Do You Raid?

[Morwath.9817]

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

Truth is people that complain as a whole

do want

something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

[STIHL.2489]

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

last I looked.. damn near zero.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

You seem to be presuming that everyone voting in the poll asked for raids; the poll is open to everyone. You seem to be presuming that raids were only added because a vocal minority spoke louder than others; that's also not true (ANet has told us they had raids planned for a while; they just couldn't figure out how to add them in a way that suited their concept of GW2).

And finally, you have no way of measuring how many who asked for raids didn't try. We can measure who voted in this poll. We can measure what fraction of people registered on GW2/Efficiency have any amount of LI. But we can't tell who among those voting asked (or did not ask) for raids. We can't tell among those with LI who asked or didn't ask for raids.

All we really know is that most game studios say that few people raid and that ANet says the numbers were higher here (in GW2) than expected.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

last I looked.. kitten near zero.

Sshhh!!! I know that. I'm querying the other guy...

[Turin.6921]

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

[Turin.6921]

@"STIHL.2489" said:. Pity those "reasonable" players didn't voice up.. and now are stuck stupidly broken OP elite specs in their PvP game modes, and well.. now they are regretting it.

Yeah sure cause the PvP and WvW balance issues is becuase the balance devs care more about raids right? Raids compositions were stuck in mirror comps exactly cause of PvP and Wvw balance changes for nearly a year. And for good reason actually. It did not break the game mode for raids and the WvW changes were more important.

You are completely disconnected from the state of the game if you think that raid balance is being taken into account more than the PvP and if you think that is the reason that the balance issues you think are present are becuase of raids. Or are you actually argnuing that the reason for the Elite Spec was solely raids. That is insane. As long as they are keen on not spliting balance these issues would have been present raids or not.

[Lunateric.3708]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

Truth is people that complain as a whole

do want

something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

Those resources already go to other parts of the game so that complaint is unfortunately unfounded and myopic.

The VG guy in Bloodstone Fen, Sloth in Ember Bay, White Mantle mobs in Lake Doric, Eater of Souls and so on.

This mechanic and mob porting doesn't limit itself to raids > open world either, Amala was a fractal port.

I'm all in for discussing ideas but let's not twist stuff to the point it's not an idea but a preconception.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I think the whole concept of how they did raids in GW2 is flawed. As I've stated before it should have been focused on a way to introduce raiders to new (instanced down) PvE maps before they are released as general PvE maps. Raiders should lead strike teams to take new territory along with setting waypoints, merchants, etc. It's a waste building a map just for raids when raids could be done on an instanced down and obfuscated PvE maps. Raids would still be raids but just using PvE maps but PvE players would later get to see the post-raid map but there would be areas where raid teams never went to so there would be plenty of PvE events.

A good example of what I'm talking about is the one personal story instance where the Pale Tree send you to a vision of Orr. It's all foggy and hard to get your bearings. Dragon's Stand is another good example. It looks like it could be a post-raid map. When you get there PACT forces already have encampments in place along with waypoints and forward scouts. As a player we never got to see or experience getting to the raw map, taking down bosses that controlled those areas, setting up encampments and leading teams to setup asura waypoints.

My other problem with raids is the forced random multiplayer instanced content. We need a hero/henchmen system for instanced content (not PvE) much like the one in GW1 but with improved AIs to run them so single players can do raids. I'd like to see a hero system that allows us to pull from our own characters for heroes because we spend time building and equipping them. We should be able to configure each character in its hero panel to perform specific combat tasks like tank, healer, damage dealer, distractor, etc. The biggest problem I see with GW2 AIs is they tend to tank only getting themselves killed quickly. They never fall back to heal while using ranged weapons , attack from the rear of an enemy or fall back to string out the enemies forcing them into a column to make it easier to kill those at the front.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@STIHL.2489 said:

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

ANet rarely listens to naysayers. They also, frequently, add things that minority player demographics ask for.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

You seem to be lumping people who did not ask for raids in with people who did.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

I did not delete their input. You decided to arbitrarily include them in with the, "No way!" demographic when the choice they selected does not mean they did not try raids.

@STIHL.2489 said:

Except that adding Raids, also meant a revision to the class structure which would affect all other game modes, which was why I was against them to stat with.

Citation needed. There were years of posts about changing dungeon/fractal content to prioritize tanking/healing.

[STIHL.2489]

@Turin.6921 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

[Turin.6921]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

MO himself said in an AMA a few months (i think) before PoF that their numbers are nearing 400. They have been hiring the last year it seems.

EDIT: They also refer to it on their wiki page. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet

[Vulf.3098]

@Klipso.8653 said:WvW is the true endgame, and should be treated as such. Out of everything it has the most replayability

There is no true end game mode in this game because PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals etc.. do no provide any noticeable character power increase over someone who just does meta events for an example. As for replayability it is purely based on opinion and preferred way to play the game. I honestly hate WvW and the only reason I did it was only for the gift of battle that is needed for pretty much every legendary in the game otherwise I would never set foot in it along with PvP in general

@Turin.6921 said:The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

Which in itself makes no sense because Elitism and Toxicity existed through Dungeons and open world bosses long before Raids were added to the game. Not really sure why raids got single out regarding that.

[Tolmos.8395]

I used to love doing the raids in GW1, but I’m afraid the feeling here is just... different.

