The future of GW2 ?

[Francois.4582]

New players are leaving the game, old ones too... is gw2 becoming a game we avoid?
Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why? Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc.
Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it. In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority, I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve. Another example in wvw: the golems which are quite amusing and always cause a sensation among players are not available at "higher" level for purchase with wvw tokens.
Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers?

[Radiancee.6537]

1 hour ago, Francois.4582 said:

Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why?

This is completely normal and affects every other game out there. There are always many new players but only a portion will stay. Nothing special here and the population of Guild Wars 2 is very healthy, even bigger than ~ 3 years ago.

 

1 hour ago, Francois.4582 said:

Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me"

Asking for kp.me has nothing to do with toxicity. Calling someone or something "toxic" is such a overused thing nowadays. Something like killproof is completely normal for every game including stuff that requires skill. If the game doesn't offer it, the community will do it anyway. You should understand that there are people who just want to clear content with experienced people and not wasting time. And there are so many groups out there not asking for any kp at all.

Also, I rarely see any group exclusively asking for "kp.me". This is just the fastest option. If someone doesn't have kp.me, it's expected to just ping the killproof item in chat instead. I really don't know which "growing toxicity" you mean and what this has to do with killproof. This is an online game and you will always encounter some toxic people (which is not okay of course). Ignore and move on. Report if neccessary. But to be fair, Guild Wars 2 has one of the least toxic communities out there.

 

1 hour ago, Francois.4582 said:

Furthermore we also find the departure of former players

To make it short: People come and go. But maps are full, metas are running, pug runs (fractals, raids and strikes) are going on as always. And I always see new guilds, new raid statics, new people encountering end game content and while some former players may be gone, some are coming back to the game too.

To be honest, I have to say that your post sounds very much like confirmation bias.

Edited July 15 by Radiancee.6537

[Fueki.4753]

This is not a bug, this is normal.

Them slowly pruning the fun out of the game for some people, while increasing the fun for others has been going on since before the launch. This is nothing new. The developers can't make everyone happy.

As far as the future for the game is concerned, all we know is that they'll keep putting out yearly "mini" expansions for nearly the same price full expansions had before.

Edited July 15 by Fueki.4753

[DeanBB.4268]

10 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

New players are leaving the game, old ones too... is gw2 becoming a game we avoid?
Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why? Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc.
Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it. In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority, I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve. Another example in wvw: the golems which are quite amusing and always cause a sensation among players are not available at "higher" level for purchase with wvw tokens.
Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers?

Are there numbers involved in this claim somewhere, or are you just reporting what you've seen in your circle of friends | guild | whatever?

[Randulf.7614]

Yeah, where are these figures being shown? I'm seeing populated maps everywhere, so can you give us some hard, concrete numbers to show how many new players and older players are leaving?

 

[DeanBB.4268]

We're also a month+ from the next expansion dropping, and the WV rewards may be running thin for some, so now may be a good time to take a break?

[Fueki.4753]

Don't forget that the new expansion in FF14 just released, which likely took a chunk of the player base out of GW2, as well.

 

Edited July 15 by Fueki.4753

[kiroho.4738]

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

New players are leaving the game, old ones too...

Also new players stay at the game and old ones who left come back.
That's a totally normal behaviour within a game. Player try the game, some like it, some do not, some try it later and like it, some do not. Nothing special.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

is gw2 becoming a game we avoid?

Who is "we"?

In general GW2 is a very popular game, not avoided at all.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why?

Again, who is "we"?...

Are your "we" watching the newcoming and leaving players enough to make a representativ statement about it?

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc.

Ehm... what are you talking about?

I mean, just look where people require KPs (and therefore demand kp.me). Strike CMs, Raids and Fractal CMs.
None of these contents are visited by newcomers.
Your argument is invalid.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already,

Who is "we"? . . .

Compared to MMORPGs the bugs in GW2 are in a normal state.
Everyone who play an MMORPG knows that these games in general have more bugs than other games.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

gw2 is a collector's game

Is this something your "we" decided again?

GW2 has much variety, collecting is only one way to play the game.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority

Simply not true? Lol?
I have a lot of fun even without playing anythign "elite" related.

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve.

So you claim that the fun of the whole game disappeared and your only argument is the change of a single item?

 

11 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers?

No.

 

PS. Since OP doesn't respond to anyone, I guess this thread is just rage bait.

 

Edited July 15 by kiroho.4738

[Danikat.8537]

Is this on American servers? I've never been asked for KP (via a website or any other means) for fractals or strikes and while I've heard it can be a requirement for some raid groups I was able to find many that didn't ask, but it's been a while since I did raids so I'm not sure what the situation is now.

