PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

[Jerry CCH.9816]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

Just confused. No any change about warrior Winds of Disenchantment skill ?

1. Huge Radius
2. Unblockable
3. Short cool down 90s ( Mes Time Warp 180s "
4. Boon Remove
5. Projectiles entering are destory

how kind imba skill B)

[Shirlias.8104]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@"Shazmataz.1423" said:A general comment.Please, when making any changes keep diversity of builds in mind. It is boring to have to be a "certain" build to be competitive. Please make it so that all builds can be competitive in their way. Diversity is the spice of life.

I think the opposite.

We know that SPvP is unbalanced because many reasons:

• Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).
• Different Builds
• Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.
• All game modes share all skills

Given the fact that they are now starting to separate skills from the 3 modalities, here what would be the new situation

• Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).
• Different Builds
• Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.
• All game modes share all skills

Now they want to point at build diversity, but instead i suggest both developers and players to stop for a moment and think about what is mostly needed.

Diversity or Balance?

Imho, since it's clear that a mmo can't provvide diversity and balance altogether ( not GW2 fault, but the RPG elements which are part of every single mmo ), i would prefer to have 9 different classes with a standard build, weapon set, neck, sigils and that SPvP team continue to work on them in order to incrase the balance the more the time passes.

Diversity brings more problems than advantages, expecially in what should have been a competitive mode.

I will definitely prefer to play with the same 9 classes and get more skilled with all of em than have to change the build because of the meta reasons ( yesterday staff was op, now sword and scepter. Tomorrow focus and warhorn ).

Players should ask themselves what they mostly need, and if they would be ok to sacrifice something in order to achieve that goal or not.Currently you can play the build you want, and try everything, but it's not fun because:

• You are not competitive.
• You are matched with players which are "experimenting something new".
• You could find them in the opposite team, having an easy match instead of a competitive one
• Players won't be able to learn a class because they will always change something, and they indeed will become less skilled i compared to the "chose your class only" scenario.
• There will be way less balance if compared to a base character selection. Always.

Splitting the skills between SPvP and the rest is a good step.Now please realize that in order to achieve balance you need to sacrifice something else ( and that in a competitive gameplay balance is supposed to be the first goal, before diversity and whatever else ).

Proper balance can bring proper diversity.

But without diversity you will have way more balance.There's no confront between static build balance and free builds balance.

[mov.1246]

Engi:I am just referring to the WVW changes. I play engi since vanilla and done over 2k WVW level just with my engi.

This changes will delete every engi in WVW, because this nerfs to holo will not open the way for ther builds, it will obliberate one of the few serious builds we have.Engi is not part of the WVW meta, how many engis do you see in WVW dear devs? When i join a full squad i am mostly the only one, or maybe there is one or two more, but thats it.The 40% nerf to PF aa, are you serious? Holo is meant to be a high risk high reward specc, and you cut the damage coefficient by nearly the half? Really, this is too much. It would be ok by 20% but not 40%.For holographic shockwave you should remove the 100% crit chance and dont reduce the damage.The stability change on eclipse is bad. Most engineers use this skill before entering combat to be not instant CCed when the fight begins.The nerf to minesweeper, Holo leap and vent exhaust are ok, this skills/traits are overperforming.The changes to condi wont make it viable. Everyone is running tons of condi cleanse in WVW and engi has good condi damage, but mostly by burning. It will be cleared within some secounds. The standard core condi build uses PP+Rocket kick as damage skills, maybe prybar. That means, you cant spam your skills and must use them well thought. But with all the condi clears in WVW condi engi isnt viable now.The mortar isnt meant to be a DPS kit. Its just there to drop combo fields and destroy siege. Buffing the damage wouldnt change this. You should better buff grenade kit instead mortar.Core engi and scrapper are left behind holo smith.Nerfing holo to the ground wont make the other speccs viable because there is less synergy between the traits (especially core) and they are simply too weak and underperforming. Some thoughts about speccs and the viability in WVW:

Holo:Solo: is a very good solo roamer, and is pretty strong in 1v1. And thats what holo is meant to be.Smallscale: The holo shines here also very well, due to great single target pressure and CC the holo is definitely a solid pick in smallscale fights.Bigscale: Holo has too less survivability to stand in big fights, but could fill a role when pressuring the other backline or people walking to far away from their zerg.

