Woad Armor

[Cyninja.2954]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:48 AM, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Dude, the game has been out for more than 12 years and the gameplay in WvW hasn't exactly evolved over time. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of the playerbase has come to know whether or not they enjoy endlessly rotating around the same 3 maps in a wall attacking boonblob. You wanna know how they know this? Because they're already forced into it by the Gift of Battle grind every time they want to make a legendary. 

This whole line of thinking has such "the beatings will continue until morale improves" vibes. "Oh you think WvW is like pulling teeth? Clearly the issue here is that you need to pull teeth for another 50+ hours!" Nah thanks, I'll just not buy the next expac.

This can be easily contested and even dis-proven.

Checking GW2efficiency, which is already populated by more involved aka hardcore players, gives a pretty good breakup of when players start getting involved with WvW.

Suffice to say, most players don't even touch WvW beore they reach the 500 - 2,000 hour point. Why would they, PvE is already large enough to "finish" or catch-up. It takes around 500-600 hours to max masteries for new accounts (going by what streamers with alt accounts, which are very knowledgeable of the game, take). The Gift of Battle factors into this too, given legendaries become interesting to "new" players well after they have seen the majority of PvE. The least amount of players start their legendary journey at around 1,000 - 2,000 hours (that's where the average legendary per account goes to 2 on efficiency and the median hits 1) which interesting enough coincides perfectly with when most try WvW.

As such having unique rewards which encourage players try out content earlier is beneficial. It gives players a perspective on what else there is besides only PvE.

I think the fact that some veteran players which are only after the skins might be salty because they have to WvW or Spvp is less of a concern to the developer when they are looking at what benefits the game as a whole.

[Cyninja.2954]

54 minutes ago, alastor.4691 said:

I keep saying I am not against Pvp/wvw getting their exclusive armor Im just completly against  using the armor whose skin its linked to the OW to be the only one not obtainable in OW, while the 2 armors that loook nothing alike whats happening in the expansion are the ones you can buy on ow (and craft)... still feel that the titan armor  should be the competitive one, as I feel it represents more a competitive  mind than the woad. the Olympic games,  the Trojan wars, Hercules, it feels more fitting for wvw/pvp than  the "armor the bear people you meet during the story  wear"

I get what you are saying, but let's be honest here:

This has nothing to do with this armor being iconic or w/e. It's the by most considered "best" looking armor of the 3. If this armor had been available via PvE and some other set which was more popular was made available via Spvp and WvW, the same discussion would have been had.

Which is why I made a flippant comment about:

Quote

PvE players about loot they don't care about:"sure, Spvp and WvW can get their own rewards and unique skins."

PvE players about loot they want:"WTF, how dare these game modes get unique loot I want! Rawr! Freak! Explode!"

If it's desirable, some players will complain no matter what if it's not in PvE.

Which leaves us with Spvp and WvW either just getting the undesirable handy-downs or no new cosmetics, ever. I think everyone should understand that is not a healthy option IF these modes are supposed to be supported.

Now everyone is obviously free to argue that PvE is the only mode which is supposed to get any development (and it pretty much is), I'm not sure that is in the best interest or health of the game though imo.

Edited September 7 by Cyninja.2954

[willow.8209]

double post, deleted

 

Edited September 7 by willow.8209

[Zyreva.1078]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:01 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Normally one would try to think about why those modes are so "lesser populated".

Hint: you incentivize people with rewards when you want them to go to work. When you want to make an entertainment venue more interesting however, you should probably think about making it more fun instead.

How populated would PvE really be, if rewards were removed or drastically lowered tho? You know, like it has been the case in WvW and sPvP for years?

PvE is a lot more reward (in terms of "loot") driven than both WvW and sPvP. And that's also were the drama stems from - some PvE players just feel entitled to get everything they want without ever having to step out of their comfort zone that is facerolling open world. Instead of just playing the game for fun without worrying what fancy stuff they might or might not get ...

Personally i really hate being forced into gameplay i don't like (primarily PvE grind) and there are many games that i will never touch for that reason alone. But offering exclusive optional rewards like skins as incentive to try different game modes is very different from forcing players to do stuff they don't want and it also has nothing to do with those game modes "needing rewards because they are less fun".

