Balance and development choices are making less and less sense to me.

[Leo G.4501]

On 3/9/2024 at 12:41 PM, Puck.3697 said:

Tbh I’ve played a lot of mmorpgs, and they don’t make sense ever, the more mmorpgs you engage with, the more you remorse Devs are aware they’re fighting a losing battle and meta will replace everything and anything regardless of how close they get things.

so they aim for randomness and things that will chase to shuffle things continuously to get things different

 

Isn't that what people say GW1 was like? Shuffling the meta around a bunch?

[Leo G.4501]

7 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I think you misunderstand the point that "guardian" doesn't represent me or what I play. I don't play guardian. I play firebrand, mirage, tempest, virtuoso, and scrapper. It doesn't matter what willbenders or dragonhunters can do if I never touch them and their playstyles. This is true for a lot of players, so comparing by base class just doesn't mean anything to us. 

Edit: And in case you are wondering, in FF14 I play scholar, but I don't play arcanist or summoner. 

I wonder how many are the same.

For me, I learn and play the whole profession kit. Now I will play them in waves but for any spec I play, I learn them all one at a time.  Like, I didn't play Revenant until EoD so I could try Vindicator but I eventually unlocked Herald then created a unique build for it...then after playing that well enough, I got Renegade unlocked and started creating a build for that. For Warrior, I have 2 separate wars because each has their own "style" and background where each of the specs fit them differently, one being more a Berserker and the other being a Spellbreaker and both using Bladesworn.

As for FFXIV, you technically don't play Arcanist after a certain point. Scholar is my only healing job but I also play Blackmage and Summoner.  In FFXIV, most vets I know play nearly every job with maybe specific preferences, i.e. they might only like tanking with Gunblade and not Paladin but play every other dps OR they might only like magic classes so have dancer, redmage, reaper, blackmage, summoner, etc....or they love tanking and have all the tanks kitted out. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

I wonder how many are the same.

For me, I learn and play the whole profession kit. Now I will play them in waves but for any spec I play, I learn them all one at a time.  Like, I didn't play Revenant until EoD so I could try Vindicator but I eventually unlocked Herald then created a unique build for it...then after playing that well enough, I got Renegade unlocked and started creating a build for that. For Warrior, I have 2 separate wars because each has their own "style" and background where each of the specs fit them differently, one being more a Berserker and the other being a Spellbreaker and both using Bladesworn.

As for FFXIV, you technically don't play Arcanist after a certain point. Scholar is my only healing job but I also play Blackmage and Summoner.  In FFXIV, most vets I know play nearly every job with maybe specific preferences, i.e. they might only like tanking with Gunblade and not Paladin but play every other dps OR they might only like magic classes so have dancer, redmage, reaper, blackmage, summoner, etc....or they love tanking and have all the tanks kitted out. 

I'm kinda of the same. I also have multiple characters for some specs, because they are so different that they don't always match the same toon. I tried every profession and most specs, but I dont currently play them all, because I dont like some especs even if they technically have the same base class. They play so differently and have such different concepts that they might as well be different classes to me. Saying firebrand and willbender are the same class feels like saying cleric is the same class as a paladin/rogue in D&D. 

Plus you have to spend HP to unlock each and most use different gear too. After mastering firebrand, the hurdle between learning and gearing my dragonhunter and my vindicator was just a level 80 booster. Actually it was kind of a wash, because my vindi could use the celestial gear that came with the booster, but I had to get power gear for my dragonhunter. 

Most core classes in GW2 are not played after a certain point either. There are a few exceptions, but the norm is that you drop core classes when you unlock especs. I play mirage and virtuoso, and I even played some chrono in the last year, but I don't personally know anyone that has touched core mesmer since 2015.

[Voyant.1327]

OP and others you're not alone, everyone I know that played this game has stopped because of the balance team.
I'm literally coming here now to check to see if there's any word on that being fixed to focus on game enjoyment & this is one of the first threads I see.

I've said it dozens of times, a lot of the team is doing a great job trying to make the most out of this game, but for whatever reason the balance team actively works to decrease overall player satisfaction. It's one thing to balance with something in mind in terms of power creep, but thats never what happens. What we get is a bunch of randomly nerfed traits that break fundamental design ideas to the point it's a mess, then at the exact same time a new overpowered trait will be buffed.

