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[Fueki.4753]

46 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Given the number of times I've seen "if you're not going to fix warrior you might as well delete it" sentiments expressed, I do have to wonder if the "we're removing warrior from the game" joke at the start was a response...

If that really is the only sentiment they take away from the forums after all these years despite all of the constructive feedback and ideas to improve Warrior, it's just sad. They ought to know that making fun of Warrior in such a way is just angering their customers more.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If that really is the only sentiment they take away from the forums after all these years despite all of the constructive feedback and ideas to improve Warrior, it's just sad. They ought to know that making fun of Warrior in such a way is just angering their customers more.

Again it is ANets communication that creates these issues. It really hasn't been there and we really do not see them acknowledge that they are aware of community perception or long standing issues. They instead make off the cuff joke comments about these things and yet we see nothing said about them outside of that until it either gets a change that basically does nothing or they crater a build/trait/skill in a balance patch with a change no one asked for. Rush got "fixed" after 11 years...took them 6 years to address Full Counter needing to stop triggering traits from simply being activated instead of hitting as well as Mirage Cloak working while CC'd and then reverting the single dodge they had.

ANet does weird things. I do not understand their process or thinking.

[Lighter.5631]

watch out for new Martial Cadence tho, may just completely destroy defense and strength and become BiS for every single build

2 second of on-demand(key word, something warrior never get) quickness every 5 seconds, pseudo quickness on weapon swap with extra steps.

also generates 3 might every 5 seconds, adding soldier's comfort, 3 seconds of protection and 1k healing every 5seconds. 

and you can just take any master trait. may basically destroy defense line,

funny enough soldier's comfort is also a heal on burst skill, just like defense line adrenal heal

 

also, with how many on-burst traits we get, no wonder spellbreaker will be forever the best warrior pvp spec, because it has 2 burst skills(technically 3 for reset) and requires the least adrenaline. while other one get one burst skill and struggling hard for adrenaline to form any build at all.

Edited May 25 by Lighter.5631

[Aaron.1294]

@Lighter.5631 spellbreaker is the best spec only because Full counter actually does something meaningfull instead of "just damage" ...

and tactics won't ever replace defence weakness application, condi clear, stability and resistance 😞

[Lighter.5631]

51 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lighter.5631 spellbreaker is the best spec only because Full counter actually does something meaningfull instead of "just damage" ...

and tactics won't ever replace defence weakness application, condi clear, stability and resistance 😞

nah, it's more than full counter, if any of the core/berserker get double burst proc, doesnt even need to be full counter, it would be so much stronger than it is now, 

i can proc cleansing ire, back to back to back 4 times so never get chain condi bombed to death, or even chain 10 seconds of burst precision and get perma swiftness with burst mastery,

and the endurance you gain from building momentum is also quadrupled. because none of these traits have ICD.

if berserk would count as a burst skill like before, imagine how much more fun and smooth and better it would be. having multiple burst skill will forever uses benefit more from the traits than single burst skill specs, given how they shifting tons of traits to heavily rely on burst skills

 

as for defense, what stability, nobody cares, only relevant GM is cleansing ire, and the only relevant master is resilient roll and all the minor traits, the rest don't matter, adept is w/e fancies you. if the new martial out heals, out sustain defense, than it's a wrap. given superior protection/heal uptime, and on demand quickness that decreases warrior's burst time window to take less damage. the only uncertainty right now is the adrenaline supply/condition management  from defense..which is kind of a big deal for warrior, i'm counting to see if quickness will help with this.

 

but it will be almost guranteed to be better than strength line, quickness on burst is just a way better access than CC when ICD removed..and pretty sure tactic will out heal strength MMR and both having no adrenaline generation..

also paired with guard counter, you basically get perma protection at this point, but meh...immob still stronger, best defense is offense.

Edited May 25 by Lighter.5631

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

So, just some maintenance, slight tweaks and such. I didn't expect much anyways.

Quote

Martial Cadence: This trait now also recharges Soldier's Focus when you swap weapons and causes Soldier's Focus to remove a condition from nearby allies. Reduced the quickness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in WvW.

This is the biggest change it seems. It does not make me want to go straight into GW2 and check it out.

On 5/24/2024 at 2:46 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Shrug It Off: This trait now triggers when using a healing skill instead of when having a number of conditions on you. Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 3 in PvE only.

This seems like the second biggest change. Just another meh change IMO. Warrior fun neither increases nor decreases.

 

All and all, a pretty unexciting round of tweaks. I'm sure there are some enjoying the focus on support warrior. I wish they added something a bit more fun for everyone else not playing support.

Edited May 25 by Verdict is Vengence.6912

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

I don't really understand why some people are saying these are nerfs?

Literally the only reductions are for PvP/WvW by 1s on boons, and even then the changes to Martial Cadence are massive enough to make it negligible, and the CD reduction on Featherfoot Grade is "okay" because the skill itself is "okay" compared to other options.

