Anticipating some big changes for Condi

[Obtena.7952]

Check this out: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19600/upcoming-wintersday-balance-update

Purging Flames was even mentioned as a specific example of the change. I wonder what else we can anticipate. Biggest question is if condi is to be pushed into sustained damage territory, how does that change gear people have rushed to get from PoF?

[Kam.4092]

Nothing will really change other than Condition does more damage on fights that last more than 30 seconds. It will be a damage buff for Condition classes, which makes no sense. They should have buffed Power DPS instead.

I don't see gear changing at all.

[Asum.4960]

It also severely increases the time it takes to reach top potential DPS for condi builds, greatly nerfing trash clear speed, open world effectiveness and most importantly effectiveness on short boss burn phases.They also haven't mentioned a total DPS increase to compensate for that as far as I can see.

Depending on how far they go with this, condi altogether may become offmeta outside of some Raids, as Fractals etc. may be to quick for condi builds to ramp up to their potential "benchmark dps".

I really hope they don't overdo this, considering the top sustained DPS is, and always has been, a Power build in Ele as well.

Gear wise I don't see any changes coming. For 90% of the games content it might be smarter to give up some condi duration for more condition damage or even power, but since maxing duration will still give you the biggest number on a Golem (aka maximum potential DPS), that's what people will go for, even if it doesn't actually apply to most real scenarios.

[Ragnarox.9601]

This will be clearly buff for condi mesmers who can put shittons of condi and then go into stealth.

[Asum.4960]

@Ragnarox.9601 said:This will be clearly buff for condi mesmers who can put shittons of condi and then go into stealth.

I honestly don't see how this could be interpreted as a buff.Conditions will do the same damage, but will take longer to do so according to this.

Aka a direct nerf without benefit.

In PvP you will have more time to clear condis before you receive the same amount of damage, and in PvE it's a nerf across the board outside of bosses without phases, where nothing will change.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Ragnarox.9601 said:This will be clearly buff for condi mesmers who can put shittons of condi and then go into stealth.

I honestly don't see how this could be interpreted as a buff.Conditions will do the same damage, but will take longer to do so according to this.

Aka a direct nerf without benefit.

In PvP you will have more time to clear condis before you receive the same amount of damage, and in PvE it's a nerf across the board outside of bosses without phases, where nothing will change.

The example they gave, using a guardian skill even, shows a dps increase. 3x5 to 2x8, from 15 ticks to 16.

That isn't to say every change will be like that, but the devs have previously stated they want condition builds to outperform power builds given enough ramp time, and this seems to be in the same logic. Whether they manage to do what they have in mind is another thing, though.

[phokus.8934]

A nerf to pvp/wvw and buff to pve. Seems about right and fair at this point. Can't wait for this to go through honestly.

[Arcaedus.7290]

I think this will actually be a beneficial change for guardians playing against condi classes.

Right now, guards in pvp/wvw are most susceptible to condi-burst paired with CC of some sort. If condis do less burst damage, guards won't go down to them that easily. Condis lasting longer is a non-issue since a well-built guard will have ample condi clears over time.

This will most definitely hurt the burst of burn guards though unless they pick up some additional ways of adding burn (such as through weapon skills or a trait or two). Burn guards have never really depended on burn duration that much since Balthazar runes + smoldering sigil gave you all the duration you needed.

[chronometria.3708]

The idea of extending the duration of fire effects seems appealing to me. With a 100 percent burn duration, those extra seconds could really do wonders for sustained and chunky damage.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Asum.4960" said:It also severely increases the time it takes to reach top potential DPS for condi builds, greatly nerfing trash clear speed, open world effectiveness and most importantly effectiveness on short boss burn phases.They also haven't mentioned a total DPS increase to compensate for that as far as I can see.

Depending on how far they go with this, condi altogether may become offmeta outside of some Raids, as Fractals etc. may be to quick for condi builds to ramp up to their potential "benchmark dps".

I really hope they don't overdo this, considering the top sustained DPS is, and always has been, a Power build in Ele as well.

Gear wise I don't see any changes coming. For 90% of the games content it might be smarter to give up some condi duration for more condition damage or even power, but since maxing duration will still give you the biggest number on a Golem (aka maximum potential DPS), that's what people will go for, even if it doesn't actually apply to most real scenarios.

I.E. ... if you are smart, you will think about how this change affects how you play.

[otto.5684]

The change will not effect guardian much. It is a nerf for condi build in PvP, but not one plays condi build in sPvP so it does not matter.

I think the only class that needs a bit of a ramp up is mirage, but beside it, even scourge does not deal much damage without boon corruption. No other condi build is PvP optimal. Most of them are not even PvP viable.

[Kam.4092]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:It also severely increases the time it takes to reach top potential DPS for condi builds, greatly nerfing trash clear speed, open world effectiveness and most importantly effectiveness on short boss burn phases.They also haven't mentioned a total DPS increase to compensate for that as far as I can see.

Depending on how far they go with this, condi altogether may become offmeta outside of some Raids, as Fractals etc. may be to quick for condi builds to ramp up to their potential "benchmark dps".

I really hope they don't overdo this, considering the top sustained DPS is, and always has been, a Power build in Ele as well.