Scrapper:Solo: bad, due to lacking burst damage and missing mobility, every other class with some mobility and ranged damage will outplay the scrapper easily.Smallscale: thats what scrapper is designed for, support the group, make some pressure, revive/stomp, and pretty tanky.Bigscale: semi good, gyros die too fast. Traits and skills arent designed to survive at the frontline. But could fill the role of a midline supporter.

Core:Solo: condi is weak, because everyone is running tons of cleanse. Power builds arent viable due to less damage and less survivability.Smallscale: maybe a power grenadier could be some sort of viable, but holo is a much better DPS with more CC.Bigscale: the same here, condi has no chance, and projectile hate makes grenades, mortar, and rifle almost everytime not useable.

So, now we see is that engi has no place in bigscale meta. The only serious roles for engi are a scrapper supporter/tank or a DPS holo. And here is the point, why do u think this massive damage nerf to holo would make other builds viable? Holo is meant to be a burst specc, it is meant to be high risk and high reward, and it should be very strong in small fights.

Please recondiser your changes to holo, because THIS will not open build diversity. This will decimate the amount of engineers playing WVW even more.

[Ghos.1326]

@liurencija.2684 said:Okay so... After playing holosmith in wvw for quite a while now, I came to love this class very very much. Seeing the changes made to engi makes me wonder if anet even cares for this class at all and if they make ''balances'' to it based only on other people's complaints.Holosmith is already an unviable class for zergs in the current wvw condi meta, having low damage, extremely low survivability and self sustain compared to other classes like scourge or spellbreaker. Why nerf it even more? Seriously, ruining the only skill that gives stability, not giving any proper condi cleanses and even reducing the main source of damage is not simply nerfing an already disadvantaged class, it's putting a final nail to its coffin.Since I don't play pvp often, I really can't say much about the effect these changes have there, but if holosmiths are indeed so OP in pvp as many say, why include these nerfs in wvw?

Not sure what kind of holosmith you are playing that has low damage, and extremely low survivability and self sustain, but any holosmith I have run into has a brontosaurus poop ton of damage and survivability, thanks to the heat mechanic/perma stab on corona burst. These changes are much needed. I myself play an Engineer, and if another Engineer agrees that corona burst's perma stab is a problem, then it's gotta be a problem. Holosmith is supposed to be a damage dealing spec, both bursting and sustained damage. Giving it perma stab would then put it in a position to fulfill both of these roles with the utmost expertise, with no counterplay or drawbacks. Just CC them you say? How? They have perma stab, remember? Causing the stab to be applied on hit is good, and if they did keep stab off hit, then reducing its uptime is essential, else, once a holosmith gets going (corona burst before jumping in), there is no stopping him before he bursts your poor body from full to pieces within 3 seconds.

[Ghos.1326]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@"Shazmataz.1423" said:A general comment.Please, when making any changes keep diversity of builds in mind. It is boring to have to be a "certain" build to be competitive. Please make it so that all builds can be competitive in their way. Diversity is the spice of life.

I think the opposite.

We know that SPvP is unbalanced because many reasons:

• Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).
• Different Builds
• Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.
• All game modes share all skills

Given the fact that they are now starting to separate skills from the 3 modalities, here what would be the new situation

• Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).
• Different Builds
• Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.
• All game modes share all skills

Now they want to point at build diversity, but instead i suggest both developers and players to stop for a moment and think about what is mostly needed.

Diversity or Balance?

Imho, since it's clear that a mmo can't provvide diversity and balance altogether ( not GW2 fault, but the RPG elements which are part of every single mmo ), i would prefer to have 9 different classes with a standard build, weapon set, neck, sigils and that SPvP team continue to work on them in order to incrase the balance the more the time passes.

Diversity brings more problems than advantages, expecially in what should have been a competitive mode.

I will definitely prefer to play with the same 9 classes and get more skilled with all of em than have to change the build because of the meta reasons ( yesterday staff was op, now sword and scepter. Tomorrow focus and warhorn ).