It's just a revolving door of misery and confusion for people who play one spec or like to do their own thing. For Meta/FotM players it makes little difference... But I don't understand the logic of pushing away sections of your player base...

All for the sake of an imaginary balance that quite frankly hasn't existed in years.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Voyant.1327 said:

OP and others you're not alone, everyone I know that played this game has stopped because of the balance team.
I'm literally coming here now to check to see if there's any word on that being fixed to focus on game enjoyment & this is one of the first threads I see.

I've said it dozens of times, a lot of the team is doing a great job trying to make the most out of this game, but for whatever reason the balance team actively works to decrease overall player satisfaction. It's one thing to balance with something in mind in terms of power creep, but thats never what happens. What we get is a bunch of randomly nerfed traits that break fundamental design ideas to the point it's a mess, then at the exact same time a new overpowered trait will be buffed.

It's just a revolving door of misery and confusion for people who play one spec or like to do their own thing. For Meta/FotM players it makes little difference... But I don't understand the logic of pushing away sections of your player base...

All for the sake of an imaginary balance that quite frankly hasn't existed in years.

I actually don't think it's random at all. I think it's very targeted and a detriment to most of the players in the game. I've noticed a pattern over the past few years since the latest balance team took over. They're trying to reconcile their vision of what the meta should be. The problem is that the players  determine the meta, NOT the devs! We don't agree with their vision, because we find other solutions that we like better than theirs. It's not in line with the balance philosophy. I'm starting to wonder if the balance team even wrote the balance philosophy! 😅

Their own mission states that want to bring balance and fun to the most amount of players, but those are casuals. The balanced team's decisions seem strictly geared towards instance PVE with a secondary focus on PVP. Neither of which most players actually play. They're ignoring most sensible feedback while also ignoring the inane feedback and hoping that most of us don't notice or don't have enough voice to disrupt the game's reputation. Lucky for the devs, we don't. 🙄

The good news is that the foundation of the game's lore, story, overall gameplay, combat system, and last but certainly not least, wardrobe system, are solid and varied. It's still fun to play for the most part, and most players can still find a game mode that satisfies them, despite the balance team ignoring us. For me that's wvw, a good chunk of of the open world (both combat/events and exploration), and all the beautiful skins. The ones that the devs truly failed, I think have moved on. Sad to see them go, and I hope they found a game that better suits them. Some check back in with us. So thank you for that! 💜

Edited March 17 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Obtena.7952]

The changes we have seen in the last few years are definitely not random and most are aligned to what Anet is trying to do.

1. Specs defined by roles (yes, we see that)
2. Specs within their roles are reasonably balanced within those roles so no specific choice is favoured (that sometimes results in unfavourable effects OUTSIDE those specs)
3. IMO, the functions of things are related to theme and focused on PVE. Competitive modes "balanced" (loosely) around changing the numbers of specific elements
4. More attention to 'unbreaking' things (though we can still get some changes that overshoot and need to be addressed later.)

This isn't to say there aren't still some weird changes going on that make people think WTF, but as always, the context is important if you want to really understand. 

Interesting case ... change to Necro Signet trait. Funny part is that if the current version was introduced at launch, no one would have questioned it but NOW, it's blowing peoples minds. 

Edited March 17 by Obtena.7952

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:27 PM, Doggie.3184 said:

Thief gets 3 projectile weapons ina row that have no unique unreflectable skills instead of buffing the ranged weapons we've had since launch (Pistol and Shortbow). When PoF launched we got a Dead-On-Arival Rifle with same weaponskill loadout as P/P (in which they nerfed in advance to replace) and spend several years before even considering letting it pierce to fix it's QoL issues. EoD they then add bad mechanics no one has ever liked such as Shadow Strike's backwards teleport to Scepter and make it also generally the same as nerfed P/P with no AoE, no new gameplay outside of clunky ally targeting that takes ages to get off the ground with addition of splash healing...

Now we have this Axe release... with it's bugs, lack of adding what we're missing, annoying as all hell sound effect, unfinished/lazy animation work, has only 1 skill, lack of synergy with off-hands and no new off-hand to fix that, etc~ it's officially been the lowest point I've felt about the game since the deletion of Ricochet.

