New Fractal 100 Lonely Tower - NM Easy? - CM Too Hard? - Fat Discussion & Guide For Completing The CM

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

This thread began before the release of the CM. All discussion in opening post & page 1 was base on normal mode 100.

CM discussion begins on page 2.

I did edit and add the CM Guide into this OP past later. But the initial OP post was based entirely off of first impressions of normal mode.

----------

This fractal is easy on normal mode.

This fractal is extremely difficult on CM mode. Here is a guide how to complete it -> GW2 Lonely Tower CM Guide (youtube.com)

 

Alright, I see a lot of people complaining about Lonely Tower. They're mostly complaining about the difficultly. Let me explain "why" people are having problems in this fractal:

1. There is a lot of unblockable DPS being thrown around. Even the shockwave is difficult to jump over compared to other shockwaves.
2. You don't even have to get CC'd to get hit by the unblockable DPS because there is so much of it.
3. There is so much consistent DPS being thrown around, that DPS roles feel like "they don't have enough dodges or self defenses" and supports feel like "they don't have enough support to keep up with all the consistent DPS." I was seeing groups trying to run double support on this boss.

Look, what's happening here is not a bloated boss that is too difficult, it's just a boss that isn't the same formula as every other fractal boss. What we're looking at here is a new boss formula in the fractal pool that challenges the idea of "The Healbrand being the best support" because the aegis spam isn't doing squat to mitigate the consistent DPS due to unblockables & frequent damage strikes, and the stability isn't mitigating the damage either. This boss formula also challenges the old meta formulas, you know the idea behind: "DPS should run full DPS with no self defense and just let your support worry about support" because there is so much consistent striking & incoming DPS from the boss, that it's actually worthwhile to drop a DPS utility or two, in favor of defensive utilities that offer personal preservation.

This boss is not a DPS check in the same way other fractal bosses are. It's a sustain check. Look man, when Nightmare CM first arrived, it was similarly difficult or I would say more difficult than Lonely Tower is now, for sure. And the idea there originally before 2024 power creep, was that Siax was a DPS check. If you couldn't split the party and pass the DPS check on the north south east west phase, you fail. Then Ensolyss, way way back before sustain creep, was a massive sustain check. But even with Ensolyss, it was more about knowing mechanics than attribute-tied sustain check. This new boss in Lonely Tower is not just a mechanics check, but it is actually a fat attribute-tied sustain check.

Listen up > This boss challenges the old meta formula of "HB is the best sup - DPS should run full DPS no self defense" because it has so much damage being thrown around, that sometimes you have to pick & choose which damage you're going to take or avoid, because you can't avoid it all, and this means you will be forced to soak damage at times and it usually happens at a bad time when you're split from a support. This is because Healbrand IS NOT the best support option in this fractal and DPS roles should be bringing at least 1x personal life saver utilities to make sure they can survive those moments when they will be forced to take damage.

No energy sigils, no personal defensive mechanisms, and trying to lean on Healbrands, is just not optimal in this fractal.

Let me tell you what is:

1. Run Heal Alacrity Scourge over Healbrand. This is because aegis spam can't do its job in this fractal, and stability hardly matters here. You're going to take damage in this fractal. It's a fat sustain check like Ensolyss cap phases. The Heal Scourge will pump so much barrier that as long as the party can stay relatively near the Scourge, it will mitigate most of that unblockable damage. It's important to note the difference between healing and barriers. Healing has to be done AFTER people take damage. Healbrands or any other direct heal class has a problem being able to react to party damage in this fractal because their damage mitigation tools don't work here. The barriers work preemptively. So in this particular fractal, it's just A LOT easier for Heal Scourge to mitigate damage & heal, than it is for a Healbrand or say a Heal Druid. Also, if a person gets into downstate, the Heal Scourge can F3 to teleport the downed body into a better position for a quick revive. <- This is important in this encounter due to all of the ground AoE damage and the pull phase.
2. DPS should all bring at least 1x personal sustain utility instead of full DPS utilities. You don't have to change your entire build! Just swap 1x DPS utility out, and put in 1x defensive utility that is good vs. this encounter. In example: A Soulbeast brings Dolyak Stance over Frost Trap, or a Virtuoso brings Blink to ensure he can quickly move to a safe position if something goes wrong. This greatly assists your support in being able to do its job. You're suffering a minimal DPS loss in favor of like quadrupling your entire party's sustain if everyone does this.
3. Make sure you bring ranged pressure. The builds listed that are full melee designs, are just bad in this encounter. Again, this boss formula is different. You really want ranged pressure in this encounter. It is a sustain check, not a melee DPS check.

