JW Currencies

[AliamRationem.5172]

So, I'm accumulating unusual coins and Ursus Oblige along with map currencies that can be converted into Ursus Oblige.  But aside from a handful of homestead decorations and a couple of weapon sets easily acquired simply by playing on the maps, there doesn't appear to be much you can use these currencies on? 

This makes me even more concerned for the replayability of this map.  You decided not to have a meta and managed to make a fun map with plenty of activities available.  So far, so good.  But if there's no boss event with rewards that translate to gold on the regular and no farmable map currency with an appropriate outlet, what is keeping players coming back once the achievements and story are done?

We've tried this before in Grothmar Valley.  Beautiful map.  Fun activities and events.  But in practice I don't visit much because there's nothing I need from it and the currency is completely worthless.  Would it kill you guys to think about these things when designing maps?  I love the new map, but I'm probably not going to just hang out there doing the same events forever with nothing to gain from it.

[Pifil.5193]

I assume that we'll need a bunch of these (or at least a bunch of Ursus Oblige) to craft the Legendary Spear and Backpack.

[Gop.8713]

I'm thinking all of JW will use these same currencies, so there may be more to come. Are any of the consumables worth buying, idk . . ?

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Prepare for alot of confused emotes but in 3 months people will agree with me.

IoJ is PoF 2.0. The maps looks pretty, there appears a lot of things of things to do, but once you complete all the scavenger hunt content, there is nothing left to do. I have completed all content except for woat armor, which is designed to take the entire expac to complete like skyscale weapons did in Soto,  and the only repeatable content in the game, the tiier heart system, wayfarer henge the expansion.  I do not understand how this community is so bipolar with hearts,  people one month with act like love them, and the next they hate them. Personally I generally do mind them, but having to do all six hearts 23 times to get maximum rewards is nuts.  And add to the fact that they made them fill up super slow to justify adding the renown hearts item to group quests and adventures. There are also 3 hearts that have hardly any events near them so they take forever. This is the end game loop, after you finish everything else.  

So ask your this, when was the last time you did any PoF event that was not casino blitz? That is where IoJ will be once people get fed up with the doing the hearts.  Right now most people are in the honeymoon period, and for most people still have things to explore. But once they get to where I am, this expac really lacks a gameplay loop, like PoF.  It also does not surprise me that game journos are giving glowing review, like they did with PoF, with only doing the 1 time only content.

Hopefully on September 10, they will add the incomplete legendary spear collection, so people can start having something to start grinding toward. This of course will be 23 after IoJ launch, so at that point I will have all the hearts completed, along with alot of other people.

 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

1 hour ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Prepare for alot of confused emotes but in 3 months people will agree with me.

IoJ is PoF 2.0. The maps looks pretty, there appears a lot of things of things to do, but once you complete all the scavenger hunt content, there is nothing left to do. I have completed all content except for woat armor, which is designed to take the entire expac to complete like skyscale weapons did in Soto,  and the only repeatable content in the game, the tiier heart system, wayfarer henge the expansion.  I do not understand how this community is so bipolar with hearts,  people one month with act like love them, and the next they hate them. Personally I generally do mind them, but having to do all six hearts 23 times to get maximum rewards is nuts.  And add to the fact that they made them fill up super slow to justify adding the renown hearts item to group quests and adventures. There are also 3 hearts that have hardly any events near them so they take forever. This is the end game loop, after you finish everything else.  

So ask your this, when was the last time you did any PoF event that was not casino blitz? That is where IoJ will be once people get fed up with the doing the hearts.  Right now most people are in the honeymoon period, and for most people still have things to explore. But once they get to where I am, this expac really lacks a gameplay loop, like PoF.  It also does not surprise me that game journos are giving glowing review, like they did with PoF, with only doing the 1 time only content.

Hopefully on September 10, they will add the incomplete legendary spear collection, so people can start having something to start grinding toward. This of course will be 23 after IoJ launch, so at that point I will have all the hearts completed, along with alot of other people.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but no legendary spear stuff on September 10. ANet has already released the schedule for JW patches and the legendary spear will come with the first JW patch, 3 months after release, so in November.

Oh, and I frequently visit PoF maps and never find myself alone there or short for people doing group events.