Everything else is a definite upgrade, with it being cast time reductions, duration increases, stack increases, and now healing on auto-attack with Staff rather than Regen being a big win (the regen is pretty much capped anyways)

Quote

 

The warrior buffs were a nerf in disguise, and power berserker continues to languish.

Using your heal skill to get resistance doesn't matter in most scenarios. Most warriors take mending to begin with in competitive modes, and resistance is needed for split second reaction to people dropping blind or weakness on you. channeling a heal to clear it is backwards. Resistance needs to be delivered on something we can activate instantly (this is how berserker stance is designed, for instance) so we can react to random blind/weakness guttering our damage. Once we're considering using a heal, damage assurance is not important at that time. 

Shrug It Off, same thing. Most warriors in pvp/wvw take mending (or, more recently, defiant stance). Shrug it Off proccing on a channeled heal makes it more controllable, sure; but having to channel a heal essentially thanoses the usability of the stunbreak portion of the skill. 

 

 

[Aaron.1294]

@Lighter.5631but strength also has access to endurance generation from might, unlike tactics

w/o any good ways to mitigate upfront damage, and well 0 damage increase except meaningless might generation (6 might stacks at best) it's not worth.

And stability is still used on hammer/dagger shield, and it can be swapped if warrior is against mainly power specs, it's not irrelevant wtf

 

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lighter.5631 spellbreaker is the best spec only because Full counter actually does something meaningfull instead of "just damage" ...

and tactics won't ever replace defence weakness application, condi clear, stability and resistance 😞

In my experience, defence stability is a bit of a 'win more' trait. If you're already knocking the enemy around like a hockey ball, it makes it harder for the enemy to stop you... but it won't help you if the enemy lands their CC first. And warrior is a melee profession. Not saying it's bad, but it's not indispensable.

5 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Buffs that aren't buffing what you want them to aren't nerfs in disguise, they're just buffs that fail to address the core problems. At worst they're meaningless buffs, and at best they might make a difference to some builds.

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

They instead make off the cuff joke comments

These are no longer mere jokes.

At least I do not consider them as such.

9 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

took them 6 years to address Full Counter needing to stop triggering traits from simply being activated instead of hitting

And I think that all Burst traits ought to trigger from activating Bursts, not Bursts hitting the enemy.

Bursts already have enough draw backs with little benefit.

Edited May 26 by Fueki.4753

[StraightPath.3972]

I'm not gonna complain.. too much.  A lot of these changes are pretty neat.

BANNERS

Good direction. Reactive banners need faster cast times and extra stab stacks on Tactics one
solidify it's value as a serious support utility.

However Battle Standard needs more. And by more I mean pulsing stab.
Battle Standard is picked mostly for it's ability to both stomp enemies and ress allies.
But half of that power is lost in PvE (nothing to stomp), so in this mode it needs something else to compensate.

STANCES:

Stance cooldown reductions look savage especially on Enduring Pain.
Frenzy is finally looking appealing with 20s cd.
Adrenaline Stance however is still borderline useless and needs a rework.

 

SIGNETS:

Signet of Stamina gets instant cast - nice.
Now if we can just make another instant cast signet (Signet of Fury) stop interrupting our channels...

TACTICS TRAITS:

Lovely. Resetting Soldier's Focus on weapon swap looks very tasty, even for non Discipline warriors.
And I won't scoff at extra condi cleanse being included in the package.

Heightened Focus is my go to Discipline grandmaster on my pvp support warr, glad to see it gettting
even more support functionality.


 

Edited May 26 by StraightPath.3972

[Leo G.4501]

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

BANNERS

Good direction. Reactive banners need faster cast times and extra stab stacks on Tactics one
solidify it's value as a serious support utility.

However Battle Standard needs more. And by more I mean pulsing stab.
Battle Standard is picked mostly for it's ability to both stomp enemies and ress allies.
But half of that power is lost in PvE (nothing to stomp), so in this mode it needs something else to compensate.

 

It's kind of hilarious where we've come with banners. They used to be more of a planned/maintained support presence that you have to position/reposition for max effectiveness.  Now they're just reactive AoEs you drop on yourself for a burst of boons.  Sure, they're stronger now, but they're only a fart's length away from being a Shout or a Stance.  But don't listen to me, just venting as I watch the devs make skills 'better' after having screwed them up over and over again and then deviate toward the safest and simplest route after sandbagging for years.

[Fueki.4753]

16 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said:

It's kind of hilarious where we've come with banners. They used to be more of a planned/maintained support presence that you have to position/reposition for max effectiveness.  Now they're just reactive AoEs you drop on yourself for a burst of boons.  Sure, they're stronger now, but they're only a fart's length away from being a Shout or a Stance.  But don't listen to me, just venting as I watch the devs make skills 'better' after having screwed them up over and over again and then deviate toward the safest and simplest route after sandbagging for years.

