ugrakarma.9416 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 somethings to remember: the new chapter can reveal us this weird spot on the mapsource: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7923zu/spoiler_is_this_some_subtle_map_hint_or_just/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subli.8217 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:"The plague originated from the food" - a confirmed fact" I am almost certain now that it has something to do with the grain" - still not a fact. Someone is almost certain. Even scholar Chago said "Once I perform some experiments to verify the research" - we don't know if it was verified. @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:plus "the food storage was right next to the Apocrypha" - a fact that lies in "true until told otherwise" area, like anything from interviews and forum posts"Note: The information in this article comes from the gw.dat file and has not been officially confirmed by ArenaNet." - So, not a fact.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:plus "some scholars speculated ancient malevolent magic created the plague" - a statement from the manual.speculated = not a fact"Many believed the outbreak of plaguehad supernatural origins, blaming the suffering of the innocent on unseenforces. In this troubled time, heroes tended to the sick, evacuated townsand villages, and searched for the source of corruption. Though the originof the plague was never found" - a statement from the manual.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:The flooding has nothing to do with the plague. What is found in the location of the flooding, however, does. Also, the flooding happened after the Scarab Plague - that is, "for centuries before we find the Apocrypha in Nightfall". You're obviously either twisting or misunderstanding my comment for the sake of your own theory, because nowhere did I say that the food itself was flooded while the Primeval Dynasty was thriving, nor does anything in my statement suggest that when I say that it was flooded in GW1 - which, by the way, takes place over 600 years after the Scarab Plague began.So that is indeed heavy implication.Implication? Speculation? Sure! But not knowledge or facts. And yes I misunderstood your comment, I thought you were implying that flood had something to do with the plague.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Or is it pure, unrelated, coincidence that food that became the source for the Scarab Plague was sitting right next to the Apocrypha?That's very possible, especially since we don't know for certain if food was the source. Apocrypha was dormant until Kormir awakened it. Otherwise we would have had Nightfall earlier.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Because that feels more like wild speculation to me. As does the belief that Joko is somehow involved, despite there being a 300 year gap between the Scarab Plague's beginning, and an egotistical megalomaniac making credible mention in history.Alright, while your speculation isn't necessarily unlikely (after rethinking it), I don't think suspecting Joko of involvement is a wild guess - we learn in PoF story from the dialogue: "Queen Dahlah: The Primeval dynasty ended with us, no matter what the deceiver Joko claims!" we can assume she either knew Joko during her lifetime (since we also know from separate dialogue that their facial-recognition after death is very blurry) or they learned of Joko during their afterlife. Whatever the reason she told this to us - we learn that Joko considers himself to be one of the Primeval King, and he only appeared in history AFTER the Shattered Dynasty, and Shattered Dynasty happened AFTER the Great Dynasty, and the Great Dynasty happened AFTER the Scarab Plague. Joko could've been a different person, or hiding/waiting for the right moment, or for all we know he could've been found guilty of the plague and imprisoned, while all his ties to history got erased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdark.3726 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 in the trailer at 0:26 is the Lifeblood Waterhole in Desert Hinghlands. So the first instance will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michram.6853 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @Underdark.3726 said:in the trailer at 0:26 is the Lifeblood Waterhole in Desert Hinghlands. So the first instance will be there.I thought that at first. Also Taimi said she knows a researcher, looks like she/he traveled with other asura- some went there, some went to search some data about a lost city. I am glad Anet didn't abandon PoF maps and they still involve them into the story like Amnoon in Daybreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @Sublimatio.6981 said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:"The plague originated from the food" - a confirmed fact" I am almost certain now that it has something to do with the grain" - still not a fact. Someone is almost certain. Even scholar Chago said "Once I perform some experiments to verify the research" - we don't know if it was verified. The full line is: "I am almost certain now that it has something to do with the grain we harvested, so I hope that the mainland is protected from this horrible malady." And it was true. The mainland was free of its effects.Further:"Whatever you do, my friend, do not eat or drink while in the city… I fear the plague is spreading through the food." https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_Perplexing_Plague"This appears to contain a great deal of very useful information on the plague… a timeline of its progression, information on its origins... Well done!" https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_Mysterious_MissiveThat's a lot of reaffirmation for such a red herring.Further, in GW1, what was "speculated by scholars" turned out to be true every time it got proven true or false. Unless, of course, you're saying they defied their entire writing design at the time for the sake of a red herring with no feasible alternative.