Will the Skyscale Fireball skill ever be changed to prevent semi-afking/leeching events and metas? [Merged]

[Gop.8713]

Five minutes just seems like a really long time to me in this context. Many events don't even take that long to complete. I'd want a much shorter time, like thirty seconds from being fully dead, not just downed. Maybe not even that long. Bc nobody should be ressing the fully dead anyway. The quicker respawn time would also do something to encourage active play, since the ppls lazy enough to lay there dead are the same ppls who can't be arsed to fly back from a wp, they wouldn't want to die and get moved. Again it might not make a huge difference, but it's the only thing I've heard proposed that wouldn't impact legit players . . .

Anyway I think this sort of thinking is a much more constructive way to address the problem that just saying "omg can we do something about these lazy fireball ppls", bc that just leads to lazy pewpew ppls and then you have to do something about them when they'll just find a way around that as well. And there might be other constructive solutions other than the autores thing out there as well, but I haven't seen any, just ppls complaining : /

[Jin.8501]

On 7/3/2024 at 1:19 AM, Parasite.5389 said:

are they stealing your loot? or in any way preventing you for completing the event normally?

no... then it's not a problem

Your name fits

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I can somewhat understand when people get bored at a "hp sponge". 

Take the Eparch meta fight for example. 

It's just me sitting under the boss doing my dps rotation for 15min while the rest of the squad runs around like chicken, doing abysmal dps. 

The boss requires a average dps of 8.4k to kill. That's obviously WAY to high for the average Openworld player. 

Even so we have 1 button build doing 20k+ dps at this point. 

Anet is powercreeping the game to high heaven but somehow, Openworld players still tickle the boss but scream for rewards. 

[CETheLucid.3964]

On 7/2/2024 at 4:30 PM, Zalle.5468 said:

Will the Skyscale Fireball skill ever be changed to prevent semi-afking/leeching events and metas?

It's not the problem you think it is. Your metas didn't fail because a couple of people were on their Skyscales for X amount of time. They're literally part of the meta for Amnytas and Inner Nayos. Sucks that you've had some bad experiences with it.

Harassing people about using their mounts is almost certainly going to illicit a negative response or goad them into using it even more just to spite you. It'll never go the way you want it to.

You're lucky the worst you got was some guy telling you that they're handicapped.

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

The fireball was a mistake and it should not be able to affect participation outside of events where it's actually needed. You're not participating, you're just contributing to scaling in the worst way and getting rewarded for doing so.

[Zalle.5468]

16 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

It's not the problem you think it is. Your metas didn't fail because a couple of people were on their Skyscales for X amount of time. They're literally part of the meta for Amnytas and Inner Nayos. Sucks that you've had some bad experiences with it.

Harassing people about using their mounts is almost certainly going to illicit a negative response or goad them into using it even more just to spite you. It'll never go the way you want it to.

You're lucky the worst you got was some guy telling you that they're handicapped.

I literally name Amnytas and Heitor meta as examples where this is reasonable and understandable, because they're mechanics. I've not seen anyone complain they couldn't do Xera because they didn't have the mastery... (I can totally see it happen I've just never seen it happen)

[CETheLucid.3964]

2 hours ago, Zalle.5468 said:

I literally name Amnytas and Heitor meta as examples where this is reasonable and understandable, because they're mechanics. I've not seen anyone complain they couldn't do Xera because they didn't have the mastery... (I can totally see it happen I've just never seen it happen)

I've never seen someone make a leap of logic from open world shenanigans to raiding scenarios to make a point, but here we are. Rather I often hear that skyscales in lower level areas are overkill.

It's funny you mention the longbow ranger AAing metas. The skyscale fireball will do roughly equivalent. Maybe more if you're trying. And don't let two people who know how the turtle works join a meta; they'll embarrass most of the participants.

Spamming 1 or camping skyscale all fight is bad. I'm not defending that. I'm also not seeing it happen on any appreciable level. Maybe I'm just lucky?

10% carries the other 90%. That was a thing well before you had skyscales to be mad about. Well before GW2 even. It's open world. You don't get to curate the randoms. You also don't have to participate.

