Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Guardian

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Please make guardian spear skill one throwable like the warriors.

Pretty please.

 

Also, can you make it possible the option to be one handed aswell as, so we can use shield or other off-hand weapons?

 

[Cameirus.8407]

Anet lied.

Said loot stick was returning, made big deal of it.

then gave us lame 3 target attack.....feel betrayed.

Also, the lame cone, is really narrow and nowhere near the previous arc lootstick had. Just feels really bad.

Give 5 target lootstick.

Edited Thursday at 10:30 PM by Cameirus.8407

[HotDelirium.7984]

That auto attack animation is SO wierd looking when you move cause it looks like it triggers from a point in space when the auto is commenced and not when it lands making that cone happen behind or to the side of you when moving. Optimize that?

Like other MMO's they have their damage aoe be similar to the effect so instead of having generic yellow aoes why not make them thematic as well? I think you did this with specter previously?

[Exemplar.1479]

Spear 5
• Issue: Grants Resistance Boon if allies within the radius do NOT currently the Boon. Design is incongruous with all other Guardian Symbols.
• Suggestion: Make it pulse Resistance for the Symbol's duration, as every other Guardian Symbol does.

Will edit as I test more.

[PogO.5289]

 

• Illuminated skills also feel weak, especially spear 4. I get extra fragments but I can only hit 3 per target anyways?
• Helio Rush is super janky and feels bad to use, sorta like WB f2
• Gleaming Disc is alright, maybe needs some more damage
• The lack of strong illuminated skills and relatively weak symbol doesn't really justify the 20s cd imo
• Animations and artwork are really nice

Overall, it looks cool, but I don't see it being used in PvE without some more damage. Would be really disappointed if this was "WvW only"

[Batalix.2873]

9 hours ago, quaniesan.8497 said:

Spear 1:   unimaginative. The cone will miss melee range target if you face slight off .  "it's auto, whatever".  Trading some dps for healing is usually a flop. Either you are ranged, or you are not.  This awkward range both place the guard in melee danger while paying dps cost of being a range weapon.

Spear 2: Too slow to be a movement skill, while extremely disruptive in combat. EXTREMELY disruptive.  Any WB would know this frustration from their F2. Guess what, now we got another one like that. Does little effects at the cost of messing up your rotation, decreasing your DPS . As a bonus, it kicks you out of your symbol.   Please use ground target like  F3 of WB.   Make him jump up to the sky and slam down or throw down the spear at the target circle. You have this animation already, do you not?   Or make a flip skill that allows teleporting the guardian back to target.

Spear 4: only 3 out of 5 hits connect to golem target.  Poor damage.  Adjust the hit circle to make all hits land and Make the landed spears to explode for additional damage please.

Spear 5:  Symbols are guardian thing, connected to many rotation and traits, and are not allowed to have long CD , period!  A symbol at recharge of 20sec is very steep, even considering its effect.  You would think guards like to have their symbol's uptime as much as possible like  sword,  GS.    "but but resistance is such a powerful boon".  Fine, take it away. I'm willing to make the trade for a different boon but at 10CD.  1s pulsing Resistance is meaningless if the guard likes to stay in symbol anyways.

All skills need to have the CDs readjust.  These are unacceptably long. 

Conclusions:   dead on arrival as it is.  

Weapons that try to be both support and dps will be hard to slot in.  They are not excelled at neither.  Honestly , whether it's  powerbuild,  adps, Qh, condi builds,  I can't imagine how spear would compete with existing options. 

 

Disagree on AA, I like that spears are being used in different shapes. Just give it more DPS on the first enemy it connects with, the cone is fine.

Also disagree on the symbol, since most of what it provides is illumination and not party buffs. I don't think you could push the cool down much shorter without trivializing the entire illumination gimmick. Not every symbol has to function the same way.

Agree with Spear 3 and 4, need some reworking. But the CDs are not the problem.

[Kuya.6495]

With further testing in pve:

1. There is no point in illuminating spear 4. You get extra hits sure, but you only get 3 hits max per target which the unilluminated version will do anyway. I'm not saying remove the extra hits mind you, I'm saying add something else to the illuminated spear 4, such as extra condi cleanse if illuminated. 

2. Spear 2 could use a buff to its healing to make it more worthwhile in using over staff in pve since it's the only heal you have on the kit while staff has two skills that heal.

3. Why does spear 5 need such a long cooldown if you are already limiting it by making the resistance not apply if allies already have it? It would be better to either get a lower cooldown or have resistance apply normally without conditions. You could make it so the illuminated version applies the resistance regardless of whether your allies already have it so you have a reason to illuminated spear 5 in pve.

