World Restructuring Perma beta - Coming soon

[Ronin.4501]

All they've managed to do with the Spring/Summer update announcement is reinforce what so many of us already knew; THEY DON'T LISTEN. It's almost as if they went through the entire 400+ posts from the "What are they doing to WvW" thread, picked one reply at random and used that as their basis for the update.

Unless they force each one of the organized boonblob guilds to play on a different server, the WR betas will be no different than the current matchups. You'll either be on a 'have' server or a 'have not' server. And the kitten matchups will continue.

[XenesisII.1540]

59 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Knowing lord health is kinda important to decide how much time you have to contest if needed. If it's up you don't need to contest at all. Or just knowing when to leave if it's not viable to contest. You also will no longer need the infamous "they're on lord" message.

This will be especially useful in places like hills; inner is a death trap and it is very difficult for individuals to check the lord health

Meh I don't think all this fiddling with the lord makes any difference. Not when the objective upgrade status, convenience of travel, size and type of enemy and defenders participating is what determines if a fight happens in the first place, not what the lord health is at, what phase of buffs he's at. If an objective is T0 or 1 and they're already on lord, it's probably already lost, or if it's upgrade to T2+ or has iron guards or ewp, then maybe you have a chance to run to save it, and scouts would have most likely called the oj's as soon as they pop. But sure nice qol for scouts if they are even there to see the health and not parked in garri watching for swords on the rest of the map. They keep nerfing defenses so it's easier to break in, harder to stall, harder to upgrade for additional stall mechanics, now trying to upgrade the lord to bait groups to come fight on him.

All I know is all these changes, and the continued kittenery with class balance, are making me very discontent with the game.

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

This will be especially useful in places like hills; inner is a death trap and it is very difficult for individuals to check the lord health

that is if the attacking force is larger.
smaller groups might need the extra seconds a newly arrived scout needs to verify that someone is at lord, before they summon an endless horde upon them

[Sonderm.4639]

I'll say that much in favor of the 'perma beta' designation: Anet finally acknowledges the state WvW is in.

[Dawdler.8521]

50 minutes ago, Leaa.2943 said:

Like the reason there are que on the betas in the past is because PvE join WvW for the BUFF. When buff is gone PvE leave WvW. Like litterally on the hour the buff vannish PvE logs out. I mean do you not even have tools to see this? I mean i can see this without any sort of tool, because the min the buffs are gone, ques are as well. 

...except you know, since the API is public and available on several different community sites we do have the stats to see WvW activities and it had higher than normal activity even in the "worst" beta week where the forum proclaimed "no one was playing" without the buff.
 

Quote

 it is going to be 2 hours and then nothing. 

... and you're pretty much describing 12 years of normal primetime WvW.

[Sviel.7493]

Of course this is announced pretty much immediately after I say the timeline is immeasurable.  Well played, Anet.

The extra guild slot and timer are good, well-considered QoL.  I don't think I personally need either, but it's good to see them getting ahead of the curve.  Adding lord health to the UI is also a good idea.

Making Siege Disruptors unblockable is technically a good change, but QoL for a useless item is, itself, useless.  The entire siege system needs a redesign, but in the meantime they should avoid changes that make it even less interactive.  Unblockable Disruptors (or even Disablers) can still be mitigated by using non-proxy siege, but Anet has never once mentioned the words proxy siege so we can expect they will continue to ignore that it exists and, thus, continue to pretend that Siege Disruptors are generally useful in live situations.

Adding slightly more supply capacity to keeps is not going to change anything.  Supply is necessary for defense, but they consistently make changes (like the Disruptors) that make it difficult to effectively defend anything even if you have Supply.  A +50 increase in Supply cap isn't going to change how fast a structure flips or how players approach the encounter.  The +100 Supply on the tactic makes it even more of an auto-include and will likely be meaningful in the event that a zerg defense succeeds and repairs are necessary, but it's just saving a trip to a Supply Camp.  It will not, as they say, add power back to defense because there are insufficient meaningful ways to use Supply to effectively defend.  The buffs and nerfs are not happening along the same axis.

Chilling Fog is now a (probably useless) zerg tactic.  It will be no help at all unless you have a group large enough that you aren't being instantly vaporized and likely won't be enough healing to matter if you do.

---

If restructuring is to be successful in the long-term, Anet needs to acknowledge that big fights between player groups don't just happen.  They arise in zones of extended conflict over an objective where teams have opposing incentives.  If there's no point in holding something, there won't be many organic fights there.  If objectives flip in an instant, there won't be many organic fights there.  Simply getting zergs into objectives more easily will not result in more fights--especially when they already face no meaningful resistance from anything but a larger zerg.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

If an objective is T0 or 1 and they're already on lord, it's probably already lost, or if it's upgrade to T2+ or has iron guards or ewp, then maybe you have a chance to run to save it, and scouts would have most likely called the oj's as soon as they pop. But sure nice qol for scouts if they are even there to see the health and not parked in garri watching for swords on the rest of the map. They keep nerfing defenses so it's easier to break in, harder to stall, harder to upgrade for additional stall mechanics, now trying to upgrade the lord to bait groups to come fight on him.

I feel like this is a common enough scenario where you only need to delay for a few minutes but yes it requires non potatoes defending and taking turns. That being said I've spent most of WvW on a dysfunctional server where the structure flips before you get any actual info so my perspective is a bit skewed. And honestly if I get to the gate of the keep and still nobody was responding I'm just leaving.