Gear wise I don't see any changes coming. For 90% of the games content it might be smarter to give up some condi duration for more condition damage or even power, but since maxing duration will still give you the biggest number on a Golem (aka maximum

potential DPS

), that's what people will go for,

even if it doesn't actually apply to most real scenarios.

I.E. ... if you are smart, you will think about how this change affects how you play.

I don't think it will affect me, and I'll still lawl my way through all content spamming 40k burns cause fire. I'm not going to cry, because I feel it takes a few seconds longer to do that now. It's not the end of the world.

I run full Viper's with Renegade Runes, and Sigil of Smoldering and Malice, and I use the Axe with the Axe Trait. I don't see anything changing. This is the new build with Virtues, instead of Zeal, etc.

I can't wait to read the confused replies people make in threads on Tuesday. Condi Benchmarks will be higher, and people won't understand the ramp up time needed. They will just read the benchmark numbers and rage.

[Aeolus.3615]

@"Ragnarox.9601" said:This will be clearly buff for condi mesmers who can put shittons of condi and then go into stealth.

ANet still pretending to miss what is the issue with condi, they dont want to take the burst out of it, just mask them.If they remove the condi gimmicks builds that will make player have to choose for some more "put effort" gameplay, so basicly it wont be a nerf nor a change IMO, everything will be basicly the same.

Doubt values will actuallu change by just -1 adding to stack... placebo.If i can do 12k burn ticks with guardian core means i will to 10k-11k burn ticks....but wil ltick more time if i can manage to ovherlem target condi cleanses..GG it will be actually easier to get carried with it.

Conditions will be to easy to spam n stack... wich is borking and making this game a lammer wars mostly, who stack faster and playes the easyest low effort build.

[CptAurellian.9537]

I welcome this change, but hope that we will not see an increase in the absolute amount of condi ticks across the board. They are more than strong enough on anything that doesn't phase/die after 30 seconds.

[Rennie.6750]

Condition is now going to be almost completely useless. Really frustrating.

[Obtena.7952]

@Rennie.6750 said:Condition is now going to be almost completely useless. Really frustrating.

You don't even know what the changes are :/

[Knox.8962]

Condi builds are currently dominating in almost every game mode. A small ramp up time change isn't going to dethrone anything by itself.

[Odokuro.5049]

Removing the burst and swapping in a ramp-up time instead isn't going to change anything outside of short fights, where is most or all cases doesn't matter. When it comes to longer fights on bosses/champs/people ect. you're still going to be doing fantastic, it's just now it's a war of attrition, how it should have been for ages.

[Kam.4092]

@Rennie.6750 said:Condition is now going to be almost completely useless. Really frustrating.

This will lead to Condition DPS being stronger, but need more ramp up time.

[otto.5684]

@Knox.8962 said:Condi builds are currently dominating in almost every game mode. A small ramp up time change isn't going to dethrone anything by itself.

Are they? Sure much of end game PvE they are preferable. If you exclude scourge and mirage, condi builds in sPvP are not viable and are not preferable in open world PvE.

Condi guardian, is not effective in sPvP at all.

[Knox.8962]

@otto.5684 said:

@Knox.8962 said:Condi builds are currently dominating in almost every game mode. A small ramp up time change isn't going to dethrone anything by itself.

Are they? Sure much of end game PvE they are preferable. If you exclude scourge and mirage, condi builds in sPvP are not viable and are not preferable in open world PvE.

Condi guardian, is not effective in sPvP at all.

They are top tier for nearly everything in endgame PvE. The vast majority of the complaints you hear about WvW are around condi damage at this point. sPvP may be the only place where people aren't complaining about condi being too good currently.

[otto.5684]

@Knox.8962 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Knox.8962 said:Condi builds are currently dominating in almost every game mode. A small ramp up time change isn't going to dethrone anything by itself.

Are they? Sure much of end game PvE they are preferable. If you exclude scourge and mirage, condi builds in sPvP are not viable and are not preferable in open world PvE.

Condi guardian, is not effective in sPvP at all.

They are top tier for nearly everything in endgame PvE. The vast majority of the complaints you hear about WvW are around condi damage at this point. sPvP may be the only place where people aren't complaining about condi being too good currently.

Ele, DH, holo and thief are all have top tier PvE builds. If all condi builds across the board are nerfed, then some of the above might need to be nerfed as well.

I think the problem is more that ranger, warrior, rev Mesmer and necro have no viable raid PvE builds. It makes much more sense to buff these versus trying to tinker with condi. Not to mention that a slower ramp up to condi will most definitely drive the vast majority of condi builds in PvP extentict and will not resolve scourge and mirage over performance issues.

[Atmaweapon.7345]

You didn't get the point. The one example they gave did not nerf the total Condi damage dealt. They are possibly increasing Condi damage across the board, but spread out over more time.

[TheBravery.9615]

don't get your hopes up. each balance update is always limited in scope and scale.

[leasm.1279]

From the example they gave, condi is getting a small change, not a big change. There are many skills/traits that apply a single stack of condition (such as justice passive), and nothing indicates they are touching those. A few selected skills dropping from 3 to 2 stacks will not be a big change at all. Of course we don't know exactly what is coming, but from the example so far the change will be pretty minor.

And in the end, golem benchmarks will probably increase, and people will be happy.