Vindicator help please

[Flatley.1620]

Hello, 

I have a Vindicator that has roughly followed this guide but still doesn't seem to do too well in open world scenarios (mainly solo - is that the issue?). To boot, they are fully attired and armed with ascended gear (embarrassing).

I'm thinking it's because their defensive capabilities are pretty weak. Would that be right? They seem to get pounded often and easily.

I think it may also be my lack of experience with a melee/heavy armour class character. 

Any tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated. 

Incidentally, my mechanist, untamed and reaper do extremely well.

I want to enjoy this character but I'm really struggling. 

Edited October 16 by Flatley.1620

[Tinker.6924]

Not an experienced revenant player at all (have at least 2 but don't really play them), but a fairly experienced player in general.

The things I always make sure my open world builds have are:

1. Condition Cleanse 
2. Stun break 
3. CC abilities (if you're solo, those breakbars won't break themselves) NOTE: many cc's do significant breakbar damage but don't actually list it in the tooltip, check here for more info: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar
4. Strong burst for power builds to blow through regular mobs.  
5. optionally: secondary weapon has ranged attack abilities (melee is often stronger for power damage, but ranged will allow you to continue damage when fight mechanics make melee not feasible)

The only thing lacking in that build is the ranged attack which hammer could provide instead, but staff is pretty good for its condi cleanse and healing and Rev GS is just awesome for burst damage which you want.

Revenant is more complicated to play than other professions, like Necro.  Your utilities change when you swap stances and a lot of utilities are "2 presses": you get a initial effect on your first activation of the utility and a different one on the second activation, which contributes to its complexity.   With my necro reaper open world build I can basically just mash any button in any order and if its still not dead I go into shroud and mash buttons in any order and whatever it is usually dead with that.  Sometimes I have to drop shroud and repeat mashing (it's so awful when I must do that).  With that revenant build, you can't do that.  You need to know which button to hit in when you need it.

This may actually be something that gets easier with time.  Read up on each skill and learn when to use and not use them.  Be patient and try to have fun with it.

 

Edited October 17 by Tinker.6924

[Farohna.6247]

Try watching some guides on YouTube, this one has an overview of PvE and open world.  I would highly suggest checking out Lord Hizen as well if you struggle with survivability, for open world builds that are pretty much indestructible.  

 

[Buran.3796]

On 10/16/2024 at 11:55 PM, Flatley.1620 said:

Hello, 

I have a Vindicator that has roughly followed this  but still doesn't seem to do too well in open world scenarios (mainly solo - is that the issue?). To boot, they are fully attired and armed with ascended gear (embarrassing).

 

   Aside from Bladesworn (which can use the Dragon Slash attack to gain health while delivering huge damage, at the cost of being hard to play) Untamed (which can use Restorative Strikes to heal  from 33% of your damage outpout) and maybe Reaper, I wouldn't recomend power builds for solo Open World, specially for mele Revenants, since your base armor will be low and if you want to have big damage numvers your re-sustain will be crap and of you want to gain sustain you'll lose a lot of damage.

   Since you already have (you spent resources to get) the ascended armor in berserker stats, the best way to improve a bit your sustain will probably swap your relic to Zakiros, which will alllow you to recover 7% or your damage output as long as you have Fury. Since ascended trinkets are almost free to get from Season 3 % 4 maps, I would also swap 3-4 of them to knight (or cavalier) stats to reach 2700-2800 armor which is the sweet spot of diminishing returns in terms of physical damage mitigation. I would also replace Devastation with Invocation (3,2,2) since Devastation by itself doesn't grant fury, doesn't add anything to self sustain and the damage increase is really bad when you are not above 80% or even 90% of your HP (which means that playing alone oftenly it delivers meaningless buffs to damage in hard fights).

   But the real trush is that EVEN with those changes with power Vindi I struggle to solo beyond 60-65% of bounties and other hard champions in PvE, whereas with a celestial build I can solo 97-98% of them without much trouble (Rivers relic):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgEQrUmJhwOJJGKFxSJImKByKJBOaPrRXA-DyIY1oi/QKUBkpUoXRgCXKC0e4BA-e

   As someone said above, check the Lord Hizen channel on YT to learn how easy is for cele Vindi to curbstomp OW PvE and even solo most of the instanced bosses in the game.

