It's time to talk about the mentor tag...

[kurumufan.2389]

So, for the past 2 years or so I have been actively mentoring. It's the sort of thing I do do while partially doing other things like watching video's, doing key runs and completing starting zones for the chance of a BLC key. I'd say I've gotten quite good at it and I really enjoy it. Sadly, with the introduction of the Palawa Joko invasions mentoring has gotten a LOT more difficult for me. For a while now I had ideas of improving the mentoring system but never felt like it was of much importance. Until now. The introduction of the Season 4 side stories was the last drop for me and I feel like I have to say something to make you understand. Even tho I know that very very few people are mentors like me. I still think that we can make a difference.

The problems with the Joko Invasion:If possible, please push back the Joko invasion to other maps. I understand that lore-wise it is crucial that they spawn in the starting zones because these are the closest to the racial cities. However, by doing this you are creating several problems in these maps.

1. Starting maps are very condensed. There are already more events spawning in less space than on any of the other maps. If anything, the Joko invasion is overcrowding the map.
2. There are also other current events ongoing in Queensdale. The bandit events are the perfect example of how to do current events (in starting zones). Making events spawn regularly in the same place without it being time-gated. Champions spawn on secluded areas of the map that are still easy to reach. Spawning Legendaries after the kill is just the cherry on top. Bravo!
3. You do not need the Joko events to bring veterans to starting zones. If not for the world bosses plenty of people already hang out there for crafting, map completion or out of nostalgia.
4. Because the joko events are on a timer people move on quickly from one map to another. Quickly increasing and decreasing the population in a map opens multiple map ip's that will quickly empty out again. However it takes a while for an empty map to close! Players are spread thin over multiple map IP's making it so that there are less players doing dynamic events on the same IP.
5. There are plenty of maps that could really use a player increase, even if it's just temporary! The maps surrounding Lions Arch already have the ley-line events ongoing. These might be a great throwback to some of the 'older' lore of GW2! :smiley: and it could possibly still bind into the S4 lore. Besides, we all know that the majority of the community cares much more about LA than their racial city. :warning: 5. Trigger Warning :warning: 5.

The downsides of The Commander Tag

• The Commander Tag is expensive, as it should be. Not everyone needs one and those that do are most often veterans. So the pricing is fair. What is not fair is that it's the ONLY event tag! You can not expect a player that has just hit lvl 80 to get a commander tag in case they want to kill Earl the Silent.
• Creating a squad will disrupt your party. Since people can create a squad even without a commander tag, shouldn't it be possible to use the tag without creating a squad?
• You can not 'tag down' as a commander meaning that you will have to leave that squad to get rid of your tag. Please add a "Tag Down" option in the squad UI.

The Mentor Tag

1. The mentor tag is too easy to obtain. You should not be able to call yourself a mentor on the first mastery after using a lvl 80 booster.
2. The mentor tag is free. Making people pay to get a tag will make it more rewarding and will make sure people only obtain the tag if they feel they have a use for it.
3. Replace the "Pact Mentor" with "Pact Coordinator" in the Central Tyria mastery rewards. Replace the mentor tag and give people a more appropriate icon on a free to use tag.
4. Add the Mentor Tag as a purchasable item from the Supply Line Management vendors. Making the Mentor Tag purchasable for an amount of karma (+gold?). Again, this does not have to have a high cost as long as people have to put effort into obtaining the icon.
5. Introduce a "Favor" system!!!
6. Give new players an introduction to the mentor system or at least some more information on it. You could for example add a chat notification, pop-up on interact with a mentor or by right clicking the [Mentor] title in the chat.