Players should ask themselves what they mostly need, and if they would be ok to sacrifice something in order to achieve that goal or not.Currently you can play the build you want, and try everything, but it's not fun because:

• You are not competitive.
• You are matched with players which are "experimenting something new".
• You could find them in the opposite team, having an easy match instead of a competitive one
• Players won't be able to learn a class because they will always change something, and they indeed will become less skilled i compared to the "chose your class only" scenario.
• There will be way less balance if compared to a base character selection. Always.

Splitting the skills between SPvP and the rest is a good step.Now please realize that in order to achieve balance you need to sacrifice something else ( and that in a competitive gameplay balance is supposed to be the first goal, before diversity and whatever else ).

Proper balance can bring proper diversity.

But without diversity you will have way more balance.There's no confront between static build balance and free builds balance.

This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

[Ragmon.6350]

This a very bad use for "Skill Split". This approach should be only used on skills and traits that have drastically different effectiveness in the game modes.Best example for this is Confusion, just make use the old Confusion in PvE and the latest version in PvP.Or reducing the AOE radius of the Scourge skills in PvP but leaving them as is in PvE.

Sigh, Anet what happened to the PvP team after they stopped working on GW1's PvP system?

[Ghos.1326]

@mov.1246 said:Engi:I am just referring to the WVW changes. I play engi since vanilla and done over 2k WVW level just with my engi.

This changes will delete every engi in WVW, because this nerfs to holo will not open the way for ther builds, it will obliberate one of the few serious builds we have.Engi is not part of the WVW meta, how many engis do you see in WVW dear devs? When i join a full squad i am mostly the only one, or maybe there is one or two more, but thats it.The 40% nerf to PF aa, are you serious? Holo is meant to be a high risk high reward specc, and you cut the damage coefficient by nearly the half? Really, this is too much. It would be ok by 20% but not 40%.For holographic shockwave you should remove the 100% crit chance and dont reduce the damage.The stability change on eclipse is bad. Most engineers use this skill before entering combat to be not instant CCed when the fight begins.The nerf to minesweeper, Holo leap and vent exhaust are ok, this skills/traits are overperforming.The changes to condi wont make it viable. Everyone is running tons of condi cleanse in WVW and engi has good condi damage, but mostly by burning. It will be cleared within some secounds. The standard core condi build uses PP+Rocket kick as damage skills, maybe prybar. That means, you cant spam your skills and must use them well thought. But with all the condi clears in WVW condi engi isnt viable now.The mortar isnt meant to be a DPS kit. Its just there to drop combo fields and destroy siege. Buffing the damage wouldnt change this. You should better buff grenade kit instead mortar.Core engi and scrapper are left behind holo smith.Nerfing holo to the ground wont make the other speccs viable because there is less synergy between the traits (especially core) and they are simply too weak and underperforming. Some thoughts about speccs and the viability in WVW:

Holo:Solo: is a very good solo roamer, and is pretty strong in 1v1. And thats what holo is meant to be.Smallscale: The holo shines here also very well, due to great single target pressure and CC the holo is definitely a solid pick in smallscale fights.Bigscale: Holo has too less survivability to stand in big fights, but could fill a role when pressuring the other backline or people walking to far away from their zerg.

Scrapper:Solo: bad, due to lacking burst damage and missing mobility, every other class with some mobility and ranged damage will outplay the scrapper easily.Smallscale: thats what scrapper is designed for, support the group, make some pressure, revive/stomp, and pretty tanky.Bigscale: semi good, gyros die too fast. Traits and skills arent designed to survive at the frontline. But could fill the role of a midline supporter.

Core:Solo: condi is weak, because everyone is running tons of cleanse. Power builds arent viable due to less damage and less survivability.Smallscale: maybe a power grenadier could be some sort of viable, but holo is a much better DPS with more CC.Bigscale: the same here, condi has no chance, and projectile hate makes grenades, mortar, and rifle almost everytime not useable.

So, now we see is that engi has no place in bigscale meta. The only serious roles for engi are a scrapper supporter/tank or a DPS holo. And here is the point, why do u think this massive damage nerf to holo would make other builds viable? Holo is meant to be a burst specc, it is meant to be high risk and high reward, and it should be very strong in small fights.

Please recondiser your changes to holo, because THIS will not open build diversity. This will decimate the amount of engineers playing WVW even more.