@Sublimatio.6981 said:"Note: The information in this article comes from the gw.dat file and has not been officially confirmed by ArenaNet." - So, not a fact. Things in the gw.dat were planned, but might have been scrapped. This is no different than forum posts about lore, where we got actual developer statement that they are "true until proven wrong in the game". The entries in the gw.dat, for all intents and purposes, house the same placement in lore. True until proven otherwise by future stuff.@Sublimatio.6981 said:speculated = not a factNever said that part was a fact.@Sublimatio.6981 said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:The flooding has nothing to do with the plague. What is found in the location of the flooding, however, does. Also, the flooding happened after the Scarab Plague - that is, "for centuries before we find the Apocrypha in Nightfall". You're obviously either twisting or misunderstanding my comment for the sake of your own theory, because nowhere did I say that the food itself was flooded while the Primeval Dynasty was thriving, nor does anything in my statement suggest that when I say that it was flooded in GW1 - which, by the way, takes place over 600 years after the Scarab Plague began.So that is indeed heavy implication.Implication? Speculation? Sure! But not knowledge or facts. And yes I misunderstood your comment, I thought you were implying that flood had something to do with the plague.1+1=2That is a fact. You have A, you have B, therefore AB. That is a fact.Logical deduction is not mere implication or speculation. Take any course on logic and you'll learn that.@Sublimatio.6981 said:That's very possible, especially since we don't know for certain if food was the source. Apocrypha was dormant until Kormir awakened it. Otherwise we would have had Nightfall earlier. It was "dormant" because the entire city was sealed ever since the Scarab Plague. The very moment the city was unsealed, it was "active". It wasn't Kormir personally, but by her orders and her curiosity (the only thing we actually saw her personally activate was a partial statue of Abaddon outside the city). We have no knowledge for its state during the Primeval Dynasty.And even then, the Desolation's lore - [one example](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ruins_of_Morah_(outpost%29) - shows that the mere presence of Abaddon's influence causes problems. Problems that cause massive amounts of deaths and decay. Pretty similar to how Shiro's mere presence resulted in the Affliction plague, the presence of Abaddon's armor, mask, and sword and the Mouth of Torment caused the spread of sulfuric sands that killed the living in seconds. The mere presence of Scriptures of Abaddon drove people insane; his influence invaded people's dreams.So you'd say the mere presence of the Apocrypha results in... nothing?@Sublimatio.6981 said:Alright, while your speculation isn't necessarily unlikely (after rethinking it), I don't think suspecting Joko of involvement is a wild guess - we learn in PoF story from the dialogue: "Queen Dahlah: The Primeval dynasty ended with us, no matter what the deceiver Joko claims!" we can assume she either knew Joko during her lifetime (since we also know from separate dialogue that their facial-recognition after death is very blurry) or they learned of Joko during their afterlife. Whatever the reason she told this to us - we learn that Joko considers himself to be one of the Primeval King, and he only appeared in history AFTER the Shattered Dynasty, and Shattered Dynasty happened AFTER the Great Dynasty, and the Great Dynasty happened AFTER the Scarab Plague. Joko could've been a different person, or hiding/waiting for the right moment, or for all we know he could've been found guilty of the plague and imprisoned, while all his ties to history got erased. "we can assume she either knew Joko during her lifetime [...] or they learned of Joko during their afterlife."That same mission literally says that Joko and his minions have been raiding the Tomb. We know outright why they know of him and his claims - the Awakened can't shut up about praising Joko and his "accomplishments" anywhere else, do you really think they would there?Besides he wouldn't be the first to proclaim descendance from the Primeval Kings. And Joko showed up a century after those people.or for all we know he could've been found guilty of the plague and imprisoned, while all his ties to history got erased. Given how much blame Nahlah and Dahlah got for the plague, if this were the case they would not have avoided this fact. Especially since they're denying his claim as their relative. Besides, if Joko really was from the Primeval Dynasty, they would acknowledge this - they haven't denied the heritage of others they hate. They treat Joko as a fake and a pretender, but accepts other criminals as an actual Primeval King even if they deny Jahnus his resting place; that shows that Joko is not of their bloodline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Clearly