Edited September 7 by Zyreva.1078

[alastor.4691]

7 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

As such having unique rewards which encourage players try out content earlier is beneficial. It gives players a perspective on what else there is besides only PvE.

problem is people try it,just for the reward, then feels like a chore and people do not like doing chores, so people that would actually enjoy pvp/wvw end up not liking it cause they are only doing that chore to get that desired item, what they want is the item not the game mode.

Also I probably ruined it for several people cause farming the armor through ranked pvp, as its faster than normal pvp,  but I am wearing  the same pve build cause I do not feel like wasting time  making a proper pvp build, Im only there for the chest rewards and the reward track, I still try my best with that build (cause frankly I do not like being afk in  a competitive game, although I would surely be if it was wvw)and the moment I get everything I want  (just want 4 of the woad heavy armor) Im not visiting the pvp lobby again.

been insulted several times already because of it, and my anwer is just, Im here for the reward track this is the fastest way, do not care about rankings, complain to Anet if you do not like it.
So people that play those modes do not want us there. either

Edited September 7 by alastor.4691

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, alastor.4691 said:

problem is people try it,just for the reward, then feels like a chore and people do not like doing chores, so people that would actually enjoy pvp/wvw end up not liking it cause they are only doing that chore to get that desired item, what they want is the item not the game mode.

Also I probably ruined it for several people cause farming the armor through ranked pvp, as its faster than normal pvp,  but I am wearing  the same pve build cause I do not feel like wasting time  making a proper pvp build, Im only there for the chest rewards and the reward track, I still try my best with that build (cause frankly I do not like being afk in  a competitive game, although I would surely be if it was wvw)and the moment I get everything I want  (just want 4 of the woad heavy armor) Im not visiting the pvp lobby again.

been insulted several times already because of it, and my anwer is just, Im here for the reward track this is the fastest way, do not care about rankings, complain to Anet if you do not like it, 

I know of multiple players which went "in for the reward" and now it's their primary game mode.

I am not saying everyone will like it. Then again I am also more than willing to say: not everyone needs every skin or bit of loot.

I know a ton of WvW only players and to them getting nearly ANY reward in PvE is pure pain. Not even going to mention the PvE legendaries. Most then simply decide: guess I am not going to have that reward.

Again, the alternative is to NEVER give Spvp and WvW ANY desirable loot, and I don't see that as healthy.

[alastor.4691]

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I know of multiple players which went "in for the reward" and now it's their primary game mode

know one or two, also know one or two that hated it because feeling forced into it

And yes I know no one is really forcing anyone into the game mode, but it can feel like it when like the legendary item or  a skin you really want because it fits the lore you gave your character more than any other armor you have (Im an avid rper), and you have to agree that 18 times the same reward track was a bit too much (am very happy they decided to add that you can gt them through coins, but we still not know its price, so it could be even more obnoxious)

[bq pd.2148]

12 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Again, the alternative is to NEVER give Spvp and WvW ANY desirable loot, and I don't see that as healthy.

you mean no desirable EXCLUSIVE loot? for they can add any desirable loot from PvE also to WvW/sPvP.
they could make something like the Woad armor tedious to optain in PvE while 'easy' in competitive, wouldn't that also give an incentive to try competitive modes while still offering an alternative?

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, bq pd.2148 said:

you mean no desirable EXCLUSIVE loot? for they can add any desirable loot from PvE also to WvW/sPvP.
they could make something like the Woad armor tedious to optain in PvE while 'easy' in competitive, wouldn't that also give an incentive to try competitive modes while still offering an alternative?

True, there are ways to work around this issue if so desired, though I feel the complaints would just be different.

Ultimately what this comes down to is: players like to have loot/skins which they can show off and it is essential to give the competitive modes some attention.

Just some food for thought:

We are in a consolidation period. The developers are trying to squeeze as much "content" out of limited resources as they can (I think that is pretty obvious by now). The competitive modes in this game, especially WvW, have had the highest play hour per developer hour spent on "content" by far (given both Spvp and WvW have gotten very little to no attention. WvW is being played on many year old maps to this day with most rewards being handy-downs from PvE). Essentially any player that can be converted into a competitive mode player or a multi mode player can be "satisfied" far easier than a pure PvE player.

PvE players are BY FAR the most expensive crowd to develop content for developer hour wise.

