New end game goals.

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Ok, but then what? What does Anet release after that?

Super DUPER Le gendary gear?

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Excellent thread. I think this is the big question Anet face every expansion (or every year prior to the yearly expansions).

How do Anet add new features/items/etc which both new and vet players will want while staying fairly horizontal in the progression? Good to see some ideas above.

[Cuks.8241]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Is this a veiled jab at the direction of the game slowly curving more towards korean games? If so, don't. Devs might actually threat this seriously, and that would be seriously bad.

Actually not. I played a lot of Korean mmorpgs in the time of Lineage and Lineage 2 and am actively trying now to stay away from them because they are super grindy and often p2w (well gw2 is also p2w but not nearly to an extent a korean vertical mmorpg usually is) and rarely have the polished systems of wow or even gw2.

But there are 2 things that Korean mmorpgs do really really well. Castle sieges or some kind of variant of that and open world pvp+pve mix. Either just their karma systems or pvp+pve ow raids/dungeons. The problem with those game modes is that in most cases you need to be in a decent guild to experience that. And to be in such a guild you need to invest a lot of time and sometimes money because you won't get accepted if you aren't geared properly.

So a horizontal mmorpg like gw2 that can support battles with lot's of players would be ideal for that. Because gear is not a factor here. 

The pvp instances could be completely separated from pve instances and it would probably even work best because of pve/wvw rules split (obviously wvw rules would be better). They could even be accessed through wvw so a pve player that doesn't like pvp could completely ignore it like he can do now with spvp or wvw.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

But there are 2 things that Korean mmorpgs do really really well. Castle sieges or some kind of variant of that and open world pvp+pve mix. Either just their karma systems or pvp+pve ow raids/dungeons. The problem with those game modes is that in most cases you need to be in a decent guild to experience that. And to be in such a guild you need to invest a lot of time and sometimes money because you won't get accepted if you aren't geared properly.

So a horizontal mmorpg like gw2 that can support battles with lot's of players would be ideal for that. Because gear is not a factor here.

No. the problem with OW pve+pvp mix is much simpler, to the point you completely overlooked it. Most players just do not like pvp.

10 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

The pvp instances could be completely separated from pve instances and it would probably even work best because of pve/wvw rules split (obviously wvw rules would be better). They could even be accessed through wvw so a pve player that doesn't like pvp could completely ignore it like he can do now with spvp or wvw.

There's already WvW for that.

[Cuks.8241]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Most players just do not like pvp.

According to who? Many mmorpgs, much bigger than gw2 have ow pvp in some kind of form. Also upcoming hyped releases like Ashes Of Creation will have ow pvp systems that very much resemble Lineage systems.

There is no ground for such statement. If anything it's the other way around.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:20 PM, xan.8936 said:

With pve legendary armor just days away and other legendary equipment being easier than ever to obtain especially for people that have been playing for a few years or more.  Do you guys thinks it’s about time for Arena Net to have some other large end game goals for people to work towards after they get most of the legendary equipment they need in there armory?

the whole reason people play gw2 and not some of the dozen other mmorpgs out there, is that in GW2 you can do whatever you want, and relax, and not have to fear falling behind if you take a break.

No need to make more "endgame" stuff. make your own goals. like hunt achievements, or clear the crazy raids.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

According to who? Many mmorpgs, much bigger than gw2 have ow pvp in some kind of form. Also upcoming hyped releases like Ashes Of Creation will have ow pvp systems that very much resemble Lineage systems.

There is no ground for such statement. If anything it's the other way around.

Perhaps they meant that most GW2 players don't play PvP?  Evidence would be the amount of resources that the studio uses on that format?

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

 (well gw2 is also p2w...

 

No.  No, it isn't P2W.  Nothing you can buy can help you "win" GW2.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

According to who? Many mmorpgs, much bigger than gw2 have ow pvp in some kind of form. Also upcoming hyped releases like Ashes Of Creation will have ow pvp systems that very much resemble Lineage systems.

There is no ground for such statement. If anything it's the other way around.

according to statistics e.g. whenever a new mmorpg comes out, the first question people ask is there open world pvp. and if there is one, many people don't even touch the game.

The majority of people hate pvp, cause it promotes toxicity, hate and banter.