But yeah, if you just think outside of the box, any group can figure this out ^ in like 3 or 4 tries. Not difficult to do.

Honestly I'm glad to see a boss with a different formula, and I can't wait to play the CM for this one.

Edited June 9 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Supernova Starr.2069]

This fight is not hard, it's just horrible design, one single envy empowerment and you might as well gg cause turning every single attack in boon corruption is already a CM design (I'm genuinely curious on how the actual will be), not only you need insane cleanse, you also need insane mobility to pick every single orb, specially the ones dropped while he's doing the annoying pull.

Also running double healers might be the best strat for pugs (at least for now).

Edited May 24 by Supernova Starr.2069

[maxwelgm.4315]

I think people do realize their "new formula" involves sustain checks (Silent Surf and Cerus have similar forced stat check mechanics, especially Cerus CM last 10% or empowered gluttony for the title). Understanding it doesn't mean we should like it. In a game where dodging is a central mechanic and clever active defenses have been central for more than 10 years going this route is not as nice a change of pace as you're making it sound. It's not refreshing and it's not consistent with the tools we have available in GW2. In fact these mechanics are much more similar to older MMOs such as Lineage 2, WoW and Wildstar. 

I'll still have the CM title for collection purposes and I can still beat normal easily by doing just what you said and bring reactive/passive defenses to overcome the raw unblockable damage - that doesn't mean I'll enjoy running this daily at all or recognize it as good design, I just understand it. I'll get every achievement for the fractal and then possibly never touch it again as I already don't touch Silent Surf.

[Asuran.5469]

agree with OP

new things is fun

ty for explanation btw

[TheNurgle.4825]

A lot ppl playing only GW2 will struggle in Lonely tower, but if you play any other MMO's instanced content, then you will be fine. GW2 combat always had huge potential, but most ppl are used to stack up, use aegis for certain attacks and burst boss before it can do anything. It is always sad to be in group where "failed" burst = gg and sometimes it take longer than actually kill the boss after first burst fail.

[Nimris.3781]

Let me tell you why this fractal is bad

- essences are thrown left and right, constantly, all while there are lots of area-denials etc. its basically running around all time collecting essences while occasionaly throwing dps skill.  even kanaxai with all his spread mechanics and boring number mechanic had clear parts where you could safely dps for a moment. Eparch? none, if you stay dpsing for a moment he will likely collect some essences.

- the ground clutter is real, puddles, cracs and than arrow skills is already too much, but you can also get [flux bomb] and [toxic trail] making it just horrible.  all while you should be collecting essences

- he throws essences after every attack (way too often if you include succ, arrow skill, etc..) also just before cc. he can literally throw envy and collect it right away at 95% of hp. doing cc may or may not remove it making fight fell very annoying from the start with no controll over it ( i have leterally seen him do this, collect 6 esences, lose 1 after cc and start corrupting right away)

- boon corrupt to this extend is beyond annoying and has 0 counterplay. boon corrupt was always despised in pve and this fractal takes it to another level. this also makes some specs terrible because they apply boons rarely in big chunk (like alac rene) or have built in stability (i.e untamed, druid)

- his succ skill is way too strong and too long, on a top of that he always start casting it if his target is in melee , so that 1 person is "F" and has to accept his fate pretty much.

- his wave skill, wave visual doesnt match actual hit, not only that, but beside creating wave he also does big hit in melee that has no telegraph/range marker etc. you think you can just jump over wave and you suddenly get 60->0% by invisible melee component of this attack.