And isn't Woad armor available through WvW? What makes you think it is designed to require the entire expansion to acquire? This is not legendary armor, where you needed 3 armor sets to unlock the option to craft legendary armor. It's just a regular armor set.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Prepare for alot of confused emotes but in 3 months people will agree with me.

IoJ is PoF 2.0. The maps looks pretty, there appears a lot of things of things to do, but once you complete all the scavenger hunt content, there is nothing left to do. I have completed all content except for woat armor, which is designed to take the entire expac to complete like skyscale weapons did in Soto,  and the only repeatable content in the game, the tiier heart system, wayfarer henge the expansion.  I do not understand how this community is so bipolar with hearts,  people one month with act like love them, and the next they hate them. Personally I generally do mind them, but having to do all six hearts 23 times to get maximum rewards is nuts.  And add to the fact that they made them fill up super slow to justify adding the renown hearts item to group quests and adventures. There are also 3 hearts that have hardly any events near them so they take forever. This is the end game loop, after you finish everything else.  

So ask your this, when was the last time you did any PoF event that was not casino blitz? That is where IoJ will be once people get fed up with the doing the hearts.  Right now most people are in the honeymoon period, and for most people still have things to explore. But once they get to where I am, this expac really lacks a gameplay loop, like PoF.  It also does not surprise me that game journos are giving glowing review, like they did with PoF, with only doing the 1 time only content.

Hopefully on September 10, they will add the incomplete legendary spear collection, so people can start having something to start grinding toward. This of course will be 23 after IoJ launch, so at that point I will have all the hearts completed, along with alot of other people.

 

My thoughts exactly.  I feel like we keep making the same mistakes.  And why?  Would it bother anyone to make the map feel rewarding long term?  I know I wouldn't mind regularly spending time in lowland shore.  Just give me a reason to be there.

[Cyninja.2954]

12 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

My thoughts exactly.  I feel like we keep making the same mistakes.  And why?  Would it bother anyone to make the map feel rewarding long term?  I know I wouldn't mind regularly spending time in lowland shore.  Just give me a reason to be there.

What you see as a mistake is the developer realizing that they can't keep adding maps which "have" to be played.

There is a good chance that the map resources acquired in JW will remain essential and exclusive to this content and required for at least the spear and backpiece. How much would you be visiting SotO now if you had the entire gen2 legendary armor (or let's just say once you are "done" acquiring what ever you need there)?

(EDIT: oh and while at it, the legendary spear is to release in 3 months. Alongside raids and convergences and NO new maps. So for anyone wondering what the spear will need, maybe take that into account).

Moving along: essence will likely be the resource shared among all mini expansions. So from that aspect, rfits and convergences from JW will remain relevant.

As far as map content, most events on these maps can be soloed. The few group events will eventually be done when these maps go on "rotation", similar to past open world maps.

Grothmar Valley is not comparable. There is nothing to "grind" or acquire there. Even the chilies were useless until recently as far as wealth. A better example are indeed PoF maps, especially the ones from Season 4. Some have metas which are run (and let's not pretend that this automatically leads to the maps being alive. I doubt many players hang around after Pinata) other are being run for bounties.

The reason players run content is if they "need" resources from that content (and some metas for a chance at infantile small ultra rare drops). That's the reason players run HoT maps besides metas, that's the reason players do map completion in core, that's the reason players farm IBS chests on alts.

Edited September 2 by Cyninja.2954

[Shadowmoon.7986]

27 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but no legendary spear stuff on September 10. ANet has already released the schedule for JW patches and the legendary spear will come with the first JW patch, 3 months after release, so in November.

Oh, and I frequently visit PoF maps and never find myself alone there or short for people doing group events.

And isn't Woad armor available through WvW? What makes you think it is designed to require the entire expansion to acquire? This is not legendary armor, where you needed 3 armor sets to unlock the option to craft legendary armor. It's just a regular armor set.

Soto had the legendary armor collection day 1 of the expac dropping. It was incomplete, but you knew what do work towards with the current maps.  It also had t2 weapons sets that motivated you to do the two metas to help complete those collections.  I can read the road map, that why I stated they probably need to release in "incomplete" collection, because right now content outsiide of the heart system is extremely lacking. You have a world boss, which drops a account bound spear,  so it less rewarding than the soto metas with the sellable chair and mask.