 

Even in games that are advertised as pvp games. people want PVE servers...

PVP was fun 10 years ago, where people had ethical and moral feelings, nowdays in 2024. pvp means = i abuse every thing and find any loophole possible to get an unfair advantage without getting banned, just to kitten my oponent off

 

10 years ago, if you pvped and you said please wait, stop i need buy potions e.g. people respected you and stopped. nowdays people just attack you even more, there is no social aspect in pvp anymore. pvp nowdays is just people pushing their ego.

 

Quote

"I would prefer to indulge in a subscription-based pay-to-win gaming experience, complete with five monthly VIP options, than endure the harrowing uncertainty of falling prey to a unknown aggressor in pvp."

 

Edited February 21 by WaifuJanna.9108

[Cuks.8241]

46 minutes ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

according to statistics e.g. whenever a new mmorpg comes out, the first question people ask is there open world pvp. and if there is one, many people don't even touch the game.

The majority of people hate pvp, cause it promotes toxicity, hate and banter.

Which statistics? Source?

People never had more or less honor. Ganking and drama have always been present. But I do agree that today the userbase is much broader than it was 10 y ago and there are more niches for everything.

But I'm not advocating for a free for all ow pvp. I'm advocating for a mode that utilises existing systems and maps for a new mode that also involves wvw type of pvp but can be completely avoided by someone that doesn't like it.

I actually wonder how Ashes of Creation will be. Because that game has really old school pvp systems as it seems now and I think they won't hold to broad audience nowadays.

47 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

No.  No, it isn't P2W.  Nothing you can buy can help you "win" GW2

Only best gear in the game and character progression. But let's not go there, I know in todays mobile game market people are very lenient to p2w practices.

Edited February 21 by Cuks.8241

[kharmin.7683]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Only best gear in the game and character progression. But let's not go there, I know in todays mobile game market people are very lenient to p2w practices.

All of which can be obtained by playing the game and using in-game currencies.  No need to "pay" and there is really nothing to "win".

[DeanBB.4268]

Remind me, what are the successful open world PvP games right now? I only play GW2, so honestly don't know.

Crowfall is one, right?

[Mistwraithe.3106]

11 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Only best gear in the game and character progression. But let's not go there, I know in todays mobile game market people are very lenient to p2w practices.

You are technically correct but best in slot gear and maxed out character progression comes pretty easily from just playing the game. If you play GW2 for enjoyment and have some basic level of competence then you will unlock them.

As I'm sure you know, this is not what the negative term pay to win (P2W) refers to. P2W games allow buying advantages which are either impossible to get in game or would require extreme grind (ie time) to get in game. That's not GW2.

Edited February 22 by Mistwraithe.3106

[WRay.2391]

12 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Which statistics? Source?

People never had more or less honor. Ganking and drama have always been present. But I do agree that today the userbase is much broader than it was 10 y ago and there are more niches for everything.

But I'm not advocating for a free for all ow pvp. I'm advocating for a mode that utilises existing systems and maps for a new mode that also involves wvw type of pvp but can be completely avoided by someone that doesn't like it.

I actually wonder how Ashes of Creation will be. Because that game has really old school pvp systems as it seems now and I think they won't hold to broad audience nowadays.

Only best gear in the game and character progression. But let's not go there, I know in todays mobile game market people are very lenient to p2w practices.

There are multiple analysis showing OW forced PvP views very negatively by majority of players. There is relatively small group that likes it, but it's to small for game to thrive. There were a lot of discussions here as well, ppl even proposing PvP OW flag player can enable, but response was that it will introduce bullying in chat if you will not accept someone's call to duel.

[Triptaminas.4789]

Goal for me for a while now is to git gud, i found fun in that, its what hooked me, muh horizontal progression.

Sadly its kinda being pushed out, new content difficulty is trivial farming in pve, wvw turned into pure number game, no more u see 10 leets winning against 60 person blob by using their superior skill/knowledge in game/class mechanics. 

Im still kinda in denial that skill matters less with each month here, till i accept it my goal still be to git gud. 

