If you could choose the next class to be reworked or improved, which class would it be?

[Vagrant.7206]

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

No, it didn't. Now you're just making stuff up.

June, 2015 update

--Snip--

And in copying and pasting all of this, did you happen to look up or down? Every class got this treatment. You can't single engineer out as getting all the attention when it's very clear every class got the same amount of attention in that update.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

No, it didn't. Now you're just making stuff up.

June, 2015 update

--Snip--

And in copying and pasting all of this,

did you happen to look up or down?

Every class got this treatment, including Necro. You can't single engineer out as getting all the attention when it's very clear every class got attention in that same update.

Not nearly as much. That is my point; quantity. Again; I mained engineer for years so I know what I'm talking about, I made "arena net doesn't care about engineers" and "popularity based patches" threads myself years ago. I've been where you are. I've seen it all play out. And I remember being so excited for the Points of Interest livestream that broke down the dozens upon dozens of small changes the class got, and how different it is today from back that. No it isn't perfect, yes it needs some work done, but it IS vastly improved from back then and yes it has gotten MASSIVELY more attention since those days compared to other classes. Even the recent mesmer update is a drop in the bucket next to everything they did to and for the engineer.

I get it is; it is easy to feel like your main is the one being neglected when you play it all the time and all you see is the bugs. But the simple fact of the matter is YOU. ARE. WRONG. Engineer is NOT the most neglected class. It is NOT the most unbalanced or broken class. And it HAS gotten a relative ton of attention and fixes compared to the other as of the Heart of Thorns rework.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

No, it didn't. Now you're just making stuff up.

June, 2015 update

--Snip--

And in copying and pasting all of this,

did you happen to look up or down?

Every class got this treatment, including Necro. You can't single engineer out as getting all the attention when it's very clear every class got attention in that same update.

Not nearly as much. That is my point; quantity. Again; I mained engineer for years so I know what I'm talking about, I made "arena net doesn't care about engineers" and "popularity based patches" threads myself years ago. I've been where you are. I've seen it all play out. And I remember being so excited for the Points of Interest livestream that broke down the dozens upon dozens of small changes the class got, and how different it is today from back that. No it isn't perfect, yes it needs some work done, but it IS vastly improved from back then and yes it has gotten MASSIVELY more attention since those days compared to other classes. Even the recent mesmer update is a drop in the bucket next to everything they did to and for the engineer.

I get it is; it is easy to feel like your main is the one being neglected when you play it all the time and all you see is the bugs. But the simple fact of the matter is YOU. ARE. WRONG. Engineer is NOT the most neglected class. It is NOT the most unbalanced or broken class. And it HAS gotten a relative ton of attention and fixes compared to the other as of the Heart of Thorns rework.

Could you explain your position in a more patronizing tone? I'm not getting enough patronization yet. You seem to assume I haven't played engineer since launch.

All of the work you just described was to get engineer to a "functional" level, when all the classes were already there to begin with. Engineer was a broken mess, so getting it to a functional level (where it should've been) does not get a pat on the back. It still needs significant work to address underlying issues that ARE STILL AROUND AND HAVE BEEN SINCE LAUNCH.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

No, it didn't. Now you're just making stuff up.

June, 2015 update

--Snip--

And in copying and pasting all of this,

did you happen to look up or down?

Every class got this treatment, including Necro. You can't single engineer out as getting all the attention when it's very clear every class got attention in that same update.

Not nearly as much. That is my point; quantity. Again; I mained engineer for years so I know what I'm talking about, I made "arena net doesn't care about engineers" and "popularity based patches" threads myself years ago. I've been where you are. I've seen it all play out. And I remember being so excited for the Points of Interest livestream that broke down the dozens upon dozens of small changes the class got, and how different it is today from back that. No it isn't perfect, yes it needs some work done, but it IS vastly improved from back then and yes it has gotten MASSIVELY more attention since those days compared to other classes. Even the recent mesmer update is a drop in the bucket next to everything they did to and for the engineer.

I get it is; it is easy to feel like your main is the one being neglected when you play it all the time and all you see is the bugs. But the simple fact of the matter is YOU. ARE. WRONG. Engineer is NOT the most neglected class. It is NOT the most unbalanced or broken class. And it HAS gotten a relative ton of attention and fixes compared to the other as of the Heart of Thorns rework.

