Do You Raid?

[STIHL.2489]

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.valueThere's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Forumites can debate numbers all we want. I suspect ANet has more interesting numbers, which they are not sharing.

• How much revenue (exclusive of XPac purchases) do players who raid regularly provide?
• How many new paying players (since HoT) now raid?

Those are the numbers I'd like to see. For that matter, I'd also like to see:

• How much revenue (exclusive of XPac purchases) comes from players who avoid raids?

[STIHL.2489]

But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

I don't think it's remotely possible to argue that even 50% of forum posters asked for raids in any form; if anything, there were that many people against it. (Including, incidentally, myself: I expected all sorts of unexpected problems from raids. Instead, the GW2 implementation is ANet style, providing some unexpected benefits and essentially the same issues we had with Dungeons.)

Basically, however we measure things, if we compare apples:apples, 20% suggests a successful venture, especially considering the raid team is tiny.

[marelooke.9708]

Regularly, it's fun. PUGging often seems to bring up the worst in people though so I tend to avoid that (also one of the reasons I avoid Fractals and only dabble in sPvP). I actually wish bosses were harder so statics would become the norm again (like in the good old pre-LFR WoW days) rather than everyone PUGging everything (and then complaining that it's not as smooth as a well oiled team, go figure)

[Blue Hare.8612]

@"STIHL.2489" said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

What if we look at how many want to raid and/or are interested in raids? That would be "regularly 18%", "sometimes 11%", "no group don't want to pug 12%". Assuming that "no group don't want to pug" means "yes, if I had a group". That ads up to 41% which is not too bad of a number.

And if we assume that "other 5%" and "No, tried it but didn't work out 12%" have 50/50 interested and not interested ppl we get 49,5% interested and 47,5% not interested. This is based on the assumption that some of these ppl are interested but due to various circumstances are unable to join raids.

Assumtions aside, I think there is plenty of interest in raids to justify the developement resources put into them. And if I remember right, Anet has stated that they are happy with the raid population, but don't quote me on that.

And yeah, no idea where the missing 3% is...

[FrostDraco.8306]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value

There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

[STIHL.2489]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

[Klipso.8653]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:WvW is the true endgame, and should be treated as such. Out of everything it has the most replayability

I can confirm. When they flip your unmanned tower you can come back and ktrain it back down then leave it unmanned again.

I'm going to assume that you were playing off hours, or had an inexperienced commander. Ktraining is what tags do when they either have nothing to fight in that time zone, or don't know how to fight.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

[STIHL.2489]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

[STIHL.2489]

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value

There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

a TON more people WvW then Raid.

[Khubbo.9067]

dont have 250li/killproof/15000ap for vg

i did used to raid on my magi druid but everyone believes that magi druids are impossible to raid with now. probably thank the brenchmarks for that one

[Blue Hare.8612]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value

There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

a TON more people WvW then Raid.

I have Badges of Honor and I have never set a foot in WvW. There are other ways to obtain them as well.

[Exo.2143]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value

There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

a TON more people WvW then Raid.

You can easily get thousands of Badges of Honors by just doing WvW dailies. WvW dailies have been a good source of the 2 gold and 10 AP for a long time.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"STIHL.2489" said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

[Turin.6921]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

[reddie.5861]

pve bad pvp good, no seriously i just cant stand smashing mindless npc's which any tool can beat with little bit brain power..might fail once or twice but ones u know how shit works u can basically do it eyes closed..

if raids where on WvW i would be on all the time when it spawns but since it spawns in dull dungeon where no1 can harrass you im out.i dont really care for rewards so i dunno why i should even bother going there.only have 1 char with ascended gear rest is all with exotic crap and works perfectly fine in WvW

[reddie.5861]

@Silmar Alech.4305 said:Being forced to do training on the real bosses and only fail while doing this prevents me from further pursuing raid activity. I would very much like to do this kind of instanced organized content, but it's not fun preparing until you have fun. Rising through the fractal ranks and exploring fractal tier after fractal tier up to the challenge modes was fun and entertaining and provided content for a long time. Raid training is not.

I don't understand the concept anyway: PvP for example has a sophisticated matchmaking system to create matches between equally skilled players to get balanced matches, while in a raid, the novice PvE players are put to the endgame super hyper bosses and are expected to learn how to beat them. If matchmaking in PvP works this way and novice PvP players are matched against the world champions, we'd have probably no PvP players any more after the first months of release except the world champions.

sadly match making isnt working as good as you think, and as for raids why u need training?

i mean most bosses work like thistrigger X hp use skill X and Y and movement Ztrigger X HP use skill balabaalabalaba

so if u die everytime on a trigger of X HP u know how to get past it next time u hit that amount of HP.raids are brainless npc's it doesnt require much to beat them.its just a fat HP punchbag.

[STIHL.2489]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

[STIHL.2489]

@Exo.2143 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value

There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

Draw whatever you want from that.

You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

a TON more people WvW then Raid.

You can easily get thousands of Badges of Honors by just doing WvW dailies. WvW dailies have been a good source of the 2 gold and 10 AP for a long time.

LOL... still counts as WvW don't it now?

Hummmmmm....

[Kamara.4187]

My first toon in Guild Wars was made in prophecies. I've always liked Gw's for its competitive play. If I wanted to do raids I'd boot up my old WoW account.

[Turin.6921]

@STIHL.2489 said:They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

[Lunateric.3708]

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

Truth is people that complain as a whole do want something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

[STIHL.2489]

@Turin.6921 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

Except that adding Raids, also meant a revision to the class structure which would affect all other game modes, which was why I was against them to stat with. The way this game as set up mechanically did not bode well to role restricted classes. Pity those "reasonable" players didn't voice up.. and now are stuck stupidly broken OP elite specs in their PvP game modes, and well.. now they are regretting it.