[Skyy.5380]

My personal wishlist separated in gamemodes:

10-man PvE:

• Get rid of the Strikes as single encounters and make them become a raid (IBS raid Wing f.e.) with (much) higher difficulty and some lore to wrap up the IBS story.
• Same with Soto and EoD Strikes.
• Difficulties. Easy with reduced rewards, Normal as it is, CM as it is or in some cases more difficult and Hardcore, which is basically impossible without 10 people that do a very very good, if not flawless, job. 50-100 pulls minimum until first kill; very optional content tho and not reward driven. CMs should give more rewards then normal and require DPS-checks. It should not be possible to succesful kill a CM encounter without playing your character well.
• Add a long-term goal to Raids, like Fractal God or God of WvW. 

Open World

• I don't care for Open World. Make it more intuitive to learn the game basics so new player have a safe space to learn. Punish player but give them a way out. Death recaps and more explanations what to do to win.

Fractals

• Add more CMs, but make them rotational like RECS and T4. 3 CMs a day must be enough, current daily playthrou is already 2 long.
• Long Term Goal is fine, I'm still working on my Fractal God and it's enough motivation for me, even tho I am sick of doing the same Fracs every day (26K UFE).

WvW

• Improve the group aspect of WvW. We need proper GvG with a ladder and Alliances. Give smaller objectives like Camps and Towers more meaning. You want the Castle? Make sure to capture and keep surroundings towers as support first. 
• Reward Winning with unique Effects (like golden capes from GW1).
• Long Term Goal is fine; but you can expand it for more veteran players then me. Add more titles to underline the effort with some emotes or something, idk. I really liked the HA titles with emotes (jumping tiger for R9 for example) in gw1. They were really prestigious. I remember the first time I got my tiger, i was so proud. And really impressed by the first pheonix i saw 😄

sPvP

• Very difficult one. Improve Balance, add more maps, more gamemodes.
• More Tournaments, make it easier to join (like random arenas)
• Overall work on the eSport Spirit of the game
• Add a HA gamemode from GW1. Win the deathmatch to go to round 2. Win the CTH to get to round 3. etc. Maybe rank emotes are better for sPvP then for WvW.
• Add a long-term Goal. God of PvP can't be "be the best", even tho it makes sense... 😄 It's just too unrealistic for 99,9% of the player.

 

Just my 5 cents. If only a few of these points get implemented I'm happy 🙂 If the next 1-2 expansions are similar to SotO i might quit tho.

Playing since HoT release with alot of breaks. Still ~2.000 Hours.

Edited February 22 by Skyy.5380

[Cuks.8241]

18 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

There are multiple analysis showing OW forced PvP views very negatively by majority of players. There is relatively small group that likes it, but it's to small for game to thrive. There were a lot of discussions here as well, ppl even proposing PvP OW flag player can enable, but response was that it will introduce bullying in chat if you will not accept someone's call to duel.

Oh I understand that today's market just isn't welcome to Lineage or even wow type of ow pvp. Although I am in favour of duelling (because I had probably thousand hours of just duelling in front of Orgrimmar) I don't care that much. I also think people are really overexaggerating the potential toxic aspect of duelling and if it would be in the game most would never notice let alone had toxic experience. In many years of mmorpgs I don't recall one event where duelling was ever the reason for toxicity. And the only instance of "duel me bro" I remember is when someone was really toxic and annoying to begin with and duel request was used to keep them in check with "put the money where your mouth is". I mean wow was played by everyone including their grandmothers and never noticed this to be a problem. But like I said, not that important to me since we have systems that fill that gap.

What I do think is that gw2 actually has something special with wvw. One of the best large scale pvp systems I played in mmorpgs. Could compare it to Planetside but that's not really a rpg and it's an actual stand alone, relatively successful game that does only that. Well developed systems, smooth gameplay, actual squad meta that is somewhat diverse in roles. I do think it could be capitalised on with different modes, something that would have more clear winning rules and something for guilds. They don't really need to reinvent the wheel. Korean castle sieges are a proven successful concept (not the only one, there are others) and you basically already have all the systems with wvw. You just need to also utilize the existing pve maps. And it can still be completely separated from pve instances. Yeah we already have wvw but it's becoming very stale and is just missing that "for the win" part. Sandbox is fine and all but if you want competition you need the structure. I know it's a stale comment but it would put guild wars in, well, Guild Wars.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

In many years of mmorpgs I don't recall one event where duelling was ever the reason for toxicity.