Also the woat armor currently requires 18 reward tracks to complete, it is probably the only reward pvp and wvw is getting for the entire expac.  Most player will probably take  the entire expac to complete 18 reward tracks in both game mode, if at all. Now anet is adding a short cut, using memories of battle, but the short cut is just buying wvw time from other players in exchange for gold.

[Gehenna.3625]

19 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Soto had the legendary armor collection day 1 of the expac dropping. It was incomplete, but you knew what do work towards with the current maps.  It also had t2 weapons sets that motivated you to do the two metas to help complete those collections.  I can read the road map, that why I stated they probably need to release in "incomplete" collection, because right now content outsiide of the heart system is extremely lacking. You have a world boss, which drops a account bound spear,  so it less rewarding than the soto metas with the sellable chair and mask.

Also the woat armor currently requires 18 reward tracks to complete, it is probably the only reward pvp and wvw is getting for the entire expac.  Most player will probably take  the entire expac to complete 18 reward tracks in both game mode, if at all. Now anet is adding a short cut, using memories of battle, but the short cut is just buying wvw time from other players in exchange for gold.

Yeah I really would wish for some more clarity about what it takes to make the spear or even just a precursor or whatever. JaWi is a different approach to an expansion but there are a few holes in this approach just the same. 

I do like roaming around in Kodan Lowlands but I also do miss a solid goal I can work towards. 

And yeah, the one spear skin I really like in JaWi is the one that is a rare drop from the WB fight in Syntri. Rare drops are not solid goals that you can work towards. Besides Syntri is buggy as hell and I really spend as little time as possible there, particularly because the game cuts out in Syntri for me regularly and only there.

 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

So ask your this, when was the last time you did any PoF event that was not casino blitz?

Yesterday.

(I play at least 1 POF map on weekly basis. Sometimes 2 or 3.)

[Cameirus.8407]

6 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

So ask your this, when was the last time you did any PoF event that was not casino blitz?

 

 

Most weeks I hit up some event here or there. sometimes jump in a bounty group, sometimes metas. sometimes someone needs an event for a collection and i help out.

tbh, I rarely do blitz, its not interesting to me. Whilst I quite like a lot of the stuff in the other maps.

 

IoJ is not finished yet, its going to be updated with patches I'm sure, thats why parts of it feel so empty now.

But not every map has to drag you back daily.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I'm glad you guys enjoy puttering around on maps that offer negligible rewards.  That's great.  But you almost seem to be suggesting anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong.  Yet as far as I can tell, what I'm suggesting wouldn't change much by your way of thinking.  So what's the problem?

[Sweetbread.3678]

11 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm glad you guys enjoy puttering around on maps that offer negligible rewards.  That's great.  But you almost seem to be suggesting anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong.  Yet as far as I can tell, what I'm suggesting wouldn't change much by your way of thinking.  So what's the problem?

It's just people coping. Give it a month from now when everyone realizes that there's nothing to do in their PvE expansion besides go grind WvW for 50+ hours to earn any of the actual Janthir Wilds themed cosmetics and you'll start to see more complaining. It has a great first zone and a well written story, but Janthir Syntri is a total mess and the entire itemization/rewards/gameplay loop is a huge step back from SotO. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

It's just people coping. Give it a month from now when everyone realizes that there's nothing to do in their PvE expansion besides go grind WvW for 50+ hours to earn any of the actual Janthir Wilds themed cosmetics and you'll start to see more complaining. It has a great first zone and a well written story, but Janthir Syntri is a total mess and the entire itemization/rewards/gameplay loop is a huge step back from SotO. 

Yeah, getting spammed with confused emojis for what everyone will be saying in a month or two.  Oh well!

[Sweetbread.3678]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Yeah, getting spammed with confused emojis for what everyone will be saying in a month or two.  Oh well!

It's basically just the "I'm an idiot" button at this point. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[Cameirus.8407]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm glad you guys enjoy puttering around on maps that offer negligible rewards.  That's great.  But you almost seem to be suggesting anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong.  Yet as far as I can tell, what I'm suggesting wouldn't change much by your way of thinking.  So what's the problem?