The Favor System: Many other games use this to give rewards to players that are actively trying to better/help the community. Players could give a "Thumbs Up" to mentors that are doing a good job. You could even add points for getting a :+1: from a player you have not gotten one from before, that does not :+1: a lot or from a player that is not a (mutual)friend. Introduce a reward track for PvE that people can use while mentoring and give them rewards that are useful in mentoring:

• Account bound Feasts and Thesis'. F2p players can not use the tradingpost to buy consumables. On top of that food is rewarded through level up rewards only at lvl 28!!! (That's a little late don't you think? Since they unlock crafting at lvl 12 already!)
• Supportive aura's that give players boons. You could give aura's that increase downed health, self healing or boon duration. This way a good mentor can be a great feat to killing those pesky bandits.
• Unlock more colors/icons for mentoring. Give mentors the ability to specify their skills and specialize in answering questions about for example Builds, Hardcore Content and/or Lore.
• Give visual rewards for mentors that get high favor such as icons or in game titles. Maybe give mentors a backpiece collection where they can grow a little orchard on their backs ;)

Please let me ask you, developers of Guild Wars 2, what do you expect of the new players that come into this game? GW2 has no tutorial system and the in game hints tho useful at times are very basic. You trust this community to give the right information and guidance to players both in game and on the forum. I think that's great but I would like to see you try a little harder to support the people that do spend their time reaching out to help new players. Please seriously consider implementing these changes.

I am open for constructive criticism in the comments but please be respectful. Not just of me but of the game developers and the community. Thank you.

[Kanok.3027]

I'm not seeing how basically making Mentor tags far more appealing than Commander is going to solve anything. Also, I've seen plenty of people follow mentor tags even with commanders around. Best advice is to be vocal and engage people with events. Don't simply tag up and expect people to come to you. I've even seen some mentors do world boss trains. They aren't as organized, but they try their best.

You want to give all that stuff to a Mentor? Give double that, or simply better effects, to the Commander. Doesn't seem very fair to those that paid all that gold and get nothing like that for their investment.

[Juan.6124]

Doing key runs and completing maps has nothing to do with being a mentor. Tag up as mentor and help people, answer some questions. Be a guide, not a squad leader.

[Westenev.5289]

I think the mentor tag is in a good place - though, not in a mentoring capacity. Instead, it provides players with the ability to indicate an area of the map they are having trouble with - which is handy for people who want to jump in and assist.

[kurumufan.2389]

@Kanok.3027 I don't want to make the mentor tags more appealing than the commander tag. Giving buffs to a mentor tag would come through a favor system. That means that you have to answer questions, assist in events and participate in the community to unlock them. I don't want to replace the commander tag, If anything I want to make it more difficult to use the mentor tag as a replacement commander tag.

@DirtyDan.4759 I do actually do all of that while exploring the map. My expectations are not that by just tagging up I am a proper mentor. I do more than that.

@Westenev.5289 Yes, I agree. The changes I am suggesting are like I said only impactful to an incredibly small amount of players. But unless I speak out about it arenanet will never know if and how many people would like to see these changes. I don't expect them to be implemented but it never hurts to try.

[Chilli.2976]

All that needs to be done is make the mentor tags visible for new players only.

[Holykitten.3064]

@kurumufan.2389 said:@Kanok.3027 I don't want to make the mentor tags more appealing than the commander tag. Giving buffs to a mentor tag would come through a favor system. That means that you have to answer questions, assist in events and participate in the community to unlock them. I don't want to replace the commander tag, If anything I want to make it more difficult to use the mentor tag as a replacement commander tag.

This would make it too open to abuse.Players asking guild members to vote them up, without even doing anything, bribing other players to vote them up etc.So, a big no to the 'favour' system which relies on players voting up other players. The reward of Mentoring, is the Mentoring itself. That's it, if you like Mentoring you shouldn't need an extra reward for it, that's not the idea. You should help players because you like helping them.

@Chilli.2976 said:All that needs to be done is make the mentor tags visible for new players only.

How would you define 'a new player'? Account age? Time played? Max level ever reached?Returning players often need helping too, and a lot of returning players have had their accounts for years.

