Riba.3271 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) Right now you can slot 2 improvements in camps: Packed or Speedy Dolyaks. One of them is superior to another in every way, do you know which? Speedy - Dolyak moves 100% faster (100% faster upgrading, 100% more supply) - Cannot be speed boosted Packed - Dolyak carries 100% more supply - Dolyak counts as 2 for upgrade instead of 1 - Can be speed boosted Answer to title ****** = SPEEDY. Speedy dolyak is useless. Packed dolyaks provide same upgrading speed and supply, but can also be speed boosted. This means as long as you're providing high superspeed upkeep (Scrapper) or even permanent (holosmith), packed dolyaks + speed boosting can provide you up to 4x upgrade speed, while speedy is always capped at 2x. How to fix Having access to 4 times upgrade speed is already problematic itself, so Packed dolyaks should be reworked. Following 2 changes should be done: Packed dolyaks count as 1 for upgrade instead of 2 Packed dolyaks carry 200% more supply instead of 100%. End result: Speedy is superior for upgrading and packed for supply. As intended. Now players have meaningful decision in hand about which tactic to slot in. Side discussion: Armored Dolyaks Does anyone use this tactic? Shouldn't it just be replaced by buffing the camp guards/lord or something? Edited July 7 by Riba.3271 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said: Side discussion: Armored Dolyaks Does anyone use this tactic? Shouldn't it just be replaced by buffing the camp guards/lord or something? maybe have it repair the structure walls/gates/inbuild siege by like 10% per dolyak for us lazy peoples edit: does the fat dolyak still get stuck at Garri southeast gate? Edited July 7 by bq pd.2148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Because everyone always have a scrapper or holosmith following every single dolyak on all four maps around. /s 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 3 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said: Because everyone always have a scrapper or holosmith following every single dolyak on all four maps around. Even if you don't, packed will provide same benefits (+100% supply, +100% upgrade speed) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Uhhh… yeah okay i kinda agree but is it that big of a deal overall? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Oh the *** was part of a question? I assumed you had to censor it so thought that would be a weird tactivator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPotato.7456 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 7 hours ago, Riba.3271 said: Right now you can slot 2 improvements in camps: Packed or Speedy Dolyaks. One of them is superior to another in every way, do you know which? Speedy - Dolyak moves 100% faster (100% faster upgrading, 100% more supply) - Cannot be speed boosted Packed - Dolyak carries 100% more supply - Dolyak counts as 2 for upgrade instead of 1 - Can be speed boosted Answer to title ****** = SPEEDY. Speedy dolyak is useless. Packed dolyaks provide same upgrading speed and supply, but can also be speed boosted. This means as long as you're providing high superspeed upkeep (Scrapper) or even permanent (holosmith), packed dolyaks + speed boosting can provide you up to 4x upgrade speed, while speedy is always capped at 2x. How to fix Having access to 4 times upgrade speed is already problematic itself, so Packed dolyaks should be reworked. Following 2 changes should be done: Packed dolyaks count as 1 for upgrade instead of 2 Packed dolyaks carry 200% more supply instead of 100%. End result: Speedy is superior for upgrading and packed for supply. As intended. Now players have meaningful decision in hand about which tactic to slot in. Side discussion: Armored Dolyaks Does anyone use this tactic? Shouldn't it just be replaced by buffing the camp guards/lord or something? This is a problem because players take the initiative to speed the dolyak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorani.7205 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I would not be so harsh with the verdict concerning Speedy Dolyaks. Speed Dollies have a decent chance of being able to "run past" roamers and reach their destination, when they have their NPC caravan guards and are not slowed so much by enemy sentries. Packed Dollies clearly shine when they get sped up, but to be honest, I don't see that a lot (with the exception of Mondays, when people get the "escort 10 dollies for weekly"). Perhaps your observations are different. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryDude.1572 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 12 hours ago, Riba.3271 said: Right now you can slot 2 improvements in camps: Packed or Speedy Dolyaks. One of them is superior to another in every way, do you know which? Speedy - Dolyak moves 100% faster (100% faster upgrading, 100% more supply) - Cannot be speed boosted Packed - Dolyak carries 100% more supply - Dolyak counts as 2 for upgrade instead of 1 - Can be speed boosted Answer to title ****** = SPEEDY. Speedy dolyak is useless. Packed dolyaks provide same upgrading speed and supply, but can also be speed boosted. This means as long as you're providing high superspeed upkeep (Scrapper) or even permanent (holosmith), packed dolyaks + speed boosting can provide you up to 4x upgrade speed, while speedy is always capped at 2x. How to fix Having access to 4 times upgrade speed is already problematic itself, so Packed dolyaks should be reworked. Following 2 changes should be done: Packed dolyaks count as 1 for upgrade instead of 2 Packed dolyaks carry 200% more supply instead of 100%. End result: Speedy is superior for upgrading and packed for supply. As intended. Now players have meaningful decision in hand about which tactic to slot in. Side discussion: Armored Dolyaks Does anyone use this tactic? Shouldn't it just be replaced by buffing the camp guards/lord or something? You put speedy in north camp alpine cause the route is long, packed in the other camps that are closer Ebg all packed routes are short Edited July 7 by MysteryDude.1572 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igmolicious.5986 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Maybe I just have had some really weird matchups the last few years, but the only times I see people speeding yaks is when there's a daily/weekly for escorts (very rarely even see guilds doing escorts for guild missions) or when a keep/tower is very close (like under 10 yaks) to raising a tier -- and even then, it's usually only if that objective is damaged from a recent attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Fast yaks do a couple of things. Means the delivery will more than likely happen. Frees up any player escorting so that they can be more pro-active and take the other side's camp versus walking a yak around. Means that the yak and player escorting are less of a farmable asset for enemy roamers that are waiting in the camp to objective path to farm them. Not to mention a secondary goal of a roamer farming yaks and escorts is that the escorts will call out in map chat about the farming effort and bring in more people which gives the enemy roamer the extra benefit of pulling