Effective build for maces, wvw/pvp?

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

As the title asks, how should I effectively build for wvw/pvp with dual maces?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I'd say bunker.  You can also try a remorseless / midnight king build, but its less safe than a bunker build, so your results may vary.  

It's boring, but with bunker you can stand in zergs in WvW and also just perma-cap nodes in sPvP or perma contest them if the other side has a staff war or something.  Essentially same concept as the old Untamed D/D bunker but for power and not condi--can use basically any of the specs to do it as well.  

[Mell.4873]

Honestly it opens up many build options especially with full Celestial (or runes in sPvP). 

I changed my entire playstyle due to now being able to survive alot more. I can focus more on not being chain CCed. 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I'd say bunker.  You can also try a remorseless / midnight king build, but its less safe than a bunker build, so your results may vary.  

It's boring, but with bunker you can stand in zergs in WvW and also just perma-cap nodes in sPvP or perma contest them if the other side has a staff war or something.  Essentially same concept as the old Untamed D/D bunker but for power and not condi--can use basically any of the specs to do it as well.  

Hmm, mind elaborating on those builds or know where I can find info on them?

what is the Untamed D/D bunker build?

 

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly it opens up many build options especially with full Celestial (or runes in sPvP). 

I changed my entire playstyle due to now being able to survive alot more. I can focus more on not being chain CCed. 

What’s the build you’re using?

[Beddo.1907]

For pvp, probably something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POAFkMFbYZBsVGLzj5iH3kfUrEznG-DaJsMysC6NF84XAAA

For WvW I think maces on roaming are meh and zerg might be something like this:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEkEmpsCGCLktwKxjbyrVWi9vC-DWJYjRHfhkZFUdIkeC471BW8bzCA-w

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

what is the Untamed D/D bunker build?

It is this: Untamed - Staff/Dagger Untamed Duelist - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

Core principles for bunker is you want full melee (or possibly melee + staff), and a lot of protection, regen, and barrier.  You can expand that to add stability in certain manners too--basically Druid isn't the only way to make a bunker despite it appearing that way at first.  

For pets, you almost always want turtle and then something else tanky or that has some sort of CC/sustain abilities.  The metabattle one uses smokescale as the field grants stealth--but pure bunker (like with sPvP) you don't even really want stealth or you mess up point contesting / capture as can't contest when invisible.  

Edited March 26 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:54 PM, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

wvw/pvp with dual maces?

Wvw roaming, you mostly want a weapon that can give good mobility on a short cool-down.

Here are some options:

• Sword
• Staff
• Greatsword

Soul-beast gives added mobility you needed but can opt for druid or untamed if you can smoke-scale stealth reliably.

Having stealth is pretty key in ranger survivability more than ever, unlike other classes you don't really have that much reliable Stab generation with the exception of
Dolyak stance, Strength of the packs, glyph of the stars, forest fortification, and traits listed in untamed which generate Stab on CC.

 

With Maces, Considering they're mostly a multi strike weapon (2 and 5) they benefit more from skirmisher than Marksman. The only reason to take Marksman is to increase the duration of Stun & dazes and taking advantage of the damage increase from CC and Movement impaired targets.  If you take both you sacrifice a lot of defensive capabilities for intense power output.

Take quickdraw greatly improves burst potential & Mobility if needed. If you have enough mobility, Consider Vicious quarry, this pushes fury to 30% crit and cc someone with skirmisher naturally gives additional 10%. Realistically you can push your crit to maximum of 60% with CC and fury in mind would push you to 100%.

These are just idea you can use to theroy craft a build with dual maces.

My experiences are if u go with Skirmisher and Marksman, I recommend Soul-beast for the added mobility so your ins and out can be very strong. Greatsword or sword & warhorn is a perfect option for both defensive and offensive capabilities when you need to stall for Cool downs. With Quick draw you can double up on evades with sword or Blocks with greatsword.

 

Pvp in mind, you can really take anything tbh.... just comes down to are you doing a bunker opening strike build? Or you wanna go ham and 100 to 0 with maces. Ice relic even after the nerfs can really make the build go bonkers with One Wolf Pack. But I usually avoid Spvp due to toxicity between both sides of the team.

 

Again, these are just my input to my experiences and what I would recommend but don't take this as swift army knife or the perfect answer to everything. People find other ways to make Mace/Mace work, and sometimes you can even split those twin weapons into different sets.

 

 

Edited March 27 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Eurantien.4632]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAkmJllyWZhsMmLW0OaRrSkeFA-DaILjMLhezAbvNAAA

Your CCs heal you

You PUMP damage

You have mace 4 for cleanse and barrier.

Edited April 4 by Eurantien.4632

[EnderzShadow.2506]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:03 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The metabattle one uses smokescale as the field grants stealth--but pure bunker (like with sPvP) you don't even really want stealth or you mess up point contesting / capture as can't contest when invisible.  

First rule of pvp, don't die.