Thief still remains the only class without WvW group play builds~ even has a bug that prevents Daredevil dodge from stealthing if ally fields are overlapping yours which hasn't been fixed since HoT despite multiple reports and even a CM response. Like what is going on, do they need more staff? It's like they never have time to leave the golem to actually try things in all modes and just literally have no idea what would suit a thief/assassin player. If they told us that maybe it's just too hard to fix/don't want it fixed or that Thief's design philosophy is to be a loner who avoids allies then at least it's something and I'll know what to expect. I just feel like I'm being trolled at this point.

I feel you on this bro.

if it helps, heal scepter thief is a thing after a change they made last last patch I believe. It still needs some work by the devs (like it needs some condi cleanse and self survival) but it’s pretty decent WvW zerg build.

it would be nice to be able to use staff thief again.

Edited March 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[RAZOR.7246]

I spent the whole day today running around strike missions to see what was up with this "run with a dev" achievement. I have to say it really grinds my gears to see them joining casual groups and trying to look impressive while not even doing top tier DPS and failing to manage healing on certain mechanics properly. I never encountered a dev in a group with an "EXP" label in LFG. 1 thing that really stuck out for me was this 1 Dev who was running on a WB but came nowhere close to what his DPS should have been. I know because I significantly outdpsed him on the same class in the same run with a simplified DPS rotation compared to the one they tried to nerf, I.e. the really complex one SC posted that benched 48k. What really gets to me is this nerf to WB happened because of that bench when the devs cannot reach anywhere near those numbers or level of play themselves in an actual fight. I'll also admit, it really rubbed me the wrong way to watch that guy trying to "greed" DPS unsuccessfully without regard for the group and to see him drop without a word of thanks which is an established basic group etiquette in this game. I also seriously doubt after what I've witnessed today if they can handle the kind of complex rotations that manage to squeeze out that level of DPS in GOLEM SITUATIONS, let alone actual fights.

 

You need to have an understanding of where they're squeezing out this extra damage compared to other players instead of blindly making damage nerfs. In the case of WB on particular, it's the number of extra hits these players can manage compared to everyone else. Players outside this skill bracket find the use of F2 for extra hits to be totally kitten for example because of the way the movement works, especially in a normal fight. I get that it has a certain playstyle for competitive play, but does F2 really need to differ that much from the way F1 currently works? They pretty much do the same thing except that 1 unnecessarily forces you to move into less favourable positions. It makes PvE WB support builds unpopular because it's annoying to use.

 

The other issue is that WB is a condi DPS that plays like a power DPS. If you cannot hit, especially with rushing justice which forces you into a melee position, you lose a lot of damage compared to both power and condi builds without having the perks of either I.e. burst or passive/range DPS. In lieu of this, if p/t or s/p or p/p is the direction they want to go in, the way rushing justice works needs to change to remain in line with the playstyle. My suggestion is that it should trigger on a tether basis and this current mechanic of rushing on F1 be moved F2 for simplification of the class. Once you can ensure that the gap in terms of the number of hits on rotations between complex and less intense are closer, then you can start looking at damage nerfs across the board. Right now it's just plain as day what they don't know about the way damage works on different classes and just nerf based on the first video they see.

Edited March 22 by RAZOR.7246
Adding information

[Leo G.4501]

1 hour ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

I spent the whole day today running around strike missions to see what was up with this "run with a dev" achievement. I have to say it really grinds my gears to see them joining casual groups and trying to look impressive while not even doing top tier DPS and failing to manage healing on certain mechanics properly. I never encountered a dev in a group with an "EXP" label in LFG. 1 thing that really stuck out for me was this 1 Dev who was running on a WB but came nowhere close to what his DPS should have been. I know because I significantly outdpsed him on the same class in the same run with a simplified DPS rotation compared to the one they tried to nerf, I.e. the really complex one SC posted that benched 48k.

And did you complete the strike?

You did? Then what does the performance of a dev as a player have anything to do with balance?

Or maybe you just wanted to emphasize the devs aren't very good at the game (I don't think anyone here is surprised the devs aren't top tier) so they aren't allowed to update their game? Just saying but, you don't need to be anywhere near the benchmarks to complete that content....well, maybe for the SOTO stuff, I don't have that expansion...