I actually was playing other games when raids really picked up in GW2, and the reputation raiding in this game got is beyond words. They are downright infamous in other communities. That said, I figured I would ignore the rumors give it a go myself. Unfortunately, the first group I ended up in fit most of the stereotypes I had already heard. At that point, I decided raiding just was not for me and left it at that.

Of all the stories that go around, though, I think the most popular/egregious are of fractal groups and the like, which have groups that can boot members towards the end of a run so that they can bring in a friend for the finish. Things like that completely turn me off from wanting to try again, because if that happened to me I can’t say for certain I would want to continue playing at all. I would much rather just miss out on raid content than deal with all that unnecessary virtual drama.

As long as I can keep playing the rest of the game without having to raid, then I’m good. If that changes, it will probably end up running me off, but hopefully that won’t ever be the case. There are plenty of other things to do here!

[FlyingK.9720]

I really just don't like the instanced content in this game, too many dungeon / fractal / raid mechs are just too gimmicky, immersion breaking and just flat out of place for me. I loved raiding in WildStar, loved dungeons in Blade&Soul, but I just plain don't like either in GW2. What GW2 does have that those other games do not is a solid open world experience where I can jump into and out of map metas, world bosses, minor events or even helping others get hero points and the like; generally, I just feel like there's always something to do. Because of that, I would rather see Anet focus on what they are doing right and what sets them apart from the others instead of trying to copycat their competition and be so diverse that nobody is actually having any fun.

[Gabbynot.2654]

been their done that all in wow/ world of warcraft sure not interest at all in doing it in this game . anet can tie all the collections to it that it likes to do still will not do any raiding at all in this game ever !!! like i said done it in wow not doing it here at all. not only that but it breaks a lot of things from the first guild wars which i played since beta . guild wars never ever ever had any raids or even close to raids at all even !!

no to raids in living storys as well too !!! not sure why it is every one and his brother and dumb uncles need to raid .. bad enough with the elitism in this game and the dps meters kitten crap to make the game easy hacked . no matter what they tell you . and if

i wanted to do raids i would go back to playing wow and dump this game !!! but i just happen to really love the pve in this game !!

edit to add some more to this

[STIHL.2489]

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

MO himself said in an AMA a few months (i think) before PoF that their numbers are nearing 400. They have been hiring the last year it seems.

EDIT: They also refer to it on their wiki page.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet

And yet this says.. less then 300.

But even if they had 400 employees, that is nowhere near 400 devs.

[STIHL.2489]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

You seem to be lumping people who did not ask for raids in with people who did.

Yes.. as that would be this community.

[Ashen.2907]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

[STIHL.2489]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

Pitiful really.

[Tolmos.8395]

This is something most MMOs struggle with, now more than ever.

Raids have always been niche. Even in games where raids are the centerpiece, the numbers almost always end up being that 20% or less of people actually raid in any consistent basis. Everyone TRIES raiding, if nothing else just to see the story, but the number of people who actually raid on a weekly basis? Not so much.

Now, this isn't inherently bad. But it does mean that raids rarely meet the expectations of the raiders. Raiders often play a bit more than your average non-raiders, and thus consume the content a bit more quickly. But since they aren't the bulk of the playerbase, they often don't get the resources devoted to them that would be necessary to keep them having fun constantly.

It's been a problem since at least Vanilla WoW, and I doubt it will ever stop being one. Especially as modern players start to have less patience for waiting and grinding, and as more games begin to focus on catering to that crowd to increase revenue.

Raiding is an integral feature of any MMO, and lacking it entirely is akin to lacking PvP entirely. Not everyone religiously plays either, but that doesn't mean either should be ignored.

[VanHalenRules.5243]

Tried doing practice raids with my former guild for one night a year and 1/2 ago because I finally gave in and decided to give it a go with them. I personally am someone who under no circumstances wants to be the guy that screws something up for everyone else because I am behind on knowledge about it compared to the others involved, and that's what I felt like was the case. Also something so easy to mess up is obviously the type of game content that is most likely going to make people become toxic and angry towards those that are not as effective at it as they are, causing something that should be done for fun to become stressful and annoying. It's these reasons why I avoid pvp and raids completely. I don't have patience for people that bash their teammates/allies over the fact that they lost in a video game. Games are for fun, I like to play in an environment that's loose and fun for all involved. Life is too short for a serious game mode. I am interested in doing them, but only with a group that doesn't give a damn whether they win or not, and won't find it a burden if some are not as good as others.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Dreamy Lu.3865 said:

• Required equipment: It is expensive. I already work out equipment for my WvW and Fractals toons. I can't do all at same time. Raid will have to wait.I hope you are aware that fractal and raid gear are usually identical.

I am aware, but it helps only if you use the same class for raid and fractal, what is not my case.

[rwolf.9571]

Raided for 2 months. Even started to do training runs! Then I unlocked the skins I wanted, and never felt the need to play again...The itch came back with the new wing. But seeing how it's currently the hardest content so far, I think I will pass on it.

[Ashen.2907]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that

vocal minority

and even among them.. raids are a minority.

Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

As to those who don't want to raid:

39% "Not interested."

It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said.

even among the community that asked for it

it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

Pitiful really.

A fraction of this community asked for raids.