Are we really leaving Path of Fire behind?

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

Does anet really think players enjoy to repeat the hearts daily?I don't understand why they stay with this daily heart reset system, very annoying...

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Does anet really think players enjoy to repeat the hearts daily?I don't understand why they stay with this daily heart reset system, very annoying...

There were a huge amount of ~10 players who wanted daily hearts to be a thing and Anet wanted to satisfy them.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I still do Legendary and Champ Bounty runs, you see plenty of the areas and the awards are no worse than doing the World Bosses or Champ Trains.

Between that Silver Wastes, Auric Basin, Dragon Stand, and Instan there's plenty of Open World content to keep it fresh.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:honestly? I find the PoF maps annoying. Pretty, but annoying. Not the maps themselves, but the npcs, the branded, awakened, sandsharks blabla everywhere. Especially the npc chatter is very annoying. I love the NPC chatter in DR, the Grove, Hoelbrak, Queensdale, Siren's Landing etc pp. I love almost all NPC chatter on all maps. Except PoF and Istan.

If I am going PVE just for fun, Core Tyria, LW3 maps or HOT. POF, LW4 only if I have to.

Can you be specific, they seem no different to me

[Emprer.7256]

@Stevieboy.4192 said:I paid for it right?

You did. And you got the access to obtaining all mounts including the griffon. It's entirely your decision to get all mounts but the griffon because you find going through the story solo not fun. You got what you paid for though. Besides, there's nothing to brag about having a griffon anymore. So no it's not bragging right you assume. /shrug

[Ceridwen.6703]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Does anet really think players enjoy to repeat the hearts daily?I don't understand why they stay with this daily heart reset system, very annoying...

There were a huge amount of ~10 players who wanted daily hearts to be a thing and Anet wanted to satisfy them.

Repeatable hearts aren't an issue. Having to repeat them to gain access to a vendor you've already gained access to previously, however, is a problem. I'd say the vendor should remain open from initial heart completion, but they should offer a daily shiny for repeat heart completion.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

My problem with PoF was that the maps are twice the size of Queensdale yet have half of the events, so you get one-fourth the content. Events have always been the bread and butter of GW2, especially long event chains with epic endings..that's why Orr was successful at launch.

PoF maps are like playing through an entire story but having no boss at the end, it just fades out.

[Adenin.5973]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Adenin.5973" said:

• No new big metas or world bosses addedThis is a straight-up lie. Every single map has large meta events, most of which end in huge boss fights. They just don't involve the entire map (also they don't shower you in loot, which is what people are
  really
  complaining about when they talk about the lack of meta events in PoF).

And that's exactly what I am talking about with "big metas". Also, there are no huge world bosses like triple trouble worm or teq etc.

Also "lying" is quite an accusation, maybe calm down a little before replying.

[Shirlias.8104]

PoF was a low experience compared to HoT ( even though the maps are cool ).This because of mounts ( Springer mostly, and griffon once you acquire it ) and the fact that maps are plain as hell ( and let's not forget about the low number of teleports, which force you to spend more time on travelling ). And META maps too.

I would prefer to see a comback of HoT maps in the next expansion ( taking into account that PoF was not definitely something, and that now the community is even less used to play the game, in terms of challenges ).

[Tomahawk.7361]

PoF needs incentive for people to go back to those maps. They need to add fun, richly rewarding events, that drop good loot. That is all they need to do. A suggestion for that might be a proper co-op where players push together to seize enemy assets much like wvw. Silverwastes was only a sliver of an idea that could grow much larger for a PvE community. People like working together in fun events. They don't have to be HoT scale to succeed either.

[Lonecap.4105]

@Tomahawk.7361 said:PoF needs incentive for people to go back to those maps. They need to add fun, richly rewarding events, that drop good loot. That is all they need to do. A suggestion for that might be a proper co-op where players push together to seize enemy assets much like wvw. Silverwastes was only a sliver of an idea that could grow much larger for a PvE community. People like working together in fun events. They don't have to be HoT scale to succeed either.

I don't feel entirely hopeless that they won't add them in. Istan didn't really click with me personally, but its popular and was a great try.

What I would do in their shoes is perhaps for LW4 episode 3, I wouldn't get the team to design a new map, but instead retroactively add metas to each Path of Fire map, relating to the ongoing threat of Kralkatorrik.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Shirlias.8104 said:PoF was a low experience compared to HoT ( even though the maps are cool ).This because of mounts ( Springer mostly, and griffon once you acquire it ) and the fact that maps are plain as hell ( and let's not forget about the low number of teleports, which force you to spend more time on travelling ). And META maps too.