Could you explain your position in a more patronizing tone? I'm not getting enough patronization yet. You seem to assume I haven't played engineer since launch.

All of the work you just described was to get engineer to a "functional" level, when all the classes were already there to begin with. Engineer was a broken mess, so getting it to a functional level (where it should've been) does not get a pat on the back. It still needs significant work to address underlying issues that ARE STILL AROUND AND HAVE BEEN SINCE LAUNCH.

And that exact logic is why the engineer ISN'T the class most deserving of the next rework. Because as you just said the engineer is FUNCTIONAL. Know what isn't? Revenant. At least the engineer is FINISHED. It might need to be fixed, but it is at least all there; all of its features are in place, all of its mechanics are at least, as you just said, FUNCTIONAL.

Revnant isn't. It isn't done. It is missing features. Hell we have a whole aspect of the class where even the developers said "meh, nobody cares about that content so just ignore it." Once every class is FUNCTIONAL we can argue about who needs the most BALANCE. Right now just getting to the baseline where it should have been at release point takes priority, and in that contest Revenant wins hands down because as YOU JUST SAID YOURSELF engineer already got that patch.

[Curunen.8729]

Revenant, easy.

I think an interesting mechanic for them would be selectable weapon skills, but limit to one weapon only as was the original design.

So having fixed utilities with a "utility swap" but selectable weapon skills with a single weapon.

Give at least 3 choices for each weapon skill. It would turn the usual skill system on its head regarding utilities and weapon skills, and be pretty interesting from a build perspective. You could have 5 hammer revenants and none of them would have the same combination of hammer skills, for example.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@"Curunen.8729" said:Revenant, easy.

I think an interesting mechanic for them would be selectable weapon skills, but limit to one weapon only as was the original design.

So having fixed utilities with a "utility swap" but selectable weapon skills with a single weapon.

Give at least 3 choices for each weapon skill. It would turn the usual skill system on its head regarding utilities and weapon skills, and be pretty interesting from a build perspective. You could have 5 hammer revenants and none of them would have the same combination of hammer skills, for example.

Heh, just the other day I posted my version of this idea in the rev forum. So it is nice to see other people on the same wavelength.

[Nightmare.1234]

revenant because it feels like it was designed to have no weapon swap and no energy costs on the weapons. then people made a fuss and they gave it weapon swap and tried balance it by eating into the energy management with 2 lots of weapon skills. if weapon swap became legend swap instead and all weapon energy costs got removed and the F1 skill was made into a special summon skill based on the current active legend I would be fine with that.special skillsShiro - summon shiro from the mists to slice through foes stunning each one that he hits within 900 range 3 targetsJails - summon jalis from the mists to smash his hammer into the ground launching foes around you into the air 450 radius 5 targetsVentari - summon ventari from the mists to grant super speed, protection and resistance to allies for 3 seconds in 600 radius 5 targetsmallyx - summon mallyx from the mists to feed on you and your allies conditions, send out a shadowy blast of energy after that inflicts damage based on the number of conditions consumed. 600 radius 5 targets.glint - summon a glint egg from the mists that hatches after 3 seconds granting allies around it a large heal and a light aura 450 radius 5 targetsKalla - summon kalla from the mists to shoot an unblockable flaming arrow that immobilises and inflicts 3 stacks of burning and bleeding to your target for 3 seconds. within 900 radius

[ZDragon.3046]

The only reason i say necro before revenant is because revenant has proper elite specs tuned to allow it to work in other game modes. Its core does suck really hard but the elite specs make up in a way that its playable for sure.Necro on the other hand sits at just the opposite. Also has a weak core like rev but its elite specs are not tuned in a way that lets them make up for having such a weak core.Many of its core problems still follow through I guess you could count scourge if you want to but not everyone here is a WvW player or a fan of scourge.

[Lily.1935]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Necro needs some major tweaks but the general idea is fine.Rev is just a total fustercluck.

That said, I'd really like to see reworks to the stealth mechanic as a whole, as I think that's the biggest thing that needs changing right now.

You've got that backwards. Necromancer is a train wreck. You know why scourge is good at anything? Because it uses almost none of the necromancer's core mechanics except for the occasionally broken one. Life force. The worst thing about scourge is necromancer.... All of it. The best thing about necromancer is scourge. And arena net made scourge a slog to play.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@Lily.1935 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Necro needs some major tweaks but the general idea is fine.Rev is just a total fustercluck.