[Harfang.1507]

I main revenant, though I admit I am not in the elite set.

My breakthrough vindiator build is this one:

It is not two years old, but still good to learn the ropes. ConnorConCarne is another Youtuber with good revenant content, though it is more advanced..

When I started out, I used Marauder gear. As I started raiding and became more confident, I switched to Berserker. I approve the use of greatsword as you are learning the spec. Dual swords do more damage on paper, but the versatility and ease of use of the greatsword is definitely more beginner friendly. Hang in there!

[Buran.3796]

  ...No wonder people keep finding out how easily they keep dying soloing open world PvE content: they ask for help and advice and keyboard warriors keep showcasing rotations against piñata golem and 10 men instanced gameplay....  

  Thread maker asked specifically about his problems at solo OW, posters keep making observations about comformed teamplay for a niche game mode with less players than PvP. The cognitive disonance is outstanding...   The confused emojis aren't singnaling but a blatant confession.

[Cuks.8241]

Look for a salvation variant and you can be immortal with some dmg loss. 

You have a glassy build. You have all the tools as vindi but youll have to be on point. I mean you have 2 stun breaks, great cleanse, mobility and more utility just with archie and victor and 3 heals overall. Bunch of boons. But glass is glass.

You can drop shiro for Jalis for minor dmg loss and more awesome utility.

Also I would just take hammer instead of staff for a range option. For general ow range is very useful. And switch to staff for specific champ fight where you really need that extra cc, cleanse.

But yeah a salvation power vindi is one the stronges ow builds I play. And its power and can still burst well.

[willow.8209]

On 10/16/2024 at 2:55 PM, Flatley.1620 said:

I'm thinking it's because their defensive capabilities are pretty weak. Would that be right? They seem to get pounded often and easily.

I think it may also be my lack of experience with a melee/heavy armour class character. 

i'm a revenant beginner so can't speak to the traits, but from the description the defense seems to rely heavily on dodge. The armor is a glass cannon, which some people really like. However if you don't like being squishy, then you can swap out your armor, or some pieces of it, to marauder or add some knight or soldier or whatever looks right to beef up your defenses--you know something that's still power based but has some defense.

You could also switch to something that's expected to have more defense in the traits, like starting from a roaming build. 

For soloing many players like Guild Jenn better than other build libraries, though sometimes I find Hardstuck has just the right thing too, and other players may have other recommendations as well (I've seen Lord Hizen mentioned--here in this thread as well--and know of a couple of people who tried the builds and liked them, but since it seems to be from an individual and not a guild I'm not sure if there was a large variety of play testers, as compared with one person who is good at build crafting sharing what they like to use and how it works. Both approaches are valid ofc.) Consult which you like.

 

On 10/17/2024 at 7:34 AM, Tinker.6924 said:

The things I always make sure my open world builds have are:

1. Condition Cleanse 
2. Stun break 
3. CC abilities (if you're solo, those breakbars won't break themselves) NOTE: many cc's do significant breakbar damage but don't actually list it in the tooltip, check here for more info: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar
4. Strong burst for power builds to blow through regular mobs.  
5. optionally: secondary weapon has ranged attack abilities (melee is often stronger for power damage, but ranged will allow you to continue damage when fight mechanics make melee not feasible)

This is a lot like my strategy too, and my convention is to always put a stunbreak on the same utility spot. I try to arrange the utilities by theme so when I change characters or builds I still know which key I need when. Ofc revenant is different and you get what you get. Some days the complexity of the revenant is a very interesting way to play. 

Tho I do appreciate a good button mashing build too! And most days that's a better fit for me (hence not much play with my revenants). 