I would prefer to see a comback of HoT maps in the next expansion ( taking into account that PoF was not definitely something, and that now the community is even less used to play the game, in terms of challenges ).

Sorry if close to a dozen legendary bounties (that while are not Tequatl or Triples Trouble they definitely are a lot tougher than the World Boss Train) are not good enough for you, I'm pretty sure the droves of us that still do them are happy with them though.

While I grew to appreciate Heart of Thorns I almost quit the game because to me Orr, World Boss, Silver Wastes difficulty was my skill threshold (until I Got Gud). Path of Fire is perfect, and I bet you the rest of these LW Maps will have Instan type Metas as well because you can tell they heard us with the first map.

Take it from a guy that complains all the time, get some perspective and love the things you love about GW2; in the real world Marriages fall apart because this lack of Perspective.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:PoF was a low experience compared to HoT ( even though the maps are cool ).This because of mounts ( Springer mostly, and griffon once you acquire it ) and the fact that maps are plain as hell ( and let's not forget about the low number of teleports, which force you to spend more time on travelling ). And META maps too.

I would prefer to see a comback of HoT maps in the next expansion ( taking into account that PoF was not definitely something, and that now the community is even less used to play the game, in terms of challenges ).

Sorry if close to a dozen legendary bounties (that while are not Tequatl or Triples Trouble they definitely are a lot tougher than the World Boss Train) are not good enough for you, I'm pretty sure the droves of us that still do them are happy with them though.

While I grew to appreciate Heart of Thorns I almost quit the game because to me Orr, World Boss, Silver Wastes difficulty was my skill threshold (until I Got Gud). Path of Fire is perfect, and I bet you the rest of these LW Maps will have Instan type Metas as well because you can tell they heard us with the first map.

Take it from a guy that complains all the time, get some perspective and love the things you love about GW2; in the real world Marriages fall apart because this lack of Perspective.

Dude it is an objective statement that PoF is way more for casuals than HoT, and that players got worse ( or more casual ) because of it.If you search on the forum you could find hilarious threads like:

• Personal story is too hard
• PoF HP are too hard
• Can't manage to complete the Chef Mastery Point Event
• Can't rest for a moment while in PoF maps
• Got dismounted everytime

and so on

PoF ( mostly because of mounts ) managed to bring more casual players in, and also fed those who already were unskilled ( or better, refused to learn how to play the game in the right way ).

About the maps it's also an objective statement the fact that they are plain if compared to HoT maps ( and with springer/griffon evern more, since you are able to exploit and skip paths ).

[MarshallLaw.9260]

The mastery system perhaps reflects one of the main differences for both expansions. Different volume of playable content.

HoT system was comprised of many different paths:Gliding, Itzel Lore, Exalted Lore, Nuhoch Lore, Raids, Ancient Magics.Most of these were independent from each other and required for separate challenges. A total of 144 points were needed to complete all tracks which meant more time was spent in the jungle.Arguably, PoF had only 2 types of mastery - Mounts and Crystal Champ.The mount ones were tied in to each other (e.g.i t was difficult to start path 2 without at least 50% completion for path 1 etc.) also - only 66 Mastery points were required for completion and the difference was certainly felt.

This is not to say PoF under delivered. I would say that the amount of content for both expansions was similar - it is just that HoT had more playable content and PoF had more invested in new assets like mounts, maps, elite spec graphics.

It's a real shame to see some of the Crystal Desert maps seemingly empty - Domain of Vabbi being probably worst affected from personal experience. Perhaps it requires a different meta event other than Serpents Ire to get more people involved.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:PoF was a low experience compared to HoT ( even though the maps are cool ).This because of mounts ( Springer mostly, and griffon once you acquire it ) and the fact that maps are plain as hell ( and let's not forget about the low number of teleports, which force you to spend more time on travelling ). And META maps too.

I would prefer to see a comback of HoT maps in the next expansion ( taking into account that PoF was not definitely something, and that now the community is even less used to play the game, in terms of challenges ).

Sorry if close to a dozen legendary bounties (that while are not Tequatl or Triples Trouble they definitely are a lot tougher than the World Boss Train) are not good enough for you, I'm pretty sure the droves of us that still do them are happy with them though.

