Detection Skills...

[Shagie.7612]

maybe instead start with making revealed activate on block/dodge instead of just giving the player a do over
and then probably do something about decent thieves who time pressing axe 3 0.0001s after stealth falls off and then immediately black powder + bounding with little to no counterplay

and probably look at Shadow Arts because it's one of the most nutso traitlines around lol

those would probably be easier and more realistic to happen than a stealth rework at this point in the game's life

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Does boon rip lock any profession out of their mechanic? No? Then it's not nearly the same.
Stealth could be better balanced "around itself", for example: no stacking in-combat (so you still potentially have that ambush opener fantasy) and automatically applied reveal after every time the player goes out of stealth (duration similar to the current one, except currently the player needs to deal damage while in stealth to have the reveal effect applied). What that does: harder to reset fights through stealth stacking the moment something goes wrong and clearer opportunity windows where the stealth user can at most weave in and out of stealth every few seconds for a few seconds. Because of the forced reveal, there's no cheesing the mechanic by applying stealth right when it ends either.

The purpose for boon rip is not the same, only the community's apparent disdain for its continued nerfs into relative scarcity. 
Preventing stealth chains and forcing revealed after every instance of stealth is a great idea. I like this plan. I'm excited to be a part of it. Let's do it!

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 8/3/2024 at 6:17 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

maybe instead start with making revealed activate on block/dodge instead of just giving the player a do over
and then probably do something about decent thieves who time pressing axe 3 0.0001s after stealth falls off and then immediately black powder + bounding with little to no counterplay

and probably look at Shadow Arts because it's one of the most nutso traitlines around lol

those would probably be easier and more realistic to happen than a stealth rework at this point in the game's life

Just looked over the trait lines, maker almighty there is some busted stuff in here.

Shadow's Embrace shouldnt exist, condis should be a natural counter to stealth as you can dot people even when stealthed and Cloaked in Shadow just feels like a kitten move.
Meld with Shadows also seems pretty overtuned, really stops any chance of catching or catching up, especially when Relic of the Unseen Invasion exists as well, do these stack?

[mirage.8046]

2 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Just looked over the trait lines, maker almighty there is some busted stuff in here.

Shadow's Embrace shouldnt exist, condis should be a natural counter to stealth as you can dot people even when stealthed and Cloaked in Shadow just feels like a kitten move.
Meld with Shadows also seems pretty overtuned, really stops any chance of catching or catching up, especially when Relic of the Unseen Invasion exists as well, do these stack?

shadow arts' rework was *supposed* to harmonize with specter's support and traits, but the changes enabled slippery thief builds as always. (who should be surprised?) by buffing the core class, it ends up affecting every possible build for that class.

yes they do stack, like with rifle deadeye + silent scope + shadow arts. after you dodge, you endlessly have superspeed and stealth with your rifle equipped (and occasionally give superspeed to allies). specter, ironically meant to be slow-going unlike core thief, can extend mobility for itself and its allies, provided the specter has lots of stealth access or has allies who can stealth.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 8/2/2024 at 12:32 AM, Funky.4861 said:

It amuses me how people fixate on 'reveal' as the counter to stealth when the REAL COUNTER is aoe skills. Besides, not every class and spec has to hard-counter stealth because not every class has the same level of access to it.

If you're fighting a thief and they stealth they will do one of two things:

a) run away to reset and possibly re-engage

b) set up a backstab/deaths judgment etc.

What are your options? Hang around in the open like a moron or find some cover maybe? How about going on your merry way knowing that they might return and that your skills will also have come off cooldown? Just because you're fighting a thief and they stealth doesn't mean it's the end of the world or that you've automatically lost/you're going to die in a few secs- use your brain!

I was about to say “how many of those especs rely on single target damage?”. And how many stealth builds aren’t glassy?  

The only major threat with stealth was the scrapper stealth gyro being able ro hide a whole group on the move… and thats been nerfed enough times as is. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Path of fire was released in 2017 in September, which introduced Deadeye.

 

Only about a few month ago, Anet finally got rid of Deadeye's elite skill able to remove the reveal debuff to itself and instantly stealth back. It took Anet about 6 years to realize how busted it is to be able to counter the thing that actually counters you.

 

So when it comes to stealth, unless someone who has power in their team reaches enlightement, they will never bother to fix it nor make any attempt to offer more counterplay. This applies to teleportation as well. WvW is filled with exploit only doable by Thief because of their excessive mobility through teleportation or sword 2.

 

If tomorrow Anet tells me they will be disabling Thief from WvW and buffing them in PvE, I will see this as a W at this point. 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Thieves that use macros are lame.

Now, on to the main topic 😆. I run into black powder thieves more than any other thief. They just keep stealthing over and over again, even when they can't beat me 1v1, they'll just harass over and over again as much as they can. If their hp gets low, run away and come back to rinse and repeat. They become a ghost, always there, nothing you can do about it. If you have the better build or skills, it doesn't matter because they get to harass you until they're satisfied.

[Jski.6180]

Most then likely they need to make revieal skills (call it something else) into non boon strips stealth auras super speed maybe even stacese and make animations show on stealth as soft counters.

[Kulvar.1239]

The solution is not adding revealing to everyone, the solution is a stealth rework so it is not spammed, then rebalance Thief around that new fact.

Edited August 15 by Kulvar.1239

[Jski.6180]

22 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

The solution is not adding revealing to everyone, the solution is a stealth rework so it is not spammed, then rebalance Thief around that new fact.

I think adding in more effective soft counters would go a long way to balancing stealth. Aoe is not "big" enofe to be a true soft counter to stealth that it should be. By letting skill show an genarla ideal of where some one is would do a LOT for balancing.

So revealing is not needed but it also should be more then just stealth as that would be too small of use for an rare effect/skill.

[ascii.1369]

I mean honestly, I would just make it so that leaving stealth while in combat applies revealed (at least in competitive). That would result in a 3-4 second cd on stealth whenever you leave it regardless of why it ends.

And before thiefs get their panties in a bunch, of course specs would be rebalanced around this new version of revealed.