Mursaat Runestones will be worthless/too abundant unless some drastic measure is taken.

[GeraldBC.4927]

Title summarizes the issue. Jade Runestones had a sink, because while a legendary only took 100, there were 16 of them and each had 6 extra skins that took another 200 runestones to make. Sure, not everyone made all the skins, but some did, the skins alone were a massive sink and despite that, DESPITE the massive sink, they were basically worthless for as long as the Kaineng JP bug remained unfixed (you know the one where the chest with a guaranteed runestone was separate for every character so people with 21 characters could get 20 instant runestones). And even after it was fixed, market forces eventually caused the runestone price to gravitate towards 30 silver. I personally found the runestones being so cheap a frustrating fact because they're really not worth the effort of farming them, it's just much more convenient to farm gold and spend it on runestones. 

Mursaat Runestones most likely do not have a sink anywhere near the scale of Jade Runestones. How much is it going to take to make one legendary? One stack? Maybe you have to buy an item from a vendor for 2 stacks? Maybe 4 stacks? Even at 4 stacks, there's a grand total of 2 legendaries, so 4 stacks per legendary is nothing compared to what Jade Runestones had, and Jade runestones, again, were basically worthless. There was no point in farming them except for that one time when their price shot to 1 gold. When you randomly find one while doing something else, it's 'like whatever'. 

But I like to keep it constructive so I will posit a constructive solution. You may not like the idea at first, but let me explain why you shouldn't be afraid of it. You see this game has this neat little option in the Black Lion Trader where players can convert gold into gems, and the things those gems can buy are virtually infinite. Character slots, bag slots, templates, gathering tools, there is always something a player can get. For the vast majority of people, there will never be a point where they can't get something beneficial for gems. This means that no matter how much gold people generate, inflation basically can't happen at all because the moment there is a little more gold in the market, people will delete that gold by turning it into gems. 

One way to prevent runestones from becoming worthless is through something akin to certain types of subsidies. A runestone subsidy if you will. You include an option at one vendor, where the vendor will buy any amount of runestones for 1 gold a piece. No tax, no listing fee. That way, whenever the price of Mursaat Runestones drops below 1 gold, people will buy up and delete them by turning them into gold. Just like that, the problem is solved. Runestones will remain something that people are happy to find. 

[Cyninja.2954]

23 minutes ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

But I like to keep it constructive so I will posit a constructive solution. You may not like the idea at first, but let me explain why you shouldn't be afraid of it. You see this game has this neat little option in the Black Lion Trader where players can convert gold into gems, and the things those gems can buy are virtually infinite. Character slots, bag slots, templates, gathering tools, there is always something a player can get. For the vast majority of people, there will never be a point where they can't get something beneficial for gems. This means that no matter how much gold people generate, inflation basically can't happen at all because the moment there is a little more gold in the market, people will delete that gold by turning it into gems.

While the amount of items which can be bought with gems might seem endless, it is not. Which is not the issue here.

The issue here is gems are not endless and the amount of gems in the games economy grows ONLY if players buy gems with real money (with some minor exceptions like 400 gems per 5k AP).

Gold on the other hand is generated via game play continuously. Since the gem-gold exchange is based on the 2 pools of gold and gems stored in it, having gold inflation in game which exceeds the gem purchase with real money and conversion into gold leads to higher exchange rates. In game inflation has a VERY real effect on the exchange rate.

Quote

One way to prevent runestones from becoming worthless is through something akin to certain types of subsidies. A runestone subsidy if you will. You include an option at one vendor, where the vendor will buy any amount of runestones for 1 gold a piece. No tax, no listing fee. That way, whenever the price of Mursaat Runestones drops below 1 gold, people will buy up and delete them by turning them into gold. Just like that, the problem is solved. Runestones will remain something that people are happy to find. 

I will keep it simple: if the market value of runestones in game is below 1g, adding a merchant which vendor buys them for 1 gold will simply cause for a ton of gold generation aka add to gold inflation. Having an item which vendors for X amount of gold is literally the same as having a direct gold reward. See above and add 1+1.

