The real power of Mace

[Mell.4873]

I have been swapping a few of my PvP/WvW builds over to Mace and found something very cool about the weapons, nothing is wasted.

Almost every attempt at dueling someone can be outplayed, Maul can be dodged, Longbow barrage can be avoided etc.
This is not true with Mace, both 2 and 4 provide some support to yourself/Allies so you always gain some value by attempting to land a skill. While 3 and 5 are AoE CCs so for a clash of more than one player you are bound to hit someone. This synergizes really with Untamed to gain Stability and the upcoming Trait changes.

Edited March 6 by Mell.4873

[Dawdler.8521]

I'm not even sure I've seen a mace ranger in WvW yet.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

You can miss both parts of #2 entirely (second part almost always misses unless someone really isn't paying attention), and Mace #4 is no different to how WH #5 works, but it gives stab to you and barrier if it hits.  The good thing is Mace #4 does damage as well, but that's to make up for #3 doing no damage.  

Mace #3 is super easy to dodge without quickness and #5 the only upside to it to make up for its low damage is you can move while using it.  

In general, they aren't really worth it to run over Sw/Wh unless you are super bored.  They may be slightly better in zerg play because you can just spam skills off CD and get participation, but for roaming they're pretty balanced and suffer from all the same shortcomings melee weapons with little to no defense/kite ability do.  

[Mystiz.8795]

I'm curious too, has anyone managed to come up with a viable WvW roaming ranger build using Mace? Roaming/Dueling, not Zerg. 

[Beddo.1907]

The main issue I've found with maces, is the low mobility. Soulbeast has option to get 1 decent mobility skill and Untamed has Unnatural Traversal, which is mostly offensive use. If you go against a build with range and mobility, you will be in a disadvantage in a 1v1.

Maces do perform well, when mobility is not an issue.

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You can miss both parts of #2 entirely (second part almost always misses unless someone really isn't paying attention), and Mace #4 is no different to how WH #5 works, but it gives stab to you and barrier if it hits.  The good thing is Mace #4 does damage as well, but that's to make up for #3 doing no damage.  

Mace #3 is super easy to dodge without quickness and #5 the only upside to it to make up for its low damage is you can move while using it.  

In general, they aren't really worth it to run over Sw/Wh unless you are super bored.  They may be slightly better in zerg play because you can just spam skills off CD and get participation, but for roaming they're pretty balanced and suffer from all the same shortcomings melee weapons with little to no defense/kite ability do.  

I swapped from Sword on one of my builds and use unnatural travel instead. Most of the time I was running duel something to so I can double ambush the same weapon now i just throw mace in there instead. 

[DarkFlopy.8197]

19 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I have been swapping a few of my PvP/WvW builds over to Mace and found something very cool about the weapons, nothing is wasted.

Almost every attempt at dueling someone can be outplayed, Maul can be dodged, Longbow barrage can be avoided etc.
This is not true with Mace, both 2 and 4 provide some support to yourself/Allies so you always gain some value by attempting to land a skill. While 3 and 5 are AoE CCs so for a clash of more than one player you are bound to hit someone. This synergizes really with Untamed to gain Stability and the upcoming Trait changes.

Welcome to the mace club, hope you enjoy your stay 😁

P.S bingo nights on Sunday!

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I personally like the burst potential in maces and I use them a lot.  Though I go full glass and 100 - 0 people, call me brave but I've been liking Marksman + skirmisher with quick draw combo, the off chance of getting 3 stuns if pretty insane if you get it right. CC chaining people death is fun.

 

 

22 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

The main issue I've found with maces, is the low mobility.

 

You can make the mobility strong on Untamed or Druid, if you're willing to take quick draw.... its what I've been using and its been tricky for some people to catch me. But I'm also using back bar set like sword/GS or Staff for that extra mobility.

 

 

Edited March 8 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Mell.4873]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:05 PM, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

You can make the mobility strong on Untamed or Druid, if you're willing to take quick draw.... its what I've been using and its been tricky for some people to catch me. But I'm also using back bar set like sword/GS or Staff for that extra mobility.

Yeah I have playing around with Mace/Mace Soulbeast with Staff to escape. I'm trying a more stance heavy set up with the ability to deal alot of damage inside a Zerg Clash. 

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I find Mace Mace can essentially wipe small scale fights, and in Zergs can down people pretty quickly. I've been mostly using Untamed for Zerg fight as you can keep MH mace on both bars and have OH mace on one set and Horn/Torch on another. You're catch potential with immobilization is pretty strong if you take the Ambush on swap trait.

With soulbeast, I've been mostly Roaming with maces 100 to zeroing people as sic em and OWP seems to be extremely powerful..... not to mention a certain relic.

[Mell.4873]

Since I already have a thread going I want to predict some potential nerfs.

For one the 25% extra damage on Force of Nature will probably go since it is creating another "Sic Em" situation even if it is hard to trigger and cram everything in. 