Try joining up with like minded people ahead of the meta as opposed to begging for things to be taken away from everyone for the sake of a few dinks.

Edited July 6 by CETheLucid.3964

[Zalle.5468]

48 minutes ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

I've never seen someone make a leap of logic from open world shenanigans to raiding scenarios to make a point, but here we are. Rather I often hear that skyscales in lower level areas are overkill.

It's funny you mention the longbow ranger AAing metas. The skyscale fireball will do roughly equivalent. Maybe more if you're trying. And don't let two people who know how the turtle works join a meta; they'll embarrass most of the participants.

Spamming 1 or camping skyscale all fight is bad. I'm not defending that. I'm also not seeing it happen on any appreciable level. Maybe I'm just lucky?

10% carries the other 90%. That was a thing well before you had skyscales to be mad about. Well before GW2 even. It's open world. You don't get to curate the randoms. You also don't have to participate.

Try joining up with like minded people ahead of the meta as opposed to begging for things to be taken away from everyone for the sake of a few dinks.

There is no leap in logic. I'm comparing mechanics locked behind masteries, except some are open world and the other is raid mastery.

10 skyscale fireballs, in full power gear, hits about 2.5k-2.8k dps over ~13 seconds on the golem. Here are some things I've found which also do the same dps. A reaper taking off all their accessories and pressing 1 on greatsword. Snowcrow's condi virt hits like 5k just pressing 1 on dagger, but it's an optimized raid build so I understand not counting it. All three tests were done without boons.

Also I am joining up with like-minded people... I'm saying this because I'm tired of commanding a squad and having people doing the equivalent of putting a post-it note with their name on it as participation. I want to possibly propose changes to the developers so here I am talking about it on the forums! Also I'm not mad about "10% carrying the 90%", its that each player in that 90% is doing more than skyscale leeches. I want that to change for the better

[CETheLucid.3964]

3 hours ago, Zalle.5468 said:

I am joining up with like-minded people... I'm saying this because I'm tired of commanding a squad and having people doing the equivalent of putting a post-it note with their name on it as participation.

Well, I stand corrected. You as the commander do get to curate the randoms. At least for the most part. I've seen mentor tags and randoms that just pop it up to get people organized to do something willy nilly and things tend to go well.

I'm going to assume you're a more disciplined and organized kind of guy. You're getting those like-minded people. What's happening that you've got a considerable number of people in your map phoning it in on their skyscales?

Never had a meta where I can say with 100% confidence it was a massive majesty of dragon riding dorks or a turn of turtle riders that caused it to fail. I don't know what to tell you. I hope it doesn't keep happening to you. But I am going to stand by my assertion that that isn't a common scenario most players are finding themselves in.

Might even say you're overstating the issue due to some bad experiences or personal angst with the two or three guys you caught slacking on one of your runs.

[Doggie.3184]

Their fireballs are probably helping clear the event faster than you are cuz you're too busy semi-AFK whining.

[zeyeti.8347]

On 7/3/2024 at 10:45 PM, Palador.2170 said:

Small question, as someone that does sometimes fly in with a skyscale and lob a fireball or two before landing: 

Do you consider it a problem if the person fireballs, then lands and joins in normally? Or if they land the skyscale and keep launching fireballs from on the ground?

I have a couple of characters that I'd consider "not that great", and like that I can at least use skyscale to bridge the gap, somewhat.

"Not so great" ? you mean you don't pass 1500 dmg per sec ..... ? i do that with a lvl 40 character ..... c'mon , at this stage it's just pure laziness ....

[zeyeti.8347]

6 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

It's funny you mention the longbow ranger AAing metas. The skyscale fireball will do roughly equivalent.

Tested ? well i tested (yeah i have time to spare) , with a core ranger (not even slb) and some decent traitline the aa chain is roughly 5k - 5.5k dps , fireball spamming is 2k damage (not even counting at some point you have no more ammo and are a complete burden...) ,

So if for you doing more than twice the damage is roughly the same you must have been a real dunce in math ... and not to mention i did it with 0 buff and 0 condition on golem , so in a meta where buff are everywhere on the ground not in the sky (you see my point i hope...) your damage will almost double , on land ofc ... as for your skyscale i really wonder what your damage output will be when fireball ammo is depleted ...

