Problem with LCM Cereus Run Sales

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

So the primary way most people clear LCM Cereus is through sold runs, specifically through players running the 10 man instance legitimately and then when the boss hits 3% one of the players zones out, and the buyer zones in and the 9/10 players finish it off.  Zoning in a new player mid-fight should not be allowed, it deminimzes the accomplishments of those who did it legitimately as well as the title iteslf, (except for those few players that sell those 10 man runs and make money off it). I'm all for selling runs but its cheesy to swap people in mid fight, and it explains why so many people have this title, when clearly they did not earn it. (if you talk to most of them they know none of the mechanics).

I feel that if you are going to run someone you should beat it w/a 9/10 team and if that cant be done then the title just stays more prestigious and isnt sellable, which is clearly the case with LCM Cereus unless some crazy powercreep gets introduced.

 

Update: I added a poll because I'm curious to see what people think of this issue.

Edited August 28 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Zohane.7208]

8 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

So the primary way most people clear LCM Cereus is through sold runs, specifically through players running the 10 man instance legitimately and then when the boss hits 3% one of the players zones out, and the buyer zones in and the 9/10 players finish it off.  Zoning in a new player mid-fight should not be allowed, it deminimzes the accomplishments of those who did it legitimately as well as the title iteslf, (except for those few players that sell those 10 man runs and make money off it). I'm all for selling runs but its cheesy to swap people in mid fight, and it explains why so many people have this title, when clearly they did not earn it. (if you talk to most of them they know none of the mechanics).

I feel that if you are going to run someone you should beat it w/a 9/10 team and if that cant be done then the title just stays more prestigious and isnt sellable, which is clearly the case with LCM Cereus unless some crazy powercreep gets introduced.

I gotta say I don't really care either way; if someone wants to pay a wagonload of (legitimately obtained) gold for a purple title that pretty much no one cares about, fine by me.

[Noidea Incognito.9607]

People pay wagonloads of gold for all sorts of stuff already; tonics, infusions, equipment, materials, novelty..... this is just adding to that list 🤷‍♂️

Spoiler

(Ive checked a legit seller: they ask 1100 Mystic Coins(approx 1600-1800 gold) for the title.)

In the end it a "service" provided by players; for players. Everyone is free to do with their ingame gold how they please o7

Edited August 28 by Noidea Incognito.9607
I was asked not to give them bad idea's.

[Solvar.7953]

If they removed the ability to swap in, I imagine the sellers would just take that one person in at the start and carry them through the fight.  If that person buying the title dies, the other 9 can probably still finish the fight, it would just take longer.  It likely wouldn't remove people buying the title, just changes how they do it.

I personally don't consider anything within the game prestigious, since most anything can be bought.  I suppose the only way something could be truly prestigious might be if there was a solo person (instanced) content that was quite difficult, so that person had to actually do that content by themselves with no help.  But that sort of goes against the idea of an MMO.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

4 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

If they removed the ability to swap in, I imagine the sellers would just take that one person in at the start and carry them through the fight.  If that person buying the title dies, the other 9 can probably still finish the fight, it would just take longer.  It likely wouldn't remove people buying the title, just changes how they do it.

I personally don't consider anything within the game prestigious, since most anything can be bought.  I suppose the only way something could be truly prestigious might be if there was a solo person (instanced) content that was quite difficult, so that person had to actually do that content by themselves with no help.  But that sort of goes against the idea of an MMO.

you cant beat LCM Cereus with 9/10 players currently I have yet to see it, although it might be possible with the new spear meta powercreep maybe?  You run out of time due to the 10 minute time limit is what happens when you run 9/10 players.\

edit: guess you can beat it w./9 people.... so what?

Edited August 28 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Bleau.2469]

2 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

you cant beat LCM Cereus with 9/10 players currently I have yet to see it, although it might be possible with the new spear meta powercreep maybe?  You run out of time due to the 10 minute time limit is what happens when you run 9/10 players.

