Necro Spear...

[ShadowX.6348]

This weapon could have had much more potential.
If you agree with my suggestions, please consider the following changes that should be implemented.

• Skill 1: should have added a Range Throwing Attack, 3 Targets, Range 900, Cast 0.75 sec.
  The Chain Attacks Dark Slash, Deadly Slice and Sinister Stab, Range increase to 170, and only activate the chain attacks when in melee.  
  For short, it should work as Ranger Skill 1 Spear.
• Skill 3:  Addle, should have the range increase to 170.
• Skill 4:  Distress, should have Fear on teleport.
• Skill 5:  Extirpate, should have Weakness and Remove 3 conditions insted of the Boons negate.

Those are my suggestions, that i think it should be implemented.
All Classes should have the Spear Skill 1 a Range attack!

Edited yesterday at 12:21 AM by ShadowX.6348

[Sigmoid.7082]

19 minutes ago, ShadowX.6348 said:

Those are the changes that must be implemented!

I disagree. What you want is a completely different weapon, not what Anet is trying to do with spear. Spear is never going to be what you're asking here.

[Jobber.6348]

Necro spear seems to make it count as a sustain weapon, that much is clear. It has amazing damage and burst sustain, even without Reaper or Relic of Zakiros. 

Question is why we have another sustain weapon after Swords. Swords does have sustain, albeit lesser but neither does it have the same gameplay flow of Spear. The one thing Swords do absolutely better is being able to kite enemies, but if you just want a weapon to sustain with, Spear and even Dagger are superior at actually keeping you in the fight topped up and good to go. 

I welcome Spear to the Necro's arsenal, but I resent the fact it's another power weapon which also lifesteals, right after we received Swords. If possible, I would have wished at least Swords or Spear to be a Condi weapon, or Condi Reaper capable via Blind or Chill application. 

Anyway, talking about its good points:

Amazing cleaving, with autos generating many Soul shards via the cleave. Burst is also pretty cute, an alternative to Greatsword if enemies are above 50% HP and you aren't primed to just hold down 2 and fall asleep. Very good Lifeforce generation as well. 

Get into combat > Spear 5 > Spear 4 > Spear 3 > Spear 2 > Spear 4 recast > Spear 2 again > weapon swap/shroud 

Great burst and sustain and quite enjoyable, especially when fighting the pesky Titans who just spawn in massive bunches. 

Oh also one neat little thing: 

Spear 4 recast is a free action with no cast time. You know what that means. Spear 4 > precast CTTB > Spear 4 recast. Bam boom. 
 

Edited August 21 by Jobber.6348

[Asum.4960]

I still don't like it. 

It's still just shorter range Dagger (Damage + Sustain) with Core Shroud's Dark Path slapped onto it, which I don't like as a skill there, and I don't like it here.

Even more so as part of a DPS rota for the Perforate reset, after Sword I'm tired of double tap spamming skills. The game is getting increasingly spammy enough already without this.

The skills feel slow and floaty, and are lacking impact. Sometimes even literally so, with their hitbox being really awkward and just missing.

The ranges being all over the place feels really awkward to me, especially for the AA and Addle. 130 -> 300 -> 130 -> 1200 -> 240 just doesn't work for me. I also still keenly remember This Patch where Anet changed all these ranges of non-AA skills to be a "standard multiple of 60". Yet here we are with 130 on Addle, rather than the 180 or 240 of GS's Gravedigger and Death Spiral. On a Two-Handed Spear no less. The skill feels terrible. (I know ANet does it's own thing and weapons are magic, etc., but that out of Greatsword, Sword, Axe, Dagger and Spear, the Spear has the shortest range is wild to me).

The AA, I agree, should have either been a Melee/Range mix like many other Professions got or be 240-300 range. If Isolate misses, the kit comes to a complete stand still (and ironically, it's awful to play with in the new content especially, with all the melee hate AoE Boon-Corruption fields going on). 

Isolate, at worst, should have worked like (hostile) Merciful Intervention, Perforate CD reset and Soul Shard gain on single press, plus Shadowstep if aimed over Enemy. At best, probably should have just been a 900 range free aim Shadowstep. 

