Bladesworn warrior is PRIME example why spec additions should not be a selling point

[Invoker.5462]

This spec weapon has 5 skills which do 10% lower damage than their non-spec equivelent. 

To make up for this there is a trait which boosts damage by 10% if 10 ammo is used. And it maxes out at 10% too (no fun)

Every skill in the bladesword is just low damage. I may as well be shooting the bow for the same effect except i get an AOE with the bow.

The focus mechanic is a comedy: While guardian specs build 2 instakill prep builds - the prep of the bladesword is not only 2x as long to execute, but it does... The same damage as a greatsword autoattack.. At full focus, it does less damage than the greatsword burst. This skill is telegraphed, slow, and easily inturrupted. It offers virtually no benefit whilst being a self-imobilizer. 

In short, the spec isn't just bad its blatantly bad

[Myror.7521]

Yep its 100% just a fashion spec.... the only reality where its just shines is in fractals and solo Open World stuff xd

[Sahne.6950]

13 minutes ago, Invoker.5462 said:

This spec weapon has 5 skills which do 10% lower damage than their non-spec equivelent. 

To make up for this there is a trait which boosts damage by 10% if 10 ammo is used. And it maxes out at 10% too (no fun)

Every skill in the bladesword is just low damage. I may as well be shooting the bow for the same effect except i get an AOE with the bow.

The focus mechanic is a comedy: While guardian specs build 2 instakill prep builds - the prep of the bladesword is not only 2x as long to execute, but it does... The same damage as a greatsword autoattack.. At full focus, it does less damage than the greatsword burst. This skill is telegraphed, slow, and easily inturrupted. It offers virtually no benefit whilst being a self-imobilizer. 

In short, the spec isn't just bad its blatantly bad

You came to that conclusion just now?

Since day 1, that spec was only functional, cuz it was glued together by ABSURD ammounts of raw healing.  

You take away the healing.... and you are left with......  nothing.

Edited April 22 by Sahne.6950

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Bladesworn is a bad spec held together by the ability to have absurd self sustain, formally an absurd CC in competitive, and in PvE by a bloated burst. All because some dev wanted to mimic a sword technique that is antithetical to the game play flow of their game.

[Shagie.7612]

i dont understand how you can make a very clear homage to jet stream sam, to gunblades, to the monster hunter longsword (and iaido in general) and it's just not very fun or functional

like, all of those things are very, very cool, you could have pulled it off in many different ways, what happened

[Terrorhuz.4695]

49 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Bladesworn is a bad spec held together by the ability to have absurd self sustain, formally an absurd CC in competitive, and in PvE by a bloated burst. All because some dev wanted to mimic a sword technique that is antithetical to the game play flow of their game.

I think bladesworn deserved burst skills akin to what mesmer has with shatters. F1, power damage (the leap); F2, condi damage (burn+blind AoE); F3, CC; F4, defensive (barrier + stab + prot), and remove the charge mechanic entirely.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I think bladesworn deserved burst skills akin to what mesmer has with shatters. F1, power damage (the leap); F2, condi damage (burn+blind AoE); F3, CC; F4, defensive (barrier + stab + prot), and remove the charge mechanic entirely.

Personally, I'd make Gunsaber the elite as a weapon kit, give BSW weapon swap back, and then park the Dragon Trigger bar onto F1-F5. I'd also get rid of having to charge two separate resources, just have the Dragon Slashes consume flow on use.

An alternative to preserve the iaijutsu would be to turn the dodge into flickerstep, where it flickers based on directional input so no ground reticle, and the AA flips over to Dragon Slash, like a mirage ambush. The GM traits would alter the form the Dragon Slash takes in that case. This version I would still put Gunsaber in the elite slot as a weapon kit. Core bursts could be returned along with weapon swap and Trigger Guard could be the F2.

Anything that bypasses the self-root and double resource charge would work really...

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Spec held together by hopes and dreams. 

But that's what happens when a certain someone puts his "OC do not steal" elite spec in the game. 

[Downstate.4697]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Personally, I'd make Gunsaber the elite as a weapon kit, give BSW weapon swap back, and then park the Dragon Trigger bar onto F1-F5. I'd also get rid of having to charge two separate resources, just have the Dragon Slashes consume flow on use.

An alternative to preserve the iaijutsu would be to turn the dodge into flickerstep, where it flickers based on directional input so no ground reticle, and the AA flips over to Dragon Slash, like a mirage ambush. The GM traits would alter the form the Dragon Slash takes in that case. This version I would still put Gunsaber in the elite slot as a weapon kit. Core bursts could be returned along with weapon swap and Trigger Guard could be the F2.

Anything that bypasses the self-root and double resource charge would work really...

Agree. Bladesworn needs weapon swap and a toggle f5

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Downstate.4697 said:

Agree. Bladesworn needs weapon swap and a toggle f5

Can you elaborate on what you mean by a toggle F5? Core only has F1, and the especs only have F1 and F2.

[Downstate.4697]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by a toggle F5? Core only has F1, and the especs only have F1 and F2.

I meant an f1. Similar to necro shroud

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

29 minutes ago, Downstate.4697 said:

I meant an f1. Similar to necro shroud

So tell me if this is what you had in mind:

F1: Enter Dragon Trigger, Dragon Trigger bar is as it currently is.

It is still immobile.

It still has to charge bullets.

Or is it this:

F1: Enter Dragon Trigger, with it's current bar.

