Scourge nerfs weren't enough

[Ithilwen.1529]

I'm seeing pairs of scourges trashing everything in sight with almost continuous condi nuke. They trade off and cover an area larger than a point with few breaks. This was not a good idea from the start and it's still trashing things.

The cooldowns are too short by half. So a pair of scourges can carpet bomb and there's not much of anything that can be done about it. The overlapping fields are overwhelming. The notion of a huge moving condi field has no place in this pvp.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

That's because (as others keep saying), the scourge isn't the problem, it's the fact you're being hit by more than 1 scourge at once. This is no different than being hit by more than 1 melee at a time. So by players own train of thought, melee needs constant nerfing as well until someone can survive multiple melee hitting them at once.

That answer to your problems against scourge is simple, grab a ranged class, preferably a ranger (Gah I know, a ranger yuck, I can't be seen on that class), because it only takes one ranger, just one, only ONE to eliminate scourge in less than 7 seconds.

It's clearly a player problem, because Scourge has zero defense against range classes, it's the biggest mismatch in the game.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Your argument is fallacious. Two Melee classes together might do similar damage... but the scourges do it over 3 times the area. Yes, it needs a heavy nerf, this is basically continuous coverage with very heavy damage over a broad moving area. There's no justification for that at all.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

Hold on a sec. Why do you keep saying "moving"? Shades don't move. Or has that changed now?

[Flauvious.6195]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:That's because (as others keep saying), the scourge isn't the problem, it's the fact you're being hit by more than 1 scourge at once. This is no different than being hit by more than 1 melee at a time. So by players own train of thought, melee needs constant nerfing as well until someone can survive multiple melee hitting them at once.

That answer to your problems against scourge is simple, grab a ranged class, preferably a ranger (Gah I know, a ranger yuck, I can't be seen on that class), because it only takes one ranger, just one, only ONE to eliminate scourge in less than 7 seconds.

It's clearly a player problem, because Scourge has zero defense against range classes, it's the biggest mismatch in the game.

How are you going to compare scourge abilities to melee? Melee requires you to be right on top of someone compared to scourge long range massive aoe abilities. Youre saying they should be equal strength? This is the kind of nonsense people have been using to try and justify scourge.

And honestly I think scourge isn't so bad anymore, but when people keep using the "Just pick a ranger" excuse for counterplay... how do you not realize how flawed that is? The advice to counter say spellbreaker would be like "dodge the telegraphed cc's, don't burst at 50% hp because passive invuln, and watch for and don't proc full counter." There, you just neutered spellbreaker. These are counterplay strategies anyone on any build can employ to counter a thing. "Pick a specific build on a specific class or else you're just screwed" is not counterplay. It's terrible design.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

"Play Ranger" is just the EZ Mode to counter Scourge. Advice that applies to everyone is "watch when Desert Shroud is up, then go in to fight after it finishes. You have a minimum of 10 seconds of time there where it isn't pulsing. Be ready to back off at that point. It's generally better to not use Stability at all if you can get away with it, as Scourge has poor hard CC outside of corrupting Stability."

[Ithilwen.1529]

Good advice, except that a pair of scourges can trade off and cover each other with no usable break at all. That's way too much.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

In that case, go to another point. Scourges rotate horribly.

If you're dealing with 4+ Scourges on a team, why didn't you swap to something that just hard-counters Scourge? At that point, the opportunity cost is almost nil.

[Trigr.6481]

Your're suggesting nerfs based on class stacking, which is a seperate topic in itself. That being said claiming necro needs to be nerfed solely because of class stacking has to be the weakest argument I've heard in quite a while.

[Gandarel.5091]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:That answer to your problems against scourge is simple, grab a ranged class, preferably a ranger (Gah I know, a ranger yuck, I can't be seen on that class), because it only takes one ranger, just one, only ONE to eliminate scourge in less than 7 seconds.

It's clearly a player problem, because Scourge has zero defense against range classes, it's the biggest mismatch in the game.

That only works vs scourges who play like bots. The moment they start using basic logic and hide behind the nearest obstacle your tactic is useless and so are you.

.. ok to be fair most scourges play like bots, but still.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

cds are too short huh? that's lol. 30sec on desert shroud is pretty big, as are the other ones. outside of double scourges and pocket support I don't expect scourge to be able to sustain itself for very long.

[Axl.8924]

From what i heard, i heard that double pistol thieves with Deadeye are effective vs scourge. since they don't have lots of reflects.

Also:If that logic applies to scourges, Where are the nerfs to every other class to allow necros with the right build and stuff counter every other class? that means thieves/mesmers/Eles/guardians/engis need to be nerfed so necros have a chance to counter them.

Also:If scourge Aoes get nerfed, you have to compensate them, because such a nerf you ask will dig them deep, and then you might as well jsut delete necros entirely from the game.Its not fun for you to be hit with condis and boon corrupt, well it isn't fun for necros to be immobilized by panic strike from thieves and gunned down in seconds by a Deadeye or murdered from afar from a ranger with no chance of retaliation, and having to hide behind someones back like a coward and hope and pray that we have someone to protect us, because we are gimped in 1v1 situations.

[sephiroth.4217]

If you play Warrior, try the build in my Signature. You can facetank 2 Scourges with it.

[xLiFToFF.5938]

I honestly just hate the new scourge constant red effect on areas. It makes it extremely difficulty to see with all the clutter.

[Vague Memory.2817]

I agree a large aoe condi field that travels with the player and condi bombs anything it touches is silly. This is the ultimate in passive play: walking around killing players while doing bugger all. Also having a sniper like Deadeye is equally ridiculous because the maps are pre-Hot and not designed for it meaning there are too many places that provide risk free gameplay (I hesitate to call this PvP) for Deadeye. A sniper class has no place in GW2 PvP either, another daft idea for easy passive play.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Someone Necro'd this thread. Since it has been, I will point out that some of the changes coming with skill splits are similar to those I suggested.

Thank you for taking a close look at it, ANET.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Someone Necro'd this thread. Since it has been, I will point out that some of the changes coming with skill splits are similar to those I suggested.

Thank you for taking a close look at it, ANET.

If those particular changes hit, you'll be making a post identical to this one right after it. They're not changing what needs to be nerfed.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Its not that the scourge nerfs werent enough its that scourge it self is a bad specialization idea. Continuous pulsing aoe as large as the objective it self with the player pulsing and the ability to drop 3 down to keep continuous aoe pulsing damage, continuous corruptions, 15 second fears, just bad ideas in my opinion.I wonder what else was onthe drawing board for the necro spec at the time.

[Turk.5460]

Scourge nerfs to damage and corrupt were enough. What actually needs to be done is have that horrible .5s activation timer on the F-skills removed. I don't even play Scourge, and if anything I'm biased against Scourge. But seriously, those skills don't need an activation time. Maybe a global cooldown, but I advocate a .5s global cooldown for all skills on every profession.

[hazethetiger.4806]

@Turk.5460 said:Scourge nerfs to damage and corrupt were enough. What actually needs to be done is have that horrible .5s activation timer on the F-skills removed. I don't even play Scourge, and if anything I'm biased against Scourge. But seriously, those skills don't need an activation time. Maybe a global cooldown, but I advocate a .5s global cooldown for all skills on every profession.

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