Addle should have been 300 range Daze + Extirpate's Boon Removal and Prevention debuff (or a Phantasmal Lancer like quick dash), and the 5 should have been some defensive option, like a Block - maybe something like Crystal Hibernation, getting shielded in bone, or alternatively something like Ring of Warding, trapping enemies in a Bone Prison. Just something, anything  cool and new for Necro.

Least importantly visually, the skill art - it doesn't fit Necromancer, even more so than Pistol. The colours are off, too neon, the lines are too clean, etc. But after Harb with Pistol and the Elixir Placeholder Art, I guess we don't have Skill Art standards anymore. The effects, like the huge Poison Cloud Distress spawns, don't match the skill effects.

Overall, just as in the Beta, I just don't know what to do with this thing. I use it because it's new, but between Greatsword, Dagger MH, Swords and Axe - there is zero niche for this thing, nothing I'm excited to combine it with, no new use-case or anything that comes to mind. 

It's just another especially GS/Dagger/Axe like Strike Damage tool. Sword/Sword was boring and annoying with it's flip over stuff - but at least it brought proper weapon based mobility with Sword 3, and a Strike Damage off-hand that doesn't completely suck in PvE with it (even if these would have been better as Dagger 3 and Focus reworks). 

Necro Spear, to me, does nothing to justify it's existence - and I'd trade it off for something like Rev Spear in green in an instant.

Edited August 23 by Asum.4960

[Apokriphos.7042]

I’ve thoroughly tested the spear in WvW after the recent updates, both solo and in organized group play.

They did introduce some life force generation and a modest might boost on skill 5, but these changes are hardly enough to make the spear competitive. Compared to the Greatsword and Axe/Focus combos, the spear is far worse, especially in burst scenarios when you want to hit a moving target. When it comes to mobility, the spear is especially bad—you just can't keep pace with enemies when they start kiting you. Additionally, the spear skill 4 throw is obvious and slow. It is still easily dodged, and when your enemy knows you will use this, and as its the only ranged part of the kit, they DEFINITELY will, it will get dodged by any competent player, or simply avoided.

The instant-cast teleport skill is another major issue. It lacks any defensive utility, which means you’re left completely exposed when you port to an enemy. This often results in getting obliterated before you can capitalize on the gap-closing maneuver, as you 'bring your bag to them'. Even more surprising is that the spear's overall DPS is lower than other niche weapons, making it a poor choice for sustained damage. I was shocked to find that ArcDps rated axe/focus & dagger/focus as higher dps over a 1v1 fight. 

Finally, they’ve nerfed the boon removal on skill 5 from *** three boons down to two***, making it even less rewarding. The Extirpate boon inhibition ability still gets eaten up by 3 stacks of might, making that part pointless as well.

 

All in all, these changes have made the spear a useless option for most situations in WvW.

Edited August 21 by Apokriphos.7042

[ShadowX.6348]

1 hour ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

I disagree. What you want is a completely different weapon, not what Anet is trying to do with spear. Spear is never going to be what you're asking here.

Of course i cant force Anet to make any changes. But the steel is hot, and we must hit it. So i try, cause i dont want to have another greatsword... i mean whats great about the greatsword? the name should indicate it, but no, we got an AA thats 130 range, and it should have been at least 200 range, its a 2 handed sword, it should have better range then a dagger, and ofc they wont change it, cause no one cares about it any more, and i dont want this Spear to be the same, this is new, and we must act.  

[ShadowX.6348]

2 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Get into combat > Spear 5 > Spear 4 > Spear 3 > Spear 2 > Spear 4 recast > Spear 2 again > weapon swap/shroud

As far as i know, Spear 5 has only 240 range, and the max range some skills have are 1200, so entering combat casting Spear 5 first without any enemy in range its just a waste of key pressing. And without anything to kite, till  you get in range with melee, you can only use Spear 4, but its easy dodgeble. And even if you land the fist skill of Spear 4, and after you teleport you can easly be stunned before you use your Spear 3 to stun them, ofc it would be great if we got a Stability Boon when we teleport, but i think that could be too much. And Ofc the second ability of Skill 4 resets the cooldown of Skill 2, but if you miss the Skill 4, you have nothing to kite or close the gap and the enemy doesnt spawn near you so you can hit.