I think one thing that's bothering me about spear is how it's illumination mechanic makes you either not care about it or just mindlessly spam it to get the illuminated effect whether you need it or not. Some of the other spears have more decision making involved and I wish the illuminated mechanic did that for us. For example since the guardian spear is hybrid, it would be great if illuminating made the difference whether the spear skill is focused on support or dps. For example, if spear 3 is used normally it applies its boons as usual. If illuminated it does more damage, applies a blind and a daze but no boons. Of course this would require you rework the conditions for obtaining illumination so you don't screw yourself over, so I doubt a rework like that will happen.

So with no chance of a rework, it would be nice if illuminating just increased your damage in general on all your spear skills so at least the gameplay loop becomes maintaining your illumination during gameplay as much as possible when using the spear for dps. Otherwise, as the spear works right now, illumination barely feels like a relevant mechanic and it just feels like something you do by accident.

 

Edited Friday at 03:15 AM by Kuya.6495

[quake.9023]

skill 1 doesnt fit with the rest, maybe do it single target at 600, 2 at 380, 3 at 240. increase cone to 180degrees

skill 2 should cast faster maybe add 2sec protection aoe ally

skill 5 symbol cd too long

 

[Solo.6873]

So far.. from a WvW standpoint

Spear 2 feels weird and I hate it. I would rather this be a targeted dash, leap or shadow step. 

 

[Batalix.2873]

24 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

With further testing in pve:

1. There is no point in illuminating spear 4. You get extra hits sure, but you only get 3 hits max per target which the unilluminated version will do anyway. I'm not saying remove the extra hits mind you, I'm saying add something else to the illuminated spear 4, such as extra condi cleanse if illuminated. 

2. Spear 2 could use a buff to its healing to make it more worthwhile in using over staff in pve since it's the only heal you have on the kit while staff has two skills that heal.

3. Why does spear 5 need such a long cooldown if you are already limiting it by making the resistance not apply if allies already have it? It would be better to either get a lower cooldown or have resistance apply normally without conditions. You could make it so the illuminated version applies the resistance regardless of whether your allies already have it so you have a reason to illuminated spear 5 in pve.

I think one thing that's bothering me about spear is how it's illumination mechanic makes you either not care about it or just mindlessly spam it to get the illuminated effect whether you need it or not. Some of the other spears have more decision making involved and I wish the illuminated mechanic did that for us. For example since the guardian spear is hybrid, it would be great if illuminating made the difference whether the spear skill is focused on support or dps. For example, if spear 3 is used normally it applies its boons as usual. If illuminated it does more damage, applies a blind and a daze but no boons. Of course this would require you rework the conditions for obtaining illumination so you don't screw yourself over, so I doubt a rework like that will happen.

So with no chance of a rework, it would be nice if illuminating just increased your damage in general on all your spear skills so at least the gameplay loop becomes maintaining your illumination during gameplay as much as possible when using the spear for dps. Otherwise, as the spear works right now, illumination barely feels like a relevant mechanic and it just feels like something you do by accident.

 

I see what you are saying about illumination spamming. I wonder if it would work better if only the symbol illuminated skills, but the symbol had a shorter cooldown? That seems like a more intuitive and streamlined implementation of this idea.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

After playing with this spear for a while, I like the design and intent. I love the flavor of illuminated sun/radiance on the weapon. The animations are cool but could use some polish, especially for the illuminated versions. I get the sense that this could be a good skirmishing damage-support weapon. It has a bit of everything to fulfill that design except a few critically missing components. That's the good, but it brings us to the bad.

First, the biggest problem: this weapon offers subpar damage and decent support (especially support for wvw), which might work out IF it had some self-sustain. A support build NEEDS to be able to support itself in addition to its allies. Self-healing and a defensive skill are sorely needed for me to even consider this thing over staff, mace, or even axe and scepter. All of which have better self-sustain than the spear (possibly even better ally support with the Honor traitline), and two of them are DPS weapons! How sad is that?

Second, animations are bit janky, and I'd like to see some bigger graphics intensity, especially for the illuminated versions. Speaking of illuminated versions, most of them are too weak to justify the trigger conditions. 

#1 Daybreaking Slash: A decent auto with one glaring issue and some minor issues. As stated above, it needs to heal the guardian. That would give the weapon some of its much needed self-sustain. The animation and cone are bit janky. The animation lags behind the character, and it misses close enemies too often. Widen the close base of the cone. It's a bit weak in damage and healing. Boost one of these. Personally, I prefer a bit more healing. Or maybe an illuminated version to boost both. 3/5, would be 4/5 if it healed the guardian too. As a personal preference, I'd also like the see it thrown as a ranged weapon on a distant target, like the ranger spear. Every spear auto should have that. It's a spear!

