Anet, Make Ranger spirits unbound. It's about time.

[Chasind.3128]

The spirits are garbage now, please anet- we learned our lesson as you've made a trait so useless, it's a joke. I'd love to be my beastmaster in PvE (bc soulbeast sounds dumb) running with my spirits :confounded:

It needs a little rework, but having them stand still is pointless to their use, as everything in this game is AoE based.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Sadly, spirits got nerfed to oblivion in or around beta or shortly thereafter. Between bleeds, spirit pets, and the two hyenas attacking at equal strength, the damage was pretty insane. It was also THE spec to use in both PvP and PvE. And, in case it wasn't obvious, all three got gutted. Sadly, I don't believe it's ever coming back. If anyone is interested, below is how it worked back-in-the-day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DONqqfXM1uA

Personally? I would love it if spirits became viable again. But, given the ranger's history, I have my doubts. Still . . . it would be nice. :)

[Draeyon.4392]

They also need the spirits to baseline use their active skill on death (they use to do it, but I think it required a trait).

[LughLongArm.5460]

The rev new spec got more or less same issues, I hope that whatever solution they will implement no rev, they will also implement to us.

[Erzian.5218]

Why do they even have to be summons instead of an aura or something. Summons have the disadvantage that they are mostly too weak or too strong, depending on the situation, and only very rarely balanced.

[AEFA.9035]

It's hard to balance spirits cause in pve raids\fractals they're viable. But in pvp where it's capping and the trend is condi spans they're dead right when you summon them making spirits even if traited useless. I don't think there's anything in between if it's a summon in terms of balance. It USED to work in GW1 and it's a game changer but with spirits lesser version in gw2 range of 1000? Really lol. It's trash tier right now.

[Substance E.4852]

@AEFA.9035 said:It's hard to balance spirits cause in pve raids\fractals they're viable. But in pvp where it's capping and the trend is condi spans they're dead right when you summon them making spirits even if traited useless.

The only real reason they are even viable in pve is because Anet changed the way they take damage such that they're basically immortal in all but a few situations.

Killable buff totems was a terrible idea when they're immobile and have a short range.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

I've used a few of them in pvp in the past. In some situations, they are really strong. The stone spirits protection on an already tanky build can practically ignore the dmg from pp thieves and other high power dmg sources.

[Ultima.5210]

make radius of elite Spirit double and health double. traps double the radius as well...

[AEFA.9035]

im going to bump this thread because of new mesmer mechanic https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26687/shattering-the-status-quo

Why can't ANet do the same for spirits since i remember they mentioned they don't like passive game play. If our spirit once activated can have a global effect when I say global, I mean like a really HUGE radius. Open for debate of course.

Sample

Storm Spirit on activation does # damage to enemies (up to 10). Similar to phantasms our spirit would die after activation granting another benefit.sacrifice skill: Call lightning Your storm spirit sacrifices itself dazing foes.alternative Storm Bound Your storm spirit sacrifices itself granting a boon to allies.

Bottom line is, they could do the mechanic I guess its just a matter of will they

[Durzlla.6295]

@"AEFA.9035" said:im going to bump this thread because of new mesmer mechanic https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26687/shattering-the-status-quo

Why can't ANet do the same for spirits since i remember they mentioned they don't like passive game play. If our spirit once activated can have a global effect when I say global, I mean like a really HUGE radius. Open for debate of course.

Sample

Storm Spirit on activation does # damage to enemies (up to 10). Similar to phantasms our spirit would die after activation granting another benefit.sacrifice skill: Call lightning Your storm spirit sacrifices itself dazing foes.alternative Storm Bound Your storm spirit sacrifices itself granting a boon to allies.

Bottom line is, they could do the mechanic I guess its just a matter of will they

Because they’re entirely different? Phantasms were a repeating attack that was balanced around attacking multiple times, at the same time though the Mesmer mechanic was balanced around killing your illusions so that you could deal damage/utility, they were literally conflicting themes.

The problem spirits have isn’t the same, but it is sorta similar. Spirits are stupid squishy, but stupid good buffs, but they have a large range of effect (1k radius is gigantic), however their sacrifice skill required them to be in close proximity to be useful, so you’re either placing the spirit down in the thick of everything and instantly killing it, or you’re putting it down further away in hopes that you’ll get more use out of its active.

Imo the best solution they could do would make it so that their active is a ground targeted effect, so it doesn’t matter where your spirit is placed for its active, and it wouldn’t matter as much if it doesn’t follow you since the spirit can both be placed safely and also be an active skill on your bar at a cost.

[AEFA.9035]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AEFA.9035" said:im going to bump this thread because of new mesmer mechanic

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26687/shattering-the-status-quo

Why can't ANet do the same for spirits since i remember they mentioned they don't like passive game play. If our spirit once activated can have a

global effect

when I say global, I mean like a really HUGE radius. Open for debate of course.