Edited August 21 by ShadowX.6348

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, ShadowX.6348 said:

Of course i cant force Anet to make any changes. But the steel is hot, and we must hit it. So i try, cause i dont want to have another greatsword... i mean whats great about the greatsword? the name should indicate it, but no, we got an AA thats 130 range, and it should have been at least 200 range, its a 2 handed sword, it should have better range then a dagger, and ofc they wont change it, cause no one cares about it any more, and i dont want this Spear to be the same, this is new, and we must act.  

The steel was hot, during the beta feedback. People gave pretty much the same feedback your giving now. The fact that is the case and those changes still didn't make any sort of appearance is more than telling that they aren't going to change the identity of the weapon. It even was mentioned in one of the streams they did with creators and that it feels different enough from great sword while being in the same vein they are completely happy with. 

Further more the changes you suggested wouldn't actually solve the main issues people seem to have with the weapon. It would fundamentally have the same issues just apply some poison. I get people want a melee condi weapons but from how I see it spear isn't going to be it. Though hopefully it will be what is next.

Edited August 21 by Sigmoid.7082

[Asum.4960]

53 minutes ago, ShadowX.6348 said:

Of course i cant force Anet to make any changes. But the steel is hot, and we must hit it. 

Let me stop you there - when it comes to Anet, give Feedback to get it out of your system, not because you have any shred of hope for actual change. 

There are many good things to be said about Anet, but they are absolutely horrible about listening to and onboarding feedback, most of all the Skill&Balance team. If something changes, it does so because a Dev someday felt like it, not because of any amount or duration of feedback. 

They don't read, respond to or address even issues universally reported in official feedback threads, not in Betas, not in years after release. You get what they give you, no matter how bad, pointless or broken. Unless it breaks something in the players favour, it won't get iterated on or fixed. 

[ShadowX.6348]

3 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

The steel was hot, during the beta feedback. People gave pretty much the same feedback your giving now. The fact that is the case and those changes still didn't make any sort of appearance is more than telling that they aren't going to change the identity of the weapon. It even was mentioned in one of the streams they did with creators and that it feels different enough from great sword while being in the same vein they are completely happy with. 

 

Further more the changes you suggested wouldn't actually solve the main issues people seem to have with the weapon. It would fundamentally have the same issues just apply some poison. 

I gived my opinion on Beta too, And ofc some aspects were dealt with. And i know they wont do a revamped or major change. Its not just some poison. What i try to do here, is to make a Hybrid, power and condi, range and melee. It will still be a power weapon, just with AA kite poison,  Deadly Slice and Sinister Stab will be the same. And for Skill 4 Distress could add 1 sec immunity after teleport and condi remove. And just a simple support buff of Regen on Skill 5. But i still try, not only for me, for others too. 

[ShadowX.6348]

9 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Let me stop you there - when it comes to Anet, give Feedback to get it out of your system, not because you have any shred of hope for actual change. 

There are many good things to be said about Anet, but they are absolutely horrible about listening to and onboarding feedback, most of all the Skill&Balance team. If something changes, it does so because a Dev someday felt like it, not because of any amount or duration of feedback. 

They don't read, respond to or address even issues universally reported in official feedback threads, not in Betas, not in years after release. You get what they give you, no matter how bad, pointless or broken. Unless it breaks something in the players favour, it won't get iterated on or fixed. 