#2 Helio Rush: I really like the design for charging through enemies and allies to damage or heal them. But the movement is WAYYY to janky and SLOWWW........, and it needs to heal the guardian too. First off, HEAL THE GUARDIAN! Give us self-sustain on this weapon. Next, get rid of the cast time and increase the running speed, a lot. The movement should be instant and fast, or better yet, give us superspeed instead of a regular charge. I do like that we can cancel the run! Fantastic! It really helps us stay on point when everything if grouped up. Can we get this on WB F2, please? Bring Flowing Resolve into 2024! The illuminated version is weak on this. Illumination should give us an evade frame and spruce up the animation. Maybe a barrier graphic in front of our spear when illuminated? 3/5.

#3 Gleaming Disc: I have issues with this skill. It's okay as a support, but support guardians have enough ways to give might. I like how it's a whirl finisher. Nice touch. Also, this skill is a great place to put some hard defense on the weapon. Make the strike animation a block frame and then switch the CD with Solar Storm. Also give the illuminated version a bigger radius so we can use it as a ranged attack. That's all it really needs. 2/5.

#4 Solar Storm: A really cool skill that just needs some tweaks, I think. The biggest problem I have (in PVE) is actually the graphics, which are already great. Just make it flashier, especially the illuminated version. I really want to feel and see the impacts of a solar storm with bigger, illuminated blasts, like spears of divine justice raining down from the heavens and CRASHING to earth! Also increase the number of times targets can be hit with the illuminated version. Lastly, the CD is a bit long for what it does. Switch the CD with Skill #3 after giving skill #3 some D. In WVW it SERIOUSLY needs more damage, so we can use it either as an offensive or cleanse skill. 3.5/5. WVW: 2/5.

 #5 Symbol of Luminance: There is a lot to unpack here. It does a lot. Resistance and a CC are almost worth the CD, IF Honor guards didn't need lower CDs for symbols and if the illuminated effects on other skills were worth it. I'm not sure what to do here, lower the resistance duration or move it to another skill? Otherwise, boost the illuminated versions of the other skills, probably. The healing on skills 1 and 2 don't justify Writ of Persistence on a such a long CD, especially since they can't self heal. Maybe boost their healing to compensate. Other than those issues I really like the symbol, but again the animation is subpar for a #5 symbol skill. Give it some animation, like Symbol of Vengeance, and a pulsing effect on the illuminated version. 4/5.

Summary:

1. The weapon is okay. I love the design! It just needs polish and some help in critical areas.
2. Skills #1 and #2 should heal the guardian too! It seriously needs either more damage or some self sustain. Given it has potential for decent support, GIVE IT SELF-SUSTAIN! Support guards need to be able to support themselves too! 
3. Skill #2 needs to be instant cast and move MUCH faster.
4. Skill #3 should be a block frame to help with self-sustain.
5. Skill #4 needs a damage boost in WVW. Lower the CD or increase damage in all game modes.
6. Skill #5 needs a lower CD. If that means less resistance duration, so be it.
7. All illuminated skills need buffs and bigger, badder graphics.  They look and feel weak and not worth the hassle.

So not bad, but without some self-sustain, it's almost useless, especially solo or in small groups. If it can't do enough damage or else keep itself alive, then dead guard = no more support for self or allies either. I can do more damage AND support with a DPS weapon and the right traits. Give me my self-sustain and graphics, please.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

41 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

illumination barely feels like a relevant mechanic and it just feels like something you do by accident.

I think the point is to have big bursty momentus, but it fails at since there's barely any difference to illumination

[Lazer Candy.2837]

Spear 5 says it should be knocking back foes, but it is not doing that in spvp. I tested it on a friend who did not have stability.

[phandaria.4891]

5 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

That auto attack animation is SO wierd looking when you move cause it looks like it triggers from a point in space when the auto is commenced and not when it lands making that cone happen behind or to the side of you when moving. Optimize that?

Spear 1

Definitely this. Spear 1 is so weird. The cone is fixed at the start, however there is delay because of spear animation swing, hence if you move during the animation, the cone blasts behind you. There is almost like an invisible cast time on it. Solution is to speed up/streamline animation of the swing and the blast so that it is instantaneous.

Spear 2

As people said, the movement is slow and janky. There are multiple solution towards this. I prefer to make it a faster leap and area targeted. At the minimum (although not preferable), there is something similar, which is Warrior Staff 3 (also slow in my opinion). Similar but instead of dash and cancel, it is a simple area targeted skill.