it means Zhaitan was a Joko minion all along, and we're finally getting the proper fight.Either that or the tree got screwed again, or corrupted...It could also be GW2's version of Hal9000, or another crazy Sylvari, never get tired of killing those or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 It should be noted the version of Fear Not This Night used in the trailer is different. It's not the vanilla version. It ends on a creepy lyric that isn't part of the real song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanith.5264 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Any thoughts on the (apparently dead) male charr we see in the trailer? He doesn't seem familiar, so not sure if it's a significant fatality or just a stock character who failed to praise Joko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @"Tanith.5264" said:Any thoughts on the (apparently dead) male charr we see in the trailer? He doesn't seem familiar, so not sure if it's a significant fatality or just a stock character who failed to praise Joko.Might be that one Charr that knows Rox that we met waaaaaay back in the Silverwastes when we were trying to find Caithe.EDIT: Found himhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monti_Scythescrape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Things to note:Rytlock and Canach curiously MIA here.My guess is they're helping Zaeim and the Sunspears with their revolution, while the Asura gates stuff is specifically Rox and Braham-oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rognik.2579 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 It is nice that Rox is going to be doing stuff again after doing almost nothing since... Heart of Thorns. (She was barely a character in Crack in the Ice.) I'm curious what her role is going to be, since apparently Braham will be posing as a prisoner of some sort. I am a bit disappointed that we haven't really seen her on her own since Season, or even paired with any of the other characters. I'm curious if she has some reason for staying close to Braham, or we're just keeping these two characters, who were the first introduced in the Living Story, together for nostalgia's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Both Braham and Rox had chains in the trailer shot where Braham had his little grumpy Braham splash.Rox and Braham are good friends - they had a few adventures together off-screen between Flame and Frost and Queen's Jubilee (as well as between then and Tower of Nightmares where they held full time appearances). They're together for similar-but-less-romantic reasons that Kasmeer and Marjory are often together. And I suspect that Rytlock and Canach will be a duo as well, given PoF, and that we'll be effectively changing between pairs of duos throughout our adventures from hereon out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 We will learn that Joko is still out of the picture and that The Inquest is using the image to manipulate the Elonians. (as they are known to have done with Grawl. ) We may learn that someone is manipulating the Inquest. That somebody might even be Grenth.The new version of "Fear Not This Night" will turn out to be pro Joko propaganda from The Inquest.If ANET continues to follow the precedents of GW1, we may even end up having to free Joko in order to set things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @"Ithilwen.1529" said:We will learn that Joko is still out of the picture and that The Inquest is using the image to manipulate the Elonians. (as they are known to have done with Grawl. ) We may learn that someone is manipulating the Inquest. That somebody might even be Grenth.The new version of "Fear Not This Night" will turn out to be pro Joko propaganda from The Inquest.If ANET continues to follow the precedents of GW1, we may even end up having to free Joko in order to set things right. So, what, ArenaNet's going to repeat the plot of Season 3 and Path of Fire, while the latter was literally a repetition of the plot of Nightfall? So Season 4 is going to be NF 3.0?Honestly, I'm not getting why people keep going with this mockery that they're just going to repeat the plot that had just finished. Yes, the Season 3 reveal was pathetically done and Balthazar's motivation was poor, and the fact PoF was effectively NF 2.0 was a bit unimaginative, but ArenaNet isn't so unimaginative so as to do the same plot twice in a row. They hadn't yet. And it's pretty clear why they did NF 2.0 with PoF as people had been clamoring for a return to the flavor that was GW1.Seems rather petty and silly to constantly go "lulz they'll just repeat the last pathetic plot".After all, we've not gotten a repeat of Scarlet's plot. No one's been creating lore breaking alliances while being a cliche character persona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Actually.. the whole joko issue precedes the confrontation with Abbadon in Nightfall. So, if we see something similar in season 4, it would be like re-telling Nightfall in reverse order.I wasn't being disparaging. The last season was a lot like Nightfall with Rytlock in the place of Kormir. That's not inherently a bad thing. The cycles of time etc etc.. I'd really like to see more of GW1 flowing into GW2.Please though, ANET, if Lyssa ever appears.. be very careful with their image and voice casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Given that some of the shots with the ogre buildings are Desert Highlands, it would be interesting if the actual map we're