No one fights on point at all times. It's more important to live, to survive. Stealth lets me open without being seen and get out of trouble.
Smokescale has been top tier in pvp since release.

 

 

On 3/27/2024 at 6:39 PM, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

But I usually avoid Spvp due to toxicity between both sides of the team.

I dont find your opinion completely useless. But don't give pvp advice if you don't play pvp. If you think pvp in gw2 is toxic, have you played any other competitive online games?
It's tame in comparison.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

11 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

If you think pvp in gw2 is toxic, have you played any other competitive online games?
It's tame in comparison.

Yes I've played other competitive game, to be honest I've seen tamer. I won't argue that Gw2 is thaaat toxic but there time where you just want to stop playing it ether A someone has a mid-life crisis over a game or B ripps you for the decision you make when tactically it wouldn't make sense.

Toxicity come in many degrees and strides, gw2 is no exception.

11 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

But don't give pvp advice if you don't play pvp

I played it enough competitively to understand the functionality and the roles in that game mode, PvP depending if you're talking for conquest(5v5) to 2v2 or 3v3 I've played all. There's much to yearn on the improvement on that Game-mode, similarly to WvW to an extend. By all means, if you are having fun don't let my comment sway you. it is simply a personal opinion that I have about Spvp one I concluded after playing almost 2000 games with Ranger.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:27 PM, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

First rule of pvp, don't die.

No one fights on point at all times. It's more important to live, to survive. Stealth lets me open without being seen and get out of trouble.
Smokescale has been top tier in pvp since release.

Agree to extent, however dying has a purpose sometimes and also pure bunkers do just always fight on node to stall, see here:

No stealth, and nothing outside me seeing if I could fend off 3 people at once kills me.  I would have still died, but as I label in the video probably should have just backed up and kept the node neutral instead of running off it to try and stop the entire group.    

If you are a +1 / burst type then something like Smokescale is beneficial, however there you shouldn't be full capping nodes (only decap), so my point about stealth impeding capture isn't relevant.  

Edited April 13 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Blackari.2051]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:48 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Agree to extent, however dying has a purpose sometimes and also pure bunkers do just always fight on node to stall, see here:

No stealth, and nothing outside me seeing if I could fend off 3 people at once kills me.  I would have still died, but as I label in the video probably should have just backed up and kept the node neutral instead of running off it to try and stop the entire group.    

If you are a +1 / burst type then something like Smokescale is beneficial, however there you shouldn't be full capping nodes (only decap), so my point about stealth impeding capture isn't relevant.  

oh yeah.. nothing better than "showing the strength of a build" in unranked game where numbers of button pressed in every fight is less than me typing out this sentence with extra spicy random dodges 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Blackari.2051 said:

oh yeah.. nothing better than "showing the strength of a build" in unranked game where numbers of button pressed in every fight is less than me typing out this sentence with extra spicy random dodges 

Weird necro bro

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:02 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's boring, but with bunker you can stand in zergs in WvW

You don't play maces to "bunker" in a wvw zerg, you play them because they actually do good damage* and provide a setup for a GS/Hammer swap when you go big. Soulbeast, obviously.

Or you put it on a zerg support druid for a slight upgrade over sword.

*good damage relative to what ranger is used to in zergs.

 

Edited May 18 by Lazze.9870

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 5/18/2024 at 5:06 AM, Lazze.9870 said:

You don't play maces to "bunker" in a wvw zerg, you play them because they actually do good damage* and provide a setup for a GS/Hammer swap when you go big. Soulbeast, obviously.

Or you put it on a zerg support druid for a slight upgrade over sword.

*good damage relative to what ranger is used to in zergs.

 

I get it, but WvW is so bad now that might as well bunker and get bags from just tagging things.  More interactive version of old arrow cart ranger.  There's reason we put * near the 'damage' portion of this, as the damage ranger is used to might as well be zero, so maces kicks that up a few notches but still might as well passively tag things.  

On a more serious note, Druid seems like it would be better though for pure healer then just CC with maces/hammer/CA form. 

I'm not entirely sure though as I don't zerg, so my 'stand in zergs' was me standing in zergs lol'ing at the 5-target cap with a bunker build...it's not engaging but it was funny.  

Edited May 19 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I roam with mace-mace druid. It's surprisingly brutal.

[Lazze.9870]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:50 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I get it, but WvW is so bad now that might as well bunker and get bags from just tagging things.  More interactive version of old arrow cart ranger.  There's reason we put * near the 'damage' portion of this, as the damage ranger is used to might as well be zero, so maces kicks that up a few notches but still might as well passively tag things.  

On a more serious note, Druid seems like it would be better though for pure healer then just CC with maces/hammer/CA form. 

I'm not entirely sure though as I don't zerg, so my 'stand in zergs' was me standing in zergs lol'ing at the 5-target cap with a bunker build...it's not engaging but it was funny.  