- his cracks for some reason can sometimes hit you if you try jumping over them, probably visual doesnt match well with their width. (and cracks are fat as hell)

- [Afflicted] instability, oh my god... this should be permamently banned on this fractal.  with all unavoidable dmg going on (especially his succ skill!) and some boon corrupt on top of that, thats nope. just nope

- finally, fight in its current state should be cm, if it remains as standard t4, noones gonna do it.  moreover i am not sure what stupid things they plan for cm, but i can already predict "skip"

currently this fight is straight up frustraiting and bad to the point that some groups even try double heal, man... people thought that kanaxai was bad but that fractal has reached new hights. kanaxai (especially cm) when released was bugged as hell and it left bad taste. eparch fight doesnt seem bugged much, its just terrible design

Edited May 25 by Nimris.3781

[AliamRationem.5172]

The fight seemed okay, I guess.  I tried it for the first time today with my guild.  We failed our first attempt, then beat it on the second go.  Normal comp, no second healer.  But the mechanics are annoying.  I feel like I can't do anything as a melee DPS.  Just keep running out to avoid mechanics and gather orbs.  It's a frustrating fight for that reason.  More importantly, it's boring.  He just repeats the same moves over and over.  Like just about everything else we've seen with this expansion, it feels low-effort.  I'm getting really disappointed with ANet.  This studio really isn't what it used to be.

[harry.4267]

my 2 cents worth is that it's pretty good, with a bit of polish and time for us to get used to it, i think people might come to view this as one of there favorites.

[Ashantara.8731]

I like it, too. A bit chaotic at first, with way too many AoE fields, but I think once you get used to the mechanics, it will be okay for most players.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Update after doing every achievement: the so called "innovative" sustain approach completely breaks the fight. Had a scrapper heal+alac specter and 3 scourges completely devastate the fight with basically 4 people afk inside the hitbox and the supersped scrapper grabbing only the closest orbs to boss. The hitbox actually prevents the fissures from hitting you, and the only real dangerous attack is the corrupting shockwave which can be jumped if done by the time he lowers his weapon. Tried again afterwards just spreading around and result was the same - aside from the corrupting shockwave, just ignore everything else and let your "new sustain meta" build handle the raw damage, you can walk on top of the red circles and fissures and chill on top of your scrapper buddy.

All things considered, we had to make an unreasonable effort to learn the mechanics because even failing them was difficult. This fight is simultaneously too much for bad pugs and too little for veterans. If the CM is "same mechanics, but lethal" I will definitely get the title (if they even give us one this time I guess?) and skip it on the daily. Old t4s+CMs still the MVP...

[Cyninja.2954]

Torn between:"they have no idea" and I really shouldn't share. Let's wait until the CM releases and see if things change.😏

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

I've never seen an encounter so melee unfriendly in my life.  Why does anet keep making content like this.  Its just like Cereus CM.  Bad design

[Nash.2681]

16 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I've never seen an encounter so melee unfriendly in my life.  Why does anet keep making content like this.  Its just like Cereus CM.  Bad design

Had no time to try the new fractal yet, but this seems to be a pattern lately. Would you say it's worse than OLC (didn't buy SotO, so that's the most melee unfriendly fight I can think of yet)?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

44 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

Had no time to try the new fractal yet, but this seems to be a pattern lately. Would you say it's worse than OLC (didn't buy SotO, so that's the most melee unfriendly fight I can think of yet)?

uh its definitely worse than OLC, by a lot. It would very difficult To melee it.   he puts down an aoe spin move frequently, he does an aoe suck in move that wrecks melee, he also puts out an aoe ground laser things where some of them will hit you if you're in melee range and they will all hit you if you're inside the boss,  He also does a shockwave with a wonky hitbox that you have to jump over and its almost impossible to jump over at melee range.  He also puts pools all over the arena so any misplaced forced movement skills will put you in one.  He does all these skills with no warning or tells, instantaneously, except for the Shockwave.

not to mention the entire fight revolves around disengaging from the boss to pick up orbs (otherwise he gets a buff), so if you're melee you'd have to walk away from the boss and get the orbs, and then run all the way back to the boss and jump over the fissures he puts down and avoid the pools on your way back just to re-engage.