Don't forget that they started out as equipable bundles to stab enemies with.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Buffs that aren't buffing what you want them to aren't nerfs in disguise, they're just buffs that fail to address the core problems. At worst they're meaningless buffs, and at best they might make a difference to some builds.

The buffs are making the overall functionality of a few traits weaker.

Shrug it off now no longer breaks stun because you have to channel a heal to use it. Restorative strength is losing 60% of its might for a boon that needs a heal to channel. 

Edited May 26 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The buffs are making the overall functionality of a few traits weaker.

Shrug it off now no longer breaks stun because you have to channel a heal to use it. Restorative strength is losing 60% of its might for a boon that needs a heal to channel. 

Shrug it off is a continuation of the trend to removing passive activation traits. It's a nerf, not even a disguised one, but it was one that was almost guaranteed to happen the moment they took a close look at warrior traits and realised it still existed.

Restorative is... trading might for resistance. That doesn't feel like it's a nerf to me, especially considering that it's unlikely to ever be the primary source of might on a warrior. If the resistance triggers before the heal it would also be a counter to poison right when you most need it.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

12 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Shrug it off is a continuation of the trend to removing passive activation traits. It's a nerf, not even a disguised one, but it was one that was almost guaranteed to happen the moment they took a close look at warrior traits and realised it still existed.

Restorative is... trading might for resistance. That doesn't feel like it's a nerf to me, especially considering that it's unlikely to ever be the primary source of might on a warrior. If the resistance triggers before the heal it would also be a counter to poison right when you most need it.

They should leave the might stacks on Restorative... It's still not that strong.

Unfortunately, resistance only applies to non damaging conditions (i.e., not poison), so it won't protect the heal skill from poison's effects even if the Resistance is immediate. Good thought though. Would actually be kinda cool if Restorative cured poison in addition to its other effects; that would be neat niche for the trait.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

On 5/26/2024 at 1:59 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

These are no longer mere jokes.

At least I do not consider them as such.

And I think that all Burst traits ought to trigger from activating Bursts, not Bursts hitting the enemy.

Bursts already have enough draw backs with little benefit.

On that last part it was not so much disagreeing with that, it was more that Full Counter functioning as it did before they changed it made it such an outlier that it was the thing creating the problems with Spellbreaker sustain all those years ago. Yet they nerfed everything else on Warrior thereby crippling other builds whereas they needed to simply change FC working that way. Its the same with Longbow Burst triggering those traits simply from the AoE field impact.

They are outliers from the norm with how they had every other burst skill work that created the problems that ANet tried to "resolve" by crippling and gutting other traits, skills and weapons.

The over arching issues with Warrior are an entirely different discussion altogether and it boils down to the entirety of the profession mechanic being based on a highly outdated philosophy as well as this mechanic leading to Warrior being the most back loaded damage in the game which creates problems when every other class is front loaded. Meaning every other class can open a fight with big hits, Warrior physically cannot due to Adrenaline.

[Lighter.5631]

On 5/25/2024 at 6:32 PM, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lighter.5631but strength also has access to endurance generation from might, unlike tactics

w/o any good ways to mitigate upfront damage, and well 0 damage increase except meaningless might generation (6 might stacks at best) it's not worth.

And stability is still used on hammer/dagger shield, and it can be swapped if warrior is against mainly power specs, it's not irrelevant wtf

 

it's pretty kitten now as have no resistance you hardly hit burst with everybody just ranging in this meta, even you hit burst, as long as you are dodging you are not doing damage in the current meta, you just spam dodge and you explode after

super high protection uptime is better as in, you can counter pressure enemy while taking less damage.

that's why people take defense over strength in the first place, current meta, counter pressure is king. if you can't counter pressure, dodges don't matter. rev dodges matter because it does 5x warrior dodge damage with bigger aoe and easier aim and any other dodge skill that also does damage.

 

also i missed a huge part "causes Soldier's Focus to remove a condition from nearby allies"

this is huge, the only concern is still adrenaline from cleansing ire..warrior nearly doesn't gain enough adrenaline for how fast pace hit and run bursty the current meta is..i tried strength spb, and felt a significantly nerfed due to lack of adrenaline even tho spb already require less adrenaline and has built in minor adrenaline trait AND has discipline..yet still lacks adrenaline due to no cleansing ire

also what bothers me  is now they making martial the full support trait with heal, boon, condi cleanse all in one, so whats the point of shoutheal and PS now

Edited May 28 by Lighter.5631

[Hotride.2187]

MMR buff and featherfoot grace on 25 sec CD oooooooooh boooooooy, str spb is still gonna be crap but it got BUFFED!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I still stand by Phalanx Strength copying all boons you apply to yourself to other allies in the area. That would be worthy of its slot. Now that we have a heal weapon, there is not as much need for VS to heal anymore. Vigorous Shouts could be replaced with another trait that upgrades shouts. Those kinds of changes would compete with the buffs to Martial Cadence.