9 man LCM has already been done by several groups, even before spears were introduced (you just need really good virts, heralds/tempests, and cele scourge).  It's of course slightly easier now with the broken rev spear.

Edited August 28 by Bleau.2469

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

you cant beat LCM Cereus with 9/10 players currently I have yet to see it, although it might be possible with the new spear meta powercreep maybe?  You run out of time due to the 10 minute time limit is what happens when you run 9/10 players.

About that...

First result in YT btw and if you search for it in Google you'll also find atleast 2. Both of them are from before JW.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

About that...

First result in YT btw and if you search for it in Google you'll also find atleast 2. Both of them are from before JW.

 they beat it by 6 seconds lol, yah that sounds reliable, its also irrelevant if i was correct on that topic or not, since i acknowledged invetiable power creep so who cares. They need to make it so you cant invite people in while the fight is going, which is a separate subject anyways, you shouldn't be allowed to do that on any fight..

Edited August 28 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

 they beat it by 6 seconds lol, yah that sounds reliable, its also irrelevant if i was correct on that topic or not, since i acknowledged invetiable power creep so who cares. They need to make it so you cant invite people in while the fight is going, which is a separate subject anyways, you shouldn't be allowed to do that on any fight, When someone wipes on a fight whats stopping them from zoning out and bringing in a fresh player who's still alive?  Seems pretty game breaking to me.

You brought it up, you said it's not possible and might be possible in the future, both are wrong statements, it is relevant to the topic, because 9man LCM was mentioned as an alternative if people were not allowed to be invited into fights already going on. you were wrong with both parts of your statement even though it takes no effort to look up something to not make stupid comments. 
If a new player joins an instance for anything it's not game breaking, if that invited person could join in and be alive then it'd be gamebreaking. 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You brought it up, you said it's not possible and might be possible in the future, both are wrong statements, it is relevant to the topic, because 9man LCM was mentioned as an alternative if people were not allowed to be invited into fights already going on. you were wrong with both parts of your statement even though it takes no effort to look up something to not make stupid comments. 
If a new player joins an instance for anything it's not game breaking, if that invited person could join in and be alive then it'd be gamebreaking. 

wow you got me on a minor point thats  irrelevant to my post as I dont care if people do the fight 9/10 as I stated i think that paid runs that are 9/10 are fine. i guess my entire argument must be null and void now because I made a "stupid comment," is that what your point is? lol because letting people in instances where people are in combat is beyond cheesy..  I cant even think of another mmo that allows that.

Edited August 29 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Biziut.3594]

I don't care, if someone is willing to pay up for a shiny title it's a deal between them and the other players. I got my titles/achivs normal way, I know about it, and I couldn't care less what anyone else is thinking about it. It's only a silly game.

[maxwelgm.4315]

As long as sales are allowed, it should be able to be sold in that manner. Joining instances mid run is fine as you are dead on arrival upon joining, and would feel bad to enforce a waiting time to people who are doing things fully unrelated to selling.

Whether selling titles should be allowed could be a point here, but I don't think Anet cares about it after so many years of it happening so openly and consistently. Plus some completionist players have even bought the sPvP rank titles before which is definitely forbidden but goes to show you're not really going to stop people "minimizing" your legitimate achievement with a simple prohibition of joining an ongoing fight. Not that I think this is the case, I think the title is still cool to people who earned it legitimately - they know they earned it and that's like 90% enough, clout shouldn't be a thing you think too much about in some random online game anyway.

[Chyro.1462]

No. If you don't let players into instances that have an ongoing fight, it's going to have some bad side effects. Unless its specifically targeted at legendary mode. Some player has a dc or game crash during a strike, raid or fractal encounter? Well too bad, can't get back in unless everyone inside goes out of combat (which in many situations will be unlikely).

Let the rich waste their money on a purple shiny title that nobody cares about. Don't 'fix' a non-issue with a solution that can hurt many players in unrelated situations.