[Emprer.7256]

I like the favor system

[GreyWolf.8670]

I prefer a tag that you have to at least earn instead of pay cash for. I really don't see the mentor tag as being a problem.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Westenev.5289 said:I think the mentor tag is in a good place - though, not in a mentoring capacity. Instead, it provides players with the ability to indicate an area of the map they are having trouble with - which is handy for people who want to jump in and assist.

I only use mine rarely, and it's usually to point out jumping puzzle spots (especially if someone asks in map chat) or difficult bosses/hero challenges. It's stuff I know lots of other players might need at any given time but don't think to ask.

@"kurumufan.2389" said:

3. You do not need the Joko events to bring veterans to starting zones. If not for the world bosses plenty of people already hang out there for crafting, map completion or out of nostalgia.

I suspect that wasn't done to bring veterans into the starting zones, but to make the current events visible to newer players.

The Mentor Tag

1. The mentor tag is too easy to obtain. You should not be able to call yourself a mentor on the first mastery after using a lvl 80 booster.

Curious then, what would you consider the benchmark for mentor-experience? What programmable measure/achievement? Like, legit curious here. Dungeon Master? Fractal 100? Map completion?Because you're right, it is too easy. I'm just not sure what an appropriate gate would be.

2. The mentor tag is free. Making people pay to get a tag will make it more rewarding and will make sure people only obtain the tag if they feel they have a use for it.

It won't make it more rewarding, just cost more. "Rewarding" comes from what you get, not what you pay.And at that point, just cut the cost of the Commander tag and maybe refund some of the difference to the current commanders. The mentor tag, so far as I can tell, is intended to be a way for knowledgeable members of the community to guide players to interesting/challenging events.

6. Give new players an introduction to the mentor system or at least some more information on it. You could for example add a chat notification, pop-up on interact with a mentor or by right clicking the [Mentor] title in the chat.

:+1: Yes and more yes. GW2 is perpetually bad at conveyance, and in this very nifty tool, it's no different. It just shows up on the mastery track with very little fanfare. No "Thanks for leading our community!" cheer or a blurb on how pivotal the role of mentor could be. But actually using the mentor tag is still pretty opaque. I know I can/should use it to guide events or draw attention to something cool, but I was given no primer in-game about it.

The Favor System: Many other games use this to give rewards to players that are actively trying to better/help the community. Players could give a "Thumbs Up" to mentors that are doing a good job. You could even add points for getting a :+1: from a player you have not gotten one from before, that does not :+1: a lot or from a player that is not a (mutual)friend. Introduce a reward track for PvE that people can use while mentoring and give them rewards that are useful in mentoring:

Recommendations and recognition, yes. Rewards, no.Especially since we know it'll get gamed, and the most successful mentors will be Mesmers. Let the Mentor tag be one of actual altruism, not another way to farm loot.

[Menadena.7482]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:The reward of Mentoring, is the Mentoring itself. That's it, if you like Mentoring you shouldn't need an extra reward for it, that's not the idea. You should help players because you like helping them.

Got it in one!

Does anyone else here remember the second life mentors? I used to be one and then the company decided to replace us with signs directing new users to the help portal. The day they did that our group chat was almost like being at a funereal.

There are some people with a mentor tag who just view it as a cheap commander tag and use it to show off. There are others that use it out of genuinely wanting to help though. I fall into the 'I do not need rewards, just give me the tools I need' camp. Yes, a little recognition is always nice in any pursuit but there is the danger that it can be abused as well so anything along that line would need to be looked at in that light.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

Just commenting on the first part of the post: On days when daily events are in a beginner map, the Palawa Joko events are a godsend. Yes, there are lots of events on beginner maps, but they are beginner events that end quickly and with very little effort, without many people having the opportunity to take part. Anyone who plays daily events has felt the pain of following an escort for five minutes and never managing to tag even one of the baddies because 89 people with hair-trigger longbows are demolishing them before you get close enough to whack them with your hammer.

The Joko events not only provide relief for high-level players trying to do their dailies, but they siphon away some of those crowds so that more beginner events are left available to the actual beginners.