Spear 5

Symbol is important aspect for healing builds and Symbolic Avenger. It needs to be on a lower CD.

 

Overall for a support weapon, the healing output is questionable and Illumination mechanic kinda fails to deliver its benefit.

Edited Friday at 06:11 AM by phandaria.4891

[Uhkam.2164]

4 hours ago, Solo.6873 said:

So far.. from a WvW standpoint

Spear 2 feels weird and I hate it. I would rather this be a targeted dash, leap or shadow step. 

 

Personally I feel it should be like a ranged attack altogether, Healing anyone on the path and dealing damage on anyone on the line.

[Batalix.2873]

3 hours ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

I think the point is to have big bursty momentus, but it fails at since there's barely any difference to illumination

I understand why they implemented it this way, to blur away the idea of a "burst" window and make the whole kit feel more synergistic, but I do have to agree that is the effect of illumination. I actually don't totally dislike it, as it the difference is less about making a different feel but about granting some consistent access to more illuminated attacks.

But it does feel like maybe something is missing. I would maybe propose that the AA could be illuminated, but only by the symbol. I'm not sure what you would add to the illuminated AA (might? blind? knockback?), although personally I think this symbol AA burst feels like a wayyyyyy better place to put alacrity on Guardian than Willbender (ew).

[SoulGuardian.6203]

3 hours ago, Uhkam.2164 said:

Personally I feel it should be like a ranged attack altogether, Healing anyone on the path and dealing damage on anyone on the line.

I think the entire weapon should be made ranged.

Especially skill 1,

Which should be a projectile. 

Guardians are magic users too... so you're right.

This weapon should be made ranged, so the guardian can focus on healing and support, whilst still having the capability to attack from a distance.

Maybe give it just the one melee attack, so to give it time to switch to a melee weapon, if attacked.

 

I would also like to request again that spears should have the option to be one handed too aswell as two handed.

So we can equip an off-hand weapon.

More possibilities. More options. More choices.

 

[Nero.7369]

WvW and General Feedback

Lacking Design Philosophy

This weapon lacks a clear design philosophy. It should have been some kind of support weapon with some power damage as it seems. But it does neither, except the power burst from skill 4. Autoattack ignored it only has 1 heal. A bit of boons and a cleanse of a single condi (in wvw). It also doesn't have any access to aegis to make use of the trait "pure of heart", which isn't necesarry a bad thing. It also cant make to use of the trait "Writ of Persistence" (Healing on Symbols) because of the long symbol cd. Right now it also lacks damage for a cele fb.

It should have clear design vision that's not similar to mace/shield or staff.

• Mace Shield provides a lot of protection, aegis, regen, projectil block and tries to keep the enemies away from your allies (Feels kinda outdated sadly)
• Staff is focuses more around healing and buffing up before engaging (Feels kinda outdated sadly)

What role should the spear fullful?

• A offensive support weapon similar to the staff on warrior. 
  • Compared to that it lacks a lot
    • Healing (4 Healing Skills on that, F1, 2, 3, 5)
    • Unblockable buff (this is really huge)
    • Pull together
    • Channeled Block (or other options for survival like evade)
  • With this the warrior can greatly create a opening for a burst from your group thanks to pulling and unblockable. while also  having a lot of heal and good access to prot, resolution, might, fury regeneration. Spellbreaker pushes the offensive even further with tons of boon rip.
• We don't need a copy pasta of warrior ofc.
• I think in wvw this should be mainly a weapon full support and cele supports.
• This weapon should focus on cc for setups, boons and a bit of healing (or maybe barrier)
• This weapon should be viable for cele firebrands and apply some conditions and able to proc F1 burns
• What this weapon should NOT be
  • A Power Damage Weapon, we have plenty of good power weapons and we dont need another new toy for willbender / dragonhunter. 
  • A pure Condi Damage Weapon, we have axe, torch, dual pistols. We are fine with them right now. 

Let's go over the skills and the mechanic. Personally I'd reduce the power damage and push it more to offensive utility support and multi hits.

1 - Daybreaking Slash

Boring

• It's an boring autoattack without a chain.
• I like that the loot stick is back, but still boring.
• It's okay if an autoattack is boring tho.
• Maybe add some vulnerability or cripple
• Animation and hit box is a bit weired you have to work on that
• This skill should have a ranged attack version as well. (That's the case for all spear AAs) When no enemy is selected it should use the melee version.

2 - Helio Rush

Terrible!!! 