You can just play stuff for fun you know....you dont have to turn the game into a job where you maximise output at the expense of enjoyment.....

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Cameirus.8407 said:

You can just play stuff for fun you know....you dont have to turn the game into a job where you maximise output at the expense of enjoyment.....

Sure.  But given the choice, I'd rather have both.  Adding something to use these currencies on wouldn't change a thing about how fun the map is.  I'm not sure why we're pretending to be against that in this thread.  But like I said, give it a month or two and we'll be having this discussion a lot more.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

10 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm glad you guys enjoy puttering around on maps that offer negligible rewards.  That's great.  But you almost seem to be suggesting anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong.  Yet as far as I can tell, what I'm suggesting wouldn't change much by your way of thinking.  So what's the problem?

I'm not sure where you got the idea that we think our way to play is the only way. Point of fact, my response specifically was a callout that there are different ways to play the game, and more importantly, different reasons to play, not just rewards. I play for fun, nothing more. I go back to POF maps often because they have some of the best culture, events, and ambient energy to immerse myself in time and again. Other than that, if I see a shiny new skin, toy, title, item, or utility in the game that I want, I'll go after that if the grind isn't too bad. But that happens rarely unless new content is dropped. When I want a real fight, I go to wvw, which is almost everyday.

That's just how I choose to spend my time, and I'm glad the game gives me those multiple types of opportunities. If that's not for everyone, fine, the game is huge. There are plenty of other maps in the game for them to enjoy, but don't say the devs are "making mistakes" just because these are not your thing when other people are still enjoying them years later. If I just want rewards for rewards sake, I usually go to a place called work and get a very coveted reward called dollars. Others are free to spend their time as they wish.

18 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Would it kill you guys to think about these things when designing maps?

I think the negative responses you are getting are because of quotes like this and the aforementioned "making mistakes" accusation. It seems like you are telling the devs not to make these maps because "anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong" instead of the other way around. If that was not your intent with these quotes, then sorry, they were clearly muddled. It seems they ARE thinking about these things and the players that enjoy them. There plenty of meta maps from recent expansions designed for rewards. When was the last time we got a Lowland Shore style map? Grothmar way back in 2019?

Teapot recently did a video where he rated each expac by tiers. He fully admitted that they were his personal opinions as a gameplay player that doesn't care much for story, and they are not indicative of what GW2 players feel as a whole. He rated POF lower than expected for this reason, but he admitted the maps are amazing for other types of players and could rightfully be ranked much higher. At no point did he accuse Anet of not thinking them through or making mistakes with them. Except for maps like Gyala Delve, but come on. Maybe just check your language and your approach, and you might find a more open discussion?

All that said, I love Lowland Shore and don't want it to change much. Some extra level of rewards would be fine. I agree Syntri can use some polish, including more frequent events and better rewards, especially for the world bosses. Decima and Greer should give rewards on the caliper of any other world boss, if not more due to being max-level expansion content.

[AliamRationem.5172]

18 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I'm not sure where you got the idea that we think our way to play is the only way. Point of fact, my response specifically was a callout that there are different ways to play the game, and more importantly, different reasons to play, not just rewards. I play for fun, nothing more. I go back to POF maps often because they have some of the best culture, events, and ambient energy to immerse myself in time and again. Other than that, if I see a shiny new skin, toy, title, item, or utility in the game that I want, I'll go after that if the grind isn't too bad. But that happens rarely unless new content is dropped. When I want a real fight, I go to wvw, which is almost everyday.

That's just how I choose to spend my time, and I'm glad the game gives me those multiple types of opportunities. If that's not for everyone, fine, the game is huge. There are plenty of other maps in the game for them to enjoy, but don't say the devs are "making mistakes" just because these are not your thing when other people are still enjoying them years later. If I just want rewards for rewards sake, I usually go to a place called work and get a very coveted reward called dollars. Others are free to spend their time as they wish.

I think the negative responses you are getting are because of quotes like this and the aforementioned "making mistakes" accusation. It seems like you are telling the devs not to make these maps because "anyone who doesn't see it your way is just playing the game wrong" instead of the other way around. If that was not your intent with these quotes, then sorry, they were clearly muddled. It seems they ARE thinking about these things and the players that enjoy them. There plenty of meta maps from recent expansions designed for rewards. When was the last time we got a Lowland Shore style map? Grothmar way back in 2019?

