Seriously... another engi nerf... that's what they thought needed balance????

[Vinny.7260]

Anet and their funny philosophy...

> Elite Spec over performing.

> Nerf Core. 💀

[aymnad.9023]

9 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Who is arguing that you can't equip other utilities? They might not be good, but that's another issue. To get back to my point:

You called a 50% nerf on two meta utilities "small" and incorrectly said it only affected cleanse, while also informing everyone you're a first time Holo. Sometimes it's better to not comment if you don't fully understand what you're talking about, y'know?

You're already 6 comments in on this thread lol.

You can reassure yourself by thinking I never played it before if it makes you happy. I just said my first full season (also you keep saying on the forums you do not play holo so whatever). Also every point I made is still valid. 

Edited May 21 by aymnad.9023

[bethekey.8314]

3 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Also every point I made is still valid

Well if you say so, can't argue with that logic 🙂 

Quote

also you keep saying on the forums you do not play holo so whatever

True, at least in recent years. Despite that, I am still able to do basic math and understand the implications of non-holo trait interactions. Maybe you acquire those skills in your 2nd season of Holo?

Edited May 21 by bethekey.8314

[shion.2084]

2 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

You can reassure yourself by thinking I never played it before if it makes you happy. I just said my first full season. Also every point I made is still valid. 

except that a 50% reduction is not a "small nerf" to those skills.

[Endorphin.9147]

They should buff utility goggles and give detection pulse an extra effect tbh

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

4 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You realize it was a 50%+ damage nerf (less static discharge and quickness procs as well) on top of 50% cleanse nerf, right?

Yea those CD increases are insane. SD holo just tanked in power level and there's no engi build to replace it with. Big RIP

Idk I guess tools engi was way too good at nulifying condi builds, but those nerfs just giga nerf every aspect of SD holo synergistically.

The silver lining for me is now I can actually play condi engi into holosmith, assuming people will actually still play power holo

[Scatchtape.5109]

Absolutely GUTLESS move by arena net to nerf [Lock on]. 

Cowards.

[bethekey.8314]

42 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Yea those CD increases are insane. SD holo just tanked in power level and there's no engi build to replace it with. Big RIP

Idk I guess tools engi was way too good at nulifying condi builds, but those nerfs just giga nerf every aspect of SD holo synergistically.

The silver lining for me is now I can actually play condi engi into holosmith, assuming people will actually still play power holo

Yeah good take lol. I also play core condi and stealth burst scrapper; the nerfs help me overall because matchmaking often pitted me against favored Holos.

But even if we do better individually, core power didn't deserve this. Unless Turrets are getting a big rework/buff soon, Rifle Turret and Surprise Shot should have been left alone, with Particle Accelerator maybe eating the bulk of the nerf.

Granted, nerfing Holo alongside Vindi and Ranger showed some good foresight (Holo probably would have become dominant?). I refuse to believe they fully considered the synergistic ripple effects this would have though, like you said. Even 1 or 2 second increases to the cooldowns of Surprise Shot and Particle Accelerator would have had drastic effects on how well the build performs.

@aymnad.9023 points out that Engis can equip other utilities, but neglects how it's even more of a nerf to Static Discharge/Kinetic Battery builds to do so. Surprise Shot had an (untraited) 8 second cooldown and now goes to 12 (50% nerf to cast frequency). To replace Surprise Shot with Throw Wrench on Toolkit, that's going from 8 to 17 seconds (112% nerf to cast frequency). From Surprise Shot to Flash Spark on Spectrum Shield (212% nerf to cast frequency). Sure the effects are different, but:

1) The instant cast damage, Flashbang blind procs while stunned, Aegis clears, blind clears, and stacked burst potential from Surprise Shot were almost always more valuable than Throw Wrench and Flash Spark's blind.

2) A Static Discharge, Kinetic Battery Tools build rests on toolbelt cast frequency more than anything else. If you replace Rifle Turret and maybe even Photon Wall, then you might as well not choose Static Discharge/Kinetic Battery anymore.  Your role changes as you take stunbreaks/utility over raw damage, moving away from playstyles like Fresh Air Ele to more of a bruiser.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Beefs aside, engi didn't deserve this.  