That said, I'd really like to see reworks to the stealth mechanic as a whole, as I think that's the biggest thing that needs changing right now.

You've got that backwards. Necromancer is a train wreck. You know why scourge is good at anything? Because it uses almost none of the necromancer's core mechanics except for the occasionally broken one. Life force. The worst thing about scourge is necromancer.... All of it. The best thing about necromancer is scourge. And arena net made scourge a slog to play.

Heh, I don't think anyone here is seriously saying that necro doesn't need some attention. Heck from what I've been reading I think it is perfect that it is a solid number two on this poll. That said; revenant is objectively unfinished. That is what I keep coming back to; necro might be broken, but rev is still in beta. We literally have features missing and stuff about the class where even the developer in charge of it said outright "this is just a place holder, we'll come back to it later." That was over two years ago now...

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Necro needs some major tweaks but the general idea is fine.Rev is just a total fustercluck.

That said, I'd really like to see reworks to the stealth mechanic as a whole, as I think that's the biggest thing that needs changing right now.

You've got that backwards. Necromancer is a train wreck. You know why scourge is good at anything? Because it uses almost none of the necromancer's core mechanics except for the occasionally broken one. Life force. The worst thing about scourge is necromancer.... All of it. The best thing about necromancer is scourge. And arena net made scourge a slog to play.

Heh, I don't think anyone here is seriously saying that necro doesn't need some attention. Heck from what I've been reading I think it is perfect that it is a solid number two on this poll. That said; revenant is objectively unfinished. That is what I keep coming back to; necro might be broken, but rev is still in beta. We literally have features missing and stuff about the class where even the developer in charge of it said outright "this is just a place holder, we'll come back to it later." That was over two years ago now...

Which is the point I'm similarly going by. I'd put reaper as my top pick because I mained it and love it and want to see it fixed since it basically was systematically removed from the game, but the revenant isn't cohesive, has a lot of skills that are just downright un-fun to play into, and barely makes sense as a concept overall. Even if it's stronger than necromancer in some aspects as a whole, it's incomplete and probably warrants the most revision.

Most of the necro's woes have nothing to do with the class itself but rather the environments it's in. Unless they completely change the identity of the necro (likely effectively removing it from the PvP scenes), to fit different environments instead of what it does now, it'll remain this way.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

As a revenant player - last thing i want is a single weapon. 2 weapons, two legends = 4 skill sets to use. That is awesome and lets me adjust to situation.Remind me how am i supposed to fight when enemy jumps me when i have hammer and only hammer on me?Or am i supposed to just /sleep when enemy zerg and mine in wvw are trading ranged blows, because i got swords equipped?

[Curunen.8729]

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:As a revenant player - last thing i want is a single weapon. 2 weapons, two legends = 4 skill sets to use. That is awesome and lets me adjust to situation.Remind me how am i supposed to fight when enemy jumps me when i have hammer and only hammer on me?Or am i supposed to just /sleep when enemy zerg and mine in wvw are trading ranged blows, because i got swords equipped?

You've currently got 2 fixed weapons and two fixed utility sets.

If you had customisable weapon skills it would allow choice of skills you want to use on each weapon, similar to how other classes have customisable utility slots. Yes it means only "3" skill sets to use (as a mesmer 3 skill sets is normal - ie 2 weapons and 1 utility set), but the detail would be in how each skill is balanced. The Legends then become "weapons" (fixed skills) and weapons become "utilities". Energy management and cooldowns would have to be adjusted accordingly, and careful consideration as to how it should play with would be needed.

It would be a big job, but certainly would make revenant very unique compared with every other class. I mean it was never intended to have weapon swap - like the heave version of engi and ele, but it got tacked on as a band aid fix. With more resources and time to redesign I think it could be more interesting following the original design route.

[Arheundel.6451]

People say revenant but...the last time they tried anything on rev..we had 2 pet team in pvp and they were 1v1 kings in wvw...and there were thousand of them

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:As a revenant player - last thing i want is a single weapon. 2 weapons, two legends = 4 skill sets to use. That is awesome and lets me adjust to situation.Remind me how am i supposed to fight when enemy jumps me when i have hammer and only hammer on me?

Probably the same way a staff elementalist does?