[Puck.3697]

On 3/11/2024 at 1:45 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

think you misunderstand the point that "guardian" doesn't represent me or what I play. I don't play guardian. I play firebrand, mirage, tempest, virtuoso, and scrapper. It doesn't matter what willbenders or dragonhunters can do if I never touch them and their playstyles. This is true for a lot of players, so comparing by base class just doesn't mean anything to

Firebrand is a guardian. Just because you refuse to play 3/4s of your class doesn’t change that, firebrand is a trait line of a class. Your not separated just because you don’t play it. 
 

weather your firebrand, willbender or dragon hunter your all guardians.

if I wanna have a discussion about willbender, where do I go? The Guardian subsection of rhe forum

If I wanna talk about firebrand where do I go? The guardian subsection. 
 

You literally use the identical weapons utilities and traitlines, the only defining difference between you and a willbender is 3 traits in the last row of ur build. 

Edited March 22 by Puck.3697

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Firebrand is a guardian. Just because you refuse to play 3/4s of your class doesn’t change that, firebrand is a trait line of a class. Your not separated just because you don’t play it. 
 

weather your firebrand, willbender or dragon hunter your all guardians.

if I wanna have a discussion about willbender, where do I go? The Guardian subsection of rhe forum

If I wanna talk about firebrand where do I go? The guardian subsection. 
 

You literally use the identical weapons utilities and traitlines, the only defining difference between you and a willbender is 3 traits in the last row of ur build. 

Let's be real, any profession or spec in this game is a low bar to entry, especially with Anet giving away level 80 boosters. But mastery takes considerably more study. Even leveling takes a matter of a few hours with the new player bonus XP AP track. Depending on your chosen build and account wealth, switching from firebrand to vindicator is a lower bar than switching to dragonhunter because of gear purchase/grind and learning the new profession mechanics (both FB and vindi can use cele but dh doesn't). And it's not much effort either way. 

It's especially exasperated between FB and WB, arguably the slowest and second fastest classes in the game, respectively. If you think they are anything like each other, you play a different game than I do. 

Just because fb, dh, and wb share the same base class, doesn't mean they have anything close to the same gameplay. You have to learn different skill combos and styles for each. I consider myself a fairly decent FB player, I can't play DH or WB for kitten. I'm better on my mirage, virt, and vindi than WB, but not chrono. They are that different.

[RAZOR.7246]

7 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

And did you complete the strike?

You did? Then what does the performance of a dev as a player have anything to do with balance?

Or maybe you just wanted to emphasize the devs aren't very good at the game (I don't think anyone here is surprised the devs aren't top tier) so they aren't allowed to update their game? Just saying but, you don't need to be anywhere near the benchmarks to complete that content....well, maybe for the SOTO stuff, I don't have that expansion...

If you're given the responsibility of balancing a class, you should know what is actually broken about it instead of just changing coefficients and numbers just because of benchmark videos. If you can't reach that level in the first place and then try to make adjustments that don't really address the main issue with the build while hitting the viability of the build at every skill level, then it's just incompetence. We're talking about adjustments being made BECAUSE of how builds are performing at the highest level in a very optimal situation instead of amywhere else. Balance has nothing to do with completing content. It's about adjusting the viability of a build to compete with other builds for the same content. In any case, if they want to get more casual players into harder content, which they do, this way of balancing isn't the way to go about it. They have to literally break classes in terms of golem damage just to garner some interest and then nerf it in the wrong way which puts it back into obscurity. 

Edited March 23 by RAZOR.7246
Adding information

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

st because fb, dh, and wb share the same base class, doesn't mean they have anything close to the same gameplay. You have to learn different skill combos and styles for each. I consider myself a fairly decent FB player, I can't play DH or WB for kitten. I'm better on my mirage, virt, and vindi than WB, but not chrono. They are that different

Neither is support core guard anything like burn core guard, but their still both guardians even if play completely differently. 
 

we play a game where using a different weapon changes your gameplay, 

you can play FB, entirely without ever playing any other build, but that’s all FB is, a build Guardian is the class 

[rotten.9753]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:05 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

This is not the issue. The issue is that some builds attain certain performance easier than others. Yet even that is irrelevant since the game is power crept beyond what is needed for the majority of content by now. You are essentially complaining about there being fine-tuning at the top end level for a car which now can go 290 miles per hour instead of 300, while the speed needed to complete the race course is around 50.

The balance changes at the top end have almost 0 effect on the average player.