While I grew to appreciate Heart of Thorns I almost quit the game because to me Orr, World Boss, Silver Wastes difficulty was my skill threshold (until I Got Gud). Path of Fire is perfect, and I bet you the rest of these LW Maps will have Instan type Metas as well because you can tell they heard us with the first map.

Take it from a guy that complains all the time, get some perspective and love the things you love about GW2; in the real world Marriages fall apart because this lack of Perspective.

Dude it is an objective statement that PoF is way more for casuals than HoT, and that players got worse ( or more casual ) because of it.If you search on the forum you could find hilarious threads like:

• Personal story is too hard
• PoF HP are too hard
• Can't manage to complete the Chef Mastery Point Event
• Can't rest for a moment while in PoF maps
• Got dismounted everytime

and so on

PoF ( mostly because of mounts ) managed to bring more casual players in, and also fed those who already were unskilled ( or better, refused to learn how to play the game in the right way ).

About the maps it's also an objective statement the fact that they are plain if compared to HoT maps ( and with springer/griffon evern more, since you are able to exploit and skip paths ).

They didn't bring them in it brought people like me back (even though I stuck around) the ones that quit because of HoT; the money speaks for it's self in the quarterly Report (that's tangible by the way, not subjective).

[Cobra.6509]

For me the quality of POF is below everything in this game.Bounty, such good idea, such poor product. Legendary bosses,..... well when I say legendary I think about Teq, TT. Not even one legendary bounties come closes. There are joke if you compare them with Teq or TT, they even doesn't come close with Shatterer or Jormag.
Events on the maps.....imo.....best map there is Silverwastes, anyway you go, anytime you go, something different going on, reward are nice, achievements are nice. The POF maps are not anywhere closer with SW although Anet worked at these 5 maps for like 18 months. And you can see there is something wrong in lfg where basically you can find SW squads 24/7 but no even 1 squad doing something in POF. Not to mention here metas in HOT , that are always ON.They say we made the maps explore able. But its not true, you can explore POF on the back of a month, if you stop a second you die unless you kill 1 kkk mobs.So why I should go to POF after I finish all there ?? i cant imagine an answer.But what bothers me much than low quality of POF is the low quality of everything else new added to this game. Last 2 fractals are a shame if you compare with the older ones. So my question is : where are the guys who made TEQ, TT, First fractals, First raids, SW, DT, HOT maps ?? It seems they are gone and the replacements are very low level.

[Turin.6921]

I definitely still enjoy the maps very much and small metas or bounty trains. And i happen to enjoy HoT as well for different reasons. People are exaggerating a lot on their criticism. Especially the comment by some about this being not a full expansion because of this is pretty unfair and unreasonable. PoF has a lot of things to do. IT has just less incentive to repeat thing 100 times over.

You can never really win with this community. It is too diverse to satisfy and we tend to have our pitchforks ready at a moments notice. It helps to keep the devs on their toes but the criticisms do become unfair or exaggerated sometimes.

Some preferred HoT some the PoF more relaxed situation. There are many people that actually really prefer the PoF simplicity. Challenge and long term farming give re-playability but turns people off if they want a bit of relaxed gameplay. I think the ideal would be a mix of PoF and HoT maps for re-playability. For example the ideal would be to have most maps relaxed with Istan-like metas and 1-2 HoT like map wide metas maps. That way you can have enough options for both crowds. Also i would like to see some legendaries more tied up to the PoF map farming. This would give some nice incentive to come back and revisit. But maybe that is planned for later.

I would say that Istan it starting to get to that direction so i suppose Anet already gets it and tries to fix the replayability flaws of the PoF metas.

[Lonecap.4105]

@Turin.6921 said:I definitely still enjoy the maps very much and the small metas or bounty trains. And i happen to enjoy HoT as well for different reasons. People are exaggerating a lot on their criticism. Especially the comment about this being not a full expansion because of this is pretty unfair and unreasonable.

You can never really win with this community. It is too diverse to satisfy and we tend to have our pitchforks ready at a moments notice. It helps to keep the devs on their toes but the criticisms do become unfair or exaggerated sometimes.

Some preferred HoT some the PoF more relaxed situation. Challenge and long term farming give re-playability but turns people off if they want a bit of relaxed gameplay. I think the ideal would be a mix of PoF and HoT maps for re-playability. For example the ideal would be to have most maps relaxed with Istan-like metas and 1-2 HoT like map wide metas maps. That way you can have enough options for both crowds. Also i would like to see some legendaries more tied up to the PoF map farming. This would give some nice incentive to come back and revisit. But maybe that is planned for later.