• Animation looks underwhelming
• This Forced movement feels incredible terrible --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• "Cancel Helio Rush" feels terrible for chaining skills --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• The slow animation makes it even worse --> Double the speed!
• Hitting a party of 5 and enemies with such a small rush is kinda impossible ->  Move the supportive effect to the start or end. The Support effect should have an 300 radius aoe.
• Healing and Resolution should be applied to myself as well!
• Add Protection as a Boon
• Apply 10 stacks of vulnerability, maybe as well some bleed
• Add a 1/2sec evade, increase cd to 10 sec
• Should be a leap finisher
• Currently bugs sometimes and hitting downs multiple times
• This way this skill is great as an opener to rush into enemies or try to get out of them, and keeping up with the group while you are inbetween them. And the skill to keep your group standing. So Healing and defensive support goes here. Firebrand really lacks some mobility so the leap is a good thing.

3 - Gleaming Disc

Useless?

• Animation looks underwhelming
• Just a a bit of offensive boons with fury and might and a blind. Doesnt feel impactful at all.
• Second hit / shockwave is really slow right now
• First hit could be a bigger AoE as well
• Add an AoE Pull like Ranger Prelude Lash as a setup option for you allies that go along with offensive buffing them. 
• Replace the blind with cripple
• This skill should mainly be used as a setup skill for your party, probably after a rush. So the offensive support goes here. Hit with pull and a shockwave after also enable some burn application procs. maybe this should be a tirple aoe hit tho.

4 - Solar Storm

Good

• Good Animation
• Overall i think this is a good skill
• Condi Cleanse in WvW be increased to 2
• Good power damage rn. I'd reduce it.
• Could also apply some cripple and burn like 2sec per each hit
• Should apply aegis to allies
• A bit of support thru cleanse and aegis. But this should enable cele firebrands to do some good aoe damage.

5 - Symbol of Luminance

Okayish

• Good Animation
• Front loaded boons finally! Good choice, the thing is the boon should always applied exactly once! It's useless if you can extend the duration.
  • Please front load all boon applications on symbols and make it always apply the boon exactly once to a player
• Resistance duration could be a bit longer
• Good to have some pulsing weakness as an defensive condition
• Replace the Knockback with a 1,5-2 sec Knockdown / Or add a pulsing immobilize that is only applied once to enemies
• Apply some barrier to allies on pulse
• This should be mainly a utility skill, resistance and barrier seems really good to for a bit of support. and initial hard cc or some immobilize allow seem fine as well.

Illuminated Mechanic

The mechanic seems really subtle, so i am not hyped for it. On the other hand if it just works naturally it isn't bad either.

Bugs sometimes and you can get the buff perma.

Edited Sunday at 10:59 PM by Nero.7369

[Nero.7369]

7 hours ago, Lazer Candy.2837 said:

Spear 5 says it should be knocking back foes, but it is not doing that in spvp. I tested it on a friend who did not have stability.

Layer 8 Error: it specifies that it knocks back a range of 0 so yes not a real knockback, plus you have to illuminated

Edited Friday at 12:32 PM by Nero.7369

[Mysticjedi.6053]

My 2 cents: 

It's not a cleave weapon, very much a 1v1 weapon. 

Skill 1: It's an auto attack. It's cute and can be effective. It's not the best auto attack, but not necessarily the worst. It would be cool if it got an illuminated boost, or gave illumination on the third hit. 

Skill 2: It's a movement skill that supports others. I like the base healing on it, but the Illuminated version could also provide self-heal along with boosted group healing. I know others feel it is clunky, but I think is gives good positionality and can be useful. 

Skill 3: Increase the radius of the spring attack.

Skill 4: I like it, wish the Illuminated hit for more damage. 

Skill 5: Someone said to increase the knockback. I agree. 

Illuminated is a cool mechanic on the weapon, but the Illuminated versions are a little lackluster. The tooltips are novels. I feel like they need to be more concise. This feels like it could be a great Willbender weapon with some self-sustain added on. I'm willing to sacrifice damage for sustain, I'm a Guardian after all 😉, but the build for the weapon needs to be more coherent. 