-sings like a cheerleader-

Give me a K!-K!Give me an I!-I!Give me a T!-T!Give me an E!-E!

What's that spell?-Kite!

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Necro needs some major tweaks but the general idea is fine.Rev is just a total fustercluck.

That said, I'd really like to see reworks to the stealth mechanic as a whole, as I think that's the biggest thing that needs changing right now.

You've got that backwards. Necromancer is a train wreck. You know why scourge is good at anything? Because it uses almost none of the necromancer's core mechanics except for the occasionally broken one. Life force. The worst thing about scourge is necromancer.... All of it. The best thing about necromancer is scourge. And arena net made scourge a slog to play.

Heh, I don't think anyone here is seriously saying that necro doesn't need some attention. Heck from what I've been reading I think it is perfect that it is a solid number two on this poll. That said; revenant is objectively unfinished. That is what I keep coming back to; necro might be broken, but rev is still in beta. We literally have features missing and stuff about the class where even the developer in charge of it said outright "this is just a place holder, we'll come back to it later." That was over two years ago now...

Which is the point I'm similarly going by. I'd put reaper as my top pick because I mained it and love it and want to see it fixed since it basically was systematically removed from the game, but the revenant isn't cohesive, has a lot of skills that are just downright un-fun to play into, and barely makes sense as a concept overall. Even if it's stronger than necromancer in some aspects as a whole, it's incomplete and probably warrants the most revision.

Most of the necro's woes have nothing to do with the class itself but rather the environments it's in. Unless they completely change the identity of the necro (likely effectively removing it from the PvP scenes), to fit different environments instead of what it does now, it'll remain this way.

Yeah, remember back when our Demon Stance was intended to play like the necro's corruption line, infecting conditions on itself to increase its power stat and mitigating the damage through the resistance boon? A boon created specifically for that class and play style. Or how about when Unyelding Anguish was a forced shadow step on your target, making it one of the most unique control skills in the game? That pretty much shows you the issues with Revenant; someone had some cool ideas, built a lot of mechanics and sub-systems specifically to facilitate those ideas...then couldn't figure out how to balance it and scrapped the whole thing. I mean just think about how much of the new stuff that game with Heart of Thorns exists specifically BECAUSE of the revenant: resistance, the new break bar system, taunting, unlocking the camera from the character for certain skill effects...all of that is because of revenant. And yet the revenant itself remains unfinished.

[Dadnir.5038]

All professions have areas that need to be looked at. However, as far as we talk about "rework", for me it mean touching to the main profession's mechanism.

• Elementalists, don't need their profession mechanism to be reworked.
• Engineer, is the same as the elementalist in this regard, toolbelt is fine.
• Guardian's mechanism is "ok".
• Mesmer's shatter just got reworked so let it be.
• Necromancer's shroud and shades do need a rework
• Ranger's pets need a lot of work.
• Revenant legend's system need some love but maybe not a rework.
• Thief's initiative is fine as is.
• Warror's adrenaline system is a bit bland but each e-spec use it pretty well so it seem fine as is (better not break something that work fine)

[Swagg.9236]

The spec system was an utter failure. Compress all of a respective class' specs into a single, flexible line with multiple, playstyle-directing options; repeat for all classes. Delete Revenant.

[nopoet.2960]

Revenant. I've played every class but just couldn't get into that profession. It's just weird.

[Zekvich.6701]

Revenant is the only one I would like to change really that i've had some experience playing. When I played HoT I wanted to switch to main a rev as I really liked the theme that they have especially the whole uses weapons differently thing they have going on however the combat mechanics of the profession just didn't ever feel smooth to me. I read that herald made the profession play smoother but it felt the opposite to me.

The mechanics I don't understand/don't feel comfortable using are;

• thief style initiative but with cooldowns as well
• upkeep being there all the time but only really used a lot with herald
• energy being used by everything and not a huge pool of it to start fights with either which makes you have to choose more wisely in your actions
• why didn't every legend have a cool visual form like mallyx
• took away utility freedom, I didn't mind having locked utilities to legends but I don't feel like the base amount of legends are enough to compensate even with swapping between 2

[Xruptor.3965]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Jinn Galen.2468 said:Would you look at that, necro and rev at the top. You should take a hint Anet.

These polls are popularity contests. Most people recognize that Rev needs help, but necro is one of the more popular classes. Very few people vote engineer, because most have no interest in the class. :)

If ArenaNet based their decisions solely on popularity of a class, engineer would have already been deleted.