I would say that Istan it starting to get to that direction so i supposed Anet already tries to fix the replayability flaws of the PoF metas.

I'm sorry, but it isn't about not being able to win with regards to what the playerbase wants.

They made five huge maps. Beautiful and vibrant maps which channelled Guild Wars 1. They gave us mounts and filled us with visions of exciting escapades together through the desert.

What the maps ended up being were levelling zones. They're essentially low level starter maps that only really offer a very ambient and slow easy experience.

This is boring for long term players. If you enjoy this kind of content, if you just want to do mindless heart events... I hope you see that you're being unfair and damaging by asking for content like this. Go to Caledon Forest and stay there. The whole world is full of casual and ambient activities like this. Don't make the end game into starter zones...

[Orion Templar.4589]

With core Tyria, HoT, and PoF, it's clear they've tried different kinds of structure to maps/events/hearts to see what people like and offer a variety of play options. I too thought PoF maps were beautiful, and some of the group events (especially in Elon Riverlands) are a lot of fun. But I find that some of the LWS3 maps are what I consistently go back to for daily play. I find myself going back to Siren's Landing a lot, so in response to this discussion I examined why I keep going back there. I know what people find "fun" varies, but for me what I find fun about Siren's Landing is:

• Free to use shrine waypoints to get around the map quickly
• A quickly rotating meta (every 30 minutes) that doesn't require a massive zerg to complete
• Treasure chests scattered around that don't require a key to open
• Hearts that don't take a long time to complete, with a daily (gambler) that provides incentive to complete the hearts regularly
• Abundant gathering nodes
• Events of some kind are always going on

So when I look at why don't I spend a lot of time in PoF maps after completing them on a few characters, it's likely because they differ from the list above.

• No free waypoints
• Metas aren't quickly rotating, and aren't always apparent when they are going to happen
• Treasure chests require a key
• Some hearts take a long time to complete, and little incentive to complete them regularly
• Nodes and events are probably okay

[Zedek.8932]

Ah, this again. People read guides and cheese their way trough content that is supposed to be done by everyone and wonder when they run out of it.Unpupolar opinion (often more a fact) and surely not true for a good junk of players, but reading the same old stories over and over why PoF was done so fast and then remembering to read stuff like "I took days off and had energy drinks and Dulfy open".

PoF is beautiful to me, I can't stand HoT that much in comparison. Even the feeling of being trapped in a green nightmare instead of open spaces with a sky and stars as well as a real night in PoF due to the higher contrast. I am glad no Charrcopter and no zombie plants are running around. Deadeye is a part of PoF, so it's basically the reason why I am spending more money on the game. But then, I play like 10 hours / week and thus enjoy the game more than many people apparently.

Excelsior.

[sorudo.9054]

the only thing wrong with them is the slow loading time, it takes ages to load one map while i can get LA loaded with a new character in that time frame. (and tha'ts with 2X a loading screen and a video i have seen to death)i like the lack of meta's so i can just play in peace, i like the fast open maps with plenty of breathing room (unlike HoT), i like the part where i can just discover things instead of putting everything on glider or copter distance.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

@Blude.6812 said:Having to redo hearts to access vendors killed it for me.

While it hasn't killed PoF for me -- I really enjoy the expansion and maps -- I LOATHE having to re-do hearts to access the vendors. ANet, pleasepleaseplease change this.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Since PoF arrived, I spend 80-85% of my time there. The crystal desert is huge, and has plenty of adventures and secrets to offer. Even with the mounts there are plenty of things to discover.

A game I always played with myself in every area: "I dare you can not reach this." These tasks keep me busy for long. Most of the time, I end up anywhere glitched between the layers. Sometimes I discover an exploit, which I report and sometimes I find some very interesting secret, or just a nice view.

The desert also offers plenty of mysterious stuff, which does not suit in the area. A week or two ago, I found a suspicious ring at a corpse inside the sulfur mines of desolation. Took me a few days to complete the task, was very rewarding at the end. I have made myself a list where I put everything suspicious I find in the desert. The list still grows faster than I can solve the mysteries. Some of those tasks turned out to be extremely challenging and/or rewarding.