TL;DR:

Your suggestion/demand essentially boils down to wanting a new, and rather high if I might add, direct gold reward system be implemented. THAT is something I am pretty sure we will not see. While I do agree that the new runestones might run into the issue of not having enough necessity, I would want a less artificial solution which brings with it far more problems than it solves.

Edited September 13 by Cyninja.2954

[GeraldBC.4927]

28 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Gold on the other hand is generated via game play continuously. Since the gem-gold exchange is based on the 2 pools of gold and gems stored in it, having gold inflation in game which exceeds the gem purchase with real money and conversion into gold leads to higher exchange rates. In game inflation has a VERY real effect on the exchange rate.

I disagree, because the exchange rate also affects the gold supply. What would happen if there was a big source of gold generation that wasn't there before? People would convert gold to gems, which increases the gem price, then people would continue to convert gold into gems and because the gem price is higher, it removes more gold from the market, until the gold supply is back to normal. And you forget that gems aren't this consistent 'thing' that market forces control but Arenanet doesn't. They can issue as many of them as they want, at any quantity and at any time. If they existed anywhere for too long, they could make them disappear too.

It's like with irl currencies. The currency's supply is whatever the issuing party wants it to be. If Anet were legitimately worried about the gem price rising, they could simply issue more gems, problem solved. It's not like gems stay in the market once circulated, people just burn them on making new characters or getting upgrades for the new characters. And there is evidence of that. There's been plenty of gold sources that have been added to the game and while they have affected the gem price, it's nowhere near what you would expect. 

• Raids weren't always a thing.
• Fractals weren't always a thing.
• Fractal CMs weren't always a thing.
• PoF raids weren't always a thing
• Strikes weren't always a thing.
• EoD strikes weren't always a thing. 
• EoD strike CMs weren't always a thing
• SotO strikes and Strike CMs weren't always a thing
• The upcoming raid will add additional gold generation

[Skub.8240]

Good. Maybe they should be worthless. Not everything has to be an infinite grind for anyone who hasn't been forever rich for a decade.

[Cuks.8241]

What's wrong with low price of Runestones?

You  are  trying to solve a non existant  problem with a new gold source that would impact inflation if not further balanced just because you dont  like the price?

Besides it seems Anet is  active to balance droprates for these, seen for both EOD as for JW version. So there is really no need for anything more.

[Parasite.5389]

TL:DR Runstones are worthless, the drop rate has been fixed and at some point i'm not going to make as much gold anymore, plz gib gold anet!

[Hotride.2187]

I dont see an issue with a cheap leggy component.

[TheNurgle.4825]

7 hours ago, Skub.8240 said:

Good. Maybe they should be worthless. Not everything has to be an infinite grind for anyone who hasn't been forever rich for a decade.

This is interesting. I believe that items in new expac should take certain amount of time to grind depending on progress of majority of population with old or older items getting easier.

Best example how not to introduce new item is legendary relic. Like ppl with leggy rune getting it for free and ppl without it needs 7500 lucent motes for 1 mystic facet and in total you need 25 mystic facet. I understand that devs want to get rid of oversupply, but this is not the way.

 

[Schimmi.6872]

10 hours ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

I disagree, because the exchange rate also affects the gold supply. What would happen if there was a big source of gold generation that wasn't there before? People would convert gold to gems, which increases the gem price, then people would continue to convert gold into gems and because the gem price is higher, it removes more gold from the market, until the gold supply is back to normal. And you forget that gems aren't this consistent 'thing' that market forces control but Arenanet doesn't. They can issue as many of them as they want, at any quantity and at any time. If they existed anywhere for too long, they could make them disappear too.

As gem/gold and gold/gem are linked, the supply won't get back to normal, as only a part of the new liquid gold is removed by the exchange fee, the other part will go to the sellers, so the gold supply will stay higher. Sure could anet change the whole system, but why should they change a system that is working since the start of the game and also risk that people calling them out for manipulating the market and lying, as the official statement was always that it's just an exchange beetween players.