Next I really like the cooldown reset when triggering Force of Nature and would like something similar for Hammer especially over a bunch of coefficient buffs. Honestly though they will probably nerf it in some way on Mace but they might leave it for a purity purpose. Again make Hammer have the instant cooldown reduction not Mace.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Since I already have a thread going I want to predict some potential nerfs.

For one the 25% extra damage on Force of Nature will probably go since it is creating another "Sic Em" situation even if it is hard to trigger and cram everything in. 

Think it's fine, in sPvP at least. 

You can't really dent bunker builds with maces unless you are full glass and then you have the opposite issue of little disengage with them unless you specifically run soulbeast.  Soulbeast itself has had enough nerfs in the burst department--if they start nerfing maces on damage then to me, might as well pack it up as all skill has left the game.  

I'd also leave them in WvW if ranger is actually seeing zerg play.  No need to nerf something that is allowing the baseline of enjoyment for the mode outside of heal slave Druid.  

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Think it's fine, in sPvP at least. 

You can't really dent bunker builds with maces unless you are full glass and then you have the opposite issue of little disengage with them unless you specifically run soulbeast.  Soulbeast itself has had enough nerfs in the burst department--if they start nerfing maces on damage then to me, might as well pack it up as all skill has left the game.  

I'd also leave them in WvW if ranger is actually seeing zerg play.  No need to nerf something that is allowing the baseline of enjoyment for the mode outside of heal slave Druid.  

Well like we previously discuss the key is to avoid their attacks so they can't build Force of Nature stacks. If I get one stun of on my Mace Untamed, I can generally chain many attacks while being under attack by 1 or 2 players to maintain Stability. Force of Nature then resets my cooldowns so I can repeat this.

They could buff base damage in compensation for the removal of the 25% damage increase since it creates a toxic playstyle like with Fervent Force in both PvP and PvE.

Edited March 10 by Mell.4873

[DarkFlopy.8197]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Since I already have a thread going I want to predict some potential nerfs.

For one the 25% extra damage on Force of Nature will probably go since it is creating another "Sic Em" situation even if it is hard to trigger and cram everything in. 

Next I really like the cooldown reset when triggering Force of Nature and would like something similar for Hammer especially over a bunch of coefficient buffs. Honestly though they will probably nerf it in some way on Mace but they might leave it for a purity purpose. Again make Hammer have the instant cooldown reduction not Mace.

Isn't the damage buff already 15%? I didn't check PvE and Spvp but in WvW it's already 15%, unless I am missing something.

Edited March 10 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Isn't the damage buff already 15%? I didn't check PvE and Spvp but in WvW it's already 15%, unless I am missing something.

Yes, 15% dmg and 25% healing in all but PvE where it is 25/25. 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

If I get one stun of on my Mace Untamed, I can generally chain many attacks while being under attack by 1 or 2 players to maintain Stability. Force of Nature then resets my cooldowns so I can repeat this.

I still don't see it as an issue; when we fought earlier you did get force of nature reset once but only because I didn't back up off the point as needed to keep it contested.  Was able to do that as another +1 came in as well--which is why I said earlier vs. bunker or more tanky things you need to be full glass for it to have any effect.

Like right now Mace needs the rest of the balance changes on the 19th (as does hammer) to even begin to look at where they are.  As of now I stand by if maces give a place in WvW then leave them, and they aren't any better than Sw/Wh right now in sPvP even with the whole 'grow large' mechanic. 

In fact, Mace/Mace is probably the least effective configuration and that's the one you really need to use force of nature anyway.  

[Mell.4873]

26 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yes, 15% dmg and 25% healing in all but PvE where it is 25/25. 

I still don't see it as an issue; when we fought earlier you did get force of nature reset once but only because I didn't back up off the point as needed to keep it contested.  Was able to do that as another +1 came in as well--which is why I said earlier vs. bunker or more tanky things you need to be full glass for it to have any effect.

Like right now Mace needs the rest of the balance changes on the 19th (as does hammer) to even begin to look at where they are.  As of now I stand by if maces give a place in WvW then leave them, and they aren't any better than Sw/Wh right now in sPvP even with the whole 'grow large' mechanic. 

In fact, Mace/Mace is probably the least effective configuration and that's the one you really need to use force of nature anyway.  

Oh did we fight....? 

Anyway I use Axe/Mace and Mace/Warhorn on Untamed and try chain Ambushes and CC so I'm not all about Force of Nature. 

[DarkFlopy.8197]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yes, 15% dmg and 25% healing in all but PvE where it is 25/25. 

I see, very weird that in Spvp they kept the 25%.

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Anyway I use Axe/Mace and Mace/Warhorn on Untamed

I use Mace/Warhorn and Sword/Mace, also chaining CCes, gives great mobility too for WvW.

[Padra.1678]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:13 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

I'm not even sure I've seen a mace ranger in WvW yet.

Then either your high on drugs or you have selective vison the WORST.  By far The most common build i SEE in wvw are MACE rangers usually druid sometimes untamed followed by WIllbinders. Seriously if your roaming at least 6 or 7 of 10 fights will be one of those two.

Mace ranger is busted to hell if you cannot see that i do not know what to tell you.