Edited Tuesday at 02:13 AM by willow.8209

[GeraldBC.4927]

Vindicator has one of the best default kits for open world, it gives you so much if you know where to find it. You need to keep in mind that the vindicator legend has 2 stances and you are not limited to one of them. And switching between vindicator stances doesn't have a cast time, meaning you can do it in many situations where any other form of stance- or weapon swapping wouldn't be possible. 

Greatsword 4 is a block, as is staff 3 and you have plenty of dodges, that is A LOT of effective invulns. Remember, the big strength with these invulns is that they are not capped in how much damage they prevent. Stuff that will nuke a reaper at full shroud will not even scratch you if you do it correctly. 

Need a stunbreak? Not only is Archemorus' 9 a stunbreak, but Saint Viktor's is as well.

Need a condi cleanse? Archemorus' 8 doesn't cleanse condis, but Saint Viktor's does. 

Running low on health and you already used Archemorus' healing skill? Saint Viktor's healing skill has a separate cooldown.

That is a lot of utility for something that's simply included in a full dps build. 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Metabattle is not such a good place for guides tbh. I would try Guildjen. That guide right there for example has zero good range. Open world has tons of scenarios where you NEED to exit melee or get chunked. Christ knows why they included Staff as a backup, it's a horribly out dated backup weapon that doesn't work nicely in any game mode. I would switch your primary weapon to shortbow, and make greatsword the backup / cleave option. Vindicator works MUCH better when you can use the alliance movement skills to position away from an opponent and still be able to hit them. That Metabattle build forces you into melee and requires you to pound active defence skills or get deleted. If you need defiance break then shortbow 4/5 plus switching to Dwarf for the taunt is perfectly fine. In fact just dump Shiro for Jalis, again that guide is rubbish! Jalis has four functional skills that provide so much more utility than Shiro's 1 (impossible odds). The others are too expensive and besides, you got Alliance AND greatsword - that's three movement skills. Why do you need more?

Edited Tuesday at 04:23 PM by nosleepdemon.1368

[Rocker.2906]

Although heavy armoured, revenant rewards more of a hit and run playstyle than the sustain/atrittion you might be used to, judging by the other classes you play. 

Also as others have said, if legend swap is available you can use all your 3 heals at once. And depending on the trait, it even restores some endurance. So between vigor, energy melding and legend swaping, you'll be dodging A LOT.

Edited Tuesday at 07:05 PM by Rocker.2906

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

18 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

Tho I do appreciate a good button mashing build too! And most days that's a better fit for me (hence not much play with my revenants). 

Not on topic with the power theme of the post, but a cele spear alliance/mallyx vindi with charged mists can be extremely button spammy. On top of the constant button presses; you get to keep track of 2 (3 if you really count endurance) mechanics with spear stacks and the 10e threshold requirement for CMist. Quite fun if you need a build to capture a bit more attention that others builds barely require you to put forth.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

I disagree with other posters that say Power Vindicator is bad in solo Open World. It's absolutely not you just need to make some smart choices with gearing and you have to understand all of the defensive tools at your disposal. It's an active open world class that rewards mobility and proper positioning; it's not as tanky as its condition variant and thus requires higher skill to pull off effectively.

Easy sustain swaps to help with the build without losing too much of its damage potential -> Zakiros Relic (7% outgoing damage to health). If you need more sustain swap Swift Termination to Dance of Death which will increase your vampirism even more. Alternatively, Sceptre/Shield is an alternative to Staff that has other defensive options that are more valuable for an offensive build. Staff is kind of meh outside of Surge of the Mists. Don't forget you have two heals with short CDs as well and a backup third option in your 2nd legend.

I would personally take between 10-25% boon duration either in small gear swaps (diviners) or through Food. This helps the build maintain its boons a lot better and you don't have to be as precise with them to still stack quickness. Against a single enemy this is valuable.

In combat rotations -> Reaver's Rage (Fury/Might/Quickness/Endurance) -> dodge -> kill kitten -> dodge more -> Reaver's Rage. You don't need to do much more than that to be mostly effective against everything. This will give you permanent quickness/Fury/a lot of might and will ensuring you're dodging frequently. Eternity's Requiem should be used off CD if possible as well for maximum damage. But most of your time and energy should be put in Reaver's Rage and Dodging in Open World.