The new gold supplies you list are often some of the more niche gamemodes, if I had to guess, I would say that the biggest new source is actually the wizard vault

 

[Skub.8240]

2 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

This is interesting. I believe that items in new expac should take certain amount of time to grind depending on progress of majority of population with old or older items getting easier.

Best example how not to introduce new item is legendary relic. Like ppl with leggy rune getting it for free and ppl without it needs 7500 lucent motes for 1 mystic facet and in total you need 25 mystic facet. I understand that devs want to get rid of oversupply, but this is not the way.

 

The runestones encourage people to explore the world and open those chests, which award them other items as well. Needing a lot of them, while dropping plenty of them, is nice imo. Doubtless there is going to be something else attached to the legendary grinds. Map completion, probably a huge eco dump like usual. I wouldn't be surprised if it wanted a lot of rift essences too.

[Teknomancer.4895]

12 hours ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

You see this game has this neat little option in the Black Lion Trader where players can convert gold into gems, and the things those gems can buy are virtually infinite. Character slots, bag slots, templates, gathering tools, there is always something a player can get. For the vast majority of people, there will never be a point where they can't get something beneficial for gems. This means that no matter how much gold people generate, inflation basically can't happen at all because the moment there is a little more gold in the market, people will delete that gold by turning it into gems. 

We'll just put aside the laughable suggestion that "inflation basically can't happen at all." 🤣🤣🤣 

You appear to be operating on the premise that game gold not only can be converted to gems, but that it inevitably will be. However, with most of the gem shop being cosmetics and account convenience/QoL items, I'm not sure this is a valid premise. There aren't many skins in the shop that appeal to me personally and given the way I use my stable of characters, upgrades like storage space, character slots and so forth are only rarely purchased on an as-needed basis (which isn't often).

I really doubt that gem conversion is the massive gold sink you seem to think it is. Is it a factor, absolutely. But it's simply not going to do what you suggest.

[Cyninja.2954]

15 hours ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

I disagree, because the exchange rate also affects the gold supply. What would happen if there was a big source of gold generation that wasn't there before? People would convert gold to gems, which increases the gem price, then people would continue to convert gold into gems and because the gem price is higher, it removes more gold from the market, until the gold supply is back to normal.

Yes, players would convert gold to gems, which would increase the cost of gems when bought with gold.

The amount of gold removed from this transaction is a fraction of what is entering the game, in fact it's around 27-28% of the gold generated.

Quote

And you forget that gems aren't this consistent 'thing' that market forces control but Arenanet doesn't. They can issue as many of them as they want, at any quantity and at any time. If they existed anywhere for too long, they could make them disappear too.

I am forgetting nothing. What you are insinuating is that the developers suddenly adapt or change their approach to generating gems into the games economy, which they absolutely could do, and which would ABSOLUTELY see a reaction within the games economy as such. Suffice to say, it is very unlikely that this would happen within the games normal operations, given the gem-gold exchange has worked the way it does for the entirety of the games life span so far.

I'll even give you a past example of which direction the developers decided to head balance wise on just such an issue which your suggestion would raise:

Rose Quartz

This resource had a very vendor value (if I recall correctly it was 50s per Quartz, I am not sure since it's so long ago). This lead to amazing gold/hour farm trains which were significantly more difficult to do when compared to running around a map and pressing F or 2 a couple of times. The price of Rose Quartz and Powdered Rose Quartz was as such also very high on the TP. The developers decided that giving an item such a high vendor value was not in the games best interested and removed the vendor value.

Quote

It's like with irl currencies. The currency's supply is whatever the issuing party wants it to be. If Anet were legitimately worried about the gem price rising, they could simply issue more gems, problem solved. It's not like gems stay in the market once circulated, people just burn them on making new characters or getting upgrades for the new characters. And there is evidence of that. There's been plenty of gold sources that have been added to the game and while they have affected the gem price, it's nowhere near what you would expect.

Arenanet aren't worried about the gem price. Why would they be? That's a player concern. What the developers MIGHT be worried about is a functional, reliable and predictable gem-gold exchange because that's where they are generating revenue from.