Well.. im gona make my own game then 😓

[ShadowX.6348]

But still, i would be happy if the Skill 1 AA would work like Revenant has.
A 600 range attack throwing spear with a stack of poison. 
And then it would be the 2 Chain skills Deadly Slice and Sinister Stab with their respective tooltips, soul shards etc.
It would be nice to have the animation of Dark Slash for the Deadly Slice, and the name combined like, Deadly Slash. 
So the first skill would be range Throwing skill ( Dark Spike, why not),  and the Chain skills Deadly Slash and Sinister Stab would only start when the enemy is in 170 range. 
But ofc, it probably wont happend, cause its "my deam weapon" 😇☁️
So i invite you to tell about your dream weapon as well, cause apparently we are in the realm of dreams. ☁️😊😋

Edited August 21 by ShadowX.6348

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, ShadowX.6348 said:

As far as i know, Spear 5 has only 240 range, and the max range some skills have are 1200, so entering combat casting Spear 5 first without any enemy in range its just a waste of key pressing. And without anything to kite, till  you get in range with melee, you can only use Spear 4, but its easy dodgeble. And even if you land the fist skill of Spear 4, and after you teleport you can easly be stunned before you use your Spear 3 to stun them, ofc it would be great if we got a Stability Boon when we teleport, but i think that could be too much. And Ofc the second ability of Skill 4 resets the cooldown of Skill 2, but if you miss the Skill 4, you have nothing to kite or close the gap and the enemy doesnt spawn near you so you can hit.

I'm talking about combat rotation which assumes you are already in close range. Wasting Spear 4 recast in close range wastes a Spear 2 reset. Clearly we're talking about different combat situations so I'll clarify: 

In combat, PvE, against bosses or packs of enemies. 

Edited August 21 by Jobber.6348

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Compared to beta, they did at least fix the life force and soul shard issues the weapon had.  It does have good burst damage and healing, which is probably their intent, but actually landing said damage is another story due to it all being so reliant on landing Isolate.

[Apokriphos.7042]

I couldn't help but notice someone added a 'confused' emote to all the critical feedback about the Necromancer Spear. I'm genuinely curious—what's got you puzzled? Would love to hear your thoughts! 🤔

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

It just doesn't feel good and the only thing it has over greatsword is the sustain (which reaper doesn't even need anyway)

[felincyriac.5981]

From an spvp perspective

 

the 3 is so short range, its quite easy to miss

the 5 needs to do something, the boon removal/block effect is laughably bad

I'm not sure what they were thinking when designing a melee weapon with no defences. The ranged warrior spear has 2 evades bruh

All pieces of feedback that multiple people posted after the beta, oh well. I guess its another weapon to farm gold players with.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It could get a tweak on #4. Could be nice to have a teleport without any target ;  you throw the weapon in front of you and can teleport on location.
# 3 could be an aoe too, or a spread 170 range.

[Ferril.8109]

I'd love if 1&3 got bumped up to at least 300 range. It's so easy to miss while dodging in and out. Especially with these new condi happy mobs. Also like the idea of 4 being a ground target instead of a single target skill. That'd give a ton more mobility to spear. Otherwise, the life-force changes are excellent! Just a couple more tweaks and this could be an outstanding weapon! I'm playing a life-leech build and it's so fun in OW.

[Dreamonology.8362]

decent for power harb in pvp, greatsword still worlds better in wvw zerg,  lack luster for roaming. pve pretty sure greatsword still better.

[Lahmia.2193]

It feels like such an odd addition. Like, most other professions got some niche filled whereas we just got The Force Awakens of weapons.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Been messing around trying to figure out where Spear is best and while I don't have any DPS numbers to rely on (my computer does not like ARCdps on the best of days), where it feels best to play is crazily Power Scourge.  Using Sandstorm Shroud, it's really easy to get back to back to back Perforates.  It might actually work out for tanking on heal scourge or even letting you do alacdps on Power favored fights like Q1.  Garish Pillar and Addle work well together to keep the new Relic of the Claw at full uptime.

[Doggie.3184]

It just feels boring.

[ShadowX.6348]

13 hours ago, Ferril.8109 said:

I'd love if 1&3 got bumped up to at least 300 range.

Thats what i said in Beta too, Skill 1 and 3 should have at least 240 range, and other improvements for the rest of skills.

[felincyriac.5981]

skill 3 could be unblockable if they really wanted to juice it, I mean it fits when trying to interrupt channelled block, it does very little damage anyway

put some stab on the 4 when you port it? Or some kind of defensive 

boon corrupt on 5 instead? Removal is too low impact for such a big investment 

Edited August 22 by felincyriac.5981