It is an issue when they balance based on the immobile golem and design encounters that are slightly more engaging. We have 6 cvirts stacks in half of strikes not just because it's easier to play. Golem balance was okay when raids was the high end content and it wasn't so punishing for e.g. melee builds.

[Leo G.4501]

4 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

If you're given the responsibility of balancing a class, you should know what is actually broken about it instead of just changing coefficients and numbers just because of benchmark videos. If you can't reach that level in the first place and then try to make adjustments that don't really address the main issue with the build while hitting the viability of the build at every skill level, then it's just incompetence. We're talking about adjustments being made BECAUSE of how builds are performing at the highest level in a very optimal situation instead of amywhere else. Balance has nothing to do with completing content. It's about adjusting the viability of a build to compete with other builds for the same content. In any case, if they want to get more casual players into harder content, which they do, this way of balancing isn't the way to go about it. They have to literally break classes in terms of golem damage just to garner some interest and then nerf it in the wrong way which puts it back into obscurity. 

So let me get this straight:

You teamed one time with a dev tag who was playing a spec you know and he was kitten. So it was THAT dev's fault that a particular nerf you didn't like occurred therefore they don't know their own game, consulted no one and you know better.

I'm not doubting your knowledge, but if you're attempting to get a spot on the balance team or a private ear of someone on the team, you're not going to get the kind of attention you want with the approach you're going. Just saying.

It's just funny to me how you're making your judgements and coming to your conclusions on what amounts to one encounter and barely any context. I know you're hurt about your precious spec, but there is more at stake. 

[Cyninja.2954]

29 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

It is an issue when they balance based on the immobile golem and design encounters that are slightly more engaging. We have 6 cvirts stacks in half of strikes not just because it's easier to play. Golem balance was okay when raids was the high end content and it wasn't so punishing for e.g. melee builds.

No, that's not the issue. Sure, cvirt being this dominant for specific content design is not ideal, but class stacking has always been a thing.

The question is: hiw difficult is the content on other classes, which might be slightly inferior. The answer here is: completely doable and not significantly harder (let's omit legendary Cerus CM, yet even that fight was beaten with a melee setup of slb). 

Class stacking will always be a thing because perfect balance is impossible. What is needed is more varying encounters which benefit aspects not every class provides equally well (which results in different classes being stacked) paired wjth leeway in difficulty which reduces the necessity for class stacking or making use of every benefit possible. Exactly what we see with raids by now, which have become hilariously easy and as such allow for greater build diversity.

[Fueki.4753]

6 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

If you're given the responsibility of balancing a class, you should know what is actually broken about it instead of just changing coefficients and numbers just because of benchmark videos. If you can't reach that level in the first place and then try to make adjustments that don't really address the main issue with the build while hitting the viability of the build at every skill level, then it's just incompetence. We're talking about adjustments being made BECAUSE of how builds are performing at the highest level in a very optimal situation instead of amywhere else. Balance has nothing to do with completing content. It's about adjusting the viability of a build to compete with other builds for the same content. In any case, if they want to get more casual players into harder content, which they do, this way of balancing isn't the way to go about it. They have to literally break classes in terms of golem damage just to garner some interest and then nerf it in the wrong way which puts it back into obscurity. 

Not all the developers playing the game also are part of the profession changes team.

For all you know, the developer you played with may have been part of the art department.

[rotten.9753]

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No, that's not the issue. Sure, cvirt being this dominant for specific content design is not ideal, but class stacking has always been a thing.

The specific content being pretty much most of the current high-end content. Sorry, but if designers design the new content that is much more dynamic than raids the balance cannot follow the same guidelines. People don't play cvirt in strikes because it's easier, they play it because it's better.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The answer here is: completely doable and not significantly harder (let's omit legendary Cerus CM, yet even that fight was beaten with a melee setup of slb). 

Completely doable with OP builds that were nerfed at the next possible patch.

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, rotten.9753 said:

The specific content being pretty much most of the current high-end content. Sorry, but if designers design the new content that is much more dynamic than raids the balance cannot follow the same guidelines. People don't play cvirt in strikes because it's easier, they play it because it's better.

Except all strikes and CMs are doable with classes that are not cvirt. You are essentially arguing that class stacking can be prevented with balance, which it can not. It's pretty much impossible to make balance so good that the highest end content does not see class stacking (though stacking can differ per encounter).