Energy Meld for extra vigor or extra damage (I personally take the top trait because I don't feel I need the sustain) gives more dodges. If you want more energy to make it even easier to camp Alliance stance (which is optimal for solo) then take middle.

Understand how to swap to St. Viktor quickly for important condi cleanses and heals. Urn also heals you decently when you're low if you need.

Alternative legend doesn't have to be Shiro; Jalis is a more defensive option, but it can be any of them. TBH if you're playing Solo Open World Power Vindicator correctly you'll be on Archemorus for 80% of the time; swapping back and forth doesn't really benefit this build much since it can't maintain 100% quickness without camping Archemorus. It also has easy access to defensive options through St. Viktor. Again, if you need the extra energy gain from swapping just take Energy Meld Middle trait to get energy as you're gimping your damage output anytime you're not in Archemorus (note, this is only for Solo Open World, Raid/Strike rotations it's important to swap).

Tl;DR - Zakiros Relic/Dance of Death & Reaver's Rage/Dodge Spam is pretty much all you need, but the kit has a lot of depth to it that will reward higher skill play if you take the time to learn it

Edited Thursday at 11:01 PM by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Buran.3796]

On 10/25/2024 at 12:57 AM, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I disagree with other posters that say Power Vindicator is bad in solo Open World. It's absolutely not

   Sure, look at this power Vindicator soloing the Herald of Balthazar in 18 seconds:

 

   ...Or this power Vindicator soloing Ignis in 7'31":

 

   ...But sarcssm aside, you'll hardly find out videos of power Vindi soloing anything noticeable in OW or champions/bosses. The list of examples are so low that you need to go some old boring instanced content to have a point to compare:  Fenec's power Vindi did the instanced Arah's Giganticus Lupicus in 1'22" which is the same time Makkoz did with condi Firebrand (one of the lowest dps performers in the whole game) and well away from Dub's 45" with core Guardian (yes, Wall of Reflection, but is a tool, some specs have variety of tools and choices, and that makes them better).

  Is also not only a thing of lack of sustain vs some hard bosses or bounties; power Vindi is quite weak at cceing mobs compared to the condi equivalent, since axe, short bow, spear and Mallyx all have good crowd control skills whereas Vidi's power weapons and legends are terribad at those tasks...

 

[Jobber.6348]

On 10/23/2024 at 3:04 AM, Rocker.2906 said:

Although heavy armoured, revenant rewards more of a hit and run playstyle than the sustain/atrittion you might be used to, judging by the other classes you play. 

Also as others have said, if legend swap is available you can use all your 3 heals at once. And depending on the trait, it even restores some endurance. So between vigor, energy melding and legend swaping, you'll be dodging A LOT.

This goes for all Power builds in OW. Every Power build player is glass and should be playing cautiously to minimize damage they take and Vindicator is actually really good at capitalising on this due to their dodge attack.

Issue is Vindicator lacks many baked in sustain options and the fact their GS has been PvE nerfed before as well as the absolute clunk of Swords that hold it back compared to other classes. 

Also both Alliance heals are channeled garbage that not many encounters can freely allow you to heal its full amount. You have to heavily rely on things like Zakiros to provide increased sustain and that means your damage output is instead stressed to keep you alive. Condition cleanse is another thing to be mindful of because debilitating and damaging Conditions both heavily affect Revenant's damage output, further stressing your already taxed sustain. Swapping to Viktor in a fight is more or less waving a white flag because your DPS just takes a full score triple backflip down into the dirt. 

All these layering factors make Power Revenant highly stressful to play in OW. In contrast, there are other classes that simply cleanses conditions and sustain by doing normal rotation things. The only Power build in OW that has a semblance of relaxed gameplay is actually Renegade with their All for One and Soulcleave. I don't see people play that one much because Renegade has a really stupid playstyle when played solo Power build. (Alot of Soulcleave flicking, using multi hit weapons and timing your skills with your Soulcleave, then swapping out of Soulcleave into Jalis to whale on the target with spinning hammers.)