Well, I'm comparing it to good players on actual meta builds. If I join an average squad with, let's called them uncurated players, I'm always at the top dps wise. Better to hover around 7k-12k dps and do some work instead if bunkering up. Big numbers are always more fun to look at.

Of course, Anet just now went ahead and the nerfed the damage modifier on going big for WvW as well. No idea why. It's not like maces are overperming in WvW.

Edited May 21 by Lazze.9870

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

maces are overperming in WvW.

Actually I think it was the amount of damage stack you can do in WvW which was kinda an issue. Wvw Isn't really that regulated with the amount of Bloated stuff in there, but I know spvp people were crying a storm about it. I took my mace build into Spvp and it just demolished lot of build I had trouble against, to be fair I think the Spvp nerf is deserved.

 

Loosing 5% dmg and reducing the co-efficient of Rampant growth isn't the end of the world. 1.0 to 0.91 is only slightly noticeable.

 

Anyways, theres a bug with Spvp mace when it double the 20% reset. so essentially you can get wild strike 25s to 15s. It's going to be shortly fixed.

Now if anything, it might be better to pair each mace with a different weapon than keeping them together in spvp.. I've been already talkin to other rangers about it non stop and sharing results and build crafts to see what flows and what doesn't

 

Also new Spvp amulet look interesting.

Tyrant is  - 1000 power and condi with 500 precision and toughness

Heretic is - 1000 power and Precision with 500 healing power and Ferocity

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Well, I'm comparing it to good players on actual meta builds. If I join an average squad with, let's called them uncurated players, I'm always at the top dps wise. Better to hover around 7k-12k dps and do some work instead if bunkering up. Big numbers are always more fun to look at.

Of course, Anet just now went ahead and the nerfed the damage modifier on going big for WvW as well. No idea why. It's not like maces are overperming in WvW.

7-12k DPS is a bunker though? Unless they've truly nerfed damage that much, I've massively scaled back on my WvW time, but a few patches ago I was getting 15k-20k sustained DPS on a power soulbeast.  

Maces were never about pure damage though, like hammer.  The playerbase, and anet, seem to forget this and just ignore the contribution of striders strength, ws traits, etc.  Without these, hammer, mace, etc. are going to hit like wet noodles.  

[Lazze.9870]

On 5/22/2024 at 4:39 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

7-12k DPS is a bunker though? Unless they've truly nerfed damage that much, I've massively scaled back on my WvW time, but a few patches ago I was getting 15k-20k sustained DPS on a power soulbeast.  

No, you're not getting 20k dps (as in average damage per second during the entire combat time) on soulbeast. Not in a prolonged fight against a somewhat organised squad with decent builds. Especially not a few patches ago when the damage mitigation was even higher than it is now.

And you sure as hell ain't getting 10k dps when bunkering up, whatever bunkering up implies. I'm assuming that means not going full zerker/maurauder/dragon gear.

Some of my guild mates nerd out on logs from our raids. The only time you see an average of 20k+ dps is in very short fights when someone hit a huge spike. Usually on Holo these days.

If you talk about dps, you're talking about your average damage from the combat time. You obviously see singular spikes in damage that are higher than 20k.

Anyway, that's not the point. Go mace/mace with hammer/gs, full marauder (ish), full soulbeast pve-like trait setup and dish out decent  damage. Or play support druid. Don't try to bunker up.

Edited May 23 by Lazze.9870

[Lazze.9870]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:46 PM, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

Actually I think it was the amount of damage stack you can do in WvW which was kinda an issue

It wasn't an issue in WvW. But just like several other nerfs directed at PvP ranger the last few patches, some of them has spilled over to WvW.

And yes, I know it won't be that much of a difference. But it makes Anet look completely out of touch. Soulbeast isn't the highest dps performer in zergs/GvGs, so it that's no reason to nerf them. If it is roaming related, then why the kitten haven't they done something about willbender yet? It literally outruns mounts.

Same with the nerfs they did to cleanses to make the sidenoder druid less powerful. There is no logic to hit cleanses that hard for a WvW druid when cleanse and heal are the two main things it does as far as support goes. The other support options got a plethora of boon applications and other utilities in comparison. Scrapper kitten out superspeed and barrier whiles also having some condi to boon covnersion, while rev has like 4-5 variations on support depending on what boon you want or if you need more heal/cleanse.

Edited May 23 by Lazze.9870

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

If it is roaming related

It's not.

Mace ranger is basically non existent and those very few i have encountered were no threat whatsoever.

Skill splits simply don't make any sense, it's just random. Or maybe dev bias, who knows.

Edited May 23 by Zyreva.1078

[Lazze.9870]

17 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

It's not.

Mace ranger is basically non existent and those very few i have encountered were no threat whatsoever.

Skill splits simply don't make any sense, it's just random. Or maybe dev bias, who knows.

I know it's basically non existent. But I don't know what's cooking at Anet HQ.

Their lack of skill splits and understanding of the meta has already relegated druid back to a second tier support. They just can't help themselves.

Edited May 24 by Lazze.9870