[zeyeti.8347]

Bit weird the aa chain have the same effect while having another animation , you could increase the range and targets while chaining up , like 1 - 350 range , 2 - 450 , 3 - 600 , and targets from 3 , 4 and 5 without having to hit an ally or an enemy plz (for damage ofc , for healing it would be completely broken in wvw spamming this skill)

Skill 2 is super weird to use , it's supposed to be 600 range but is 300 (tested out with 2x tap and maintaining and just noticed the flip over skill is to stop charging , don't have even the time to press it before my char has finished his charge 😁) and is also super slow like warrior staff 3 , if you could speed up a bit those two while making skill spear 2 a real 600 range

i don't really know what this weapon is supposed to be , feels like a weird mix between staff and greatsword , while being bad in both uses, make it either a full support weapon with more range for boons and better uptime , or scale up the power damage cause it's really low , healing coefficient wise seems alright , i could easily swap my staff from fb to this with few tweeks , like boon range and maybe swiftness application.

otherwise skill 4 and 5 are gorgeous , kudos to the animation/art team

Edited Friday at 12:41 PM by zeyeti.8347

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, Nero.7369 said:

WvW and General Feedback

Lacking Design Philosophy

This weapon lacks a clear design philosophy. It should have been some kind of support weapon with some power damage as it seems. But it does neither. Autoattack ignored it only has 1 heal. A bit of boons and a cleanse of a single condi (in wvw). It also doesn't have any access to aegis to make use of the trait "pure of heart", which isn't necesarry a bad thing. It also cant make to use of the trait "Writ of Persistence" (Healing on Symbols) because of the long symbol cd. Right now it also lacks damage for a cele fb.

It should have clear design vision that's not similar to mace/shield or staff.

• Mace Shield provides a lot of protection, aegis, regen, projectil block and tries to keep the enemies away from your allies (Feels kinda outdated sadly)
• Staff is focuses more around healing and buffing up before engaging (Feels kinda outdated sadly)

What role should the spear fullful?

• A offensive support weapon similar to the staff on warrior. 
  • Compared to that it lacks a lot
    • Healing (4 Healing Skills on that, F1, 2, 3, 5)
    • Unblockable buff (this is really huge)
    • Pull together
    • Channeled Block (or other options for survival like evade)
  • With this the warrior can greatly create a opening for a burst from your group thanks to pulling and unblockable. while also  having a lot of heal and good access to prot, resolution, might, fury regeneration. Spellbreaker pushes the offensive even further with tons of boon rip.
• We don't need a copy pasta of warrior ofc.
• I think in wvw this should be mainly a weapon full support and cele supports.
• This weapon should focus on cc for setups, boons and a bit of healing (or maybe barrier)
• This weapon should be viable for cele firebrands and apply some conditions and able to proc F1 burns
• What this weapon shoult NOT be
  • A Power Damage Weapon, we have plenty of good power weapons and we dont need another new toy for willbender / dragonhunter
  • A pure Condi Damage Weapon, we have axe, torch, dual pistols. We are fine with them right now. 

Let's go over the skills and the mechanic:

1 - Daybreaking Slash

Boring

• It's an boring autoattack without a chain.
• I like that the loot stick is back, but still boring.
• It's okay if an autoattack is boring tho.
• Maybe add some vulnerability or cripple
• Animation and hit box is a bit weired you have to work on that
• This skill should have a ranged attack version as well. (That's the case for all spear AAs) When no enemy is selected it should use the melee version.

2 - Helio Rush

Terrible!!! 

• Animation looks underwhelming
• This Forced movement feels incredible terrible --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• "Cancel Helio Rush" feels terrible for chaining skills --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• The slow animation makes it even worse --> Double the speed!
• Hitting a party of 5 and enemies with such a small rush is kinda impossible ->  Move the supportive effect to the start or end. The Support effect should have an 300 radius aoe.
• Healing and Resolution should be applied to myself as well!
• Add Protection as a Boon
• Apply 10 stacks of vulnerability, maybe as well some bleed
• Add a 1/2sec evade, increase cd to 10 sec
• Should be a leap finisher
• This way this skill is great as an opener to rush into enemies or try to get out of them, and keeping up with the group while you are inbetween them. And the skill to keep your group standing. So Healing and defensive support goes here. Firebrand really lacks some mobility so the leap is a good thing.

3 - Gleaming Disc

Useless?

• Animation looks underwhelming
• Just a a bit of offensive boons with fury and might and a blind. Doesnt feel impactful at all.
• Second hit / shockwave is really slow right now
• Shoule be bigger AoE
• Add an AoE Pull like Ranger Prelude Lash as a setup option for you allies that go along with offensive buffing them 
• Replace the blind with cripple
• This skill should mainly be used as a setup skill for your party, probably after a rush. So the offensive support goes here. Hit with pull and a shockwave after also enable some burn application procs. maybe this should be a tirple aoe hit tho.

4 - Solar Storm

Good

• Good Animation
• Overall i think this is a good skill
• Condi Cleanse in WvW be increased to 2
• Could also apply some cripple and burn like 2sec per each hit
• Should apply aegis to allies
• A bit of support thru cleanse and aegis. But this should enable cele firebrands to do some good aoe damage.