Edited August 29 by Chyro.1462

[Aaron Forestman.4758]

3 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

No. If you don't let players into instances that have an ongoing fight, it's going to have some bad side effects. Unless its specifically targeted at legendary mode. Some player has a dc or game crash during a strike, raid or fractal encounter? Well too bad, can't get back in unless everyone inside goes out of combat (which in many situations will be unlikely).

Let the rich waste their money on a purple shiny title that nobody cares about. Don't 'fix' a non-issue with a solution that can hurt many players in unrelated situations.

Correct, any "solution" to this would be more likely to hurt legitimate players. The only real solution here (since Anet has decided they won't do anything about it) is to block the scummy raid/strike sellers when you see them in the LFG, acknowledge that many people with these titles don't actually have any skills, and work to earn your own prestigious titles legitimately.

[Solvar.7953]

Best way to prevent the selling of these runs is to remove the special title it has.  If the title was the same color as all the other titles, I suspect the number of people buying runs would go down.

 

[Schimmi.6872]

7 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

No. If you don't let players into instances that have an ongoing fight, it's going to have some bad side effects. Unless its specifically targeted at legendary mode. Some player has a dc or game crash during a strike, raid or fractal encounter? Well too bad, can't get back in unless everyone inside goes out of combat (which in many situations will be unlikely).

Let the rich waste their money on a purple shiny title that nobody cares about. Don't 'fix' a non-issue with a solution that can hurt many players in unrelated situations.

Also you wouldn't be able to start a fight when someone of your group is a bit late, or while the group is still in the lfg, without the latecomers missing the kill / loot.

So no, I don't think this core mechanic of many instances should be changed, just because of one title, that would be sold anyway.

[Krzysztof.5973]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:16 PM, Schimmi.6872 said:

Also you wouldn't be able to start a fight when someone of your group is a bit late, or while the group is still in the lfg, without the latecomers missing the kill / loot.

So no, I don't think this core mechanic of many instances should be changed, just because of one title, that would be sold anyway.

Or when someone DCs and the squad is waiting for him to get back in to get the loot. 

Selling was here since Arah and it's not going anywhere unless they plan to start permabanning the "elite" players. Nothing of value will come of it. 

[Radiancee.6537]

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025699913-Policy-Buying-and-Selling-Runs

Quote

Ever since the original Guild Wars game, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of the community. These players will offer to carry or complete challenging game content in exchange for in-game items or gold, and we recognize that some players are not able to complete all content. Because of this, our official stance is that the selling or buying of runs is completely acceptable.

Nothing more to say. Also, as others pointed out, adding your so called "solution" would do more harm than good. For example; if someone in our static has a game crash, a pc crash or a disconnect - what now? Or we want to prestart a instanced pre event or boss fight early and one joins later - what now? Or if we are doing a low man raid and one member suddenly comes online and just wants to grab the encounter clear unscheduled, what now?

Edited September 1 by Radiancee.6537

[Cuks.8241]

This is a mmorpg. Buying in game services for in game stuff has always been a thing.

Players being "carried" by friends will always be a thing.  Having a better social network will always be an advantage.

Its the nature of these games. Navigating the social structures and the market is just as important as your skill (probably more important just like RL).

If you want fair game, dont play mmorpgs.

Edited September 1 by Cuks.8241

[Katary.7096]

I have always been of the opinion that groups who can clear content while having empty slots in their party/ squad should be allowed to sell these slots to people who are looking to buy a run/ boss kill. As such I agree with the OP that the alleged way in which ToF LCM is being sold is a problem. However, the proposed solution that players should be unable to join a strike mission instance while members of the squad inside the instance are in combat is doing more harm than good. The same is true for the suggestion that players cannot join a squad as long as squad members are in combat.

Fortunately there is a simple, much less invasive option. Award player characters with eligibility for achievements such as "kill boss X" at the start of the boss fight. Characters who join an instance while a boss fight is already in progress have not received eligibility since they were not present when the fight started and will not be granted the achievement once the boss is killed.