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Their fireballs are probably helping clear the event faster than you are cuz you're too busy semi-AFK whining.

yeah maybe in queensdale cleaning lvl 5 bandits who try to pollute water , i am pretty sure the lvl 5 npcs who guard the pipeline do more damage than your skyscale. Not to mention the bandits move and afk fireball spitters are not know to be good at action camera aiming... must be as good as old stormtroopers from star wars first movie...

[sokeenoppa.5384]

Based on My testing with dps meter, skyscale spamming skill 2 is actually more damage than many players in open world normally deal with their weird builds, which is kinda sad.

[Manpag.6421]

8 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

It's funny you mention the longbow ranger AAing metas. The skyscale fireball will do roughly equivalent. Maybe more if you're trying. And don't let two people who know how the turtle works join a meta; they'll embarrass most of the participants.

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Tested ? well i tested (yeah i have time to spare) , with a core ranger (not even slb) and some decent traitline the aa chain is roughly 5k - 5.5k dps , fireball spamming is 2k damage (not even counting at some point you have no more ammo and are a complete burden...)

To aid comparison, a turtle without a gunner can do around 6-7k dps.

[Randulf.7614]

I do think a lot of this is coming down to snobbery and a demand that all players should be doing an x amount of damage minimum otherwise are not welcome. The fireball adds a bit of fun for a lot of players and the effect on event failure is almost non existent that I can see. An individuals participation score is irrelevant - the game was specifically designed to be this way.
 

Let’s not lose sight that this is a video game and if people want to have fun, then let’s embrace that. If events were failing en masse, it would be a conversation to have,  it they aren’t 

Edited July 6 by Randulf.7614
Spelling

[zeyeti.8347]

1 minute ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I dthink a lot of this is coming down to snobbery and a demand that all players should be doing an x amount of damage minimum otherwise are not welcome. The fireball adds a bit of fun for a lot of players and the effect on event failure is almost non existent that I can see. An individuals participation score is irrelevant - the game was specifically designed to be this way.
 

lets not lose sigh that this is a video game and if people want to have fun, then let’s embrace that. If events were failing en masse, it would be a conversation to have,  it they aren’t 

We talk about recent metas were the timing often fall short , like public convergence , nayos chain event to spider lair. 

nothing to do with snobbery , it's a bit normal you ask people to actually participate to the event and not being just an additional x% more hp to a boss , those people are happy that they are some "so called elitist" who carry the value of 5-6 average players , let's all do 3k damage all together afk and you will see no recent meta ending well.

[Randulf.7614]

Just now, zeyeti.8347 said:

We talk about recent metas were the timing often fall short , like public convergence , nayos chain event to spider lair. 

nothing to do with snobbery , it's a bit normal you ask people to actually participate to the event and not being just an additional x% more hp to a boss , those people are happy that they are some "so called elitist" who carry the value of 5-6 average players , let's all do 3k damage all together afk and you will see no recent meta ending well.

People aren’t using it in convergence public and causing it to fail tho (has public ever failed because of the timer?) and I’ve never seen it in cause failures anywhere in Nayos metas even once. So those aren’t examples that fit the topic.

I agree people who hit once and afk are a problem, but that a separate topic entirely. The fireball is irrelevant there because people would do that regardless.

The vast majority overwhelmingly use the fireball either for fun or responsibly so as not to fail an event. So why should they be punished by removing or nerfing a mastery because a handful misuse it and would find a way to be lazy no matter what?

[Cronospere.8143]

You cant prevent it. 

Its the same as players semi afk auto attacking 1 

[Zalle.5468]

10 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

You cant prevent it. 

Its the same as players semi afk auto attacking 1 

pls read thread, gamer

[zeyeti.8347]

On 7/6/2024 at 1:34 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

People aren’t using it in convergence public and causing it to fail tho (has public ever failed because of the timer?) and I’ve never seen it in cause failures anywhere in Nayos metas even once. So those aren’t examples that fit the topic.

I agree people who hit once and afk are a problem, but that a separate topic entirely. The fireball is irrelevant there because people would do that regardless.