For example on a Cele Trollbender or VindiTroll, you could easily troll the circle for a few passes, but for obvious reasons you cannot brake or else you will get lockdown. If that happens the only thing you can do is get out and disengage and you will have lost any opportunity and possibly even die because there are no more cooldowns left. So it's rather important to know about the status of the Lord. There's been quite a few keeps lost because the tag did not know they had to push at that moment and waited too long.

Granted as usual this is dependent on whether your server is wanting to keep this stuff, and there are few reasons at many times.

Paper stuff is whatever.

Edited May 14 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cael.3960]

Considering that the restructured realms are all likely to be 'full' by default, what we're really looking at are tiers without linked servers. That means less servers over all regardless of how many tiers are present. 

That extra tier on launch is just to accommodate the influx of players who want to see what the fuss is all about. It's also there to make sure that populations can be distributed evenly from top to bottom. Think about it, if you have 3 tiers and 8 full servers, that 9th server is going to be absolute trash to play on. Better to have 9 mostly full servers or 12 moderately full servers instead.

[Leaa.2943]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

...except you know, since the API is public and available on several different community sites we do have the stats to see WvW activities and it had higher than normal activity even in the "worst" beta week where the forum proclaimed "no one was playing" without the buff.
 

... and you're pretty much describing 12 years of normal primetime WvW.

I been here for the whole 12 years and played all hours all those years. Mind though the last 2 years i had to cut down my time due to other issues and only played prime on EU. And it might look like that on your server which i dont know what it is, but my server and the 8 others i have accounts on also play outside of prime, all though it is a lot more work to do so. And no i dont do karmatrain. But thanks for your input that was worth about nothing.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

hmm... Should I return to WvW?

has the delightful “let’s put you in a team brimming with noobs and casual players, and pit you against two server-fulls of the largest, albeit not necessarily the most skilled, guilds, so they can steamroll over you and bask in the glory of their inflated egos, thereby ensuring their continued patronage of our game mode” issue been resolved yet?

[Infusion.7149]

Lol perma beta was not the terminology that was used, but it is pretty accurate...

The 6th guild slot is a welcome change as well as the lord health in the UI but most of the other changes are fluff. You could say unblockable siege disablers might change something but I truly doubt it. 

If they are not going to acknowledge WvW players properly then at least add 0 AP collections for mistforged weapons and the WvW legendary armor for better tracking. In recent memory all that was done was adding Ultimate Dominator tiers with no rewards whatsoever other than a colored title.

To this day I still do not know how someone at Arenanet thought it was a good idea to have a white title for 10K WVW rank. I have long advocated for a 1st gen legendary weapon selection or something of that sort.

Not to mention the supreme rune of holding was added to convergences but not to the weekly WvW vendor so even if you have tons of grandmaster mark shards realistically you need to shell out for the new bags. The same goes for the nonsense that is the memory gobbler and the ascended salvage kits that require far too many memory of battle considering the skirmish tickets are still largely timegated.

 

P.S. As far as the walls issue, the fastest change would be to make the wall repair at 25% when contested and 10% when structure is not contested. 50% is insanely high.

Edited May 15 by Infusion.7149

[DeWolfe.2174]

Couldn't disagree more with everything they are doing. Might as well not call it World vs World any longer because it's not.

If I won a Mega lottery, I'd buy Anet a fire the lot of them. 12 years and this is what they do to the mode. 😩

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, Leaa.2943 said:

I been here for the whole 12 years and played all hours all those years. Mind though the last 2 years i had to cut down my time due to other issues and only played prime on EU. And it might look like that on your server which i dont know what it is, but my server and the 8 others i have accounts on also play outside of prime, all though it is a lot more work to do so. And no i dont do karmatrain. But thanks for your input that was worth about nothing.

No thank you for skipping the first part and just providing highly worthwhile input on the second tiny quote since it show you didn’t really have a rebuttal to looking at the overall statistics of WvW during beta weeks.

But if you are representative of WvW with your 9 accounts doesn’t that mean you leave 8 servers in the dust as they add your accounts to the fake “population” outside prime? Or did you mean to say you play all 9 accounts on 9 different servers at the same time outside prime because that would be impressive.

Edited May 15 by Dawdler.8521

[Mabi black.1824]

So we're not going to have alliances, we're not going to have WR, but we're going to have a permanent beta? Sounds weird quite a bit.

Now I really want to see all those complainers who have given up on defense because it's too much material to close a wall or because the circle has become too small. Because you'll soon find out what it's like to make defense useless for real. 🤞

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

So we're not going to have alliances, we're not going to have WR, but we're going to have a permanent beta? Sounds weird quite a bit.

Now I really want to see all those complainers who have given up on defense because it's too much material to close a wall or because the circle has become too small. Because you'll soon find out what it's like to make defense useless for real. 🤞

I'm curious where the link between defense becoming useless and WR without alliances comes in.

Did no defense occur during any of the previous beta weeks?

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

Potentially, it's the one-two punch of the blob/guild-centric direction of wvw's development being made crystal clear, plus the removal of any "home worlds" to care about.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I'm curious where the link between defense becoming useless and WR without alliances comes in.

Did no defense occur during any of the previous beta weeks?

Dear Dawdler, I just hope I'm wrong. Let's let some water flow under the bridge and we'll find out together soon.🤞