How would you even explain the LW monetisation scheme to new player without instantly scaring them away?

[Zychuu.7294]

I'm trying to get a friend of mine as a new player into the game, but due to the fact how scammy LW is constructed, I truly don't know how to do it in good faith. They are enjoying the story so far, leveled up without lv80 boost, finished personal story and progressing through season 1. It sounds ridiculously bad when you say it out loud:

"Yeah you got these expansions you paid for because this big flashy button was pestering you about it from day 1, but actually there are these things called living world seasons. One of these at least has some nice maps, but one of them doesn't really provide anything apart from a series of story cutscenes you probably would prefer to know in order to continue your story. So yeah, you have to pay for two DLCs in between the DLCs you already paid for".

No matter the actual state of thigs and how we get here and the value of the particular seasons this just sounds like some ridiculous scam asking you for more and more money every couple of story steps. Especially with season 2 where it is truly just story with no maps included. I want them to get into the game and continue with the story, but from outside new player perspective this sounds like some paradox/sims monetization where everything is cut into a separate microtransaction. New players have nowhere enough gold to spend couple hundreds on seasons, and if you put it together how much you would actually have to spend to get "everything" even just HoT+PoF related the price is much more than frontpage pricing of expansions.

 

How do you even get new people to play this game and enjoy it's long story without getting discouraged by this cash-grab monetisation scheme?

Edited June 22 by Zychuu.7294

[Cyninja.2954]

Wait for a sale of the complete collection, have them buy everything for half price. Done.

[Zychuu.7294]

4 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Wait for a sale of the complete collection, have them buy everything for half price. Done.

The existence of some seasonal 20-30% sale doesn't solve the problem of segmenting the game into rising number of hardly transparent for new players microtrasactions I'm trying to describe here.

[Farohna.6247]

Most games have DLC, it's no different.   Wait for a sale.  

[Zera.9435]

24 minutes ago, Zychuu.7294 said:

I'm trying to get a friend of mine as a new player into the game, but due to the fact how scammy LW is constructed, I truly don't know how to do it in good faith. They are enjoying the story so far, leveled up without lv80 boost, finished personal story and progressing through season 1. It sounds ridiculously bad when you say it out loud:

"Yeah you got these expansions you paid for because this big flashy button was pestering you about it from day 1, but actually there are not one but TWO of these things called living world seasons. One of these at least has some nice maps, but one of them doesn't really provide anything apart from a series of story cutscenes you probably would prefer to know in order to continue your story. So yeah, you have to pay for two DLCs in between the DLCs you already paid for. And remember that there is one of these also between two expansions you alredy have too".

No matter the actual state of thigs and how we get here and the value of the particular seasons this just sounds like some ridiculous scam asking you for more and more money every couple of story steps. Especially with season 2 where it is truly just story with no maps included. I want them to get into the game and continue with the story, but from outside new player perspective this sounds like some paradox/sims monetization where everything is cut into a separate microtransaction. New players have nowhere enough gold to spend couple hundreds on seasons, and if you put it together how much you would actually have to spend to get "everything" even just HoT+PoF related the price is much more than frontpage pricing of expansions.

 

How do you even get new people to play this game and enjoy it's long story without getting discouraged by this cash-grab monetisation scheme?

The pricing for that DLC content is fair. It's not like you're paying the price of a full game for it. The price can get as low as 768 gems, which is less than $10. Hell, people spend more on gems for cosmetic purposes than they do the DLC. Why are you against financially supporting a game you enjoy?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

As a Vet, give your friend the Gold necessary to purchase Living World Season(s) from the Gem Store.  They go on discount periodically.

If you suggested they purchase expansions, why did you not suggest purchasing 'Elder Dragon Saga - Complete Collection'?  That includes all Living World Seasons.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

You could also give them the full context instead of just focusing on the consequences of being a latecomer to the game, i.e. tell them how Living World seasons actually work from release to now. You might also remind them that GW2 is a game without subscription, so the gemstore (including Living World seasons) is their main source of revenue to create new content, or that they've already offered all these episodes for free for at least 3 months each, and then for a second time later on. If this was meant to be a cash grab it would never have been free in the first place, let alone twice.

[Danikat.8537]

"The Living World is just their name for DLC packs". That's literally what I've said to people who asked me what it is and why it costs extra. As far as I know no one had a problem with that answer.