Also if a genuinely new player was worried about qualifying for raid or strike teams I'd recommend they try playing other things first, because neither is intended for new players. I've never heard of anyone getting stuck because they can't find a group that doesn't ask for KP, but I have met people who buy the game, use their level 80 boost and then assume they have to focus on group instances because they're trying to play GW2 like it's WoW or something, and those people end up constantly frustrated because so many things don't work the way they think it should and they don't understand why. Spending some time with the rest of the game will also give them opportunities to find a guild or otherwise meet people who can then help them with group instances.

[Zera.9435]

Yesterday, my guild got an influx of about 5 people that are either new or returning players. I have to disagree that it is a game to avoid. It is instead a game that can be selectively avoided to enjoy other games because you can come back at any time and continue right where you left off. Yes, 'ideally' people would play this game all day every day, but that's not realistic. Taking breaks is actually encouraged. I myself am on 'vacation' right now. I still log in everyday, mostly for dailies and guild mishies on the weekends, but I'm not actively working towards a particular goal. I lay around in Lion's Arch in that new beach chair and just chat with people. Vacation. Next month when JW comes out I'll be active again, and so will many others.

[Obnoxa.6702]

Calm down Chicken Little; it's fine to voice your own frustrations but let's not make grandiose claims of players leaving in droves over what you believe to be a lack of  'sensation' because you found out you couldn't by golems with wvw tokens (PS - they are a pita anyway, I hate the kittening things... and the word hidden behind kitten is most definitely NOT "amusing").
Do your maths, the game is pushing 12 years, there's going to be some ebb and flow of vets and some players who will try it and stay or try it and leave; I bought this game in December 2012 and I've heard "GW2 is dying!!!!1!111! The devs killed it!!1!111!!!hz! " since... also December 2012, but yet, here we all are.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game

Someone making a group is free to require whatever they want and I don't see any reason -or possibility- for it to change. If they want a group consisting of players wearing maid outfits for memes then that's fine. If they want a group consisting of experienced players then that's also fine. Not sure how anything about that is supposed to be "toxic".
Now with that aside, what you wrote here isn't even really true. I don't have a kpme account -intentionally making it the point to not create one- and have no issues pugging that content. Opening lfg now showed me 8 strike squads, 4 requiring KP at all, 0 requiring kpme. Out of 10 raid squads, 5 require KP at all and 0 required kpme (in both cases I'm not counting any "advertising" squads). I do know there are squads specifically listing "kp.me" requirement, but they're far into the minority of all of the squads. It's not that hard to just... join another one or make your own.

Well, actually this one might vary between the servers, who knows.

13 hours ago, Francois.4582 said:

Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it.

What exactly is this about?

Edited July 15 by Sobx.1758

[Danikat.8537]

It's important to remember anyone can start a group in LFG (or via any other method). If you don't see one you like you can create your own, with whatever requirements you like. You can put in whatever you think are appropriate qualifications to join, or say it's open to everyone.

If most groups are making impossible demands that only a minority of 'elite' players can meet then presumably groups with more reasonable requirements will be more popular.

[Dibit.6259]

Oh yes let's blame the "elite" gamers who have been spoiled with 2 fractals, 2 strikes and their corresponding cms in the last year or so. Totally out do the open world content brought out with the expansion. And how dare they take away the stealth and superspeed on that one ability, much worse than "elites" having to adjust/change their build when anet release a new patch!!!

Ok end of my sarcastic rant but I hope this helps to point out how delusional and ridiculous it is to blame a certain group of people for problems in game with little to no evidence, whether they be among the many or just you. Not to say that you haven't experienced some unpleasant people in game but it's unfair to generalise them into the same group.

The use of kp (not necessarily asking for kp account because people understand not everyone has one, but you can collect kp without using a kp account) is actually good for newcomers and experienced players because it stops time being wasted and people being overwhelmed.

Doing group content can be stressful if clear expectations aren't established. Like people looking to learn new content probably don't want to be expected to do x amount of dps or do x role etc, while experienced players wanting to complete content relevantly quickly and easily aren't expecting to teach newbies what to do and put more effort into doing dps etc to ensure a win.

Group content requires certain level of expectation and effort depending the end goal. Do you want to teach/learn content with others or just complete content in a certain amount of time/runs?

 

I don't think the idea of fun has left the minds of the developers, I think it's more of the case they are trying to change the way they create and present fun. Soto was their first mini expansion they created after their previous expansion models. Was it better? For some yes, other no. For me personally, I preferred Hot and Pof style but I'm also not completly against the new model. I think they need to do some work on how the develop and deliver, espically with story, which they are trying to work on based on the feedback they had with Soto.

Gw2 is lucky that it has been as popular as it has been and survived for 10+ years but it's now  competing more with other games it's hard to keep people's interest for an extended period. Yearly expansions was the best move to keep the playerbase coming back and being engaged but doesn't ensure they will remain during the down time, especially with people drifting more into instant gratification, reward and/or constant flow of new content with gaming.