Aion and SWG. I saw a ton of them. Peak toxicity with duels. 😂

[Linken.6345]

57 minutes ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

Aion and SWG. I saw a ton of them. Peak toxicity with duels. 😂

Will add wow into this.

You walk out of ogrimmar some rogue send duel request you decline.

-come on duel  me bro or are you scared?

My reply Im lvl 20 and your 60 you dingus.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Things i would like to see: 

1. Legendary aqua breather

2: Jeweler 500

3: revamped jewel upgrade system: ascended jewels that give effects instead of stats, decouple jewel upgrades from ascended and legendary accessories. 

4: legendary jewels

5: revamp infusion system: decouple cometics from stats, make cometics part of the wardrobe. Basically allow stat infusions to be reskinned with infusions unlocked (account bound) to your account. Add infusions to wardrobe unlocks. This would discourage infusion hording and hopefully lover prices.

6: legendary stat infusions.

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Oh I understand that today's market just isn't welcome to Lineage or even wow type of ow pvp.

Honestly, it wasn't too welcoming (in the west at least) even among the original WoW crowd. Even earlier, with MUDs, pure PvE ones were significantly more popular than the PvP ones. Lineage, of course, was made for the asian market and that player community is a bit different in their tastes, but among western players even there PvP was mostly either avoided where possible, or actively hated. Most players just do not have the mentality for this type of play, especially nowadays when player crowd is much more casual than when the games were more niche.

No to mention OW PvP has always been more about griefing than actual challenge, which is fun mostly to those that do the griefing, but far less entertaining for everyone else.

15 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I don't care that much. I also think people are really overexaggerating the potential toxic aspect of duelling and if it would be in the game most would never notice let alone had toxic experience. In many years of mmorpgs I don't recall one event where duelling was ever the reason for toxicity.

That's because you (as you have already mentioned) do like this kind of playstyle. Even a cursory look on forums from WoW, lineage, or any other MMORPG with OW PvP always reveals a ton of posts on the issue that result from personal experiences that run from mildly negative to absolutely horrid.

[frazazel.7501]

I would like to see a competitive mode that isn't about killing the other players. Maybe give us some kind of battle where two different teams need to defeat an opposing lord, and we need to destroy / build siege and fight defenders to get there, while also going back to defend our allies. Make it so that players are immune to damage from other players, so that directly fighting the opposing team isn't the way to play. This is a competitive PvE mode, where you're supporting your forces, and you need to clear the way for them.

[Randulf.7614]

19 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

Aion and SWG. I saw a ton of them. Peak toxicity with duels. 😂

And Lotro (the supposed best mmo community of all time). And Anarchy. And so many others.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, frazazel.7501 said:

I would like to see a competitive mode that isn't about killing the other players. Maybe give us some kind of battle where two different teams need to defeat an opposing lord, and we need to destroy / build siege and fight defenders to get there, while also going back to defend our allies. Make it so that players are immune to damage from other players, so that directly fighting the opposing team isn't the way to play. This is a competitive PvE mode, where you're supporting your forces, and you need to clear the way for them.

While interesting perhaps, I don't see that there is enough of a demand for this type of format to justify the investment of resources that would probably be needed.  It also seems to me to stray away from GW2's original intent as an MMO.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

14 hours ago, frazazel.7501 said:

I would like to see a competitive mode that isn't about killing the other players. Maybe give us some kind of battle where two different teams need to defeat an opposing lord, and we need to destroy / build siege and fight defenders to get there, while also going back to defend our allies. Make it so that players are immune to damage from other players, so that directly fighting the opposing team isn't the way to play. This is a competitive PvE mode, where you're supporting your forces, and you need to clear the way for them.

a jumping puzzle race would be nice 😛

[Lucy.3728]

Legendary gear is endgame?

I thought it was just QoL armor that you want so you don't have to deal with gear acquisition for other builds and new characters. And for easy, quick trial and error. So something for on the go and not as an end.

Do people stop when they have all the legendary pieces there are?

I'd find that strange, but bye bye then.

(The legendary breather is still missing and I suggest making it as difficult and inconvenient as possible. Nobody needs it and it would bind the hunters and perfectionists for a long time to come. And it'd keep the forum busy with whine and complain thread for years to come.)

Edited February 24 by Lucy.3728