Edited May 27 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Aight, this is ridiculous. People really are avoiding 100, even CM/NA groups.

Like I'm having a hard time finding groups who are willing to run this fractal. This is silly.

They all insist on HB meta, don't want to break it, and are bullheadedly avoiding 100, even when it's a daily.

I mean this is not difficult to run if you just bring aheal scourge. It really really isn't.

Edited May 27 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I'm still not sure if I have figured out the mechanics correctly.
You want to grab the emotional essences to buff yourself before Eparch does, right? Different essences provide different buffs. Like the Envy emotion buffs your condition damage for example. But you can basically only collect one type of emotion, because every other will override/delete one stack of the different emotion. Eparch can steal your emotion buffs as well (still haven't figured out which of his attacks does that though).
The brain twister are for me:

You want to buff yourself with one specific emotion. At the same time you want to avoid any other emotion. However, you also want to avoid Eparch from accumulating too many emotions. For this reason the best option would be to stand in the mid to bridge the time gap for collecting emotions. Yet, the fight seems to favor ranged DPS, especially due to that sucking attack which is way too strong in my opinion. You still want to stack together for heals and boons (I guess).  Standing in a corner to minimize damage contradicts to the favorable ranged DPS, because it takes longer to  traverse over the minefield of AoE effects. And splitting the group makes players vulnerable. Another thing: By avoiding specific emotions, you are destined to give Eparch buffs. It would mean, you want to set specific roles before the fight starts: Who collects which emotion. However, sometimes a player is not close enough to collect said emotion. And when the time runs out, Eparch receives the buff. It would mean, another player has to sacrifice their stacks.

For me, these things don't line up at the moment. Maybe I still haven't figured out the whole encounter. So, let me know what I'm missing.

TLDR – contradictory mechanics (for me): 
- Standing in the mid/melee combat makes the group vulnerable. While fighting on range makes them probably miss the emotion drops. Splitting the team makes players vulnerable;
- collecting a specific emotion and avoiding another increases Eparch's skills/attacks. Setting roles for just one encounter seems a bit exaggerated.;
- you never know where emotions drop. You can not be sure to get what you want, and by avoiding specific emotions -> see above

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

~ edit - removed the NM first run through video. CM Guide explains what you need to know, even for NM.

Edited June 9 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Furball.1236]

It's funny how some people come to the forum and complain about the new content because they couldn't finish it.

"I'm a master of this game. If I can't kill it on Day 1, ANet is a kitten developer" lol

Look at those 10 "confused" reaction to OP's post while they tried to explain how to fight

[mandala.8507]

The fractal is an objectively weak addition to the pool and probably in the running for worst fractal.

The environment is entirely reused from SotO, and they didn't even attempt to be clever about it. The asset use and placement from current era Tower and the Lonely Tower is almost exactly 1-to-1, with only the most basic of alterations like a handful of rubble piles and the quick-time event mini-game vessels. Silent Surf absolutely embarrasses this fractal comparatively, because while still mostly just reusing EoD assets (and ALL fractals are exercises in asset reuse, btw), it was done artistically and looks distinct from anything we saw in that expansion. Zojja's desk assets are arranged exactly the same in the fractal as they were in the story instance, which is just...yeah. There was almost no effort put into making this fractal feel like it exists in the past from an environment design perspective. It's full on copy-paste.

Secondly, the story is so thin on the ground that the fractal might as well not have had any dialogue at all. I learned nothing from this fractal that I didn't already know from reading lore books throughout the expansion. It's very much "this could have been an email" coded. You can't give me a dead Wizard's Court member or ANYTHING? Not to mention most players interact with fractals long before they ever get to the later expansion stories, so this fractal is going to steal every cool character reveal from new players before they play SotO for the rest of time. It's a blight on the narrative and world-building in that regard.