The mapping looks just awesome. I would like to have more future content tied to these beautiful maps. But if ANet plans to add them to their discontinued-list, so be it. I also visit the Heart of Thorns maps once in a while. I can understand the people who prefer HoT over PoF. For me it feels like visiting an old friend. Except for TD - still the worst map I ever played.

In the end I have to agree with @Zedek.8932. Playing the game on super-easy with guides is not really challenging and when it is done, it is done. I really appreciated the first weeks of PoF, most quests had neither a dulfy guide nor a wiki entry. If you wanted to solve a mystery, you were forced to talk to people and share experiences and knowledge. Those were the best weeks I ever had in this game, community wise. But nowadays there is nearly nothing secret anymore. If I stumble over something odd /wiki easily clears the path in most cases. And when I find something without a wiki entry, people ignore me. If it is not on the wiki, it does not exist ... :S

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@Turin.6921 said:I definitely still enjoy the maps very much and the small metas or bounty trains. And i happen to enjoy HoT as well for different reasons. People are exaggerating a lot on their criticism. Especially the comment about this being not a full expansion because of this is pretty unfair and unreasonable.

You can never really win with this community. It is too diverse to satisfy and we tend to have our pitchforks ready at a moments notice. It helps to keep the devs on their toes but the criticisms do become unfair or exaggerated sometimes.

Some preferred HoT some the PoF more relaxed situation. Challenge and long term farming give re-playability but turns people off if they want a bit of relaxed gameplay. I think the ideal would be a mix of PoF and HoT maps for re-playability. For example the ideal would be to have most maps relaxed with Istan-like metas and 1-2 HoT like map wide metas maps. That way you can have enough options for both crowds. Also i would like to see some legendaries more tied up to the PoF map farming. This would give some nice incentive to come back and revisit. But maybe that is planned for later.

I would say that Istan it starting to get to that direction so i supposed Anet already tries to fix the replayability flaws of the PoF metas.

I'm sorry, but it isn't about not being able to win with regards to what the playerbase wants.

They made five huge maps. Beautiful and vibrant maps which channelled Guild Wars 1. They gave us mounts and filled us with visions of exciting escapades together through the desert.

What the maps ended up being were levelling zones. They're essentially low level starter maps that only really offer a very ambient and slow easy experience.

This is boring for long term players. If you enjoy this kind of content, if you just want to do mindless heart events... I hope you see that you're being unfair and damaging by asking for content like this. Go to Caledon Forest and stay there. The whole world is full of casual and ambient activities like this. Don't make the end game into starter zones...

I spend a lot of times in these maps, but then at lvl 80 I don't consider any map to be leveling maps. Especially level 80 maps meant for level 80s (most uninformed comment I've heard in awhile). It sucks you don't enjoy it how ever many of us are chilling in these maps on a daily basis.

[dolcolax.1268]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@Turin.6921 said:I definitely still enjoy the maps very much and the small metas or bounty trains. And i happen to enjoy HoT as well for different reasons. People are exaggerating a lot on their criticism. Especially the comment about this being not a full expansion because of this is pretty unfair and unreasonable.

You can never really win with this community. It is too diverse to satisfy and we tend to have our pitchforks ready at a moments notice. It helps to keep the devs on their toes but the criticisms do become unfair or exaggerated sometimes.

Some preferred HoT some the PoF more relaxed situation. Challenge and long term farming give re-playability but turns people off if they want a bit of relaxed gameplay. I think the ideal would be a mix of PoF and HoT maps for re-playability. For example the ideal would be to have most maps relaxed with Istan-like metas and 1-2 HoT like map wide metas maps. That way you can have enough options for both crowds. Also i would like to see some legendaries more tied up to the PoF map farming. This would give some nice incentive to come back and revisit. But maybe that is planned for later.

I would say that Istan it starting to get to that direction so i supposed Anet already tries to fix the replayability flaws of the PoF metas.

I'm sorry, but it isn't about not being able to win with regards to what the playerbase wants.

They made five huge maps. Beautiful and vibrant maps which channelled Guild Wars 1. They gave us mounts and filled us with visions of exciting escapades together through the desert.

What the maps ended up being were levelling zones. They're essentially low level starter maps that only really offer a very ambient and slow easy experience.

This is boring for long term players. If you enjoy this kind of content, if you just want to do mindless heart events... I hope you see that you're being unfair and damaging by asking for content like this. Go to Caledon Forest and stay there. The whole world is full of casual and ambient activities like this. Don't make the end game into starter zones...

how is it a levelling zone? i thought its a level 80 map?