If they want more info I'd tell them it's optional and the can play whatever they've already got without it, but the story is all connected so if they want to understand everything that's going on they will need to buy the DLC. I'd also point out that they can buy entire seasons at a 20% discount in the gem store rather than paying full price for individual episodes, and it often goes on sale making it even cheaper, and remind them they can convert gold to gems if they don't want to spend real money, or use a mix of both. (This time of year I'd also point out there's likely to be a sale in August for the game's anniversary.)

If someone doesn't already have a paid copy of GW2 and is likely to want the LW in addition to expansions I'd recommend the Elder Dragon Saga Complete Collection. It's expensive but I've known some people who really liked the option to get the first 10 years of releases all in one go. If they've already got one or more expansions I'd help them figure out the least expensive/annoying way to get all the bits they want.

[Bladestrom.6425]

11 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

You could also give them the full context instead of just focusing on the consequences of being a latecomer to the game, i.e. tell them how Living World seasons actually work from release to now. You might also remind them that GW2 is a game without subscription, so the gemstore (including Living World seasons) is their main source of revenue to create new content, or that they've already offered all these episodes for free for at least 3 months each, and then for a second time later on. If this was meant to be a cash grab it would never have been free in the first place, let alone twice.

And to add you could refer them to other AAA MMORPG for example ESO and point out you would otherwise pay $140 a year for a sub and $40 for expansions that contains 1 map.

[Danikat.8537]

Just now, Bladestrom.6425 said:

And to add you could refer them to other AAA MMORPG for example ESO and point out you would otherwise pay $140 a year for a sub and $40 for expansions that contains 1 map.

For non-subscribers Elder Scrolls Online works pretty much the same as GW2 - there's annual expansions but also paid DLC released in between and it's up to you which ones you buy.

I think most games have at least some DLC now, I think the Living World only throws people off because of the name.

[Bladestrom.6425]

10 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

For non-subscribers Elder Scrolls Online works pretty much the same as GW2 - there's annual expansions but also paid DLC released in between and it's up to you which ones you buy.

I think most games have at least some DLC now, I think the Living World only throws people off because of the name.

yeah DLC are similar on both, but there is a massive difference elsewhere:

given a player has bought base game:

- In ESO Expansions cost double and are roughly half size of GW2 (which is very very greedy considering ESO has a big player base with subs)

- In ESO if you don't pay $140 a year you get restricted housing, storage, dyes all if which are at a level where it severely effects gameplay in those areas.

 

 

 

Edited June 22 by Bladestrom.6425

[Ashen.2907]

There is additional content available for purchase. None of it is mandatory but a completionist will find value in buying everything. Some individual purchases are more impactful than others. 

Not that hard to explain really.

[Zebulous.2934]

I was simply present each time a LW season dropped.  I haven't had to pay anything for them.

I cannot justify the prices of LW chapters.

Why should I have them free because I happened to be playing at the time they were released?  

Sure I payed full price for the base game and for each full expansion as they released.  The newer players get the base game for free, and discounts on expansions?  Well if they have to pay for LW then it isn't such a discount.  Sure, sure it's all optional, I could still be stuck in central Tyria without mounts or gliding.  The full expansions are optional too.  That isn't the point. 

You don't invite people in and then charge them to hang their coat on the coat hook.  At first they won't vist when it's cold out. Later they just won't bother to visit at all.

 

Edited June 22 by Zebulous.2934

[Bladestrom.6425]

36 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I was simply present each time a LW season dropped.  I haven't had to pay anything for them.

I cannot justify the prices of LW chapters.

Why should I have them free because I happened to be playing at the time they were released?  

Sure I payed full price for the base game and for each full expansion as they released.  The newer players get the base game for free, and discounts on expansions?  Well if they have to pay for LW then it isn't such a discount.  Sure, sure it's all optional, I could still be stuck in central Tyria without mounts or gliding.  The full expansions are optional too.  That isn't the point. 

You don't invite people in and then charge them to hang their coat on the coat hook.  At first they won't vist when it's cold out. Later they just won't bother to visit at all.

 

you know you can always find a problem if you look hard enough and ignore enough context.

Take a step back and stop looking over the fence at others. GW2 is the cheapest AAA MMORPG with the largest amount of content per penny paid in the entire market, THAT is what is on offer to new players.  

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I was simply present each time a LW season dropped.  I haven't had to pay anything for them.

I cannot justify the prices of LW chapters.

Why should I have them free because I happened to be playing at the time they were released?  