Third, outside of the Eparch fight which I imagine began its life as the fractal boss and then was shipped to the story later, there is not a single new gameplay mechanic to speak of. The AoE corridors? Reused Cerus and Deimos skills and practically a non-issue for players. In most difficulties you can just run through them, hit a cleanse or 2, and you're good to go. The quick-time mini-game? So stale and overused that it genuinely tilted me when I was soloing the fractal at lower levels and had to do it 5 times in a row while skill-clicking my instant cast stability utilities even though I wasn't failing them. If I never saw that mini-game again in my life, I'd be happy. New puzzles? Nope. Cool navigation/movement-related gameplay? Also no; just run through two incredibly short hallways masquerading as actual gameplay until you show up to Kryptis brother tag team encounter.

And speaking of that duo, it is again another shameless copy-paste job. The bosses do wet-noodle versions of their mechanics from their respective raid and strike mission, have an annoying fixate and split mechanic that makes absolutely zero sense to do in fractal content where there are only 5 players, and they don't utter a word, despite being the most chatty demons in existence. I feel like they exist solely to prevent the fractal from having a run time below 5-minutes and turn the fractal into optimal farm content.

And yes, I did notice the Deimos model has some note-worthy alterations. Awesome. But it's not like anyone can actually see him under the deluge of AoEs firing constantly in order to appreciate it.

And no, I don't agree that "the Eparch fight is actually interesting and good, but I just don't understand it". It's another role assignment meme where I have to get my group members to claim colors so that we have a chance of actually making a dent in his enormous hp bar and not getting one-shot or boon-ripped because someone missed a spot while cleaning the boss arena with their feet. It's yet another boss that necessitates ranged builds. It has bad telegraphs and cursed randomized mechanic sequencing. It has a comically huge cc bar (and yes, I know that the orb mechanic interacts with that, I just played alacrigade in daily CM runs for a decent period of time and think it's silly for one player to be the designated CC role)...

I could keep listing gripes with the main fight itself, but at the end of the day its greatest sin is being unfun and frustrating. It doesn't embody the spirit of fractals at all (which has nothing to do with running firebrand, btw), and I'm fully convinced the only version of the fight given much thought was the CM, which will of course be the hardest CM fractal in the game to bury the fact that the fractal isn't fun under undeserved praise simply for being difficult.

If it weren't for the Flame and Frost story dungeon fractals that are completely redundant after the reintroduction of living world season 1, this Lonely Tower fractal would be my number one pick for removal from the pool.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

OK, update for everyone on how to most easily cheese this fractal for both CM players and normal T4 players:

1. If CM players -> aheal scourge - qdps chrono - 3x cdps virt - have every mesmer bring blink - and we have nothing but ranged pressure - easy & fast
2. If T4 players -> aheal scourge - heal druid "have the druid switch ancestral grace to lingering light for the encounter" - any qdps + 2x hard dps - make sure the qdps and dps bring personal mobility skills like blinks or weapon kits with mobility like engi jump shot or ranger gs swoop - easy carry

Here is a video from earlier today when I explained to a new group in 2 minutes how to do this and they completed Lonely Tower on the first attempt. This was was also nearly full-worst case scenario. We had afflicted & outflanked. The only way it could be worse was if it also had hamstrung or toxic trail.

Btw I don't do this stuff to try and be a famous youtuber or streamer. Don't really care.

I enjoy participating in the community of the game's I like. In this particular case with GW2 fractal 100 Lonely Tower, I'm trying to get you guys to realize how easy this is so we don't have half or more of the community unnecessarily avoiding this fractal. It's actually funkin up LFG formations lately, and it bugs me.

Here you go:

 

really good analysis, thanks for the explanation.  I question how good of a decision it is though on anets part to make all other healers not do well on it besides scourge, as well as making it very restrictive and difficult for melee.