getting is a lot more varied than what little we may or may not have seen of it in this trailer.I loved the variation we got with Ishtan though so I imagine this will be quite nice as well. Just hoping half the zone isn't inside of the Inquest lab. Unless it's just really intricate and filled with lots of little hidden areas, lore objects, and maybe a jumping puzzle or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edelweiss.4261 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 This is probably the ravings of a crazy person, but it would be interesting if Aurene took up Zhaitan's position/powers thanks to something with the inquest. Then we'd fight Risen vs Awakened with Joko finally meeting his match in Aurene. I think I miss Zhaitan too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @Ithilwen.1529 said:Actually.. the whole joko issue precedes the confrontation with Abbadon in Nightfall. So, if we see something similar in season 4, it would be like re-telling Nightfall in reverse order.A group utilizing another powerful figure to manipulate armies, turning out to be a god, and subsequently resulting in meeting with Joko to put an end to the threat?That's a redux of S3 + PoF, except where we don't insult Joko. None of that resembled Factions or Prophecies.@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'd really like to see more of GW1 flowing into GW2.Depends on how it "flows into" imo. We don't need reduxes. We need more aftermaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@"Ithilwen.1529" said:We will learn that Joko is still out of the picture and that The Inquest is using the image to manipulate the Elonians. (as they are known to have done with Grawl. ) We may learn that someone is manipulating the Inquest. That somebody might even be Grenth.The new version of "Fear Not This Night" will turn out to be pro Joko propaganda from The Inquest.If ANET continues to follow the precedents of GW1, we may even end up having to free Joko in order to set things right. So, what, ArenaNet's going to repeat the plot of Season 3 and Path of Fire, while the latter was literally a repetition of the plot of Nightfall? So Season 4 is going to be NF 3.0?Honestly, I'm not getting why people keep going with this mockery that they're just going to repeat the plot that had just finished. Yes, the Season 3 reveal was pathetically done and Balthazar's motivation was poor, and the fact PoF was effectively NF 2.0 was a bit unimaginative, but ArenaNet isn't so unimaginative so as to do the same plot twice in a row. They hadn't yet. And it's pretty clear why they did NF 2.0 with PoF as people had been clamoring for a return to the flavor that was GW1.Seems rather petty and silly to constantly go "lulz they'll just repeat the last pathetic plot".After all, we've not gotten a repeat of Scarlet's plot. No one's been creating lore breaking alliances while being a cliche character persona.Yeah, enough with this mirrors and manipulations, also, enough with the gods things, although it still has the mystery how`s the mirror of Lyssa went to the hands of balthazar and why he did not have cursed her.This plot with Joko, at least, they seems trying put something like more a horror/freak historie with some with a dose of dark-humor, rather than pure tragic/sad as it was with Zaithan. The humor around the Joko thing as megalomaniac dictator is also very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@Ithilwen.1529 said:Actually.. the whole joko issue precedes the confrontation with Abbadon in Nightfall. So, if we see something similar in season 4, it would be like re-telling Nightfall in reverse order.A group utilizing another powerful figure to manipulate armies, turning out to be a god, and subsequently resulting in meeting with Joko to put an end to the threat?That's a redux of S3 + PoF, except where we don't insult Joko. None of that resembled Factions or Prophecies.@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'd really like to see more of GW1 flowing into GW2.Depends on how it "flows into" imo. We don't need reduxes. We need more aftermaths.Actually, it did resemble Nightfall ( and to an extent Factions as well. )... I completed Nightfall within the past few months. As Ms Varesh Ossa invaded Vabbi, we cut a deal with Joko, ( who we weren't in a position to defeat anyway.) He gave us support ( access to the Junundu worms and therefore to Varesh as she tried to free Abbadon. ) that allowed us to confront Abbadon before he could fully escape.Quite a few things in GW2 reference or resemble GW1 and that's as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Frogeater.1470 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @Daishi.6027 said:Clearly it means Zhaitan was a Joko minion all along, and we're finally getting the proper fight.Either that or the tree got screwed again, or corrupted...It could also be GW2's version of Hal9000, or another crazy Sylvari, never get tired of killing those or anything.Why not combine the theories in a way: Zhaitan could be an Awakened created by the Sphere of Death and Shadow Palawa Joko and the Nightmare that Faolain embraced on Orr could be yet another manifestation of Joko's presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:@Daishi.6027 said:Clearly it means Zhaitan was a Joko minion all along, and we're finally getting the proper fight.Either that or the tree got screwed again, or corrupted...It could also be GW2's version of Hal9000, or another crazy Sylvari, never get tired of killing those or anything.Why not combine the