 

Edited July 17 by Dibit.6259
Typos

[BatelGeuce.3591]

On 7/15/2024 at 6:59 AM, Francois.4582 said:

 for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc.

You see, you can be the change you want to see. Make your own groups with no KP requirements and spearhead this revolutionary movement.

[Ashen.2907]

Is a kill proof requirement really all that common outside of some raid groups? 

[Dibit.6259]

17 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Is a kill proof requirement really all that common outside of some raid groups? 

They do appear in lfg for fractals and strikes but they are not the majority. Low/no kp groups tend to fill faster so it can sometimes look like there are more of them

Edited July 17 by Dibit.6259

[Danikat.8537]

35 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Is a kill proof requirement really all that common outside of some raid groups? 

I don't know how it is on the NA servers but on EU I can't remember ever seeing KP requirements for Fractals or strikes and a few years ago when I tried getting into raiding I found a lot of groups (both PUG and training groups) which didn't ask.

[Ashen.2907]

Thank you Dibit and Danikat. I've seen KP groups but they seemed to be a smallish minority.

I am not sure that its a problem for new players to not be able to get into experienced, challenge mode or the like, groups right away. I wouldn't want to join a group going for speed or CM in content that I don't know yet. I get anxious any time I feel like I am not able to pull my weight and so make a point of joining training runs, or even just chill runs, to learn the ins and outs before going for more serious groups.

Edited July 17 by Ashen.2907

[Randulf.7614]

39 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't know how it is on the NA servers but on EU I can't remember ever seeing KP requirements for Fractals or strikes and a few years ago when I tried getting into raiding I found a lot of groups (both PUG and training groups) which didn't ask.

I see KP for strikes every day on EU. It’s very common there. Beyond that and raids it’s quite isolated

[Dibit.6259]

29 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Thank you Dibit and Danikat. I've seen KP groups but they seemed to be a smallish minority.

I am not sure that its a problem for new players to not be able to get into experienced, challenge mode or the like, groups right away. I wouldn't want to join a group going for speed or CM in content that I don't know yet. I get anxious any time I feel like I am not able to pull my weight and so make a point of joining training runs, or even just chill runs, to learn the ins and outs before going for more serious groups.

Best advice I can give to those wanting to learn or practise is to join a guild. I joined a few different ones over a few years for different difficult levels and got to the point I can do most cms in fractals, raids and strikes. Experienced players are usually open to train newbies but only when they specify it being a training group. It does also require a certain level of commitment of learning builds, rotations, mechanics etc, especially in the harder content.

 

Also you're welcome 👍

Edited July 17 by Dibit.6259

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I see KP for strikes every day on EU. It’s very common there. Beyond that and raids it’s quite isolated

Are those strike CMs or are people actually asking for KP for normal strikes?

[Surelia.2651]

On 7/14/2024 at 9:59 PM, Francois.4582 said:

New players are leaving the game, old ones too... is gw2 becoming a game we avoid?
Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why? Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc.
Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it. In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority, I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve. Another example in wvw: the golems which are quite amusing and always cause a sensation among players are not available at "higher" level for purchase with wvw tokens.
Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers?

Not sure what you are confused about here.   The short answer to your question is: "No."

I have, for example, had my account here since beta.  I have played other MMOs at the same time as GW2 over the years, and at different times only played here.  Tons of other GW2 players do the same.  Then there are tons that only play GW2.  After 12 years, you cannot expect the game to not have ebb and flow.  That's just the nature of MMOs. 

As for the apparent "elite" segments you seem fixated on as being representative of the entire game and its players - they are not.  There are plenty of things to do in all game modes that can be done solo and/or with literally hundreds of guilds that don't ask you for kp, etc.  I mean, I basically have only one guild I ever do group things with because I just enjoy hanging out with them in discord and they are friendly peeps; the rest of the time I find its just super easy to pug things at my own pace.  Even pug raids, as I recently discovered, are not an issue - they just take more time... lmao!

Lastly, we are in summer right now and in an obvious ramp up to a new expansion in August.  People are out and about in RL taking advantage of the content lull before they dive into the next new thing.  That is also typical of every MMO I have ever played.  Taking a break is not the same as "avoiding the game."  Chill

Edited July 17 by Surelia.2651
spelling

[Randulf.7614]

49 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Are those strike CMs or are people actually asking for KP for normal strikes?

If I'm honest I'm not 100%, but likely CM if I base it off todays runs and LFG. Person I quoted didn't specify either way though

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Are those strike CMs or are people actually asking for KP for normal strikes?

It's for cms. There might be some occasional nm kp but it's really rare and rather useless.