Teapot recently did a video where he rated each expac by tiers. He fully admitted that they were his personal opinions as a gameplay player that doesn't care much for story, and they are not indicative of what GW2 players feel as a whole. He rated POF lower than expected for this reason, but he admitted the maps are amazing for other types of players and could rightfully be ranked much higher. At no point did he accuse Anet of not thinking them through or making mistakes with them. Except for maps like Gyala Delve, but come on. Maybe just check your language and your approach, and you might find a more open discussion?

All that said, I love Lowland Shore and don't want it to change much. Some extra level of rewards would be fine. I agree Syntri can use some polish, including more frequent events and better rewards, especially for the world bosses. Decima and Greer should give rewards on the caliper of any other world boss, if not more due to being max-level expansion content.

Ahh, I forgot.  The expansion just released.  So even identifying something as obvious as having currencies with almost nothing available to spend them on as a mistake is offensive to the sensibilities.  We don't want rewards!  We want fun!  And you obviously can't have that if the currencies you accumulate while having fun are of any value at all!  Man, copium is a heck of a drug...

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Ahh, I forgot.  The expansion just released.  So even identifying something as obvious as having currencies with almost nothing available to spend them on as a mistake is offensive to the sensibilities.  We don't want rewards!  We want fun!  And you obviously can't have that if the currencies you accumulate while having fun are of any value at all!  Man, copium is a heck of a drug...

Wow, I tried to have an honest discussion about it (and even partially agreed with you), but you are really reaching for those confused emojis, aren't ya? Well too bad! I won't give you the satisfaction of giving you one. 😆 You can call POF's continued popularity and all the players I regularly see there my copium, I suppose. And we'll all keep on sipping it 7 years later! 😉

[AliamRationem.5172]

9 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Wow, I tried to have an honest discussion about it (and even partially agreed with you), but you are really reaching for those confused emojis, aren't ya? Well too bad! I won't give you the satisfaction of giving you one. 😆 You can call POF's continued popularity and all the players I regularly see there my copium, I suppose. And we'll all keep on sipping it 7 years later! 😉

I didn't say anything about PoF, chief.  That was a different guy.  The copium is getting bent out of shape about anything remotely critical of the new expansion.  For instance, observing that multiple currencies with hardly anything to spend them is a "mistake" rather than a wonderful design decision that facilitates endless fun. 🤗

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I didn't say anything about PoF, chief.  That was a different guy.  The copium is getting bent out of shape about anything remotely critical of the new expansion.  For instance, observing that multiple currencies with hardly anything to spend them is a "mistake" rather than a wonderful design decision that facilitates endless fun. 🤗

Again, I don't think many people are outright opposing your desire for tweaking the rewards, mostly your delivery. Like when an interesting premise gets ruined by poor execution. Just my humble opinion.

POF/Grothmar maps get brought up because the JW maps are more comparable to them than recent meta maps, so POF maps are the expected precedence for the JW maps.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I think it's a case of not having much to use the currency on yet so we can stock up for when they release something for us to use it on. 

Edited September 3 by Eekasqueak.7850

[AliamRationem.5172]

34 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I think it's a case of not having much to use the currency on yet so we can stock up for when they release something for us to use it on. 

I'm sure you're right and there will be legendary spear components that require the currency.  But if they intended to have a long-term sink for the currency, they probably would have introduced it to begin with.  That there isn't one makes me concerned that this will be another Grothmar.  Good map, but no rewards in part because we're given currency that we can't spend on anything.

[Ashen.2907]

47 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm sure you're right and there will be legendary spear components that require the currency.  But if they intended to have a long-term sink for the currency, they probably would have introduced it to begin with.  That there isn't one makes me concerned that this will be another Grothmar.  Good map, but no rewards in part because we're given currency that we can't spend on anything.

Introducing the long term goal while people are still in the honeymoon phase with the content is counterproductive for ANet. People are going to play the content initially regardless of long term goals. Adding such as engagement with the content begins to wane means a longer total engagement window. Sounds cynical, but it is more effective to drip feed goals rather than front load them.