theories in a way: Zhaitan could be an Awakened created by the Sphere of Death and Shadow Palawa Joko and the Nightmare that Faolain embraced on Orr could be yet another manifestation of Joko's presence.Idk about all that. But it would be pretty interesting if Joko were some remnant of one of Zhaitan's previous awakenings cycles. Though he appears to have potentially been human at some point even though it's hard to tell now.Still really hoping we find out the origin of Joko this season though. Even if some people argue that it isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 The picture of joko has him covered partly in the black ooze we see from various awakened areas. Has he been seen with that on him before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontlook.1823 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 The real question is... Will the heroes of Tyria finally be able to make their way to scavenger's cause way and cleanse Orr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 @ugrakarma.9416 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@Ithilwen.1529 said:We will learn that Joko is still out of the picture and that The Inquest is using the image to manipulate the Elonians. (as they are known to have done with Grawl. ) We may learn that someone is manipulating the Inquest. That somebody might even be Grenth.The new version of "Fear Not This Night" will turn out to be pro Joko propaganda from The Inquest.If ANET continues to follow the precedents of GW1, we may even end up having to free Joko in order to set things right. So, what, ArenaNet's going to repeat the plot of Season 3 and Path of Fire, while the latter was literally a repetition of the plot of Nightfall? So Season 4 is going to be NF 3.0?Honestly, I'm not getting why people keep going with this mockery that they're just going to repeat the plot that had just finished. Yes, the Season 3 reveal was pathetically done and Balthazar's motivation was poor, and the fact PoF was effectively NF 2.0 was a bit unimaginative, but ArenaNet isn't so unimaginative so as to do the same plot twice in a row. They hadn't yet. And it's pretty clear why they did NF 2.0 with PoF as people had been clamoring for a return to the flavor that was GW1.Seems rather petty and silly to constantly go "lulz they'll just repeat the last pathetic plot".After all, we've not gotten a repeat of Scarlet's plot. No one's been creating lore breaking alliances while being a cliche character persona.Yeah, enough with this mirrors and manipulations, also, enough with the gods things, although it still has the mystery how`s the mirror of Lyssa went to the hands of balthazar and why he did not have cursed her.This plot with Joko, at least, they seems trying put something like more a horror/freak historie with some with a dose of dark-humor, rather than pure tragic/sad as it was with Zaithan. The humor around the Joko thing as megalomaniac dictator is also very good.I don't think the Six Gods are out of the picture yet nor should they. That said, I think expecting another "god in disguise as powerful political figure" plot is silly.@Ithilwen.1529 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@Ithilwen.1529 said:Actually.. the whole joko issue precedes the confrontation with Abbadon in Nightfall. So, if we see something similar in season 4, it would be like re-telling Nightfall in reverse order.A group utilizing another powerful figure to manipulate armies, turning out to be a god, and subsequently resulting in meeting with Joko to put an end to the threat?That's a redux of S3 + PoF, except where we don't insult Joko. None of that resembled Factions or Prophecies.@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'd really like to see more of GW1 flowing into GW2.Depends on how it "flows into" imo. We don't need reduxes. We need more aftermaths.Actually, it did resemble Nightfall ( and to an extent Factions as well. )... I completed Nightfall within the past few months. As Ms Varesh Ossa invaded Vabbi, we cut a deal with Joko, ( who we weren't in a position to defeat anyway.) He gave us support ( access to the Junundu worms and therefore to Varesh as she tried to free Abbadon. ) that allowed us to confront Abbadon before he could fully escape.Quite a few things in GW2 reference or resemble GW1 and that's as it should be.I outright stated that Path of Fire was a copy of Nightfall. Multiple times. You're telling me I'm wrong, while explaining why I'm right.But "a god is pretending to be a political figure" - or to quote you, "We will learn that Joko is still out of the picture and that The Inquest is using the image to manipulate the Elonians. (as they are known to have done with Grawl. ) We may learn that someone is manipulating the Inquest. That somebody might even be Grenth." - is a redux not of GW1, but of Season 3.And as I said, we do not need reduxes. We need aftermaths.Season 3 was (a failed attempt of) aftermath of Prophecies and War in Kryta. But it was not the same exact plot.Furthermore, Path of Fire was not "Nightfall in reverse" but Nightfall in order, with a few changes. There was also nothing resembling the plot of Factions (or Prophecies) in either Season 3 or Path of Fire.@"dontlook.1823" said:The real question is... Will the heroes of Tyria finally be able to make their way to scavenger's cause way and cleanse Orr?We've already been to cleasned Orr, in one of the most retconny maps of Season 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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