Sample

Storm Spirit

on activation does # damage to enemies (up to 10). Similar to phantasms our spirit would die after activation granting another benefit.sacrifice skill:

Call lightning

Your storm spirit sacrifices itself dazing foes.alternative

Storm Bound

Your storm spirit sacrifices itself granting a boon to allies.

Bottom line is, they could do the mechanic I guess its just a matter of

will they

Because they’re entirely different? Phantasms were a repeating attack that was balanced around attacking multiple times, at the same time though the Mesmer mechanic was balanced around killing your illusions so that you could deal damage/utility, they were literally conflicting themes.

The problem spirits have isn’t the same, but it is sorta similar. Spirits are stupid squishy, but stupid good buffs, but they have a large range of effect (1k radius is gigantic), however their sacrifice skill required them to be in close proximity to be useful, so you’re either placing the spirit down in the thick of everything and instantly killing it, or you’re putting it down further away in hopes that you’ll get more use out of its active.

Imo the best solution they could do would make it so that their active is a ground targeted effect, so it doesn’t matter where your spirit is placed for its active, and it wouldn’t matter as much if it doesn’t follow you since the spirit can both be placed safely and also be an active skill on your bar at a cost.

Had the same idea as well if it can target enemies or ground target it would be good. I just wish it can be global again like in GW1 I feel like we've been deprived for so long and when other classes get these buffs why not ranger

[Durzlla.6295]

@AEFA.9035 well they were never global in GW1 either, they just had a ludicrous range, like way more than any other skill, which made it so you pretty much played hide and go seek with the spirits. But I’m almost positive Anet didn’t want them to function quite like that in GW2 (which is fine) and as they are now they are so so so close to being really nice utility skills, they just need that extra push.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Durzlla.6295 said:@AEFA.9035 well they were never global in GW1 either, they just had a ludicrous range, like way more than any other skill, which made it so you pretty much played hide and go seek with the spirits. But I’m almost positive Anet didn’t want them to function quite like that in GW2 (which is fine) and as they are now they are so so so close to being really nice utility skills, they just need that extra push.

They could just make them the same utility form as spiritweapons are and just call them spirits.Give them charges and make them ground targeted.You attack with the spirit and activate the buff for certain duration. With trait it also triggers the corresponding boon and gives additional charges.Of course they have to change some of the effects too like:StormSpirit: now gives a chance to hit an enemy with a thunder strike that deals dmg and gives vuln.Stone Spirit: Reduces dmg for 10%(i mean you already get protection from the trait)Spirit of Nature: Pulses Heals/condi cleanses and on activation revives one ally (you have charges so you can revive multiple ones)Etc etc.

It would streamline a lot and still would be a great buffing tool with good usability in more gamemodes and builds.

And of course they could make a rune where guards and rangers could profit from but thats not on the main focus here.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Sadly, spirits got nerfed to oblivion in or around beta or shortly thereafter. Between bleeds, spirit pets, and the two hyenas attacking at equal strength, the damage was pretty insane. It was also THE spec to use in both PvP and PvE. And, in case it wasn't obvious, all three got gutted. Sadly, I don't believe it's ever coming back. If anyone is interested, below is how it worked back-in-the-day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DONqqfXM1uA

Personally? I would love it if spirits became viable again. But, given the ranger's history, I have my doubts. Still . . . it would be nice. :)

I forgot what its like to PvP without every single condition on you. The good ol days.

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

• Either make them mobile again OR at LEAST make them ground targeted... Revenants are better spirit rangers than spirit rangers (mobile boonbots herald or ground targetted spirits renegade)

• They need to fix the active cast time... It was GREATLY reduced a few years back and a later update accidentally reverted to the super lengthy cast time

• Fix the boon duration bug on Storm Spirit and Affected Allies for Spirit of Nature

• Spirits should cast their active on summon as now they die from casting their active. With that in mind, keep the Spirit of Nature's 120s cooldown, otherwise

• Lower Spirit of Nature's cooldown - it is already tricky to use due to the summon time AND activation time. 20% reduction sounds fair, would still be 100s

And now this is a personal suggestion but

• Changing Storm Spirit's traited boon from 3s swiftness to 1s of quickness would add even more utility - It's somewhat counter intuitive to grant swiftness on an immobile source... With 1s quickness (up to 2s with 100% boon duration) you bring some nice offensive utility.

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

@ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

• And now this is a personal suggestion but

• Changing Storm Spirit's traited boon from 3s swiftness to 1s of quickness would add even more utility - It's somewhat counter intuitive to grant swiftness on an immobile source... With 1s quickness (up to 2s with 100% boon duration) you bring some nice offensive utility.

Ranger already brings more than enough nice offensive utility. 1 second of quickness every 3 seconds instead of swiftness means 2 druids with 50% boon duration are 100% quickness uptime in PvE raids on top of capping vuln, might, other spirit buffs etc etc. Bringing up to 2/3 quickness uptime in a 1k radius in PvP is also crazy strong.