For the general health of the game, it's imperative to convert more players to play more than just open world content (which is notoriously some of the most expensive content to be made, right next to story).

[alastor.4691]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Ultimately what this comes down to is: players like to have loot/skins which they can show off and it is essential to give the competitive modes some attention.

I agree that competitive modes feel abandoned,  went there 3 years ago for the gift of battle, went today for the woad armor, and it still feels the same. 

 

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

For the general health of the game, it's imperative to convert more players to play more than just open world content (which is notoriously some of the most expensive content to be made, right next to story).

thats a bit too much of a stretch,  I feel that I would stop playing if all the focus went to the competitive part of the game (that I utterly dislike), nad frankly doubt thats gonna ever be a thing

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, alastor.4691 said:

I agree that competitive modes feel abandoned,  went there 3 years ago for the gift of battle, went today for the woad armor, and it still feels the same. 

 

thats a bit too much of a stretch,  I feel that I would stop playing if all the focus went to the competitive part of the game (that I utterly dislike), nad frankly doubt thats gonna ever be a thing

To your first part that is because it is the same just abit of a balance patch thrown in now and again.

To your second part that is not what Cyninja said read the post again, will give a hint they want you to play abit pve, abit wvw and hopefully abit spvp aswell.

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, alastor.4691 said:

if all the focus went to the competitive part of the game

Not at all what he suggested.

[kondo.9537]

No like really people still crying about it? It was so easy to get this armor. 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:41 PM, graystream.3271 said:

I don't understand why this would be locked behind wvw. As a way to get people to play wvw maybe? I doubt more than a handful of players will replay a reward track 6 times to get a single set of this new armor. And I can imagine even regular wvw players are not a big fan of activating the same reward track that many times.

Why put so much time and effort into such beautiful armor sets just to waste it like this?

Sometimes I really don't understand arenanets decisions.

Such a waste. Why not lock it behind some map currency specific currency so people can grind it out on the new maps and enjoy the expansion instead 

I got all dungeon armor skins by repeating reward tracks. It is either that or having gift of battle on repeat - and you don't need THAT many gift of battles.

Having a reward track on repeat is a non-issue for regular players. 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:52 PM, Zoid.2568 said:

Like 99% of players PvE though, only a minority WvW. should ArenaNet cater to a minority? which is like 1% of the playerbase or less.

if we go down that route: remove all raids. Noone is playing those....

[Zoid.2568]

1 hour ago, VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. said:

if we go down that route: remove all raids. Noone is playing those....

Did I say that WvW should be removed? No.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

4 minutes ago, Zoid.2568 said:

Did I say that WvW should be removed? No.

no, you said 'cater' and catering for raids was a massive reason why balance sucked during HoT and lw3.

Besides, do wvw players get pve exclusive skins? No? So... what is this noise all about? You want raid armor, you do raids. You want soto armor, you poor thing do soto. You want wvw armor, you do wvw. Simple.

[willow.8209]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:06 AM, alastor.4691 said:

So people that play those modes do not want us there. either

I agree this is a problem but some of us do want all players to feel accepted including the ones that main other modes. Ofc I play competitive and noncompetitive modes so maybe I'm not the best example, I dip in and out of wvw depending on energy levels cf content. 

[Sweetbread.3678]

On 9/7/2024 at 5:22 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Suffice to say, most players don't even touch WvW beore they reach the 500 - 2,000 hour point. Why would they, PvE is already large enough to "finish" or catch-up. It takes around 500-600 hours to max masteries for new accounts (going by what streamers with alt accounts, which are very knowledgeable of the game, take). The Gift of Battle factors into this too, given legendaries become interesting to "new" players well after they have seen the majority of PvE. The least amount of players start their legendary journey at around 1,000 - 2,000 hours (that's where the average legendary per account goes to 2 on efficiency and the median hits 1) which interesting enough coincides perfectly with when most try WvW.

As such having unique rewards which encourage players try out content earlier is beneficial. It gives players a perspective on what else there is besides only PvE.

So, lemme get this straight. Despite WvW having the following exclusives (in some capacity) for the past 12+ years...

