Spellbreaker is not healthy for PvP Scene

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, aelska.4609 said:

I'd be happy if they make Full-Counter CCable. Just that and see where it goes. 

If it was working like a dark souls parry I'd be okay for it to also negate CC, but here the time-window is too large for the effects to be that rewarding.

Strictly speaking, if you have the window to do so, the initial blocking stance that absorbs the attack that then triggers the counter attack only negates strike damage. If you use a boon corrupt when the spellbreaker is in that stance you'll convert the stability into fear. That of course requires playing a spec that has access to boon corrupts, and the stability to not be fully buried under a plethora of boons. Yes, I have in fact done this to spellbreakers when playing my necro. 

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

16 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It is subsisting off of aegis, stability, and resistance. Rip or corrupt them (unblockable ones for aegis of course).  Increasing the number of corrupts and rips has the benefit of pulling builds that rely on certain boons in line without having to actually nerf them.

Part of the problem right now in both competitive modes is the degree that CMC and Roy have pushed down corrupts and rips.

The stability is either pulsing (balanced stance, rampage) or with such a low cd (fc) that removing it does NOTHING. Get real.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/23/2024 at 5:56 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Spb is annoying to fight, but Its the only warrior spec that's viable.

Unviable without Spb, like how unviable WB is in MAT? Or how unviable like a Holo?

I've seen off-meta War builds and it's not as unviable as people may believe.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The stability is either pulsing (balanced stance, rampage) or with such a low cd (fc) that removing it does NOTHING. Get real.

You will note that I am very vocal about adding in more rips and corrupts. Welcome to part of the reason.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You will note that I am very vocal about adding in more rips and corrupts. Welcome to part of the reason.

You DO realize boonrips do nothing against pulsing boons because they get reapplied immediately, right?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You DO realize boonrips do nothing against pulsing boons because they get reapplied immediately, right?

1) Rip then CC before the reapplication interval. People have good enough reflexes to manage that within a 1s pulse.

2) If you have the option of corrupts, you now have more fear access with each pulse that you corrupt.

Admittedly, a portion of my brain thinks like a necro, so whenever I see pulsing stab I laugh at the free CC chain that they just gave me when on my necro.

[aymnad.9023]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

1) Rip then CC before the reapplication interval. People have good enough reflexes to manage that within a 1s pulse.

unless one of the 2 is instant no. You have casting time and sometimes aftercast that you have to time in this 1s window

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

unless one of the 2 is instant no. You have casting time and sometimes aftercast that you have to time in this 1s window

You time the rip for when the one reapplication procs, then use your 3/4s or less cast time CC afterwards.

[ArthurDent.9538]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Unviable without Spb, like how unviable WB is in MAT? Or how unviable like a Holo?

I've seen off-meta War builds and it's not as unviable as people may believe.

WB did just win the EU mat, just saying. Also to the french team was running double core warriors, didn't win but that's a team that wins frequently so they thought it was viable.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You time the rip for when the one reapplication procs, then use your 3/4s or less cast time CC afterwards.

You do understand that even with a full boonrip mesmer this is NOT doable, do you?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

40 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You do understand that even with a full boonrip mesmer this is NOT doable, do you?

I've done it as a spellbreaker against other spellbreakers, so I have faith in you.

[Myror.7521]

@Saiyan.1704 it might be not as unvariable but at least to me the only reason why im playing spellbreaker is cause its the nearest spec to core warrior xd

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've done it as a spellbreaker against other spellbreakers, so I have faith in you.

Dagger burst is an unblockable boonrip, I don't think there are many of them. And it doesn't work always in case more boons proc after the FC stab. So kinda meh to bring the mirror into the discussion.

Technically there is sigil of revocation (remove boon on damage dealt, 10 sec ICD), I fought one SPB that really wrecked me with it (as I'm conditioned to FC into opponent FC going off). But that would only work against evade heavy SPBs (i.e. str buids), which isn't the case for the defense SPB builds. But for this particular duel, since you don't land dmg most of the time; you have easy to dodge abilities, I dodge them, eventually I FC into your FC and the 1 dmg from your FC boonrips the stab, then I get interrupted.

Generally the way to deal with FC is to not get hit by the retaliation. If you want to interrupt a mending that the SPB is hiding behind a FC, you'd have to time it pretty good (i.e. the 0.5 sec window after the stab expires), ripping the stab and interrupting is probably not a good option for most builds (unless its like thief that has that in one ability, or necro with corrupts). Ofc if the SPB pops defiant stance there is no interval for the interrupt since the stab will cover it completely. But if you attack into that its really your own mistake.

