamlining your just signing the dotted line for more boons.

Edited February 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Yea…and read the comments I left carefully. Boons are plentiful because that’s all they put on every skill…cause they are streamlining the game.

Second they haven’t been adding boon strips. The second and last time they added any was when spell breaker came out. They are now currently removing them.

you have to think about what is happening in the big picture. You aren’t gonna get rid of boons by going through the 400+ skills that output boons cause theirs no mechanics that replace them…cause anet has been streamlining the game…getting rid of every other mechanic…so what else do you expect them to add to skills when new things come out? Wild guess: More boons.

hence why unique mechanics in general must exist my guy (so anet can design the game with something other than boons) and boonstrips should exist as one of those unique mechanics.

again so long as people subscribe to the streamlining your just signing the dotted line for more boons…think harder

Your conclusion don't make sense. In fact your whole argumentation feel disturbingly off.

I don't care about the devs streamlining things or not. It's a ship that have long sailed.

What I care about is that the more boon sources there is in the game, the more there is a need for boon strip. There is currently 7 out of 9 professions that have access to boon strip and all 7 of them should be equally good at boonstriping (be it in ease to strip boons or number of striped boons).

What I care about is that boons are indeed everywhere while boon strips are isolated on strategic skills. The issue is that the TTK is superior to the window of opportunity that the strategic skills (boon strip) open. And that is when the strategic skills are strong enough to open a window of opportunity.

What I care about is that in the current game, the mere fact that the devs are taking actions against boon strip is disturbing. Do they think that the chinese boonball that tank everything that goes their way without moving an inch is the direction the game should take?

Edit: There should be a relic that reduce all boons duration on foes by 1 seconds whenever they are struck by your fire fields skills.

Edited February 20 by Dadnir.5038

[Salt Mode.3780]

Again the issue is they keep nerfing boon strips/corrupt while the absurd amount of boons that can be applied did not. This is not rocket science it's elementary. If they up the boon applications they should increase the boon strips/corrupt it's as simple as that. Unfortunately, that is not the case with the previous balance patch and now including this one by nerfing more boonstrips. 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Your conclusion don't make sense. In fact your whole argumentation feel disturbingly off.

No, you just doesn't understand how to process higher level thinking. I can tell that you think this is some kind of "pro boon" conspiracy but you just can't think past "boon high, nerf number." But lets walk through this again:

Quote

I don't care about the devs streamlining things or not. It's a ship that have long sailed.

That's the issue, you should care, because that is why we have lots of boons on every skill.

Quote

What I care about is that the more boon sources there is in the game, the more there is a need for boon strip. There is currently 7 out of 9 professions that have access to boon strip and all 7 of them should be equally good at boonstriping (be it in ease to strip boons or number of striped boons).

Like i said, once you get rid of boons...what is left on skills? nothing because Anet has been streamlining all of the unique mechanics out of the game. this is why we have boons on every skill cause there are no other mechanics they are putting on skills.

2) Boons existing, is nessesary for boonstripping builds to be meaningful and useful, and i mean that is just a hard fact about the relationship between boons and boonstripping. Boonstripping equalizes and regulates the existence of boon builds, hence why boons and boonstripping have to exist together to have a meaningful expierence in the game where both of these mechanics exist. removing either one of them makes the other pointless. So please get past this idea in your head that boons are somehow this one sided thing in the relationship to boonstrip, it is not. The two must coexist, and the only way they will is when both sides of a fight take them.

Quote

Edit: There should be a relic that reduce all boons duration on foes by 1 seconds whenever they are struck by your fire fields skills.

That's a bit of a rando effect (since not everyone has firefields either), but ya effects should exist that allow people to counter play boons, and this is how you take care of the boon problem. its very simple, not even hard to think about how it can be done. Relics are a very universal way to approach it. IMO there should be towers of theorycraft based on boonstripping, and likewise for any mechanic in the game, thereshould be towers of theorycrafting and possible builds that can be made to deal with enemy strategy.  

PS. sorry for sloppy typing, in a rush.

Edited February 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Salt Mode.3780]

34 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

2) Boons existing, is nessesary for boonstripping builds to be meaningful and useful, and i mean that is just a hard fact about the relationship between boons and boonstripping. Boonstripping equalizes and regulates the existence of boon builds, hence why boons and boonstripping have to exist together to have a meaningful expierence in the game where both of these mechanics exist. removing either one of them makes the other pointless. So please get past this idea in your head that boons are somehow this one sided thing in the relationship to boonstrip, it is not. The two must coexist, and the only way they will is when both sides of a fight take them.

However the issue is there is not enough boonstrips/corrupt to balance this out which is the whole point of this thread.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

However the issue is there is not enough boonstrips/corrupt to balance this out which is the whole point of this thread.

Yes and that is the point in all my comments if you read them. Boonstrips need to exist…that is what solves the problem of boon spam. Boonstrips is being phased out of the game which is a bad thing.

btw the other side of that coin is the lack of other mechanics that anet puts on skills because of said phasing out of existence the unique mechanics in the game like boonstrips. It’s why there are so many skills with boon granting effects on them.

Edited February 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[TexZero.7910]

I'd also add that Protective Solace needs a real downside.
Make it so the Rev is unable to reposition it while solace is active and give it a cooldown so they cannot just hot-toggle to move it and activate bypassing the energy. It's a real nasty contributor to boon-balling as it allows complete mitigation of most ranged attacks which is absolutely absurd. It wasn't healthy when Winds of Disenchantment could move and neither is this.