[Nimris.3781]

19 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

OK, update for everyone on how to most easily cheese this fractal for both CM players and normal T4 players:

1. If CM players -> aheal scourge - qdps chrono - 3x cdps virt - have every mesmer bring blink - and we have nothing but ranged pressure - easy & fast
2. If T4 players -> aheal scourge - heal druid "have the druid switch ancestral grace to lingering light for the encounter" - any qdps + 2x hard dps - make sure the qdps and dps bring personal mobility skills like blinks or weapon kits with mobility like engi jump shot or ranger gs swoop - easy carry

Here is a video from earlier today when I explained to a new group in 2 minutes how to do this and they completed Lonely Tower on the first attempt. This was was also nearly full-worst case scenario. We had afflicted & outflanked. The only way it could be worse was if it also had hamstrung or toxic trail.

Btw I don't do this stuff to try and be a famous youtuber or streamer. Don't really care.

I enjoy participating in the community of the game's I like. In this particular case with GW2 fractal 100 Lonely Tower, I'm trying to get you guys to realize how easy this is so we don't have half or more of the community unnecessarily avoiding this fractal. It's actually funkin up LFG formations lately, and it bugs me.

Here you go:

 

nice try, now let me point out something. you did this while using bug. 2 mechs, scourge with pet, druid with pet... cmon... also was that double heal? the amount of barrier is insane and you still got 17 downstates.

on 36s he drops malice and no one grabs it, few seconds later he pulls malice. you can see when he spins (e.g 1:10m) how condis rapidly stack on him, despite entire party being pulled, without this fight would probably last twice as long

so yea, party tailored for survival, using bug for more dmg, 17 downstates and you barely made it. definitly well balanced fight, i am sure your setup will enjoy ~12-15min kills after they fix bugs... (or more likely wipe before kill happens)

Edited May 29 by Nimris.3781

[Hotride.2187]

Gotta love when someone has to explain to me why something is good.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:41 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

OK, update for everyone on how to most easily cheese this fractal for both CM players and normal T4 players:

1. If CM players -> aheal scourge - qdps chrono - 3x cdps virt - have every mesmer bring blink - and we have nothing but ranged pressure - easy & fast
2. If T4 players -> aheal scourge - heal druid "have the druid switch ancestral grace to lingering light for the encounter" - any qdps + 2x hard dps - make sure the qdps and dps bring personal mobility skills like blinks or weapon kits with mobility like engi jump shot or ranger gs swoop - easy carry

Here is a video from earlier today when I explained to a new group in 2 minutes how to do this and they completed Lonely Tower on the first attempt. This was was also nearly full-worst case scenario. We had afflicted & outflanked. The only way it could be worse was if it also had hamstrung or toxic trail.

Btw I don't do this stuff to try and be a famous youtuber or streamer. Don't really care.

I enjoy participating in the community of the game's I like. In this particular case with GW2 fractal 100 Lonely Tower, I'm trying to get you guys to realize how easy this is so we don't have half or more of the community unnecessarily avoiding this fractal. It's actually funkin up LFG formations lately, and it bugs me.

Here you go:

 

I don't know if this video is giving the impression you expect it to.  You're an experienced CM player using a very high sustain comp and you still went down a ton of times.  And this is you showing us how "easy" it is.

[SidewayS.3789]

Well my CM group will totally skip this fractal. This will be Cerus 2.0 when the CM mode will be like either cheesing with virt or using the bug with minion master build. This is such a kitten fractal, but then I remember the devs who worked at Nightmare/Shattered/Sunqua Peak are LONG gone from Anet.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i'm sorry but if a group who normally runs cm96-98 (old cm's) daily has trouble clearing it on normal mode, maybe its a bit overtuned? yes, you can do it by class swapping, i think that a bit much since currently class swapping is optional even for 98 and 99, and just makes it faster.

 

having a fractal where you're required to play certain classes and builds to clear it doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

we finally found a strategy that works, which means basically not doing the mechanics at all. we bring healscourge and then all the ranged dps just stack in one spot while the healer collects all the orbs, and the damage-dealing players just push some buttons in a loop from maximum range. 😞

Edited May 30 by SoftFootpaws.9134