5 - Symbol of Luminance

Okayish

• Good Animation
• Front loaded boons finally! Good choice, the thing is the boon should always applied exactly once! It's useless if you can extend the duration.
  • Please front load all boon applications on symbols and make it always apply the boon exactly once to a player
• Resistance duration could be a bit longer
• Good to have some pulsing weakness as an defensive condition
• Replace the Knockback with a 1,5-2 sec Knockdown / Or add a pulsing immobilize that is only applied once to enemies
• Apply some barrier to allies on pulse
• This should be mainly a utility skill, resistance and barrier seems really good to for a bit of support. and initial hard cc or some immobilize allow seem fine as well.

Illuminated Mechanic

The mechanic seems really subtle, so i am not hyped for it. On the other hand if it just works naturally it isn't bad either.

Bugs sometimes and you can get perma the buff.

This right here.

It's all very well explained. 

 

Thank you so much for taking your time to post this.

Especially this:

Quote

 

1 - Daybreaking Slash

 

Boring

 

It's an boring autoattack without a chain.

I like that the loot stick is back, but still boring.

It's okay if an autoattack is boring tho.

Maybe add some vulnerability or cripple

Animation and hit box is a bit weired you have to work on that

This skill should have a ranged attack version as well. (That's the case for all spear AAs) When no enemy is selected it should use the melee version.

 

Hopefully the devs will read your post, and actually change it.

Thanks again.

[Ezrael.6859]

Having used it as a power build for roaming, small group, zerging and PvP for two days it just doesn't do anything useful compared to our other options.

Spear is almost pure damage with very little CC, poorly dessigned support options, clunky low-mobility and no self-sustain or defence.

 

Damage is too low for a weapon mostly focused on damage with few other things going on, you'd be better off in melee with a Greatsword or at range with a Longbow. For damage control the Hammer is better. Staff is much better support.

Spear sustain is clunky and pointless, the auto spam is rubbish, Helio Rush is the clunkiest skill Guardian has, using it offensively is a mess that runs you away from your target and no-one wants to have to double tap skills to stop them running you away from combat, that's bad design, to heal allies it's a joke, the concept just doesn't work.

Symbol of Luminance as the only CC is clunky to use due to the poor mobilty of the weapon and this AoE symbol 0 knockback, you have to combo with a utility or profession skill and the pay-off isn't worth that, Judges - Mighty Blow or Whirling Wrath is worth it, this is not.

 

The illuminated versions are pointless and the skills should all be the illuminated versions as the baseline. The illuminated design just doesn't work, it's not fun or engaging; it's not worth trying to maintain it.

You end up spamming 345 for too little damage then sitting around with a rubbish low range auto-attack and a useless rush.

There's no synergy between the skills they are a total mismatch with no synergistic playstyle between them.

 

Warrior Greatsword in 2012 had more synergy between the skills.

 

Against anyone running a good solo build whether power or condi the Spear is a liability, it's especially slow and clunky vs anything mobile like a Thief and vs a Thief with a Spear it's a joke by comparison.

Ultimately - it doesn't do a burst well, it doesn't do a sustained fight well, it doesn't do well vs mobility and the damage at range is not high enough with a long cooldown.

All someone has to do when you pull out the spear is to just run the other way for a bit and avoid all the damage.

 

1 - Make the healing affect the Guardian too. Add a single target channeled beam to Auto attack between 350-600 range.

2 - Make Helio Rush a target leap with the healing component to also affect the Guardian, make the Resolution land on the Guardian too.

3 - Make Fury and Blind baseline - Add 3s of self Quickness to illuminated effect.

4 - Reduce WvW cooldown to 15s, increase conditions removed to 2.

5 - Increase Resistance to 4s.

Edited Friday at 06:19 PM by Ezrael.6859

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Nero.7369 said:

WvW and General Feedback

Lacking Design Philosophy

This weapon lacks a clear design philosophy. It should have been some kind of support weapon with some power damage as it seems. But it does neither. Autoattack ignored it only has 1 heal. A bit of boons and a cleanse of a single condi (in wvw). It also doesn't have any access to aegis to make use of the trait "pure of heart", which isn't necesarry a bad thing. It also cant make to use of the trait "Writ of Persistence" (Healing on Symbols) because of the long symbol cd. Right now it also lacks damage for a cele fb.

It should have clear design vision that's not similar to mace/shield or staff.

• Mace Shield provides a lot of protection, aegis, regen, projectil block and tries to keep the enemies away from your allies (Feels kinda outdated sadly)
• Staff is focuses more around healing and buffing up before engaging (Feels kinda outdated sadly)

What role should the spear fullful?