Overall the issue with defense + staff + defiant stance on SPB is that it just lives for too long. Against it, you'll eventually make mistakes and you'll die. If the SPB is any good ofc.

Though Terrorhuz expects to 1v1 a SPB on power mesmer and/or deadeye so overall kinda meh discussion.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

36 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Though Terrorhuz expects to 1v1 a SPB on power mesmer and/or deadeye

I never expected to 1v1 a spellbreaker, I would just expect a 2v1 to be enough, instead of seeing teams committing 3 people to a single spellbreaker with no effect because the vermin is cycling through 16 million evade frames.

[Myror.7521]

@Terrorhuz.4695 me who remembers get perma stunlocked against you on my warr without having any Chance xd.

 

No for real i played Defence spellbreaker meta on todays weekly.....Bro is it boring xD. I did 3v1 against a mAT top favorite team and was never playing that build defore .... surely it can be balanced right? xD

[Hotride.2187]

9 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I never expected to 1v1 a spellbreaker, I would just expect a 2v1 to be enough, instead of seeing teams committing 3 people to a single spellbreaker with no effect because the vermin is cycling through 16 million evade frames.

That is fine then, yeah, agreed on it taking 10 years to kill.

[Codename T.2847]

Just dont hit into full counter 4head

[Terrorhuz.4695]

13 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

me who remembers get perma stunlocked against you on my warr without having any Chance xd

I do stunlock people in 1v1, but

• the build you faced is hardcountered by conditions and\or unblockables (incidentally, the meta spec is condi reaper, which has plenty of both)
• the build you faced crumbles like sand in 1v2 (I can be focused easily and I WILL die)

I recently switched to a spear variant which has even less defensives (no shield block); damage through the roof, and I do stunlock people, but the build isn't nearly as durable as a spellbreaker. Not even close.

[WingSwipe.3084]

Outright nerfing SPB into oblivion as was done to Bladesworn isnt the answer.

Redistributing the power/defence budged away from SPB into core traits is the solution here.

It would bring SPB down a fair notch and bring other warrior builds up in relevance.

The thing that worries me here is that we go from one build that is S-tier and others that are D-/C-tier, down to every warrior build being reliably C-/B-tier when every other profession have reliable A-/S-tier builds overall.

Also, can we get some life support to Bladesworn, by Balthazars blazing balls that kitten got straight nerfed out of the game. Havent seen a BSW player in months on the PvP scene.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Outright nerfing SPB into oblivion as was done to Bladesworn isnt the answer.

Redistributing the power/defence budged away from SPB into core traits is the solution here.

It would bring SPB down a fair notch and bring other warrior builds up in relevance.

The thing that worries me here is that we go from one build that is S-tier and others that are D-/C-tier, down to every warrior build being reliably C-/B-tier when every other profession have reliable A-/S-tier builds overall.

Also, can we get some life support to Bladesworn, by Balthazars blazing balls that kitten got straight nerfed out of the game. Havent seen a BSW player in months on the PvP scene.

The goal would be to shift things out of the Spellbreaker traitline and into other traitlines. That way Spellbreaker could take most of what was redistributed and remain A-/S-tier while the other specs can be A-/B-/C-tier.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Unviable without Spb, like how unviable WB is in MAT? .

About that...

Quote

I've seen off-meta War builds and it's not as unviable as people may believe

Pick one to elaborate on. 

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

About that...

Pick one to elaborate on. 

For me to elaborate or...?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

For me to elaborate or...?

The "About that" was in reference to willbenders having MAT win presence recently. 

Also yes, elaborate. Which warrior build outside of spellbreaker specs atm pulls enough weight for tourney presence in the current game state? 

Edited August 26 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The "About that" was in reference to willbenders having MAT win presence recently. 

Also yes, elaborate. Which warrior build outside of spellbreaker specs atm pulls enough weight for tourney presence in the current game state? 

Bonus points if they didn't use Discipline.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 8/25/2024 at 11:11 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Strictly speaking, if you have the window to do so, the initial blocking stance that absorbs the attack that then triggers the counter attack only negates strike damage. If you use a boon corrupt when the spellbreaker is in that stance you'll convert the stability into fear. That of course requires playing a spec that has access to boon corrupts, and the stability to not be fully buried under a plethora of boons. Yes, I have in fact done this to spellbreakers when playing my necro. 

 

I don't know why people are confused facing you. What you said is true.

Full Counter is NOT an invuln. It is an evade frame that briefly grants you 1 stab.

I've had many instances where I was trying to FC during a team fight on a node, and some AoE boon remove ripped the stab and something like a DH F1 pulled me out of FC.

But hey, this forum has always lived in a l2p complaint kind of environment. What you expect?