Scrapper is not supposed to have burst damage....why does everything need burst damage? just no.holo is supposed to be damage spec, period. but not both sustained and burst damage together. depending on traits, it can be either or. the issue right now, is that it can be both thanks to corona burst's perma stab, simply by using it. this will cause engis to really feel what high risk high reward is when rolling holo. i agree with core though, not too strong, though some interesting builds can be forged from it.Also, ranged damage is nothing compared to scrapper with a hammer. there is also bulwark gyro. projectile hate to its extreme. plus gap closers.

[Etaoin.4362]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

• Rugged Growth: Leave the healing alone but remove its ability to generate Astral Force. This will still reduce the survivability of Druid but doesn't affect the entire class as a result.

That could work, and it would keep with the vision of altering elite specs while preserving core traits, but I'm guessing it's unlikely for two reasons. For one, it would require some changes to the coding of how AF generation works (Is there any precedent for ANet making these sorts of changes?). For two, and relatedly, it would be inconsistent for how healing generates AF, and I doubt ANet will go down that sort of path.

That said, another possibility is that ANet could just re-balance the numbers for how AF generation works in general in a way that would allow RG to remain untouched while slowing the druid's survivability to reasonable levels for sPvP.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

[T G.7496]

I'm interested in the direction you're going overall with these changes, but to focus on Scourge for a moment (which is my main WvW class)...

I'm disappointed, after the other recent nerfs (which actually I think were pretty much ok), that your approach here seems to be simply 'increase CDs':

• Garish Pillar by 33% (hmmm, well I can see you're just rounding up to the nearest 5s CD increment for convenience I suppose, but 33% seems hefty).
• Desert Shroud by 50% (seriously !? you're going to apply this to a necromancer's access to it's shroud, a class-defining feature).
• Ghastly Breach by 25% (I'm actually ok with this - it's much more in line with other elites, which should only be occasional use).
• Trail of Anguish by 40% (another choice I really can't get behind; it's my only access to speed and stability; if you think it's OP, just remove/reduce the offensive aspects of the utility - I wouldn't have any problem with that at all - but I have terrible mobility already and culling what I do have by 40% gets a nope from me)

Seriously, these CD increases (especially Shroud and Trail of Anguish) just come across as a lazy nerf. I hate to say that, since you've seemed more energised on the old balance front recently, but can you really not find a better way to finesse the changes you want to see? If you think some aspects of a class need mitigating, can't you refine some base values/coefficients for guilty traits and skills without fooling about with the rhythm of how a class plays? Waiting for class-defining cooldowns is not particularly fun gameplay, 11111111.

Having said all that, some of the other changes (in both directions) are interesting.Best,~TG

[Ghos.1326]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

Feel free then to explain how, in terms of balance, a system which consists in random templates with random elements could be at least balanced as one with X static characters, with no customization.

[Ghos.1326]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

Feel free then to explain how, in terms of balance, a system which consists in random templates with random elements could be at least balanced as one with X static characters, with no customization.

Having different professions become viable with different generations of codes, which include the binary digits 1 and 0, could cause proper balance to fall into place and occur simultaneously, by having more options for desired gameplay instead of trapping said professions in a constant state of operating under the dictating laws of said 1s and 0s. You tweak a few things in aspects of one build, and tweak a few things in aspects of other builds, to meet a general balance. Now balance does not need to mean it is all the same. you see, balance also means:1) roles not overstepping their boundaries (e.g. holosmith with perma stab, making it sort of a bursting tank. perform greatly in one, while decently in the other, that is the remedy, not greatly in both.)2) being strong and weak to certain other roles and build choices (e.g. support beats condi, however due to lack of defense, support can't beat burst damage, etc etc)3) numbers (see what i did there? i numbered this all for you, "astronomer")4) science5) potions and elixirs (kk enough trolling)I am more than familiar with computer programming and code generation, as I myself am studying to become a software engineer. If you are attempting to sound brilliant, i'd hold your tongue if I were you. =P

[cyberwolf.5830]

Can we have Infiltrator's Return to cure one more condition?And Cloack and Dagger to also do daze?

[Shirlias.8104]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

Feel free then to explain how, in terms of balance, a system which consists in random templates with random elements could be at least balanced as one with X static characters, with no customization.