more players away from real targets that they should be moving to. Its the same as the keep tapper but in camp version. So no packed isn't a better choice, I might say its more like setting your side up for a trap at times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jul.7602 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 22 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said: Fast yaks do a couple of things. Means the delivery will more than likely happen. Frees up any player escorting so that they can be more pro-active and take the other side's camp versus walking a yak around. Means that the yak and player escorting are less of a farmable asset for enemy roamers that are waiting in the camp to objective path to farm them. Not to mention a secondary goal of a roamer farming yaks and escorts is that the escorts will call out in map chat about the farming effort and bring in more people which gives the enemy roamer the extra benefit of pulling more players away from real targets that they should be moving to. Its the same as the keep tapper but in camp version. So no packed isn't a better choice, I might say its more like setting your side up for a trap at times. 6 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said: I would not be so harsh with the verdict concerning Speedy Dolyaks. Speed Dollies have a decent chance of being able to "run past" roamers and reach their destination, when they have their NPC caravan guards and are not slowed so much by enemy sentries. Packed Dollies clearly shine when they get sped up, but to be honest, I don't see that a lot (with the exception of Mondays, when people get the "escort 10 dollies for weekly"). Perhaps your observations are different. I've never seen any roamer in the past 7 years playing this game fail to kill an unguarded yak, whether it was on superspeed or not. So putting the speedy upgrade isn't freeing up players to do more useful yaks. Packed yaks are superior to speedy yaks since you can speed boost the packed yak. Lastly, the author didn't even account for that yaks have respawn time after finishing their voyage. It's about 7-9 seconds to reset, which can quickly add up to several minutes longer than a packed yak who doesn't need to respawn as much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 minute ago, jul.7602 said: I've never seen any roamer in the past 7 years playing this game fail to kill an unguarded yak, whether it was on superspeed or not. So putting the speedy upgrade isn't freeing up players to do more useful yaks. Packed yaks are superior to speedy yaks since you can speed boost the packed yak. Lastly, the author didn't even account for that yaks have respawn time after finishing their voyage. It's about 7-9 seconds to reset, which can quickly add up to several minutes longer than a packed yak who doesn't need to respawn as much. It isn't about the yak kill, you created bait to get your own players killed versus them being more active and removing an asset from the other side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jul.7602 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 47 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said: It isn't about the yak kill, you created bait to get your own players killed versus them being more active and removing an asset from the other side. I don't get what you mean by bait? Players' decision to guard yaks have nothing to do with whether it was packed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 (edited) 10 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said: I would not be so harsh with the verdict concerning Speedy Dolyaks. Speed Dollies have a decent chance of being able to "run past" roamers and reach their destination, when they have their NPC caravan guards and are not slowed so much by enemy sentries. Packed Dollies clearly shine when they get sped up, but to be honest, I don't see that a lot (with the exception of Mondays, when people get the "escort 10 dollies for weekly"). Perhaps your observations are different. It is true that unguarded speedy dolyak might rarely survive from newbie roamers when packed wouldn't. But difference between which improvement to slot in should be more than "Emergency waypoint that lasts 30 seconds" and "Emergency waypoint that lasts 29 seconds but gives you 1% damage reduction for 10 seconds". Imagine if those were keep tactic choices to slot in. Camp improvements need small rework, where armored dolyaks become something useful and packed/speedy both need to specialize in upgrade speed or supply. Edited July 7 by Riba.3271 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviel.7493 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 It would be pretty embarrassing for an unguarded Speedy Yak to escape getting slapped, but I'm sure it's happened once or twice. Even if we say that's the benefit, there should still be some difference in base upgrade speed between Speedy and Packed. But it would probably be better to re-evaluate the whole system while we have the chance rather than pile more band-aids on. Yaks are a crucial part of WvW that, ostensibly, provide easily accessible content to all. This is somewhat undercut by the frequency of the event and relatively low stakes. Few veteran players will go out of their way to kill Yaks, but those who play too seriously will bounce back and forth slapping them at every opportunity. That leaves them in a weird place where they don't draw engagement but require a huge commitment if you do engage. There's probably an opportunity to make the supply relationship between camps and other objectives a little more structured--nothing too crazy, just something that can create a regional objective that's worth player's time. Once that's done, we can revisit tactics and hopefully create some with more nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 14 hours ago, jul.7602 said: I don't get what you mean by bait? Players' decision to guard yaks have nothing to do with whether it was packed or not. It is, players that see slow yaks, might look and see it as it I can aid that and escort it and speed it up, which makes them bait to enemy roamers. Don't feed your side to the other side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiral.3724 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Armored dolyaks tactic is useless. Needs to be reworked. Speedy and packed dolyaks are dependent on the distance from the camp to the tower/keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilightzone.7452 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 I was expecting Armour, got me in the first half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igmolicious.5986 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 On 7/8/2024 at 4:43 PM, Spiral.3724 said: Armored dolyaks tactic is useless. Needs to be reworked. Speedy and packed dolyaks are dependent on the distance from the camp to the tower/keep. Armored yaks should either get something like the old "retaliation" boon that damages the attackers (maybe for some portion of damage received) or gives them like 90% damage reduction + marks attackers like a sentry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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