Re tags, I have been in situations where I tag up just because there is nobody else who is willing, or possibly because nobody nearby has or is willing to use a mentor tag. I am against making them harder to get. Tags are not supposed to be a status symbol, they are a tool to help people get organized and find events. Making them harder to get means making it harder for groups to organize.

[Menadena.7482]

I wish they would just put a dot on the map for everyone, which I have seen done elsewhere. This would accomplish two things.

Tags would be less a status symbol since everyone would have a marker.

Trying to find an event? Just look at the map for where you see a bunch of dots in the same place that is not a town or such.

[Glacial.9516]

I think the Mentor tag is fine, though it could use a name change. It's a good idea to allow players with any range of experience to throw up a marker saying "Here I am, please come help" or "The event I just announced in map chat is on my tag." Perhaps there should be a separate mentor system to actually help players and answer questions but I don't know how that would work. Nor would I want to see it have any tangible rewards. The last thing we need is people competing to 'mentor' new players for the rewards.

[Kanok.3027]

Plenty of comments supporting what I said. Just help. Yeah, I have a commander tag and the funny part is, when I tag up to gather people for something or to do my world boss runs, I never ask for donations or anything. I do it to gather people to help one another or to get people to gather up for events on low level maps, for bosses, etc. Mentor tag does the exact same thing. Added benefit of Commander tag is different colors and squad-specific tools and group management. Before I got my Comm tag, I would use the Mentor tag to gather people for bosses and events, same as I do now. Nothing has changed.

Not sure why you want to bring extra rewards to the tag and yes, those extra rewards would make the Commander tag less appealing because people would want that more often than a Commander tag. Oh and yeah, I didn't even mention the abuse a Favor system would bring. Thanks to @Haleydawn.3764 for bringing that up.

I'm not trying to say your suggestion sucks or anything. I'm trying to say that the current system works. If there was other suggestions that would make the Mentor tag better, those would probably be better for discussion. This seems like handing Mentors far more than what Comms get, which is a bit unfair. Like I said, if you're gonna do that, then have the Comms get something too.

[kurumufan.2389]

@Rauderi.8706 I would suggest unlocking them for an amount of karma. Karma is earned only by playing, you get it rewarded on pretty much any and every open world activity. So anyone that reaches a certain amount would spend no valuable currency on them. On top of that by making them available through the Pact Supply Line you would still require people to get more masteries in the Pact Commander mastery line to unlock them. That way you can still feel rewarded for getting them through masteries. Also thank you very much for your positive comment :smile: that means a lot to me.

@Chilli.2976 I am suggesting that people mentor in more places than just the starting zones. There are plenty of people that use mesmer portals to help players with their dailies. Those people should still be able to use the mentor tag in those situations.

@Haleydawn.3764 That is why I suggest rewards are account bound. That way they can not be sold for profit. I would suggest giving players aoe boons that would be helpful in open world events. For example, by giving players more downed health (which is a buff already available through food) you can give new players that down easily a better chance of getting rezzed. However you don't buff anyone's outgoing damage or anything like that so the boss will still die at the same rate.

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" I am not suggesting they remove the events, simply that they move them over to other maps. That means that for example instead of having "Daily Queensdale Event Completer" you would make "Daily Gandaran Fields Event Completer" easier.

@Menadena.7482 Thank you for your example. Yes many other games have or used to have a similar system in place. So it would not be groundbreaking to have one in GW2. The devs could simply take inspiration from those kinds of games.

[kurumufan.2389]

@Kanok.3027 A commander tag has it's own benefits. You get a bigger party size, are able to split parties into groups, put down icons, put icons on players, add a squad message for people that enter the party and much more... Saying that 'buffing' the mentor tag would make the commander tag obsolete is nonsense. You will always need a commander for TT, WvW and Raids so they will always have a place in this game. The only thing I suggest they add to the mentor tag is a reward system that would use favor. If I felt like rewards were the bottom line of mentoring don't you think I would have quit doing it somewhere in the past 2 years? I will always keep mentoring, rewards or no rewards. But that does not mean that others will. I just think that if a person spends hours opening portals for players doing their dailies they should be rewarded for that.