It is mobile.

It does not charge bullets, but Dragon Slashes expend certain amounts of flow.

• They consume all flow and have tiered effect.

            or

• They consume set amounts of flow until no flow is left

In both cases the BSW stays in Dragon Trigger until left manually or all flow is consumed.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

All because some dev wanted to mimic a sword technique that is antithetical to the game play flow of their game.

I think the kicker is that the quickdraw sword technique would be suitable if, instead of raw healing gluing the spec together, the spec was more mobile and enhanced stun or immob in a reliable way. Other games have charge attacks in relatively fast paced games. Street fighter has them, Tekken has them, Smash, etc. It's not a bad idea, it was just executed in a way that didn't take into account that:

1.)The Jetstream sam role is being handed to a sentient player, when Jetstream Sam is a character designed to be a bullet sponge and telegraphed.

2.) Players don't like fighting other players that are bullet sponges.

3.) Good players react to telegraphs, invalidating the competitive edge of classes built completely around them, and bad players will feel robbed if excessively punished for a telegraph they should have otherwise avoided.

When you're delivering mechanics like this, you have to think about how the opponents will behave, and :

1.)  introduce tools to stop them from behaving that way,

2..) force them to behave in a way that makes the quickdraw viable (frame trapping, bait, deceptive animations and animation cancelling)

3.) Heavily punish anyone getting hit by the attack that has all the bells and whistles.

Otherwise, your special mechanic won't see play. And if your design predominantly features that mechanic, the spec will be a bad time for all involved, because you will either have to make the class using it a bullet sponge, make its high difficulty hits obnoxiously high damage, or accept that it will forever be danced upon by anything faster than it.

There's a billion ways to deliver this in a thematic way that also works in a pvp environment. Maybe your quickdraw destroys projectiles by cutting them out of the sky, instead of aegis just constantly making you bulletproof, which allows it to be used as a parry or immune mobility instead of just an easily whiffable attack. Maybe your quickdraw can be charged, then stowed a la cloud's limit meter. If gunblade/derivatives were a kit mechanic, with different kits being different styles that encompassed the themes of the Grandmasters, that would also have room for competitive play. 

But yknow. 

What I think would have tempered this design is if, in addition to this character as a reference, there was some research done into characters that have telegraphs, but mitigate those telegraphs with a handful of tricks that turn "will the big hit come now or not" into a guessing game.

That is, assuming this was intended to be used in PvP/WvW at all.

 

Edited April 22 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[bethekey.8314]

Mech is worse /thread

[Frequency.6407]

Needs a damage buff now to compensate for loss of healing.

Also, mech needs 100% increased damage (jade bot, not mech lol)

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Mech is worse /thread

Well, in term of design both mechanist and bladesworn were bound to be failed specs for PvP. It's hard to really label one as worse than the other from a competitive mode point of view.

Come on, on one side you got a spec that revolve around a mechanic that root the character for a few seconds to charge an attack that hit like wet noodle in competitive modes while on the other side you got a spec that rely on an AI mechanic (something that players can't stand losing against and is thus balanced to simply be "mediocre").

Edited April 23 by Dadnir.5038

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

18 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Mech is worse /thread

Rory beat me up with a shortbow mech am sick

[Flowki.7194]

I found the base concept of Blade fun, but it is mechanically too basic to remain engaging, and unjustifiable for it to be doing high damage/tank. I think they need to give warrior in general more weapons to swap to, and then reduce its traited sustain, a lot.

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Rory beat me up with a shortbow mech am sick

I would be sick too 😛 Mechs primary weaknesses are terrain and teamfights though, if you were 1v1ing.

In other news, Bladesworns are rumored to have been top tier not long ago, never knowing the sweet kiss of a projectile. Despite this, thread emerges calling Bladesworn PRIME example of poor spec design in an MMO where Mech exists.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

In other news, Bladesworns are rumored to have been top tier not long ago, never knowing the sweet kiss of a projectile. Despite this, thread emerges calling Bladesworn PRIME example of poor spec design in an MMO where Mech exists.

A class can be op and designed poorly. Some war players dont want to win simply because "immune to mechanic" carries their otherwise unpleasant experience. 

Quote

I would be sick too 😛 Mechs primary weaknesses are terrain and teamfights though, if you were 1v1ing.

Too late

Violently ill

Edited April 23 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

A class can be op and designed poorly. Some war players dont want to win simply because "immune to mechanic" carries their otherwise unpleasant experience. 

Very true, and I respect that. A cookie for those Warriors 🍪.

But the OP doesn't have a nuanced take like that. They just seem to want the big damage #s and otherwise seem ignorant/spoiled when it comes to defense mechanics.

On 4/22/2024 at 12:24 AM, Invoker.5462 said:

This skill is telegraphed, slow, and easily inturrupted.

I should probably find that clip of Yerloqq and Paul (top Warriors btw) eating Dragon Slashes left and right in their duel. Also, I believe Dragon Whatever was/is protected not only from all projectiles and had 2(?) instant cast teleports that give stability. Very easily "inturrupted" indeed, especially when you're trying to not eat 5k+ AoE stuns.

Complete disconnect from reality.

Do I need to remind everyone that Mech was probably THE most nerfed spec of all EoD and it's pinnacle build was Rifle Mech? Which to my knowledge was farmed in plat games every time?

Edited April 24 by bethekey.8314