I have no problem with the current passives or trait. Just need a reason for more active game play of pressing the button a second time. I'd also go for stronger, potentially ground targeted AoE. Examples:Stone spirit: Instant cast stunbreak in an aoe.Storm spirit: Ground targeted lightning storm.Sun spirit: the active is kind of weak but would be ok if it was instant cast around the ranger/targeted. Having a 2 second cast time on a single blind around a spirit with 14k health is bad otherwise. Blinds need to happen fast. If they kept the cast time, it should pulse blind 3 times every 2 seconds (think thief p5).Frost spirit: Im out of ideas but pulsing chill... It doesn't even do damage. Why would anyone activate that right now?Elite is fine.

That way you actually make a choice in PvP. Do I keep 33% dmg reduction up on my team or stunbreak someone but lose prot for 20 seconds? Do I keep the vuln stacks up for increasing sustained damage or spike an area down?

[AEFA.9035]

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@"ProtoMarcus.7649" said:

• And now this is a personal suggestion but
• Changing Storm Spirit's traited boon from 3s swiftness to 1s of
  quickness
  would add even more utility - It's somewhat counter intuitive to grant swiftness on an immobile source... With 1s quickness (up to 2s with 100% boon duration) you bring some nice offensive utility.

Ranger already brings more than enough nice offensive utility. 1 second of quickness every 3 seconds instead of swiftness means 2 druids with 50% boon duration are 100% quickness uptime in PvE raids on top of capping vuln, might, other spirit buffs etc etc. Bringing up to 2/3 quickness uptime in a 1k radius in PvP is also crazy strong.

I have no problem with the current passives or trait. Just need a reason for more active game play of pressing the button a second time. I'd also go for stronger, potentially ground targeted AoE. Examples:Stone spirit: Instant cast stunbreak in an aoe.Storm spirit: Ground targeted lightning storm.Sun spirit: the active is kind of weak but would be ok if it was instant cast around the ranger/targeted. Having a 2 second cast time on a single blind around a spirit with 14k health is bad otherwise. Blinds need to happen fast. If they kept the cast time, it should pulse blind 3 times every 2 seconds (think thief p5).Frost spirit: Im out of ideas but pulsing chill... It doesn't even do damage. Why would anyone activate that right now?Elite is fine.

That way you actually make a choice in PvP. Do I keep 33% dmg reduction up on my team or stunbreak someone but lose prot for 20 seconds? Do I keep the vuln stacks up for increasing sustained damage or spike an area down?

I like the active game play that youre promoting. I hope that we do get them soon, cause honestly its great in PVE but its too passive for me, I'd rather have an actual play with spirits, not like 75% chance to gain this when you hit target that to me is passive play, that's like something that you put in a sigil. Don't even try to put it in a trait cause traits are set in stone and should be game changing and situational.

For starters I like the idea of targeting or ground target for spirit active skills but it needs to be game changing cause you're killing your spirit.

For example:

Storm Spirit: When foes are disabled (taunt, fear, pull, launch, knockdown, daze, float, sink, knockdown) Storm Spirit deals # damage to foes. (radius for spirit should be huge at least double to what it currently has)-----active: Storm Spirit sacrifice itself to daze foes.

PATCH TOMORROW BOYS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j43d80zpxA4

[Durzlla.6295]

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

• And now this is a personal suggestion but
• Changing Storm Spirit's traited boon from 3s swiftness to 1s of
  quickness
  would add even more utility - It's somewhat counter intuitive to grant swiftness on an immobile source... With 1s quickness (up to 2s with 100% boon duration) you bring some nice offensive utility.

Ranger already brings more than enough nice offensive utility. 1 second of quickness every 3 seconds instead of swiftness means 2 druids with 50% boon duration are 100% quickness uptime in PvE raids on top of capping vuln, might, other spirit buffs etc etc. Bringing up to 2/3 quickness uptime in a 1k radius in PvP is also crazy strong.

I have no problem with the current passives or trait. Just need a reason for more active game play of pressing the button a second time. I'd also go for stronger, potentially ground targeted AoE. Examples:Stone spirit: Instant cast stunbreak in an aoe.Storm spirit: Ground targeted lightning storm.Sun spirit: the active is kind of weak but would be ok if it was instant cast around the ranger/targeted. Having a 2 second cast time on a single blind around a spirit with 14k health is bad otherwise. Blinds need to happen fast. If they kept the cast time, it should pulse blind 3 times every 2 seconds (think thief p5).Frost spirit: Im out of ideas but pulsing chill... It doesn't even do damage. Why would anyone activate that right now?Elite is fine.

That way you actually make a choice in PvP. Do I keep 33% dmg reduction up on my team or stunbreak someone but lose prot for 20 seconds? Do I keep the vuln stacks up for increasing sustained damage or spike an area down?

This is pretty much exactly what i want for spirits, do this, especially putting a stun break on Stone Spirit.

One thing they could do for frost spirit is maybe make it pulse chill and slow? or just slap some damage on it if they wanna be lazy...