Sure I payed full price for the base game and for each full expansion as they released.  The newer players get the base game for free, and discounts on expansions?  Well if they have to pay for LW then it isn't such a discount.  Sure, sure it's all optional, I could still be stuck in central Tyria without mounts or gliding.  The full expansions are optional too.  That isn't the point. 

You don't invite people in and then charge them to hang their coat on the coat hook.  At first they won't vist when it's cold out. Later they just won't bother to visit at all.

 

So, you paid 60 + 50 + 30 + 30 = 170 for all 4 expansions and all Living World Seasons free.

ArenaNet offers a bundle with all 4 expansion and all Living World Seasons for 100. 

Which is the better deal?

[Zebulous.2934]

40 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

 

Take a step back and stop looking over the fence at others. GW2 is the cheapest AAA MMORPG with the largest amount of content per penny paid in the entire market, THAT is what is on offer to new players.  

"Stop looking at others," and then you immediately compare Gw2 pricing to the other mmorpgs.  
I gave my own account of what I experienced.  What were you trying to say?

[Zebulous.2934]

6 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

So, you paid 60 + 50 + 30 + 30 = 170 for all 4 expansions and all Living World Seasons free.

ArenaNet offers a bundle with all 4 expansion and all Living World Seasons for 100. 

Which is the better deal?

One can be better without being good.  A better bad is still bad. 
Monetizing the LW doesn't make sense to me.  The cosmetics and quality of life features are the monetization points. People buy the cosmetics because they like the game.  They like the game because they like the story and the gameplay.  If they are going to charge players for the story then the writing needs to be a good deal better than it has been.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

"Discountinoued content inbetween DLC system that you don't have to buy immediately and you can buy it without spending actual money"

If it was a cash grab it wouldn't have been going on for so long and it wouldn't cost in game currency instead of real money.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, the expansions' story is not part of the monetization? Not part of the reason players purchase expansions?

Edited June 22 by Inculpatus cedo.9234
typo/grammar

[Zebulous.2934]

The expansions grant game mechanics.  LWS4 mechanics just add problems and then add mastery requirements to solve those same problems.  Raven mastery in order to no freeze to death, enemies with shields that can be broken by collecting essence from other enemies.

Game mechanics from expansions vs. story beats with fake difficulty game mechanics.

[Bladestrom.6425]

28 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

"Stop looking at others," and then you immediately compare Gw2 pricing to the other mmorpgs.  
I gave my own account of what I experienced.  What were you trying to say?

Gads at low comprehension.  Pricing is objective and quantifiable and not subjective.  Your 'experience' does not skew the reality of the cost.

[Gop.8713]

Twenty replies and like two of them actually trying to address OP's question ; p

Happily those two did a pretty good job of answering it: It's a huge game that's been around for a long time with a lot of content added since release. You can either buy it complete at a discount or piecemeal as you go along. Nothing particularly scammy about that . . .

I would also point out to them that gw2 has effectively entered a subscription era tho, but at thirty bucks a year and no effect on the existing game whether you choose to subscribe or not I still don't think most ppls would consider that particularly scammy . . .

If their primary concern is being confused about the story I'd point out that there are plenty of ways to catch up on the story without actually playing the game, and that even if they buy the complete set it's unlikely they'll actually play through chronologically with no spoilers, since they'll likely want to engage with some content in later releases sooner than that . . .

Edited June 22 by Gop.8713
affect/effect. So embarrassing : (

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Zychuu.7294 said:

The existence of some seasonal 20-30% sale doesn't solve the problem of segmenting the game into rising number of hardly transparent for new players microtrasactions I'm trying to describe here.

The full package is 100 Euro and often on sale for 50% off. I believe it was on sale 3 times this year alreqdy and will likely go on sale again foe winter or autum sales.

If you want to maximize cost efficiency have your friend purchase the most recent mini expansion and play that until the legacy content goes on sale.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

5 hours ago, Zychuu.7294 said:

How do you even get new people to play this game and enjoy it's long story without getting discouraged by this cash-grab monetisation scheme?

They should include the seasons in the expansions already, there's honestly no good way of telling them "buy 5 expansions plus a bunch of premium currency to unlock the story between expansions."

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 minute ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

They should include the seasons in the expansions already, there's honestly no good way of telling them "buy 5 expansions plus a bunch of premium currency to unlock the story between expansions."

Which means increasing the price, which ofc is unfair on those that already have the seasons.  I think a possible better approach is have a clear section in the gem shop for the seasons and add a summary on the tab on what they are and how the relate to the game.