Quote

Completely doable with OP builds that were nerfed at the next possible patch.

and your point is? If cvirt was nerfed right now, another class would take its place and get stacked.

Reason being: class stacking is not solved via balance. It never has been, it never will be. Balance to that degree is near impossible in a game as complex as this. Yes, the 2 comps which succeeded (one of which was nerfed) based on the 2 most overpowered dps builds that could be used for the fight. That does not disprove anything I said, on the contrary, it undermines it. Unless you are going for a subverted "nerf cvirt" argument, which would not belong in this thread (not that I disagree, but this is about balance overall and outliers have and always will exist. (cvirt is just the current one) but you do you.

I explained this already: in order to get more diversity there needs to be leeway between what a class can do and what is required for success. The tighter this margin becomes, the higher the pressure to stack.

As such all content which is not aimed that high (raids, most strikes CMs even HT CM, etc). see diversity in dps builds. (cvirt might be the most popular choice atm, but it's not the only one).

Edited March 23 by Cyninja.2954

[Yogurt Goblin.5934]

18 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

And did you complete the strike?

You did? Then what does the performance of a dev as a player have anything to do with balance?

Or maybe you just wanted to emphasize the devs aren't very good at the game (I don't think anyone here is surprised the devs aren't top tier) so they aren't allowed to update their game? Just saying but, you don't need to be anywhere near the benchmarks to complete that content....well, maybe for the SOTO stuff, I don't have that expansion...

I think you've hit the nail of the problem on the head here, without realising it.

Do we expect devs to be putting out Snow Crows level benchmarks? No, of course not.

But if a dev is running around with a broken/overpowered build and can't even break middle of the pack in terms of dps, in a PUG, then that is an issue. The reason is they have the power to influence the game. Lets take WvW for example, its hard to actually keep track on what is overpowered there because there isn't benchmarks and stuff for that, but whether its roaming or zergs, everyone can think of a build that is just sad to play against, but if a dev plays one of these builds but they aren't good at it, they might see it as needing a buff.

[rotten.9753]

6 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Except all strikes and CMs are doable with classes that are not cvirt. You are essentially arguing that class stacking can be prevented with balance, which it can not. It's pretty much impossible to make balance so good that the highest end content does not see class stacking (though stacking can differ per encounter).

and your point is? If cvirt was nerfed right now, another class would take its place and get stacked.

Reason being: class stacking is not solved via balance. It never has been, it never will be. Balance to that degree is near impossible in a game as complex as this. Yes, the 2 comps which succeeded (one of which was nerfed) based on the 2 most overpowered dps builds that could be used for the fight. That does not disprove anything I said, on the contrary, it undermines it. Unless you are going for a subverted "nerf cvirt" argument, which would not belong in this thread (not that I disagree, but this is about balance overall and outliers have and always will exist. (cvirt is just the current one) but you do you.

I explained this already: in order to get more diversity there needs to be leeway between what a class can do and what is required for success. The tighter this margin becomes, the higher the pressure to stack.

As such all content which is not aimed that high (raids, most strikes CMs even HT CM, etc). see diversity in dps builds. (cvirt might be the most popular choice atm, but it's not the only one).

You can't seem to understand that cvirt is so popular because it fits the design of strikes much better than other classes. Strikes, unlike raids, force DPS players to do mechanics and those usually mean you have to move away from the boss. The toolkit that cvirt has plus the utility of core mesmer is simply too competitive. You seem to care only about its damage but it's far from being the problem, especially in harder CMs.

Edited March 23 by rotten.9753

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, rotten.9753 said:

You can't seem to understand that cvirt is so popular because it fits the design of strikes much better than other classes. Strikes, unlike raids, force DPS players to do mechanics and those usually mean you have to move away from the boss. The toolkit that cvirt has plus the utility of core mesmer is simply too competitive. You seem to care only about its damage but it's far from being the problem, especially in harder CMs.

Not 1nce did I mentioned cvirt damage. Not even sure what you are referring to. I am obviously talking about encounter design and class design and how certain elements fit better and work better, but the necessity for that is based on how much leeway there is with both.

A fight which needs 100k group dps, on a long timer with few mechanics will be far less restricted in terms of which classes can be used. Fights which are very strict on damage with lots of mechanics will favor specific classes. All of that is encounter design and has nothing to do with class design.