Having different professions become viable with different generations of codes, which include the binary digits 1 and 0, could cause proper balance to fall into place and occur simultaneously, by having more options for desired gameplay instead of trapping said professions in a constant state of operating under the dictating laws of said 1s and 0s. You tweak a few things in aspects of one build, and tweak a few things in aspects of other builds, to meet a general balance. Now balance does not need to mean it is all the same. you see, balance also means:1) roles not overstepping their boundaries (e.g. holosmith with perma stab, making it sort of a bursting tank. perform greatly in one, while decently in the other, that is the remedy, not greatly in both.)2) being strong and weak to certain other roles and build choices (e.g. support beats condi, however due to lack of defense, support can't beat burst damage, etc etc)3) numbers (see what i did there? i numbered this all for you, "astronomer")4) science5) potions and elixirs (kk enough trolling)I am more than familiar with computer programming and code generation, as I myself am studying to become a software engineer. If you are attempting to sound brilliant, i'd hold your tongue if I were you. =P

I am still waiting here.When you feel ok providing reasons to the question i asked you, i will be delighted to read them.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:A message from the Competitive and Skills & Balance Teams:

With this set of proposed changes, we'd like to get your thoughts and ideas on both our high level goals and how we're going about accomplishing them. You guys may bring up concerns or thoughts we didn't consider. While reviewing these changes, please consider them as a whole rather than focusing on individual classes.

Necromancer

Skills

• Well of Blood: Increased the base heal from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the heal per pulse from 280 to 490 (+75%) in PvP and WvW
• Well of Suffering: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Increased the amount of Vulnerability applied per pulse from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in

With necromancer you seem to have left out 2 very important wells actually 3 well skills in this split.At the very least these should be considered as they are far over due for some QoL and could be optimized for better use in PvP and WvW just as you have done with Well of blood and Well of suffering

Well of power(its been buggy sense day 1 due to have a cast time please remove it and just make it an instant break-stun like any other break-stun.)Additionally the amount of condi bomb in WvW and PvP is insane this well should easily have been updated at the minimum just before PoF to cleanse 2 conditions per pulse into boons.

Well of corruptionBoons have been extra plentiful in this game sense Hot and even more so sense PoF This well should have been updated to eat 2 boons into conditions per pulse.

Well of darknessThis well needs a much shorter cooldown it only applies a blind at a very slow rate i might add and nothing more.

Traits

• Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

Considering that alot of other traits in other professions that work on disable got moved to 60 seconds i dont see a good reason for moving this one to 90 when it was already at 60. (much higher average than other professions on disable traits before this suggestion) It wont break your stun and in many cases its the trigger that triggers other professions on disable ignores such as shared anguish or passive balanced stance.Its also in a very underused traitline that does not match well with most necromancer builds. I would consider reverting this idea and leaving the cooldown at 60 seconds.

• Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP onlyI think moving this to 60 would have been fine 75 seconds seems excessive once again compared to other professions this is not exactly life saving trait just some protection mostly. No damage ignore, avoid, or stability is built into this.

[Ghos.1326]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

Feel free then to explain how, in terms of balance, a system which consists in random templates with random elements could be at least balanced as one with X static characters, with no customization.

Having different professions become viable with different generations of codes, which include the binary digits 1 and 0, could cause proper balance to fall into place and occur simultaneously, by having more options for desired gameplay instead of trapping said professions in a constant state of operating under the dictating laws of said 1s and 0s. You tweak a few things in aspects of one build, and tweak a few things in aspects of other builds, to meet a general balance. Now balance does not need to mean it is all the same. you see, balance also means:1) roles not overstepping their boundaries (e.g. holosmith with perma stab, making it sort of a bursting tank. perform greatly in one, while decently in the other, that is the remedy, not greatly in both.)2) being strong and weak to certain other roles and build choices (e.g. support beats condi, however due to lack of defense, support can't beat burst damage, etc etc)3) numbers (see what i did there? i numbered this all for you, "astronomer")4) science5) potions and elixirs (kk enough trolling)I am more than familiar with computer programming and code generation, as I myself am studying to become a software engineer. If you are attempting to sound brilliant, i'd hold your tongue if I were you. =P

I am still waiting here.When you feel ok providing reasons to the question i asked you, i will be delighted to read them.

Feel free to reread my response to your question. Until next time, when you've gotten rid of your extra salt, we can have a decent discussion. bye for now.