• Obsidian weapons - 32 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Hero's weapons - 38 variants - WvW exclusive
• Mist Lord's weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Officer's Remnant weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Corrupted Hero's weapons - 17 variants - WvW exclusive
• Warlord's armor - 18 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Triumphant armor - 54 variants - WvW exclusive - also the de facto legendary armor set for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-SotO
• Conflux - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary ring for every non-fractal/raid PvEer and still the only way to get a 2nd legendary ring
• Warbringer - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary back for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-Janthir
• Probably some other crap I missed

...the GoB grind is what "coincides perfectly with when most try WvW", and your takeaway from that is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that we simply don't have enough unique rewards driving players into WvW?

Funny, because my takeaway from that data is that all of those exclusive unique rewards seem to be doing absolutely kitten-all to actually "encourage players (to) try out content earlier", that most players seem to have explicitly bought the game for it's PvE content (as shown by them not engaging with other modes until they are more-or-less "finished", for lack of a better word, with said PvE content), and that said PvE players seem to put off WvW for as long as possible and only enter into it when they can no longer avoid grinding GoBs if they want to continue engaging with GW2's endgame stretch goals. 

So yeah going off of that, I'd say that, historically, bribery doesn't seem like it's been a particular effective strategy for getting players into WvW. To be fair though, they hadn't tried this newfangled approach where they lock 3/5ths of the expansion's armor cosmetics (and every single one that has anything to do with it thematically) behind a PvP reward track before, so who knows! I'd say that's a bold move for an expansion that's 99% composed of PvE content, and that your own data shows most people are explicitly buying to play for said PvE content (after all if people were  buying the game for it's pvp/wvw, most wouldn't be waiting 500-2000 hours to engage with it). Gutting 60% of the reward structure for that PvE content the majority willingly paid for so that they can boost the population of modes that even 12+ years in most players actively avoid for ~1000+ hours, is quite the gambit. I can't wait to see how it pans out!

Truly though, perhaps switching from a paradigm of "Play Your Way" where reward tracks exist as a way to provide access to PvE rewards to the PvP modes whose populations could never justify the development costs of said rewards, to a paradigm of "Pay us Money to Do Content that You Hate" where reward tracks exist as a way to inexplicably lock the majority of the game's playerbase out of the rewards they just funded development of, will play out really well for the game's long-term financial health.

On 9/7/2024 at 1:38 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

We are in a consolidation period. The developers are trying to squeeze as much "content" out of limited resources as they can (I think that is pretty obvious by now).

Ah yes, the incredibly efficient "We can only make 5 armor sets this expansion, and probably 2 of those at best will have different skins for all weights; so obviously we're going to lock 18/30 of those cosmetics behind PvP modes with minority populations" school of resource management. Keep up the efficiency boys!

Edit: Just double checked and it's actually only 4 armor sets and not 5. This just keeps getting dumber! 😄 If that 4th set only has 6 skins shared across weights, we'll end up with an expansion where a full FIFTY PERCENT of it's armor cosmetics are locked behind pvp. I don't care how much yall like WvW, that is beyond stupid.

Edited September 9 by Sweetbread.3678

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

• Obsidian weapons - 32 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Hero's weapons - 38 variants - WvW exclusive
• Mist Lord's weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Officer's Remnant weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Corrupted Hero's weapons - 17 variants - WvW exclusive
• Warlord's armor - 18 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Triumphant armor - 54 variants - WvW exclusive - also the de facto legendary armor set for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-SotO
• Conflux - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary ring for every non-fractal/raid PvEer and still the only way to get a 2nd legendary ring
• Warbringer - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary back for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-Janthir
• Probably some other crap I missed

So all this to say wvw/spvp got 5 sets of weapons

2 armor sets for each weight.

legendary ring and backpack.

In 12 years.

Mean while how many pve armor sets are there in those same 12 years? 

We got double legendary armor instanced and open world.

Soon to be double backpack instanced and to be determined but most likely open world pve.

Both earrings can only be got in pve and it got an instanced ring.

Just the gen 3 legendary weapons have almost more skins then the whole spvp and wvw weapons exlusives together.

So maybe please give the WvWers a crumb of the rewards?

[Cyninja.2954]

9 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

So, lemme get this straight. Despite WvW having the following exclusives (in some capacity) for the past 12+ years...