The vast majority overwhelmingly use the fireball either for fun or responsibly so as not to fail an event. So why should they be punished by removing or nerfing a mastery because a handful misuse it and would find a way to be lazy no matter what?

your own experience , i have experienced fail in public convergence cause ppl afk either on ground either on skysclae , nor doing damage , nor doing cc , nor healing glenna 2.0 zojja, the fact that some commander are threatening to kick off if afk skyscale is a proof it happens , lucky you if you did not had it happening.

for the rest i really think ppl don't care they use the fireball on 95% of the metas or event on the game , as those are mostly a cakewalk now , but for the mentionned event like spider lair or public convergence where timing or mechanic can result in a fail if some ppl are not active , it's kind of a problem , and it's not be avoiding mechanics and play the "coward" way ppl are gonna learn how to deal with the actual boss , just think if everyone was like them , wouldn't we be in trouble ? as i said every player should do 2k dps , trust me you will fail every soo won meta , every spider lair and every convergence.

Edited July 8 by zeyeti.8347

[Cronospere.8143]

On 7/7/2024 at 1:16 AM, Zalle.5468 said:

pls read thread, gamer

I did. And thats my answer. You can change the fireball skill anyway you want. There will still be people contributing absolutely nothing. 

[Randulf.7614]

3 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

your own experience , i have experienced fail in public convergence cause ppl afk either on ground either on skysclae , nor doing damage , nor doing cc , nor healing glenna 2.0 zojja, the fact that some commander are threatening to kick off if afk skyscale is a proof it happens , lucky you if you did not had it happening.

Right, but you list a whole host of reasons which really aren’t down to the fireball. People who afk or ignore mechanics will do so regardless of the fireball. That isn’t causing the failure, it’s people going afk or ignoring Zojja. Remove the fireball and the same problem happens. It’s not the cause of failure.

We  aren’t talking about afkers or afk skyscale, but the fireball specifically which isn’t affecting Eparch or convergence. Other things are.

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:21 AM, CETheLucid.3964 said:

is almost certainly going to illicit a negative response or goad them into using it even more just to spite you.

Ah yes, the classic "sure, I was using it all the time anyways to leech, but since now you mentioned it, it means you're the cause of me doing it!". Literal timetraveller's excuse. 😉 

[zeyeti.8347]

22 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Right, but you list a whole host of reasons which really aren’t down to the fireball. People who afk or ignore mechanics will do so regardless of the fireball. That isn’t causing the failure, it’s people going afk or ignoring Zojja. Remove the fireball and the same problem happens. It’s not the cause of failure.

We  aren’t talking about afkers or afk skyscale, but the fireball specifically which isn’t affecting Eparch or convergence. Other things are.

I agree partially , but fireball gameplay endorse non active gameplay and an easy way to avoid any mechanic by the price of doing non existent damage , and while fireball isn't the whole problem , it's still part of it , it should be available only when it's needed , like glider attacks are only availbale in new maps.

i avoid any public convergence as it mostly fail due to ppl afk (on skyscale or not) 

But you are right on one thing , removing it will not make ppl afk less , but at least they will go on the ground and deal more damage by AA and if they die they will be removed from the equation , better have someone dead than a walking burden succeptible to fail a mechanic ... remind of ppl not knowing how to avoid the sniper deadshot on kaineng overlook cm and still aimed at while dead , more usefull dead than alive i would say...

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I agree partially , but fireball gameplay endorse non active gameplay and an easy way to avoid any mechanic by the price of doing non existent damage , and while fireball isn't the whole problem , it's still part of it , it should be available only when it's needed , like glider attacks are only availbale in new maps.

i avoid any public convergence as it mostly fail due to ppl afk (on skyscale or not) 

But you are right on one thing , removing it will not make ppl afk less , but at least they will go on the ground and deal more damage by AA and if they die they will be removed from the equation , better have someone dead than a walking burden succeptible to fail a mechanic ... remind of ppl not knowing how to avoid the sniper deadshot on kaineng overlook cm and still aimed at while dead , more usefull dead than alive i would say...

You may want to rethink doing public convergence. It’s quite rare to get failures now. I can’t remember the last time one did for me - prob just after the last boss release.