[Americium.7182]

Engi was nearly unplayable for years in 15+ people WvW fights until HoT/PoF gave them a role. They only way you can really have atleast some competitive advantage as engi is backline dive as Holosmith/Scrapper. Please don't take it away just because it's too good for PvP.

Also please bring back Ele. The only reason he is even played right now is to clear siege weapons from walls with meteors. Way too outclassed in open field.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

The balance will be ongoing, and you don't have to care about

• 1000 builds
• Equip
• traits
• skills
• weapons
• sigils

but just 9 builds with flat stuff, which just need to be barely adjusted.

There's no way having diversity will bring more balance.

Simply math.

Simply math doesn't apply in some instances however. This is not trying to read stars or determine coordinates, masses, or distances of other celestial bodies in the universe.

Feel free then to explain how, in terms of balance, a system which consists in random templates with random elements could be at least balanced as one with X static characters, with no customization.

Having different professions become viable with different generations of codes, which include the binary digits 1 and 0, could cause proper balance to fall into place and occur simultaneously, by having more options for desired gameplay instead of trapping said professions in a constant state of operating under the dictating laws of said 1s and 0s. You tweak a few things in aspects of one build, and tweak a few things in aspects of other builds, to meet a general balance. Now balance does not need to mean it is all the same. you see, balance also means:1) roles not overstepping their boundaries (e.g. holosmith with perma stab, making it sort of a bursting tank. perform greatly in one, while decently in the other, that is the remedy, not greatly in both.)2) being strong and weak to certain other roles and build choices (e.g. support beats condi, however due to lack of defense, support can't beat burst damage, etc etc)3) numbers (see what i did there? i numbered this all for you, "astronomer")4) science5) potions and elixirs (kk enough trolling)I am more than familiar with computer programming and code generation, as I myself am studying to become a software engineer. If you are attempting to sound brilliant, i'd hold your tongue if I were you. =P

I am still waiting here.When you feel ok providing reasons to the question i asked you, i will be delighted to read them.

Feel free to reread my response to your question. Until next time, when you've gotten rid of your extra salt, we can have a decent discussion. bye for now.

I do understand that you have plenty of time to lose, but next time i ask you not to involve me with false hopes.

[GenerationX.9178]

Warrior TriatsDefy Pain: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP onlyLast Stand: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP onlyShrug it Off: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP onlyDead or Alive: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only

Thief TraitsInstant Reflexes: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP onlyPain response: Increased the cooldown from 16 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP onlyHard to Catch: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

EngineersProtection Injection: Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP onlySelf-Regulating Defenses: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP onlyReactive Lenses: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

ElementalistTempest Defense: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP onlyFinal Shielding: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

I can't wait for these changes, these traits above I believe should be also applied to word vs world.I see marauders builds abusing all the defensive traits all time.

If you want to be power there should be a cost. I have played full berserker Warrior, Thief, Engineer, Elementalist (fresh air with focus) and these defensive traits let me play with less worry because "oh always have something to back me up". I also believe Mesmer is worst them all about power sustain but I am giving the "Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun" a chance. If the intention was to help fight condition AIDS then I believe you should look into the condition removal, most the invuls and damage immunity conditions can pierce threw. Resistance is good idea but vs most condition builds they will have a boon removal on command.

Overall I am satisfied with the patch and finally there little buff and fix to my primary thief. Honestly for veteran players this probably been long time coming. There are lot of auto traits and passive effects still need work but this is a decent start.

[aDemoNnDisguisE.8576]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"aDemoNnDisguisE.8576" said:Look anet, core necro and reaper need the ability to jump in to shroud faster.I'm with you so far...Make shroud degen faster if you must....and now I'm not.

As far as the effectiveness of shroud as a defensive is concerned, the base degeneration has a far bigger impact on potency than the cooldown does. The removal of Speed of Shadows was certainly negative for Reaper, but it was not what killed Reaper in any way. The 5% degeneration however did kill Reaper. For example under the current 5% degeneration you need over 20% life force to complete the shroud 5>4 combo, more if somebody is actually hitting you.

There is literally nothing they could give Reaper that would be worth a further increase of Shroud degeneration.

I agree with you.I don't want any more nerfs to non-scourge necro either... but anet does not like shroud period.Every nerf and buff with necro is always about shroud with them... that is all I was acknowledging.