• Obsidian weapons - 32 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Hero's weapons - 38 variants - WvW exclusive
• Mist Lord's weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Officer's Remnant weapons - 16 variants - WvW exclusive
• Corrupted Hero's weapons - 17 variants - WvW exclusive
• Warlord's armor - 18 variants - PvP/WvW exclusive
• Triumphant armor - 54 variants - WvW exclusive - also the de facto legendary armor set for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-SotO
• Conflux - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary ring for every non-fractal/raid PvEer and still the only way to get a 2nd legendary ring
• Warbringer - WvW exclusive - the de facto legendary back for every non-fractal/raid PvEer pre-Janthir
• Probably some other crap I missed

...the GoB grind is what "coincides perfectly with when most try WvW", and your takeaway from that is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that we simply don't have enough unique rewards driving players into WvW?

First off, even considering your padding of the rewards making it seem like far more than it is, thanks for confirming that the amount of skins which are Spvp and WvW exclusive are dwarfed by what PvE has gotten.

Quote

Funny, because my takeaway from that data is that all of those exclusive unique rewards seem to be doing absolutely kitten-all to actually "encourage players (to) try out content earlier", that most players seem to have explicitly bought the game for it's PvE content (as shown by them not engaging with other modes until they are more-or-less "finished", for lack of a better word, with said PvE content), and that said PvE players seem to put off WvW for as long as possible and only enter into it when they can no longer avoid grinding GoBs if they want to continue engaging with GW2's endgame stretch goals. 

Yes, since ignoring the low amount of exclusive skins, most of them are very ugly and as such undersired.

Ask yourself, how many of those skins were you interested in? Let me guess, almost none if not none. Bringing this back to the point I was mocking earlier: seems like some PvE players are more than happy with letting Spvp/WvW have access to the unwanted skins.

Just for reference: I am rank 10k in WvW, I have tickets coming out of my wallet left and right, and even being able to acquire all of those skins without issue, the majority are just not worth my resources, especially the Obsidian ones.

Quote

So yeah going off of that, I'd say that, historically, bribery doesn't seem like it's been a particular effective strategy for getting players into WvW. To be fair though, they hadn't tried this newfangled approach where they lock 3/5ths of the expansion's armor cosmetics (and every single one that has anything to do with it thematically) behind a PvP reward track before, so who knows! I'd say that's a bold move for an expansion that's 99% composed of PvE content, and that your own data shows most people are explicitly buying to play for said PvE content (after all if people were  buying the game for it's pvp/wvw, most wouldn't be waiting 500-2000 hours to engage with it). Gutting 60% of the reward structure for that PvE content the majority willingly paid for so that they can boost the population of modes that even 12+ years in most players actively avoid for ~1000+ hours, is quite the gambit. I can't wait to see how it pans out!

You are hyperboling and it does NOT make your argument stronger, on the contrary, it just makes you look foolish. The reward structure for PvE content has not been gutted by 60%.. The amount of skins for armors is 2 sets for PvE which share a look and 1 set which has 3 individuals looks per weight shared by Spvp and WvW, so far. If this is the same as with SotO, future PvE skins will not be added to Spvp/WvW.

The remaining rewards are ALL PvE heavy beginning with materials, over weapons, over gold acquired and loot gained per hour.

I do agree though, it's unfortunate that the developer have to resort to such "motivation" tactics to keep their game alive. I would have much preferred if more resources were devoted to Spvp and WvW to begin with. I kind of feel as though you'd be one of the player to come whine asap about lacking PvE content then though, wouldn't you?

Quote

Truly though, perhaps switching from a paradigm of "Play Your Way" where reward tracks exist as a way to provide access to PvE rewards to the PvP modes whose populations could never justify the development costs of said rewards, to a paradigm of "Pay us Money to Do Content that You Hate" where reward tracks exist as a way to inexplicably lock the majority of the game's playerbase out of the rewards they just funded development of, will play out really well for the game's long-term financial health.

Let me let you in on a little secret:

If the game does not perform financially, it's PvE which is going to see more and more cuts in development and resources. Just how the majority of PvE content now is being merged.

Spvp and WvW will barely be affected.

Do you want to know how I know? Because Spvp and WvW have barely any resources devoted to them to begin with. You can't cut something which is not there.

Cost wise, and I mentioned this, it is a worthy effort to keep Spvp and WvW in a decent state (which they are not in, especially Spvp) because both modes require a fraction of the resources PvE requires.