• A offensive support weapon similar to the staff on warrior. 
  • Compared to that it lacks a lot
    • Healing (4 Healing Skills on that, F1, 2, 3, 5)
    • Unblockable buff (this is really huge)
    • Pull together
    • Channeled Block (or other options for survival like evade)
  • With this the warrior can greatly create a opening for a burst from your group thanks to pulling and unblockable. while also  having a lot of heal and good access to prot, resolution, might, fury regeneration. Spellbreaker pushes the offensive even further with tons of boon rip.
• We don't need a copy pasta of warrior ofc.
• I think in wvw this should be mainly a weapon full support and cele supports.
• This weapon should focus on cc for setups, boons and a bit of healing (or maybe barrier)
• This weapon should be viable for cele firebrands and apply some conditions and able to proc F1 burns
• What this weapon shoult NOT be
  • A Power Damage Weapon, we have plenty of good power weapons and we dont need another new toy for willbender / dragonhunter
  • A pure Condi Damage Weapon, we have axe, torch, dual pistols. We are fine with them right now. 

Let's go over the skills and the mechanic:

1 - Daybreaking Slash

Boring

• It's an boring autoattack without a chain.
• I like that the loot stick is back, but still boring.
• It's okay if an autoattack is boring tho.
• Maybe add some vulnerability or cripple
• Animation and hit box is a bit weired you have to work on that
• This skill should have a ranged attack version as well. (That's the case for all spear AAs) When no enemy is selected it should use the melee version.

2 - Helio Rush

Terrible!!! 

• Animation looks underwhelming
• This Forced movement feels incredible terrible --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• "Cancel Helio Rush" feels terrible for chaining skills --> Make this a ground targeting skill where to rush to
• The slow animation makes it even worse --> Double the speed!
• Hitting a party of 5 and enemies with such a small rush is kinda impossible ->  Move the supportive effect to the start or end. The Support effect should have an 300 radius aoe.
• Healing and Resolution should be applied to myself as well!
• Add Protection as a Boon
• Apply 10 stacks of vulnerability, maybe as well some bleed
• Add a 1/2sec evade, increase cd to 10 sec
• Should be a leap finisher
• This way this skill is great as an opener to rush into enemies or try to get out of them, and keeping up with the group while you are inbetween them. And the skill to keep your group standing. So Healing and defensive support goes here. Firebrand really lacks some mobility so the leap is a good thing.

3 - Gleaming Disc

Useless?

• Animation looks underwhelming
• Just a a bit of offensive boons with fury and might and a blind. Doesnt feel impactful at all.
• Second hit / shockwave is really slow right now
• Shoule be bigger AoE
• Add an AoE Pull like Ranger Prelude Lash as a setup option for you allies that go along with offensive buffing them 
• Replace the blind with cripple
• This skill should mainly be used as a setup skill for your party, probably after a rush. So the offensive support goes here. Hit with pull and a shockwave after also enable some burn application procs. maybe this should be a tirple aoe hit tho.

4 - Solar Storm

Good

• Good Animation
• Overall i think this is a good skill
• Condi Cleanse in WvW be increased to 2
• Could also apply some cripple and burn like 2sec per each hit
• Should apply aegis to allies
• A bit of support thru cleanse and aegis. But this should enable cele firebrands to do some good aoe damage.

5 - Symbol of Luminance

Okayish

• Good Animation
• Front loaded boons finally! Good choice, the thing is the boon should always applied exactly once! It's useless if you can extend the duration.
  • Please front load all boon applications on symbols and make it always apply the boon exactly once to a player
• Resistance duration could be a bit longer
• Good to have some pulsing weakness as an defensive condition
• Replace the Knockback with a 1,5-2 sec Knockdown / Or add a pulsing immobilize that is only applied once to enemies
• Apply some barrier to allies on pulse
• This should be mainly a utility skill, resistance and barrier seems really good to for a bit of support. and initial hard cc or some immobilize allow seem fine as well.

Illuminated Mechanic

The mechanic seems really subtle, so i am not hyped for it. On the other hand if it just works naturally it isn't bad either.

Bugs sometimes and you can get perma the buff.

Very good and salient points! But I feel like all your suggestions would seriously overtune the weapon from something a bit lackluster to way OP. Maybe just a few you listed for each skill? I bolded/underlined the ones I like most. 😉 

[Bish.8627]

I still think the biggest crime is it targets 3 enemies/allies on auto not 5. A big reason axe gets dropped from a lot of kits is that alone.