[Zyreva.1078]

Hu? Don't think i have run into a single mace ranger either and roaming is all i do. Most rangers (~ 90%) i meet are some sort of longbow soulbeast, followed by a few condi druids with some odd untamed here and there. If anyone was using mace, they didn't live long enough for me to recognize what weapon they were actually using.

Maces to little to nothing for roaming. Low mobility melee weapons with relatively hard to land skills and the dmg isn't anything out of the ordinary either. Also power only, so little synergy with cele which is a downside in itself when it comes to roaming.

[Mystiz.8795]

I roam a lot and too have only seen one mace ranger so far, was a power soulbeast running the pvp build. I tried and don't see how mace can be effective in roaming, it only works against weaker players or those who are willing to fight you in melee. Totally agree with Zyreva, mobility is bad, it is hard to land skills against skilled players, and you're forced to abandon op cele and go power. Of cuz, it might make a decent dueling build against non cele classes 1v1, but that isn't how roaming goes. I build my ranger to be able to engage 1v2 and sometimes 1v3,  beat or stalemate matchups against all cele classes, thieves, and at least survive the most op spec - deadeye. No way a mace ranger can do that, and it'll completely get farmed by deadeye and probably most thief specs. 

I do see the potential in pvp though, where cele doesn't exist and players are forced to stay on point and engage in melee. 

[anduriell.6280]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:24 PM, Mell.4873 said:

I have been swapping a few of my PvP/WvW builds over to Mace and found something very cool about the weapons, nothing is wasted.

Almost every attempt at dueling someone can be outplayed, Maul can be dodged, Longbow barrage can be avoided etc.
This is not true with Mace, both 2 and 4 provide some support to yourself/Allies so you always gain some value by attempting to land a skill. While 3 and 5 are AoE CCs so for a clash of more than one player you are bound to hit someone. This synergizes really with Untamed to gain Stability and the upcoming Trait changes.

That's the expected effect of a support set which ranger got none until now, fully functional i mean because staff is not there. 

You are experiencing what any other single class has got to enjoy from the very beggining with their support sets. Talk about unnecesary caveats and artificial downsides imposed by the devs in any other set. 

[Mell.4873]

On 3/12/2024 at 7:59 PM, Mystiz.8795 said:

I roam a lot and too have only seen one mace ranger so far, was a power soulbeast running the pvp build. I tried and don't see how mace can be effective in roaming, it only works against weaker players or those who are willing to fight you in melee. Totally agree with Zyreva, mobility is bad, it is hard to land skills against skilled players, and you're forced to abandon op cele and go power. Of cuz, it might make a decent dueling build against non cele classes 1v1, but that isn't how roaming goes. I build my ranger to be able to engage 1v2 and sometimes 1v3,  beat or stalemate matchups against all cele classes, thieves, and at least survive the most op spec - deadeye. No way a mace ranger can do that, and it'll completely get farmed by deadeye and probably most thief specs. 

I do see the potential in pvp though, where cele doesn't exist and players are forced to stay on point and engage in melee. 

Yeah I agree, I am not really roaming with it but I do have axe main-hand on my other weapon slot. 

Edited March 14 by Mell.4873

[CETheLucid.3964]

They're sluggish and overtly telegraphed. If you're dueling with someone even remotely familiar with the set they can predict your every move. On most setups they just have to wait for you to burn your stability to punish and you can't do anything but eat it or run. That said they are very strong and the stability built into them will make the upcoming trait nerfs not hurt so badly. And their mechanic is just really fun. You can trick out a lot of people with it. It's satisfying to turn into a giant charr and beat the crap out of people.

Easily one of the best weapons added with the update. I pray they're not nerfed to oblivion.

[Mell.4873]

10 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

They're sluggish and overtly telegraphed. If you're dueling with someone even remotely familiar with the set they can predict your every move. On most setups they just have to wait for you to burn your stability to punish and you can't do anything but eat it or run. That said they are very strong and the stability built into them will make the upcoming trait nerfs not hurt so badly. And their mechanic is just really fun. You can trick out a lot of people with it. It's satisfying to turn into a giant charr and beat the crap out of people.

Easily one of the best weapons added with the update. I pray they're not nerfed to oblivion.

The only thing to add is most Ranger weapons suffer from being over telegraphed. I mean a big bear Mauling you is a pretty clear sign to dodge. 

The only weapons that can't be outplayed are probably Shortbow and Staff. 

Anyway I kind of backed off the Dueling idea later on even if it can work in Conquest PvP. Mace does lack the mobility to Roam in WvW. 

[Sansar.1302]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:00 AM, Mell.4873 said:

The only thing to add is most Ranger weapons suffer from being over telegraphed. I mean a big bear Mauling you is a pretty clear sign to dodge. 

The only weapons that can't be outplayed are probably Shortbow and Staff. 

Anyway I kind of backed off the Dueling idea later on even if it can work in Conquest PvP. Mace does lack the mobility to Roam in WvW. 

I have now goten some hours solo roaming with it on untamed, while nothing i would like to use vs the top roamers ( t1 eu ) it still is realy fun and not unusable as solo roamer.