Class design follows encounter design but unless you have perfect class design to remove any and all disparities, you will always get class stacking at the top end. Class stacking has always been a thing for the top tier content, you won't get this removed. You simply replace the top flavor of the month class once one gets nerfed or you make multiple classes so over-performing that the encounter is not "top tier" any longer.

So I guess you were going for a run of the mill "nerf cvirt" post, given you provided nothing in regards to how game balance wound need changing.

Edited March 23 by Cyninja.2954

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

22 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

If you're given the responsibility of balancing a class, you should know what is actually broken about it instead of just changing coefficients and numbers just because of benchmark videos. If you can't reach that level in the first place and then try to make adjustments that don't really address the main issue with the build while hitting the viability of the build at every skill level, then it's just incompetence.

Wasting your breath my guy. These guys are delusional at best, no matter how many times you hammer those facts into those skulls.

You can make all the class and their rotation can be as broken as can be, and people like mr leo G will go though mental gymnastic to tell you that you're in the wrong because the fact you complete a strike/raid all of the sudden invalid everything you said.

 

 

22 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

It's about adjusting the viability of a build to compete with other builds for the same content. In any case, if they want to get more casual players into harder content, which they do, this way of balancing isn't the way to go about it. They have to literally break classes in terms of golem damage just to garner some interest and then nerf it in the wrong way which puts it back into obscurity. 

Anyway, I want to say my piece, because this is important. We will never get more viable build that isn't forced into some cookie cutter set up, because when anet balance around homogenization, Anet will do the exact opposite of what they intend to do.

This is because with homogenization, Anet have to put all the class to a certain standard to make it Easier to understand to the casual who won't even touch stuff like raids in the first place, and as a result, Anet have to completely strip away any uniqueness to the class and their elite spec that offer real tools, in favor of oversaturating boons to everyone, as well as a raising the damage floor so casuals don't feel left behind, and often, this will be a detriment to the vets who poured their heart and soul into their game.

If there to be a better balance, this homogenized path has to be abandoned, but it won't. Not when you have players who are spoonfed this crap, shaking their fist at you, and tell you that they're having fun Regardless of how many people a patch negatively effect. You can't take them seriously, because more often than not, they don't have balance and fairness in mind, only self interest.

Edited March 24 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Leo G.4501]

14 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Wasting your breath my guy. These guys are delusional at best, no matter how many times you hammer those facts into those skulls.

You can make all the class and their rotation can be as broken as can be, and people like mr leo G will go though mental gymnastic to tell you that you're in the wrong because the fact you complete a strike/raid all of the sudden invalid everything you said.

 

 

Anyway, I want to say my piece, because this is important. We will never get more viable build that isn't forced into some cookie cutter set up, because when anet balance around homogenization, Anet will do the exact opposite of what they intend to do.

This is because with homogenization, Anet have to put all the class to a certain standard to make it Easier to understand to the casual who won't even touch stuff like raids in the first place, and as a result, Anet have to completely strip away any uniqueness to the class and their elite spec that offer real tools, in favor of oversaturating boons to everyone, as well as a raising the damage floor so casuals don't feel left behind, and often, this will be a detriment to the vets who poured their heart and soul into their game.

If there to be a better balance, this homogenized path has to be abandoned, but it won't. Not when you have players who are spoonfed this crap, shaking their fist at you, and tell you that they're having fun Regardless of how many people a patch negatively effect. You can't take them seriously, because more often than not, they don't have balance and fairness in mind, only self interest.

lol apparently we can share the same outlook on the game but if you're not picking up a torch and pitchfork, you're doing mental gymnastics.

So, what have you done to actually protest Anet's questionable design choices?

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

12 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said:

So, what have you done to actually protest Anet's questionable design choices?

By telling it how it is. Hell, people had the same mindset when there were over 50 pages of complaints of a patch and Anet didn't listen.

The only thing that forced Anet to actually do anything to address their situation is an unhealthy combination of a controversy, and the death threat that were sent their way, and frankly, Death threats is going way too far, no matter the circumstance, so it's an outright tragedy that resorting to that, bore more fruit than just giving out feedback they're just throwing into the shredder.

So unless you want me to resort to being a degenerate, the next best thing is to vote with my wallet and go else where, but that doesn't mean I can't keep tabs on the game, too see where things are going.
 

Edited March 24 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267