This pretty much sums it up. Engineer has been a broken mess since launch. Turrets need a complete rework as well as many of the kits that haven't been updated. There is so much I can list here that needs to be fixed, but I'll just point to Scrapper and core engi kits.

Also I also want to give a point towards Revenant. That class seriously needs a revamp too..

[Jinn Galen.2468]

You people should stop arguing whether other classes need to be reworked/improved. The question in the poll is who should be first. If Rev gets picked, great. But that doesn't mean the others shouldn't get improvements. If Necro or Engi gets picked first, that's great too. But it shouldn't stop there. Stop pulling each other down lol. We all benefit from Anet fixing professions.

[Unknown.3976]

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

No, it didn't. Now you're just making stuff up.

June, 2015 update

--Snip--

And in copying and pasting all of this,

did you happen to look up or down?

Every class got this treatment, including Necro. You can't single engineer out as getting all the attention when it's very clear every class got attention in that same update.

Not nearly as much. That is my point; quantity. Again; I mained engineer for years so I know what I'm talking about, I made "arena net doesn't care about engineers" and "popularity based patches" threads myself years ago. I've been where you are. I've seen it all play out. And I remember being so excited for the Points of Interest livestream that broke down the dozens upon dozens of small changes the class got, and how different it is today from back that. No it isn't perfect, yes it needs some work done, but it IS vastly improved from back then and yes it has gotten MASSIVELY more attention since those days compared to other classes. Even the recent mesmer update is a drop in the bucket next to everything they did to and for the engineer.

I get it is; it is easy to feel like your main is the one being neglected when you play it all the time and all you see is the bugs. But the simple fact of the matter is YOU. ARE. WRONG. Engineer is NOT the most neglected class. It is NOT the most unbalanced or broken class. And it HAS gotten a relative ton of attention and fixes compared to the other as of the Heart of Thorns rework.

Could you explain your position in a more patronizing tone? I'm not getting enough patronization yet. You seem to assume I haven't played engineer since launch.

All of the work you just described was to get engineer to a "functional" level, when all the classes were already there to begin with. Engineer was a broken mess, so getting it to a functional level (where it should've been) does not get a pat on the back. It still needs significant work to address underlying issues that ARE STILL AROUND AND HAVE BEEN SINCE LAUNCH.

And that exact logic is why the engineer ISN'T the class most deserving of the next rework. Because as you just said the engineer is FUNCTIONAL. Know what isn't? Revenant. At least the engineer is FINISHED. It might need to be fixed, but it is at least all there; all of its features are in place, all of its mechanics are at least, as you just said, FUNCTIONAL.

Revnant isn't. It isn't done. It is missing features. Hell we have a whole aspect of the class where even the developers said "meh, nobody cares about that content so just ignore it." Once every class is FUNCTIONAL we can argue about who needs the most BALANCE. Right now just getting to the baseline where it should have been at release point takes priority, and in that contest Revenant wins hands down because as YOU JUST SAID YOURSELF engineer already got that patch.

What r you on about? Engineers are finished? Engineers are BARELY functional, just look at its' build diversity, there's almost no build diversity at all. Turrets, gyros, tool kit, elixir gun kit, med kit, mortar kit do not see any play at all becuz they are terribly lacking. Elixirs are worthless and redundant in PvE becuz there are other classes that can boon-share very effectively. U cannot claim that a class is finished when a vast majority of its' skills are not utilised in any game modes, those skills are not utilised becuz they do not serve any FUNCTION. Holosmith has given Engineer a shiny coat of paint but the core class is in a bad shape. I do agree with you that Rev needs a rework but do not attempt to downplay Engie problems.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

@Unknown.3976 said:Engineers are BARELY functional

Barely functional is still FUNCTIONAL.

[Unknown.3976]

@Arkham Creed.7358 said:

@Unknown.3976 said:Engineers are BARELY functional

Barely functional is still FUNCTIONAL.

And we're supposed to accept that? Scrapper and core Engie are near mythical in PvE, u hardly see any folks running these builds, and for good reason. Despite the myriad of patches and updates, core engie never hit the right spot, it's class choke full of half-baked ideas and half-hearted execution, pretty much in the same vein as rev. Holosmith is a band-aid for its' primary class, much like renegade.