jul.7602 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 https://gw2mists.com/matches/eu This is honestly the worst KDR disparity I've seen since that metric has been tracked. Almost every single tier is a blowout. Might need to go back to the drawing board on how we're forming these teams. Probably also need to get rid of the 6th tier because it makes it impossible to balance as well. 10 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviel.7493 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 It's interesting that the top KDR team only leads in VP in half the matches. Same story on NA--lead KDR isn't well correlated with VP. Seems like this may be less about overwhelming numbers and more about player behavior. If we have smaller total teams and a large portion of the team is dedicated to only chasing fights, then it follows that they may have a high KDR while being generally ineffective on the whole. I don't think this is an issue--or at least, not the issue that WR was meant to solve. 6 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Don't worry guys the scoring changes coming up will totally make you feel good about getting steamrolled in wvw. 2 12 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senftube.6081 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Don't worry because getting farmed and chased by 60+ Boonballspammer when you are alone is super fun and that is why you should play this mode. LOGIN now and enjoy that. An extra spicey dip you get in Tier 6 EU on Blue Side or Green side. Be everytime outnumbered and fight against 3 Red handholding Guilds on each map. You do not even have to fight. You can simply stand there and getting farmed because that is the only thing you can do. You do not even have to build any Sieges (and you also have not even enough peoples to build them either) because they can't do anything against the Red Swarm. LOGIN NOW! It is super awesome and IT IS WHY WE PLAY THIS MODE. THAT IS THE WAY how you spend your time and playing this "get farmed" Mode. Helldivers 2? WHO NEEDs that when you can have Starship troopers vibes in Gw 2! Edited June 17 by senftube.6081 14 1 5 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakob.7210 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 now you can safe all your tactics . useless anyway . colorchanging is so fast . tactics why if enemy turns colors so fast . and for what . no more serverpride . only foreign ppl . you are lost in anetspace .. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atoclone.4810 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Our small guild was having a blast on frost citadel on Sunday. Most of us were from different servers so playing together was great. Sorry for being positive about this. 10 5 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) We have "high" k/d. Some map we win fights, other maps we run away. Edited June 17 by Junkpile.7439 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sviel.7493 said: Seems like this may be less about overwhelming numbers and more about player behavior. If we have smaller total teams and a large portion of the team is dedicated to only chasing fights, then it follows that they may have a high KDR while being generally ineffective on the whole. I don't think this is an issue--or at least, not the issue that WR was meant to solve. This. WR was never meant to solve k/d disparities and said player behaviour is fostered by the "balance" direction that anet has been pushing for a while now, so it it is expected to get worse. If you don't want to feed kills to a blob - just don't. There is usually only one farm blob per map at most and maps are large ... Edited June 17 by Zyreva.1078 4 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIceman.1039 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 hours ago, jul.7602 said: https://gw2mists.com/matches/eu This is honestly the worst KDR disparity I've seen since that metric has been tracked. Almost every single tier is a blowout. Might need to go back to the drawing board on how we're forming these teams. Probably also need to get rid of the 6th tier because it makes it impossible to balance as well. A clear example of why tiers must be built on the basis of kdr and not ppt. Anet could provide an opportunity for skilled players to battle each other. And if they get tired of tier 1 then they can scatter down but not with the whole alliance. What surprises you? This is also common in NA. Only the last month has been a little better. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 5 minutes ago, TheIceman.1039 said: A clear example of why tiers must be built on the basis of kdr and not ppt. Anet could provide an opportunity for skilled players to battle each other. And if they get tired of tier 1 then they can scatter down but not with the whole alliance. What surprises you? This is also common in NA. Only the last month has been a little better. Good K/D ratio =/= skilled players. Also the rate varies heavily depending on the matchup and a world that might dominate now might get farmed next week. Fighting each other is the last thing these players want. 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIceman.1039 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, jakob.7210 said: now you can safe all your tactics . useless anyway . colorchanging is so fast . tactics why if enemy turns colors so fast . and for what . no more serverpride . only foreign ppl . you are lost in anetspace .. I agree with you that Anet has gone too far and taken away all motivation to try to protect something selflessly. This can also be seen, most don't bother anymore because there are no bonuses given to defenders in the meantime. Some recent changes must have come from whiny blobmanders who lacked the skills to get inside the object. 8 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud.6829 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 7 hours ago, Sviel.7493 said: t's interesting that the top KDR team only leads in VP in half the matches. you need points to flip if you want to rack up those VP. No opponents means no flipping. they've killed WvW 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disForm.2837 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said: Good K/D ratio =/= skilled players. Also the rate varies heavily depending on the matchup and a world that might dominate now might get farmed next week. Fighting each other is the last thing these players want. From where do you think K/D ratio comes from? Certainly not roamers, as good as they can be, they kill very few players, all things considered. It comes down to Zerg vs Zerg, either boonball or cloud. Avoiding unwinnable fights is certainly a skill. Attacking SMC with 35 against a map queue is suicidal, smart players simply avoid feeding like that. So yes, skill is what makes squads prevail over other squads. Better comp, better commander, better individual players. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urd.8306 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 In my experience the high KDR on EU are those map blobs that attack tier 3 structures vs. unorganized defenders. Those defenders that you can tell 100 times that running into the lords room into an organized blob will get them nothing and that the blob isn't there for capping but farming kills. But it's fun to see that those blobs are mainly 5k-10k WvW ranks that never wanted a challenge and that don't know how to handle small groups that take their stuff on other maps. 7 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 45 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said: From where do you think K/D ratio comes from? Certainly not roamers, as good as they can be, they kill very few players, all things considered. It comes down to Zerg vs Zerg, either boonball or cloud. Avoiding unwinnable fights is certainly a skill. Attacking SMC with 35 against a map queue is suicidal, smart players simply avoid feeding like that. So yes, skill is what makes squads prevail over other squads. Better comp, better commander, better individual players. Unwinnable fights =/= risky fights. Numbers + comp + enemy feeding =/= skill. The best players usually aren't scared of taking risky fights, because only if you challenge yourself, you can get better. The worlds with the best k/d tend to have a lot of monoblobs and cowards and are just farming, not actually fighting anyone that can pose a threat (and no, it's not neccessarily because they all are so much better than anyone else, usually just a couple of decent players + numbers vs complete noobs and/or outnumbered players that keep feeding). Edited June 17 by Zyreva.1078 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingDawn.5796 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Gonna have to see, if they pair pretty stacked, but not full alliance guilds in under 6 weeks (sadly) together, to properly judge things. Cause it happened, during the last beta too. I can't be bothered to play on main as it is, when ettins had ppl just sitting waiting around sm, during the weekend with a cloud and chatmanders, waiting to farm kills, at least they don't have, completely everyone from that stacked full world, from the previous system. Also whether we get another, 4 weeks after that, with six tiers in the EU, we'll have to wait and see. Edited June 17 by RisingDawn.5796 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disForm.2837 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 12 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said: Unwinnable fights =/= risky fights. Numbers + comp + enemy feeding =/= skill. The best players usually aren't scared of taking risky fights, because only if you challenge yourself, you can get better. The worlds with the best k/d tend to have a lot of monoblobs and cowards and are just farming, not actually fighting anyone that can pose a threat (and no, it's not neccessarily because they all are so much better than anyone else, usually just a couple of decent players + numbers vs complete noobs and/or outnumbered players that keep feeding). If you have been playing WvW for a while, you know how unwinnable fights looks like. Numbers, your own team comp, enemy tags, logs. It doesn't take much to split risky vs unwinnable. Risky you lose 60%, that's ok, unwinnable is 95%, that's silly. I am playing in the most unbalanced matchup in NA right now. They are running not only numbers, but comped squads all day long. Even with similar numbers, we lose, because current meta is unbeatable by pugs. I know, because we run a similar comp in my guild. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 19 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said: If you have been playing WvW for a while, you know how unwinnable fights looks like. Numbers, your own team comp, enemy tags, logs. It doesn't take much to split risky vs unwinnable. Risky you lose 60%, that's ok, unwinnable is 95%, that's silly. I am playing in the most unbalanced matchup in NA right now. They are running not only numbers, but comped squads all day long. Even with similar numbers, we lose, because current meta is unbeatable by pugs. I know, because we run a similar comp in my guild. I don't disagree with anything you say here. My point is that the k/d ratio is determinded by many factors, not just player skill, so the k/d rate isn't a measurement of skill (this applies to both world k/d and player k/d). 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disForm.2837 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 11 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said: I don't disagree with anything you say here. My point is that the k/d ratio is determinded by many factors, not just player skill, so the k/d rate isn't a measurement of skill (this applies to both world k/d and player k/d). And we agree, there's a myriad of factors that influence K/D where skill is irrelevant. Numerical advantage, squads only taking "sure thing" fights and running from everything else. Constantly feeding against a set up enemy in structures, etc. But saying skill is not involved, like someone in the thread said, it's also incorrect. With similar numbers, more skilled squads tends to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviel.7493 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 hours ago, Gud.6829 said: you need points to flip if you want to rack up those VP. No opponents means no flipping. they've killed WvW VP comes from winning skirmishes. You win skirmishes by holding territory and getting stomps. If you're getting way more kills but losing skirmishes, the kills are likely coming from blobbing (where stomps are very rare) and you're also probably down on territory. If your opponents just let you hold all the territory and you're up in KDA, it's basically impossible to be down in VP because you're going to win skirmishes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud.6829 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Sviel.7493 said: VP comes from winning skirmishes. uh huh... guess they COULD be getting kills by farming respawns though? Considering the general quality of MM now, what do you think is happening? the point is the KD isn't necessarily showing you what you think it is Edited June 17 by Gud.6829 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Though are not blow outs for k/d do you mean the points over all (i cant seem to find it on that web page.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) What a red herring. Play hour disparities between teams could be down to their lowest in years and yet now WR is supposed to solve player skill and playstyle issues? On the first weekend of the first match even when teams haven't yet "settled" in their ratings! Yea, the red team on T6 in EU seems like an outlier, but I didn't arrive at that point from KDR. Edited June 17 by Chaba.5410 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascii.1369 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 12 hours ago, jul.7602 said: This is honestly the worst KDR disparity I've seen since that metric has been tracked. Almost every single tier is a blowout. Maybe stop looking at an irrelevant metric like KDR and instead look at VP, since that's what WR is balancing for. The only notably uneven matchup on EU is T6. And that's in the first week, if we wait for teams to move up and down the ladder it will become even more balanced. 4 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhitey.9076 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 It is too early to measure KDR as I have seen bigger blow outs in the old system this early. Will need to wait until the end of the week when it levels out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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