That said I DO want the reduced CD for Shroud back because that is important for Core/Base necro and to a slightly less degree Reaper.

I am thinking about core necro as well as reaper.Core necro in particular needs to be able to jump back into shroud ASAP most of the time.And nothing on their list makes it seem like Anet "gets" that.

Instead they hit necro with a change, almost on a whim, that changes the entire play style of the class that has been played for 4+ years by increasing shroud CD.It is fucking ridiculous.

AENT! UNDO THE SHROUD CD NERF!

... and if you feel like actually helping necro start by undoing the nerfs from the last 6 balance patches caused by Scourge.Well + VP heal ICD.Lich form all skills... etc.

As far as Scourge goes... I don't care anything about that condition spam crazy spec nerf it to the ground, just leave Reaper and Core Necro alone while you do it.In fact I would be ok with it if you gave Scourge as an elite to Rev or Mez... it fits their play style better anyway IMHO.

[messiah.1908]

Anet 11 pages of thread and only 6 ppl talked about rev....

get the point?

please add condi cleanse and dont delete magi amulet

[Taranis.7451]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@"Taranis.7451" said:I'm more concerned with the fluidity of gameplay and enjoying my chosen class than I am with damage output. Scourge Shade cast times (0.5s) in addition to the CD changes proposed here will mean that the class has virtually nothing to do but auto attack while it waits for skills to recharge. Inevitably this will make for some very slow, tedious gameplay. By all means, please telegraph our skills and reduce their efficacy, but please do not suck all the joy and fun out of playing.

having basically an unlimited amount of barrier is "healthy" then, if I am not mistaking your words here. No. It is not. One of the skills getting a longer CD is needed to promote counterplay. Please consider this:Barrier, now, lasts for 5 seconds, and does not slowly degenerate over time any longer, meaning that 3k barrier you can place on yourself is technically almost constant uptime, considering barriers last said 5 seconds and the CD is what, 6-8 seconds. Yeah. Not healthy at all. These changes are much needed.

While barrier was not explicitly mentioned, I have no issue with changing it either in a way that does not disrupt the fluidity of gameplay. Could they simply not reduce the amount of barrier applied? Could they not move barrier application off Shroud and onto another skill? There are hundreds of ways to address the issues of Scourge without slowing everything down to a crawl. Sadly, all the whining and L2P issues on these forums have convinced ANet that Scourge should be completely gutted such that nobody will want to play it anymore.

[Penniegrim.9123]

Thank you for nerfing the ranger class even more. A few more and you can remove it entirely. Well done. This IS what you want, right?

[tiramisu.8706]

This may not be a favorable post.

Coming from someone who just returned to WVW after a year, this is what makes me dislike the current meta:

1. Winds of Disenchantment: This skill pollutes my screen. It's way too large and last way too long. Please change to be used more skillfully instead of braindead.
2. Zerker like condition damage on high vitality / toughness builds makes it such an easy choice for most guilds. Trailblazers and Celestial stats make the game too easy.
3. Dictated by the insane amount of damage scaling and boon corrupt, I have no choice but to run minstrels on my guardian and feel inadequate.
4. At over 3400 armor and 21k, a single rev has a chance to burst me instantly with a quick hammer rotation. Just make it so it takes 2 revs at least. I'd feel less inadequate.

From the proposed changes listed:

1. Scourges do need a nerf but 10 seconds to all the skills will either make the class too boring to play due to having no skills to use or blobs will just add more scourges to make up for it. Don't make their skill rotation even more boring as bricks and just change the armor stats that make this such an easy class. (trailblazers / celestials)
2. Winds of Disenchantment isn't on the list. SKILL IS TOO LARGE. 5 WARRIORS COVERS MY WHOLE SCREEN.
3. Don't change the tome CDs and heal scaling. You did good by making it so we don't need 2 guards per party. It's just enough to keep the squad alive.
4. Did I mention that winds of Disenchantment isn't on the list? At a radius of too large and a duration of 10 seconds, a black and gold bubbly haze pollutes my screen. Dumb elite. Braindead usage.

Much love ANET. When nerfing skills, please do slight tweaks instead of grinding a class into oblivion. Please cater to skill vs numbers. <3