[Khalisto.5780]

They should have made the reveal global

 

Feelsbad

[bethekey.8314]

57 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Beefs aside, engi didn't deserve this. 

https://imgflip.com/i/8qufw3

 

 

 

alt text, mostly for @Azure The Heartless.3261 https://imgflip.com/i/8qufyd

[JosephKatz.9375]

Engi/Holo deserved every bit of this, it’s just 5 years too late. I hope this was enough, but only time will tell. Lock on was one of the most broken traits left in the game, also one of the only passive ones with such huge impact that an engi would have to be super edgy to pick anything else. Good Riddance 🙇‍♂️ 

Edited May 22 by JosephKatz.9375

[Myror.7521]

To be fair lock on was the only thing too strong .... the Rest of the nerfs are pretty mutch not needed and dump xp

Im dump i meant the flashbang traitline xD....

Edited May 22 by Myror.7521

[WingSwipe.3084]

11 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Anet and their funny philosophy...

> Elite Spec over performing.

> Nerf Core. 💀

Every. Single. Time.

[RidleyDay.3056]

oh, thank heavens! i was considering reinstalling after checking the patch notes the other day. glad i decided to save the space on my SSD. back to elden ring!

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

21 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Yeah good take lol. I also play core condi and stealth burst scrapper; the nerfs help me overall because matchmaking often pitted me against favored Holos.

But even if we do better individually, core power didn't deserve this. Unless Turrets are getting a big rework/buff soon, Rifle Turret and Surprise Shot should have been left alone, with Particle Accelerator maybe eating the bulk of the nerf.

Granted, nerfing Holo alongside Vindi and Ranger showed some good foresight (Holo probably would have become dominant?). I refuse to believe they fully considered the synergistic ripple effects this would have though, like you said. Even 1 or 2 second increases to the cooldowns of Surprise Shot and Particle Accelerator would have had drastic effects on how well the build performs.

@aymnad.9023 points out that Engis can equip other utilities, but neglects how it's even more of a nerf to Static Discharge/Kinetic Battery builds to do so. Surprise Shot had an (untraited) 8 second cooldown and now goes to 12 (50% nerf to cast frequency). To replace Surprise Shot with Throw Wrench on Toolkit, that's going from 8 to 17 seconds (112% nerf to cast frequency). From Surprise Shot to Flash Spark on Spectrum Shield (212% nerf to cast frequency). Sure the effects are different, but:

1) The instant cast damage, Flashbang blind procs while stunned, Aegis clears, blind clears, and stacked burst potential from Surprise Shot were almost always more valuable than Throw Wrench and Flash Spark's blind.

2) A Static Discharge, Kinetic Battery Tools build rests on toolbelt cast frequency more than anything else. If you replace Rifle Turret and maybe even Photon Wall, then you might as well not choose Static Discharge/Kinetic Battery anymore.  Your role changes as you take stunbreaks/utility over raw damage, moving away from playstyles like Fresh Air Ele to more of a bruiser.

Well news on the grapevine is engi is getting some serious compensation buffs come June balance patch. 

[bethekey.8314]

3 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Well news on the grapevine is engi is getting some serious compensation buffs come June balance patch. 

1. Holosmith becomes meta

2. Core gets nerfed for Holosmith (Grenades, Rifle Turret, Shield, Healing Turret, Inventions traits, Alchemy traits etc.)  <--- We are here

3. Other core skills gets buffed as compensation (Rifle autos, Flamethrower, Toss Elixir U etc.)   

4. Buffed core skills gets nerfed to state worse than it was before (Rifle autos, Flamethrower, Toss Elixir U etc.)

5. An expansion gets released

[shion.2084]

On 5/22/2024 at 5:35 PM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Well news on the grapevine is engi is getting some serious compensation buffs come June balance patch. 

News on the grapevine was very wrong.  Nothing that will help compensate for a 50% damage hit, or help my scrapper for that matter.   

[shion.2084]

17 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

News on the grapevine was very wrong.  Nothing that will help compensate for a 50% damage hit, or help my scrapper for that matter.   

you could try taking alchemy instead of tools, but quickness is predicated on chrono rune and gyros... so you can't slot elixirs.   And alchemy is predicated on elixirs which no-one can take enough of in a viable build to make those changes of any value.

THEN they fixed the huge hit to SD by making nades better... cause no-one ever complains about every damned viable engineering build needing nades.  And they didn't just finish nerfing nades so lets bring it back.... So they took away one of the few builds that didn't rely on it as a crutch.   Plus they only gave the boost in PvE.... what complete incompetence.

Edited May 27 by shion.2084

[shion.2084]

They may have just allowed for some very condi resistant core engi builds..... So for those totally OG core engi folks out there... congrats!   That's my prediction a rise in happy Core engi's 🙂. (as if they weren't annoying enough)