[Menadena.7482]

@kurumufan.2389 Yes, we already have dots for our guild, party, and I think squad. All they would need is a dot (white maybe?) for everyone else on your shard.

[Ashen.2907]

@kurumufan.2389 said:@Kanok.3027 A commander tag has it's own benefits. You get a bigger party size, are able to split parties into groups, put down icons, put icons on players, add a squad message for people that enter the party and much more... Saying that 'buffing' the mentor tag would make the commander tag obsolete is nonsense. You will always need a commander for TT, WvW and Raids so they will always have a place in this game. The only thing I suggest they add to the mentor tag is a reward system that would use favor. If I felt like rewards were the bottom line of mentoring don't you think I would have quit doing it somewhere in the past 2 years? I will always keep mentoring, rewards or no rewards. But that does not mean that others will. I just think that if a person spends hours opening portals for players doing their dailies they should be rewarded for that.

The option to be be rewarded for opening portals already exists. Thanks and, perhaps, tips from the people who benefit from the portal.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Never been a friend of locking stuff away from people that is required for basic communication and organization. The old commander tag was nothing more than a proof that someone earned some gold. The mastery system is slightly better but still requires a person to reach 80, get an expansion, gather experience and obtain some mastery points. None of these tasks make you a good leader or teacher. Those who want to tag up should have the option to tag up. Hiding tags behind walls of gold or any achievements/masteries is no guarantee for a good or experienced leader. Basic tags for everyone, fancy ones for people with money. If you want to give buffs to your people, get some banners and food-trays.

[kurumufan.2389]

@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" There could posibly be a "target" tag instead of the mentor tag that would just be a small target icon on the map for example. However if you really want to organise events such as TD meta you should be motivated to get a commander tag. It's not just a sign of players having a ton of money.

[Biff.5312]

I disagree with all your points re: Joko invasion. I see no problems with the way they are now. They also provide a fun glimpse into the bigger picture for new players, who may happen across them.

Nothing to say about mentor tags as I'm not one.

[Ellegon Mcleod.5931]

Love the ability to mentor up when showing people where something is happening. That is the only time I really use it. If people need advise or help I will either whisper them advice or group up so as not to disturb the whole map. I feel it is in the right place for what is needed and might just need a name change as not really about mentoring in my view.

[Deepcuts.9740]

I recall too many times some players just mentoring up and starting asking for help in the most noobish way possible, proving they are in no way, shape or form a mentor.To be a mentor should be a great honor and responsibility. Not just a tag to ask for help, as 99% of players do.The name "Mentor" lost all meaning in Guild Wars 2. At least for me.

My take on this: disable the mentor tag completely map wide. Keep it for party members.Want to help people? Maybe new or returning players? Advertise your party on lfg or /m

[killermanjaro.5670]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

This would make it too open to abuse.Players asking guild members to vote them up, without even doing anything, bribing other players to vote them up etc.So, a big no to the 'favour' system which relies on players voting up other players. The reward of Mentoring, is the Mentoring itself. That's it, if you like Mentoring you shouldn't need an extra reward for it, that's not the idea. You should help players because you like helping them.

Couldn't agree more with this, a favour/rep system would just be an awful thing to have. It would just result in the LFG being full of 'join my squad & help boost my rep', 'vote me up plz' or 'wtb favour will pay x g', as well as map chat being spammed with the same. If there's any sort of extra rewards/favour/recognition system them then all it will achieve is a load of ego focused people tagging up to try and get their rating up for no real reason. Tagging up to help players is great, but it should only be done if someone genuinely enjoys helping people, that's the reward, a system that encourages people to tag up to boost a rep rank or for rewards would mean more people tagging up for the wrong reasons.