You seem to be confusing who is concerned with what in this situation.

Edited Saturday at 04:21 PM by Cyninja.2954

[Zaraki.5784]

A material used for legendary crafting is too cheap. Oh no!

 

(It's sarcasm)

[Kulvar.1239]

12 hours ago, Parasite.5389 said:

TL:DR Runstones are worthless, the drop rate has been fixed and at some point i'm not going to make as much gold anymore, plz gib gold anet!

The funny thing is, price has doubled with the drop nerf. So OP should be happy. In truth, they want their cake (high sell price) and eat it too (high drop rate).

Edited Saturday at 08:32 PM by Kulvar.1239

[Dean Calaway.9718]

23 hours ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

I personally found the runestones being so cheap a frustrating fact because they're really not worth the effort of farming them, it's just much more convenient to farm gold and spend it on runestones.

Then do that.

Or you wanna force other people to buy them... ? I think there's a name for that...

23 hours ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

One way to prevent runestones from becoming worthless is through something akin to certain types of subsidies. A runestone subsidy if you will. You include an option at one vendor, where the vendor will buy any amount of runestones for 1 gold a piece. No tax, no listing fee.

I don't wanna live on this planet anymore comrade Gerald.

[Adngel.9786]

Maybe it's a material planned to be abundant, like the Chak eggs to get the chak weapons.

[Tula.6021]

On 9/14/2024 at 1:04 AM, GeraldBC.4927 said:

you know the one where the chest with a guaranteed runestone was separate for every character so people with 21 characters could get 20 instant runestones

Had no clue.

On 9/14/2024 at 1:04 AM, GeraldBC.4927 said:

Mursaat Runestones most likely do not have a sink anywhere near the scale of Jade Runestones. How much is it going to take to make one legendary? One stack? Maybe you have to buy an item from a vendor for 2 stacks? Maybe 4 stacks? Even at 4 stacks, there's a grand total of 2 legendaries, so 4 stacks per legendary is nothing compared to what Jade Runestones had, and Jade runestones, again, were basically worthless. There was no point in farming them except for that one time when their price shot to 1 gold. When you randomly find one while doing something else, it's 'like whatever'. 

So, Mursaat Runesstone will drop in price in lack of anything to spend them on NOW.

So what? Not like they're a hassle to get in the first place.

I don't get why this is a problem for you. One item drops in price... wow. With use it will raise again. It is just 1 item. It's not the whole market that's affected. I tell what affected and affects the whole market... homestead.

[Mithral.8516]

We don't even know how mursaat runestones will be used yet, and you're already complaining that the value on the trading post is wrong. As of right now they're quite high value (hovering around 1G each), and that's before we even know what they're truly needed for. If you want to make 1G for each runestone, as you said, start farming and selling them now.

Save your complaints for when there is a real use for these, that is the only circumstance in which we could truly know the value of runestones.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

For sake of argument lets say we only need 100 each for the Spear and Backpack....

So what? There'll always be a market because some people won't want to farm them even if it's super fast and easy (see Flax Seeds, Jade Runestones, etc)

 

[Cameirus.8407]

does it matter?

not everything has to be a massive gold sink like so much is already.

its 2k gold for a legendary relic, 2k about for aurora and vision each due to ecto and mystic coin prices.....we dont have to add massive expense to everything all the time.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The question I have is why someone cares THIS MUCH about some random item. 

 

[Gop.8713]

It's anticipated that this will be used in JW leggies, so it's the sort of item that the tp barons like to horde and flip . . .

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

Supply and Demand, learn to live with it, flow with it, play with it, and marry it if you may.

[kharmin.7683]

12 hours ago, Cameirus.8407 said:

does it matter?

not everything has to be a massive gold sink like so much is already.

 

Yes, it matters to the in-game economy.

[Cernoch.8524]

18 hours ago, Cameirus.8407 said:

does it matter?

not everything has to be a massive gold sink like so much is already.

It is not how economy works, it matters a lot.