Quote

Edit: Just double checked and it's actually only 4 armor sets and not 5. This just keeps getting dumber! 😄 If that 4th set only has 6 skins shared across weights, we'll end up with an expansion where a full FIFTY PERCENT of it's armor cosmetics are locked behind pvp. I don't care how much yall like WvW, that is beyond stupid.

Good, if this leads to Spvp and WvW being reinvigorated, that's excellent news for the game.

Edited September 9 by Cyninja.2954

[LadyRhonwyn.2501]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:26 PM, bq pd.2148 said:

you mean no desirable EXCLUSIVE loot? for they can add any desirable loot from PvE also to WvW/sPvP.
they could make something like the Woad armor tedious to optain in PvE while 'easy' in competitive, wouldn't that also give an incentive to try competitive modes while still offering an alternative?

Isn't the PvE version of the legendary armor not exactly that?  Getting those provisioner tokens, the research notes, map currencies and worst of all those rift essences are tedious, but still better than getting a gob in WvW...

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

So yeah going off of that, I'd say that, historically, bribery doesn't seem like it's been a particular effective strategy for getting players into WvW. To be fair though, they hadn't tried this newfangled approach where they lock 3/5ths of the expansion's armor cosmetics (and every single one that has anything to do with it thematically) behind a PvP reward track before, so who knows! I'd say that's a bold move for an expansion that's 99% composed of PvE content, and that your own data shows most people are explicitly buying to play for said PvE content (after all if people were  buying the game for it's pvp/wvw, most wouldn't be waiting 500-2000 hours to engage with it). Gutting 60% of the reward structure for that PvE content the majority willingly paid for so that they can boost the population of modes that even 12+ years in most players actively avoid for ~1000+ hours, is quite the gambit. I can't wait to see how it pans out!

It's even better when you realize, that the very same expansion where they make this gambit also does not give you WvW unlock of Warclaw. The mount strongly thematically tied to it. This mount is granted to WvW by PoF, and PoF only.

[obastable.5231]

On 8/28/2024 at 2:55 PM, BlackBullWings.2734 said:

that's a dumb strawman, my point is that if a thing is marketed with a product, then it's to be expected to be part of the product.

the janthir wilds expansion roadmap specifically lists "3 armor sets" yet one of them is specifically obtained by not playing what you paid for, that's really dumb marketing at the very least.

This could be said about everything in PvE that isn't available through WvW or PvP. 

Which is the vast majority of skins, all of the legendary weapons, and almost all of the legendary trinkets. That's why this is a facetious argument with no merit. 

Do you see us whining that we want the exact same skins PvE gets? No. We just want the option to obtain a functionally similar item, what it looks like is irrelevant. Being neat and distinct is a bonus that isn't actually important to how it works in the game. 

I have lots of PvE skins, and I loathe and hate every moment of PvE I have to do to get it. Not because PvE sucks I can't do it w/e mentality but because every time a PvP or WvW player has to exit their chosen game mode it literally removes content from that mode. These aren't dynamic events on timers or scripted triggers, these are people. 

In PvE the game is always there waiting for you. In PvP and WvW there is no game without players. You are the game mode. I am the game mode. Without us there is no PvP and no WvW. 

Forcing us out of that mode and into PvE quite literally kills those game modes. Forcing you out of PvE and into WvW takes nothing away from your game mode. It's all exactly as you left it when you go back. 

I've got no sympathy for you not wanting to WvW for a cosmetic. Not even a little bit. I'm actually happy and excited to see this and hope they implement more WvW specific cosmetics because it means more new players discovering WvW, and that means more gameplay and content for everyone who plays it. 

[bq pd.2148]

10 hours ago, LadyRhonwyn.2501 said:

Isn't the PvE version of the legendary armor not exactly that?  Getting those provisioner tokens, the research notes, map currencies and worst of all those rift essences are tedious, but still better than getting a gob in WvW...

no. more like the LW 4 skins (corsair) that you otherwise get from a meta achievement and is needed for Vision. was much less hassle to get them from WvW for me, just activate the track for the map for a bit while roaming some more, not thinking about the reward one bit. this siginificantly cut down the tasks i had to do for that leg trinket.

thats the beauty of everything in reward tracks for someone that is playing WvW a lot, you just activate some reward track and play what you like, while rewards in PvE have you do very specific tasks for everything.

Edited September 9 by bq pd.2148
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